What if ...

[vmsbass]

... when wiping in a dungeon, it automatically reset, so you couldn't just run back and pick up where you left off? Or perhaps even better, that even just a player would be denied to reenter a dungeon after dying, even if his party members stayed alive? How would that work,hypothetically speaking?

[Impaqt]

Why?

It would be a terrible idea.

[GlassCannon]

... when wiping in a dungeon, it automatically reset, so you couldn't just run back and pick up where you left off? Or perhaps even better, that even just a player would be denied to reenter a dungeon after dying, even if his party members stayed alive? How would that work,hypothetically speaking?

What if your character was automatically deleted on death?

Go play permadeath. From the way you present this, it's about time you did. You'd love it.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I'm with Glass, go play PD... It's annoying enough in the select quests that do this to you now.

[vmsbass]

Why would it be a terrible idea? Don't take it so serious; just discuss it a little.

[branmakmuffin]

Why would it be a terrible idea? Don't take it so serious; just discuss it a little.
Some people here find it hard to say anything about an idea they don't like, other than "What a terrible idea! I don't like it!"

It would make completing hard quests even more challenging. Whether that's terrible, I don't know. Some would think that's wonderful.

[Qzipoun]

It would make completing hard quests even more challenging. Whether that's terrible, I don't know. Some would think that's wonderful.

Those who think it's wonderful (Permadeathers) can already freely reset the instance once they wipe. Why would you force other players to abide by these rules?

[Ustice]

I would like to see a "Reset Quest" button. It would take care of the drop-group-and-reform issue. When everyone is out of the quest, there could be a button on the quest entrance panel that says, "This quest is currently active. [Enter] [Reset Quest]." When you click on the Reset Quest button, the instance is instantly deleted, and the players are able to enter the quest anew. Not only would this take care of what the OP wants to do, but also make things easier for when a party needs to start again in a new instance, as well as for when you are soloing.

[Impaqt]

Why would it be a terrible idea? Don't take it so serious; just discuss it a little.

Since you didnt feel the need to Describe why you wanted the change, I felt it was unnecessary for me to describe why I wouldnt like it.

[branmakmuffin]

Those who think it's wonderful (Permadeathers) can already freely reset the instance once they wipe. Why would you force other players to abide by these rules?
No one's forcing you to do anything, not even discuss the notion logically.

If that's the way the game worked, that'd be the way it worked and if someone were now saying "Hey, how come the instance doesn't stay open for, say, 5 minutes, to allow parties to go back in and not have to re-start from the beginning?" you'd be saying "That'd make things way too easy. What a terrible idea!"

[MissErres]

No one's forcing you to do anything, not even discuss the notion logically.

If that's the way the game worked, that'd be the way it worked and if someone were now saying "Hey, how come the instance doesn't stay open for, say, 5 minutes, to allow parties to go back in and not have to re-start from the beginning?" you'd be saying "That'd make things way too easy. What a terrible idea!"

Ummm... that's the way it used to be... Which is why some are still in the habit of leaving one person in on a party wipe, to hold the instance open.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Why would it be a terrible idea? Don't take it so serious; just discuss it a little.

Well you didn't give any reasons why its a good idea.

But I'll give you one why its a bad idea... some of us play this GAME to have FUN and not be frustrated because somoene does something silly that results in a wipe. As it is, no biggie, you can recover. Why take away that recovery option?

You want hard core, fine, its easy enough to wait 5 or take 60 seconds to break and reform.

[branmakmuffin]

Ummm... that's the way it used to be... Which is why some are still in the habit of leaving one person in on a party wipe, to hold the instance open.
No, people do that to make sure the 5 minutes doesn't run out.

Ummmmmmmmm.

[MissErres]

No, people do that to make sure the 5 minutes doesn't run out.

Ummmmmmmmm.

NO... the instances used to reset once everyone was out of them. Believe that was chaged in ... mod 5??

[vmsbass]

I asked the question because I wanted to get some feedback on what others thought of how fair the difficulty of dungeons are. I am starting to get the impression that many dungeons are designed with the assumption that some, or even many deaths and reentries will be necessary to complete the given dungeon (at least without a good deal of prior experience and proper preparation). I have only been playing for about three weeks now, and I do enjoy the game. However, it is starting to seem like no matter what I, or even a party does, regular deaths are necessary to advance through most dungeons. And the fact that so many people think it would be too hard/frustrating if the game were as I mentioned in the original post leads me to conclude I am not alone in my experiences. Again, I enjoy the game, but this seems like a terrible design flaw. Rather than properly balance the dungeons, the devs seem to have just taken the easy road by resting on the knowledge that players could always just keep dying and returning until the dungeon is complete, no matter how unfair things might be. Oh well. It's fun anyway, but it does seem a bit lame (this does assume that one wants something of a challenge, and does not want to trivialize things by doing quests many level below you, or do 'Normal' level quests with like six people).

[branmakmuffin]

NO... the instances used to reset once everyone was out of them. Believe that was chaged in ... mod 5??
People leave a non-caster (usually) inside to make sure everyone else has enough time to go to the tavern and do whatever other misc. hocus pocus they want/need to do without having to worry about the 5 minute limit, regardless of whatever you claim used to be the case (I can't recall).

You forgot your condescending "ummmmmm," but you made up for it with that all-caps "NO." Very nice.


I enjoy the game, but this seems like a terrible design flaw. Rather than properly balance the dungeons, the devs seem to have just taken the easy road by resting on the knowledge that players could always just keep dying and returning until the dungeon is complete, no matter how unfair things might be.
Well, the game is primarily a video game, not a role-playing game. You and I don't have to like it, but if we want to play it, we have to live with it, eh?

[MissErres]

People leave a non-caster (usually) inside to make sure everyone else has enough time to go to the tavern and do whatever other misc. hocus pocus they want/need to do without having to worry about the 5 minute limit, regardless of whatever you claim used to be the case (I can't recall).

You forgot your condescending "ummmmmm," but you made up for it with that all-caps "NO." Very nice.

well then... ummm.....

if you'll look back to your original post that i quoted, you were referring to the instance resetting automatically and ppl b*tching about it. i was just pointing out that that is the way it used to be and it was changed. obviously you don't like anyone to point out when you are wrong or might have conflicting opinions or facts.

we get it, you are an avid rp'er and love your play style. you have a certin way you like to play. we don't have a problem with that. we are simply pointing out issues with your proposal and why some of us don't think it's a good idea. we also don't want your choice of play style imposed on the rest of us that are here simply to enjoy the game.

[branmakmuffin]

we are simply pointing out issues with your proposal and why some of us don't think it's a good idea. we also don't want your choice of play style imposed on the rest of us that are here simply to enjoy the game.
Talk about not paying attention: this is not my proposal.

Double "ummmmm."

[MissErres]

Talk about not paying attention: this is not my proposal.

Double "ummmmm."

I apologize. My bad.

I got this thread confused the other one where you're not making any sense either.

[branmakmuffin]

I apologize. My bad.

I got this thread confused the other one where you're not making any sense either.
Hmm, I make sense everywhere. Ergo, you are confused.

It's an easy mistake to make.

[Arlith]

... when wiping in a dungeon, it automatically reset, so you couldn't just run back and pick up where you left off?

It would make solo play much more difficult. It caters to power gamers, players who are members of well equipped guilds, or those who buy equip/plat. The casual gamer who is not uberly equipped would suffer. The point of the game is to keep all different types of players paying their monthly dues. if this is the way you wish to play, find like minded players and play exactly like that. This way you get what you want, others get what they want, and everyone pays their 15.00 (+/-).


Or perhaps even better, that even just a player would be denied to reenter a dungeon after dying, even if his party members stayed alive? How would that work,hypothetically speaking?

Absolutely not. Then you have the potential for abuse. A guild group needs a pug or two, or three, for a raid. In the last fight, when they are sure they can handle it on their own, a few well missed heals and presto it is a guild run again. And yeah, it would get abused. Similar abuses have occurred in the past that required game mechanics to be changed.

I understand your point and applaud your wish to play that way. I view things differently. If I am in a quest and I get my azz kicked, I want back in for payback. Once, twice, ten times, I WILL get it done.

Personally I would not mind the XP hit on death rearing its ugly head again. But that's my opinion, and a minority one at that. So I will live with things as they are.

The nice thing about this game is you can make it as challenging as you want. You can play PD, or use rules such as you appear to advocate, or limit equipment or resources. All it takes is 5 or 11 other like minded players and some will power. And while you are doing that, others can play as they wish.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I asked the question because I wanted to get some feedback on what others thought of how fair the difficulty of dungeons are. I am starting to get the impression that many dungeons are designed with the assumption that some, or even many deaths and reentries will be necessary to complete the given dungeon (at least without a good deal of prior experience and proper preparation). I have only been playing for about three weeks now, and I do enjoy the game. However, it is starting to seem like no matter what I, or even a party does, regular deaths are necessary to advance through most dungeons. And the fact that so many people think it would be too hard/frustrating if the game were as I mentioned in the original post leads me to conclude I am not alone in my experiences. Again, I enjoy the game, but this seems like a terrible design flaw. Rather than properly balance the dungeons, the devs seem to have just taken the easy road by resting on the knowledge that players could always just keep dying and returning until the dungeon is complete, no matter how unfair things might be. Oh well. It's fun anyway, but it does seem a bit lame (this does assume that one wants something of a challenge, and does not want to trivialize things by doing quests many level below you, or do 'Normal' level quests with like six people).

Ah, didn't realize you were new....

Yes, the path most ppl take in dungeons does require deaths because they tend to power through for speed and ignore strategy.

There are several PermaDeath guilds that delete chars if they die. They can and do move through dungeons without dying, it just takes more strategy.