Who here agrees with me that some races should be exluded from some classes, like...

[RedeemerRed]

Warforges and Bard/Monk/Rogue/Wizard/Sorceror,
or Haflings and Barbarian/Paladin (well, maybe not, maybe so),
or Dwarves and Ranger(possibly)/Wizard (maybe a Sorceror)?

I personally think that some classes should be exempt from being played by certain races, and I personally think that if that was the case the game would be more realistic.

BTW, I do not play PnP (though I've wanted to try it multiple times), and if DDO is the same with PnP about this, then I wouldn't want them to change it, but I think it'd be more realistic.

Disagree? Agree?
Comments?

Thanks!

[Rav'n]

I agree.... Not every Race should have access to Every Class. Where the Line should be drawn... no time to discuss right now. Just wanted to say... "I agree"

[Mhykke]

You're going to get a whole lot of disagrees.

People like options and the ability to customize.

[Impaqt]

First "Realism" arguments ALWAYS fail when talking about Fantasy RPG's. THere is no such thing.

Second, I fail to see any logic behind why you thnk these races whoudl be excluded.

Warforged are Magical Creations. WHy should they be excluded from Being able to use Magic?

Halflings Cant be Lawful? Or Barbarians?

I dont understand

[dragonoffrost]

One problem with his request is Halflings in this setting are actually a nomadic race ... kinda screams barbarian to some....

[Bladededge123]

Same debate was leveled when 3rd edition opened things up for 2nd edition. The only reason it was done in 2nd edition is because it was balancing. Certain races could only be certain classes/reach certain levels because they got lots of bonuses. Humans got the bonus of being able to get to 20th level in any class. So, at lower levels, no reason not to play a non-human race..and at higher levels, no reason not to play a human.

Limited classes to only race x y and z is a bad idea. Limiting playing options based purely on fluff reasoning is bad. This is a game. Theme is great, but should molded to fit the gameplay, not the other way round. It was a bad idea in 2nd edition, thank god they fixxed it in 3rd.

If you don't think race x should be class x y and z, then form a guild along such lines of thinking and play that way. There is absolutely no reason what one person thinks would be more proper and realistic should be forced on me. Think and do what you like, but one persons opinion doesn't over-write anothers..and shouldn't be upheld as fact.

[EinarMal]

I think Dwarfs should only be allowed to play halflings

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You are welcome to go write your own game system.

Here we play (more or less) 3.5 edition D&D.

[Arianrhod]

/disagree

There are plenty of games that have such restrictions, it's nice to have one that doesn't.

Also, if running your own D&D campaign at home, you're free to add whatever restrictions work for you. This "campaign" happens to be set in Eberron, which is very liberal about restrictions on who can do what (even going beyond the "standards" in the D&D 3.5 rules). Adding such restrictions might make sense in some campaigns/settings, but wouldn't be logical in Eberron.

[xanvar]

/disagree.... Not sure if your argument is that you think certain races could not realistically play a certain class or if you think some races make poor choices for classes. Either way whole heartedly disagree.

[Selinius]

As someone with both a halfling pally and barb, I find your idea both insulting and narrowminded. Halflings are great pallys. Smite evil takes on a whole new meaning when you can spay/neuter your enemies. Halfling barbs, yeah, just evil. A ****ed off person with a big axe or 2 khopehses swinging hard enough to fell trees running around at belt high on a human. No wonder they get big numbers on their crits. As for the other race/class combos you mentioned, that would be like saying because you have blond hair your int can't be higher than 8. No logical reasoning to it.

[MrCow]

Putting in a rule like that would technically kill all but one of my characters. I only have one character who has neither sorcerer, wizard, bard, rogue, or monk in them (15 cleric/1 paladin). Being I only play Warforged you would pretty much be locking me into fighter, barbarian, paladin, cleric, or ranger. Sorry, but I'd prefer the whole spectrum of classes available to me, not half of them.

Besides, even the Eberron source books explain how some of these race/class combinations make sense.

[Qzipoun]

I think Dwarfs should only be allowed to play halflings

I disagree with you. In my opinion we should stop all races from splashing Dwarf. The hitpoint boost is too overpowering.

[Riddikulus]

Yes make restrictions... the game will be more like WoW then. Everyone wants this game to become exactly like WoW. ;)

Yeah just like WoW where (on the alliance side) all hunters are Dwarves, all Druids are Night Elves, and all Shamans are Draenal. Want to play a human hunter (ranger)? Nope, sorry, reserved for Dwarves only.

Yeah, we need that.

Not.

[baddax]

What happened to the good old days when the Argument was to Stay pure classed or go multi-class? How the mutliclass was worthless? Oh the times, they are a changing!

[Borror0]

Never met someone who didn't fit in a stereotype?

[Strakeln]

Oh! They should make a special server for this!

...or maybe, if you want to impose new rules, you should impose them on yourself and not the rest of the world.

[GeneralDiomedes]

They should make a special forum called

Ridiculous Suggestions - Post your ideas that will never get implemented!

[Hvymetal]

Oh! They should make a special server for this!

...or maybe, if you want to impose new rules, you should impose them on yourself and not the rest of the world.

Agreed 100%

Much like PD I think it would be splendid if you wish to restrict yourself from creating certain class/race combinations you leave the rest of us that prefer to more or less follow the 3.5 ruleset be allowed to do so. Thank you.

[Uska]

NO they arent restrictied in the real game so no. Realistic is never a good arguement where people can through magic around

[Ghoste]

Realistic?

Give us an example of how certain races in the real world are incapable of performing certain jobs. And let's see if you can manage that without getting banned.

As far as in a game:
How do any of those restrictions you have posed make ANY sense at all? The correlation I'm seeing is basically something like this: "Hmmm, that race can't get the absolute max number in that class' main stat, so since they aren't perfect at it they should be banned altogether from it."

If we follow this kind of broken logic to its conclusion, we come to a point where we must demand that Turbine not allow any customization of characters whatsoever and build our characters for us and...wait a second, are you a World of Warcraft player by any chance??? Because if you are, this would make a whole lot of sense now...

[twix]

From a realistic point of view i disagree.When im walking around in rl swinging my great axe around and shooting fireballs I would have been ****ed to find out I rolled the wrong race..

[baddax]

Realistic?

Give us an example of how certain races in the real world are incapable of performing certain jobs. And let's see if you can manage that without getting banned.

As far as in a game:
How do any of those restrictions you have posed make ANY sense at all? The correlation I'm seeing is basically something like this: "Hmmm, that race can't get the absolute max number in that class' main stat, so since they aren't perfect at it they should be banned altogether from it."

If we follow this kind of broken logic to its conclusion, we come to a point where we must demand that Turbine not allow any customization of characters whatsoever and build our characters for us and...wait a second, are you a World of Warcraft player by any chance??? Because if you are, this would make a whole lot of sense now...

Just had a great idea for a build! 32 point Drow 10 rogue 6 fighter-intimitank. I'll call him Blood and all he'll wear is red!!!!!!

[Bunker]

Dwarf Wizard
WF Sorcerer
Elf Ranging Bard
Halfling 2 Handed Fighter
Halfling 2 Weapon Barbarian
Drow Paladin
and a variety of Humans

These are just the class and race that I have choosen to play. And anyone that says there should be restrictions on races for what class they play are just ignorant. All races have the same ability and capability to play any class. Not to mention that choices like this are what makes ddo great.

[moorewr]

I think every Drow should be required to be named Drizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.


More seriously,
In Eberron a halfling barbarian makes perfect sense. WF are not class limited as far as I know, although NPC WF are generally going to be fighters or barbs of some stripe. I think.

I wish the 'no more progression' rule existed for paladins who multi-class. Other than that, things are OK as is.

[Riddikulus]

I wish the 'no more progression' rule existed for paladins who multi-class. Other than that, things are OK as is.
What difference would that make?

With most multiclasses you get your 2 (aura) or 3 (fear immunity) levels of pally and never go back. Adding restrictions to that will serve no real purpose other than to be annoying.

The only rule I'd like implemented related to this is ECL along with de-neutering of the Drow. This would pave the way for implementing player monster races as well.

[Aesop]

/disagree ...completely

[valczir]

First "Realism" arguments ALWAYS fail when talking about Fantasy RPG's. THere is no such thing.

Wrong. They fail because people have different definitions of "realism". When people argue for "realism", they're really arguing for believability. They don't want the game to be like real life as it is, they want it to be believable within the context of the world that the game is set in.


Anyway, no, I don't think there should be restrictions. If a dwarf wants to be a wizard or a sorcerer, it's a possible path to take. It may not be approved of - the dwarf may even end up getting kicked out of the clan - but it's still a possible path to take.

The same goes for any other race. A warforged can decide that he's sick and tired of killing everyone and everything and decide to become a cleric or a thief-type rogue (one who steals instead of killing). He may have a difficult time getting used to the skills required by a thief, but there's nothing that says he can't become one.


If this were the Forgotten Realms, I would say that Drow should not be allowed to be Good, but this is Eberron. The way Eberron is, the Drow have a lot more contact with the other races (although it's still relatively limited), meaning that a truly Good Drow is not beyond the realm of possibility. (Drizzt doesn't exist)

[Ghoste]

A warforged can decide that he's sick and tired of killing everyone and everything and decide to become a cleric or a thief-type rogue (one who steals instead of killing). He may have a difficult time getting used to the skills required by a thief, but there's nothing that says he can't become one.
(Drizzt doesn't exist)
A cleric "sick and tired of killing everyone?" You don't know about the godforged apparently. Their whole faith is based around killing everyone. Lol.

[Bremman]

Yes make restrictions... the game will be more like WoW then. Everyone wants this game to become exactly like WoW. ;)

Yeah just like WoW where (on the alliance side) all hunters are Dwarves, all Druids are Night Elves, and all Shamans are Draenal. Want to play a human hunter (ranger)? Nope, sorry, reserved for Dwarves only.

Yeah, we need that.

Not.

I agree with this 100%. One of the reasons I went to this game (from WoW) was due to the lack of restrictions. I love how WoW advertised "you can be anyone you want" but stopped me from making a gun toting gnome hunter with a pet that's bigger than he is. I've only been playing a short while but I've already fallen in love. I love this game for NOT being like other MMOs, it allows the player more freedom to do as he/she pleases, plus the community is great and VERY receptive of newbies. Reading this makes me want to go spite WoW by making that elf paladin I always wanted. If you want restrictions, go to WoW. This is D&D, been around since the beginning of time, it's always been this way, good luck trying to change the world.

[sigtrent]

/disagree

I never liked silly race/class restrictions. Not only does it smack of a certain kind of racism sometimes found in the real world, it must makes characters less individualistic and interesting.

I think it is quite sufficient that some race/class combinations are natrualy synergistic.

[Borror0]

I never liked silly race/class restrictions. Not only does it smack of a certain kind of racism sometimes found in the real world, it must makes characters less individualistic and interesting.

For some, (Presitge) class it does make sense... I mean Dwarven Defender.

[baddax]

Just had a great idea for a build! 32 point Drow 10 rogue 6 fighter-intimitank. I'll call him Blood and all he'll wear is red!!!!!!

and ill create a new guild and call them the bloods!

[Inspire]

NPC WF are generally going to be fighters or barbs of some stripe. I think.

You've Obviously Never Run Von 4... Heh.

[Ghoste]

I think every Drow should be required to be named Drizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.


More seriously,
In Eberron a halfling barbarian makes perfect sense. WF are not class limited as far as I know, although NPC WF are generally going to be fighters or barbs of some stripe. I think.

I wish the 'no more progression' rule existed for paladins who multi-class. Other than that, things are OK as is.
Responding to the part in red.

In Eberron, most warforged NPCs no longer serve in militaries. The vast majority are laborers in towns and cities. A small but growing number follow the Lord of Blades serving in a variety of classes which definitely include the arcane classes. There are also groups of clerics and paladins (keeping in mind wf paladins in PnP get substitution levels) as well as druids. To the best of my knowledge though, none of the nations of Khorvaire have warforged serving in their military anymore. Some of the official adventure material contain warforged NPCs of various classes.

Any warforged created before the end of the War, who was around long enough to undergo the training/indoctrination of House Cannith would likely at least have one level of fighter, barbarian, ranger, or artificer depending on what role the were meant to server and what model they were. Keep in mind though that despite the Treaty of Thronehold multiple creation forges continue to operate in as much secrecy as can be managed.

[Atax]

Dwarfs shouldnt be allowed to be rangers because two dwarven axes is too good

Warforged shouldnt be allowed to be arcane casters cause they're too good

this game is unfair, please fix

/sarcasm

[Uska]

For some, (Presitge) class it does make sense... I mean Dwarven Defender.

yes prestige class but not base classes

[tenga]

/disagree with the OP.

the way that ddo compensates with races not supposing to be certain classes is race base stats. is halflings having less str, wf having less cha. dwarfs having more str.

[Hvymetal]

/disagree with the OP.

the way that ddo compensates with races not supposing to be certain classes is race base stats. is halflings having less str, wf having less cha. dwarfs having more str. Only people Dwarves have more STR than is Halflings ;)

[Sandmek]

/ so not sign, someone just HAD to start ssomething like this,

*muttering* racis biggot


So i cant spell Baahh

[BlackSteel]

/not signed

no race should be restricted

altho i do feel that dwarves should be renamed fat halflings, and be given halfling enhancements. Just stick em with -2 dex for being such butterballs.

nerf dwarves

[adamkatt]

Warforges and Bard/Monk/Rogue/Wizard/Sorceror,
or Haflings and Barbarian/Paladin (well, maybe not, maybe so),
or Dwarves and Ranger(possibly)/Wizard (maybe a Sorceror)?

I personally think that some classes should be exempt from being played by certain races, and I personally think that if that was the case the game would be more realistic.

BTW, I do not play PnP (though I've wanted to try it multiple times), and if DDO is the same with PnP about this, then I wouldn't want them to change it, but I think it'd be more realistic.

Disagree? Agree?
Comments?

Thanks!


Whatever your on please pass it around to the whole table!

[Hvymetal]

i do feel that dwarves should be renamed fat halflings


/Signed :D

[Spell]

Totally disagree with OP.
It's that kind of restrictions that made "WOW" sooooo boring to me.

[arcticwolf666]

Warforges and Bard/Monk/Rogue/Wizard/Sorceror,
or Haflings and Barbarian/Paladin (well, maybe not, maybe so),
or Dwarves and Ranger(possibly)/Wizard (maybe a Sorceror)?

I personally think that some classes should be exempt from being played by certain races, and I personally think that if that was the case the game would be more realistic.

BTW, I do not play PnP (though I've wanted to try it multiple times), and if DDO is the same with PnP about this, then I wouldn't want them to change it, but I think it'd be more realistic.

Disagree? Agree?
Comments?

Thanks!


Just out of curiosity, are you wanting to ban certain classes to specific races? Do you assign jobs to at work to people of certain race because you think other races can't cut it? If you apply realism, apply it everywhere. I believe that everything should be buildable by whomever wants to. IT IS A GAME......


COMPLETELY /DISAGREE

[baylensman]

Dwarves shouldn't be cowboys.
War Forged shouldn't be fairys.

Clerics shouldn't be aethiests

Other than those three let it alone. Be what you want. Just remember Warfroged are so darn pretty!!

[llevenbaxx]

OP suggestion is sooo AD&D(?):)

Lets leave it there, huh?

[Dimicron]

Warforges and Bard/Monk/Rogue/Wizard/Sorceror,
or Haflings and Barbarian/Paladin (well, maybe not, maybe so),
or Dwarves and Ranger(possibly)/Wizard (maybe a Sorceror)?

I personally think that some classes should be exempt from being played by certain races, and I personally think that if that was the case the game would be more realistic.

BTW, I do not play PnP (though I've wanted to try it multiple times), and if DDO is the same with PnP about this, then I wouldn't want them to change it, but I think it'd be more realistic.

Disagree? Agree?
Comments?

Thanks!

I didn't read through this entire thread, but... someone didn't read the Eberron Campaign Setting hardcover supplement for PnP, that's all I'm saying :)

(Halflings are the majority of barbarians in Eberron, though in PnP they also have pet dinosaurs!)

[Raelg14]

I think Dwarfs should only be allowed to play halflings

I am gonna have to agree here, if you have ever heard a Master Dwarf Bard play 'O sole mio' on a halfling, you life will never be the same
;)

[cyadra]

Go back to the old days...

Pallys should only be human

and have a CH score of over 17 at creation.

Try playing that on a 28 point build.

[Silou]

Woah.. a simple "I disagree and here's why" would suffice. I don't think all the OP bashing was neccessary. He DID say he's never played PnP so his only experience of Roleplaying is likely MMO's. His suggestion, while not logical in the 3.5 edition of the Eberron Campaign setting that DDO is set in, has some merit none-the-less. If DDo were a 2.0 Krynn setting then these kinds of restrictions would be in place already. Thank god it's not because I fully agree that any race can be and can excell in any class if you've got the right build and play-style. But let's take a look back at the roots of D&D.. back when there was only BD&D and AD&D. There were only 4 races available, Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling. Elves, Dwarves and Halflings did not have the right to choose their class. In fact their class WAS their race all roled up into one. Gnomes eventually came out but were illusionists only. Humans could pick between fighter, cleric, thief, and mage. Now D&D is the grand-daddy of all role playing games, and D&D got it's inspiration and start from the Lord of the Rings series by J.R.R. Tolkien which is the grand-daddy of all fantasy genre literature. Everything we know about fantasy RPGs and literature originates from these two sources. Therefore it easy to fall into the old-school stereotypes about dwarves only being melee and elves only being spell-swords.

What I'm trying to say here is that, no I don't think there should be any restrictions on race/class selection. But it's not neccessary to get so upset about someone suggesting it. We all know that it would never happen, no sence in trolling someone for thinking in the way the great minds of the fantasy genre once did though.

[Gunga]

I think you're 100% right: Halflings should only be around to clean up after my dwarf. No to everything else you said, though.

[Phidius]

Woah.. a simple "I disagree and here's why" would suffice. I don't think all the OP bashing was neccessary. He DID say he's never played PnP so his only experience of Roleplaying is likely MMO's.

<snip>

What I'm trying to say here is that, no I don't think there should be any restrictions on race/class selection. But it's not neccessary to get so upset about someone suggesting it. We all know that it would never happen, no sence in trolling someone for thinking in the way the great minds of the fantasy genre once did though.

Agreed. I don't like the idea of restricting classes based on race, but the OP doesn't deserve the flaming.

[DoctorWhofan]

Warforges and Bard/Monk/Rogue/Wizard/Sorceror,
or Haflings and Barbarian/Paladin (well, maybe not, maybe so),
or Dwarves and Ranger(possibly)/Wizard (maybe a Sorceror)?

I personally think that some classes should be exempt from being played by certain races, and I personally think that if that was the case the game would be more realistic.

BTW, I do not play PnP (though I've wanted to try it multiple times), and if DDO is the same with PnP about this, then I wouldn't want them to change it, but I think it'd be more realistic.

Disagree? Agree?
Comments?

Thanks!


In PnP before 3.0, I remember the elves could not play a pallys. I always thought, "That's not fair, there can be exceptions. And how about their own relegions? THey can't have Pallys?" Then Player's Options came out that kinda gave you the freedom to do so, then 3.0-3.5. There are always exceptionsto every rule, just ask Driz'zit.


Besides, WF as clerics...what? But I have one and to give him up doesn't make sense.

[Grimdiegn]

/not signed

Less options are bad IMO and there is really no reason to restrict it.

As for the halfling barbarian mentioned above. I'm not playing playing a halfling character until/if they add mounts and I can have him ride a Carver (Raptor like dinosaur).

[Randolf_Drake]

You are welcome to go write your own game system.

Here we play (more or less) 3.5 edition D&D.

Less ;)

[Therbjorn]

I'm going to say disagree.

For example a dwarf ranger.

*ahem*

Drori Brimbeard was raised in the mines of his father, yet being cooped up in there most of his life made him restless. The few occasions he was allowed to venture out into the outside world were heaven for him. Now an adult, he is free to do whatever he please and chooses to spend his time in the wilderness. He fights with two dwarven axes, crafted of the finest steal from his father's mine. He's not your typical stealthy hunter, more of a loveable, bluster-filled and blundering dwarf who wants to protect his beloved forest.

I feel it is most realistic to leave each races options open. In real life we aren't forced by our heritage to pursue only certain careers.

Another example, halfling barbarian.

Brennel Foulwind is one of the strangest halflings you could ever meet on the road. He lives in the open plains of Khorvaire alone. At a young age he was sent away to the Ghallanda boarding school, fifty miles from his home. En route he ran off and joined up with a pack of roving human barbarians. They took him in, figuring him an easy meal later on. When he realized the plot against him he ran again. For years he has lived alone out in the wilderness, and some of the thing that made him a halfling are now gone.


Another thing is realism only plays so much a part in a game like this. It is true that players enjoy realism, but then again you are playing a game with magic and monsters. Players like to have options, to be able to be original if they want. This would only constrict that. Another thing to consider is the fact the naturally, players want to have good builds and sometimes that calls for an unorthodox pairing. A good example is a warforged wizard. He is totally self healing, which he will be thanked for later on in the game. I say let players play what they want. In real life we are not constrained to life choices by our heredity.

[Borror0]

Agreed. I don't like the idea of restricting classes based on race, but the OP doesn't deserve the flaming.

Nice necro there...

Yes, this idea is a very stupid one. Just ignore that OLD thread. It does not deserve any attention.

[Aspenor]

From a realistic point of view i disagree.When im walking around in rl swinging my great axe around and shooting fireballs I would have been ****ed to find out I rolled the wrong race..

Personally, I walk around swinging a flail and greatsword in real life, and I throw lightning.

But to each their own I guess. I bet your neighbors hate you!! At least mine get free power.

[Uska]

Make your own game as its not for us here.

[dragonspeake]

Warforges and Bard/Monk/Rogue/Wizard/Sorceror,
or Haflings and Barbarian/Paladin (well, maybe not, maybe so),
or Dwarves and Ranger(possibly)/Wizard (maybe a Sorceror)?


Part of PNP is that halflings make great barb/pallys and that is totally ok in PNP. Dwarf ranger is one of the better builds in PNP and is encouraged. I think that you are trying to take away part of our customization. You are going to get ALOT of disagrees.


/NOT SIGNED

[Korvek]

Disagreed.

I personally see absolutely no "realistic" reasoning behind preventing a race from being able to play a certain class.

[MysticRhythms]

Disagree

Why stifle creativity?

[kpax]

disagree, but could be fun for your guild restrictions if you put one together

[vainangel]

What about penalties for WF being a Sorc? Or a lack of RAGE for Halflings? Or limits on Bard spells for Dwarf/WF?
More balance in the development of the Race/Class would add to depth of the game and force some really interesting builds.

But preventing a race to play a class in this game would destroy it [IMHO]

[Voalkrynn2]

At one point Dwarves could not become casters of any sort (2nd Edition PnP on back I think). I always thought that made sense. If we go down this road then why not introduce infravision (IR)? Parties with Humans would be subject to a massive spot check bonus for the mobs to see them as they would need to carry torches until they obtained IR vision granting items.