Unarmed Combat

[Sani_Medicor]

It doesn't really make sense that a monk can hit more often with two weapons than he can with two hands. Any chance of getting a line of feats similar to twf, itwf, and gtwf for hands?

[Borror0]

Nope, working as intended.

[Torilin]

for those of you out there that have been playing monks have you found more success (dps) using weapons or unarmed? Just currious since i have been raiding :)

[EinarMal]

All that really matters are two things, how many rolls (attacks) do you get per minute and how much damage do you do with each attack.

1 Minute:

2 Kamas with GTWF - 88 main hand/88 off hand = 176

Quarterstaff - 93 (animation is a bit faster)

Unarmed - 111 (animation is a bit faster still)

The Quarterstaff and kama benefit about equally from power attack and strength, unarmed is worse since you do not get 1.5 strength and +10 from power attack.

Unarmed has a higher base damage and you can use stunning fist.

From a DPS perspective the dual kamas are going to win, the extra attacks will overcome the quarterstaff if using good weapons and the unamred base damage.

The bottom line is monk's are broken in my opinion since unarmed attacks are the worst option that you could choose from a DPS perspective (maybe equally worse with quarterstaff). Dual wielding kamas is clearly superior.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

for those of you out there that have been playing monks have you found more success (dps) using weapons or unarmed? Just currious since i have been raiding :)

My belief is that you do more DPS at low lvls with weps.
But I haven't tried any special Ki attacks with weps yet......don't think they work, and that would throw unarmed over the top.

However.............

Who cares?!!!!
Monk unarmed combat is so cool looking......I couldn't bring myself to use my weps for more then a few seconds and then I switched back.

I was really hoping for a different Monk animation for kama and Qstaff fighting....but it's the same as what we have always had.

So......I stayed unarmed most of the night because it was so cool to see how Monks fight.

[EinarMal]

But I haven't tried any special Ki attacks with weps yet......don't think they work, and that would throw unarmed over the top.



This is not true, they work except for stunning fist, as long as it is a special monk weapon and you stay centered.

[Torilin]

All that really matters are two things, how many rolls (attacks) do you get per minute and how much damage do you do with each attack.

1 Minute:

2 Kamas with GTWF - 88 main hand/88 off hand = 176

Quarterstaff - 93 (animation is a bit faster)

Unarmed - 111 (animation is a bit faster still)

The Quarterstaff and kama benefit about equally from power attack and strength, unarmed is worse since you do not get 1.5 strength and +10 from power attack.

Unarmed has a higher base damage and you can use stunning fist.

From a DPS perspective the dual kamas are going to win, the extra attacks will overcome the quarterstaff if using good weapons and the unamred base damage.

The bottom line is monk's are broken in my opinion since unarmed attacks are the worst option that you could choose from a DPS perspective (maybe equally worse with quarterstaff). Dual wielding kamas is clearly superior.

Well i havnt played a monk yet and probably wont untill more is known, but I do agree that monks are broken if there is clealy more dps being generated from kama than unarmed combat. "The Way of the Monk" is all about unarmed combat.

[Borror0]

I do agree that monks are broken if there is clealy more dps being generated from kama than unarmed combat. "The Way of the Monk" is all about unarmed combat.

Not so much, no need for higher DPS, you just need reasons to build it differently.

Higher DPS isn't the only thing to see. You still like a ranger over a barbarian, right?

[CSFurious]

are really just gimped rangers IMO

monk unarmed combat needs to be fixed or the monk will be about as valuable as a pallie in a group at current end-game

[salmag]

I don't think the problem is with unarmed combat, but with the generating of Ki. Using the special attacks makes unarmed combat very useful, but the problem is Ki needs to build up in order for them to become effective. So you have to fight more and more mobs to generate more Ki, then you have to find new mobs to use your special attacks on. Unfortunately, you must do this before your Ki depletes and you lose it all.

If you meditate, you only get partial Ki and it seems to me like it depletes more rapidly then the Ki you gain while fighting.

I would much rather see the more logical solutions to the Ki problem. Meditate to gain your max Ki, use your abilities to deplete it, then have it regen at a slower rate, or meditate or use shrine to gain it back quicker. Meditates are only a limited number of uses anyway.

[EinarMal]

I don't think the problem is with unarmed combat, but with the generating of Ki. Using the special attacks makes unarmed combat very useful, but the problem is Ki needs to build up in order for them to become effective. So you have to fight more and more mobs to generate more Ki, then you have to find new mobs to use your special attacks on. Unfortunately, you must do this before your Ki depletes and you lose it all.

If you meditate, you only get partial Ki and it seems to me like it depletes more rapidly then the Ki you gain while fighting.

I would much rather see the more logical solutions to the Ki problem. Meditate to gain your max Ki, use your abilities to deplete it, then have it regen at a slower rate, or meditate or use shrine to gain it back quicker. Meditates are only a limited number of uses anyway.

The only special attack that you can't use with monk weapons is stunning fist, so that makes no difference. You actually generate more Ki by fighting with two kama's since you get more attacks over the same time period.

[flynnsane]

After waiting patiently for 2 years I'm disappointed in the monk implementation.

Making Unarmed less attractive than dual wielding is a bummer.

Not granting Imp Trip w/o meeting the pre-reqs is a bummer.

The Flurry implementation is a MAJOR downer.

Not granting full Str bonus in the off hand while flurrying is just sad.

Not allowing Unarmed to work w/2WF is a major bummer, too.

Ki is a novel idea. Still getting used to it.

Adding Toughness (and the rest) as a bonus Monk feat was nice, but that's about all I liked about their departure from the PHB.

There's a lot of testing to be done so I'm reserving judgement, but at first glance I'm underwhelmed as they just seem like gimped Rangers with some novelties thrown in.

Still, I can't help but play one since I've been craving them for 2 years. If they don't perform well (or, equally as likely, *I* don't perform well playing them as they're more complex and require better twitch skills) I'll shelve him, save my precious and small horde of tomes, and wait...*again*...for Druids.

I'd suggest Turbine think seriously about:

1. Changing Flurry to be PnP compliant.

2. Allowing Unarmed to work w/2WF

3. Applying full Str bonus to the offhand while flurrying (but not while 2WF)

Anywho, hope it turns out that I'm just overly pessimistic and they perform better than I expect.

[Onubis]

***... *** would u not let the off hand be full str mod added to dmg??? thats how its always been in PnP 3.5... and did some1 say that u get 1.5x str mod for 1 handed weapons in this game??? ... wow thats y melee combat is so broken... weilding a 1 handed weapon should only recieve full str mod not 1.5, though you should be allowed to weild most 1 handed weapons as 2 handed whihc would change to the 1.5 X str mod... What do 2 handed weapons get 2 x str mod in this game??? the ONLY class to get that ability is the p.c. MAster Samurai thru his class trait blades of death....
ANd last I checked a monk using kamas still uses flurry not TWF.....

edit... and y doesnt monk faster movement stack with striding when barb's does