Am I wrong

[Sefuss]

So when I get bored, I like to solo dust on elite up to the queen. I clear all six intial hallways, and clear two long hallways. Obviously i try not to kill any spiders, sometimes even starting over if do. This takes alot of potions, a few scrolls, and good amount of time, so this weekend I put up a lfm for "4elite chest and end reward in 15 minutes for 5k plat." Just figured I did most of the work, might as well cover some of the cost. Now I had people that joined that were happy to pay the money, knowing they would probably make the money up with the chest, but I got a couple of tells asking me what I was thinking charging money, and one guy said he would never pay me to play me.:D I only responded by saying it was their choice, and smiled.

The groups were both successful runs, but was I wrong to ask for that money. I supply money to my brother and his kid who are kinda new, and alway have about 100 heal scrolls for shroud clerics,so any extra money I can get helps. But maybe I was wrong to put that up. I would imagine there are probably a dozen people on server I could ask for money, but not my style. Give me some opinions people. Was I being resourseful or greedy?

[Vardak]

So when I get bored, I like to solo dust on elite up to the queen. I clear all six intial hallways, and clear two long hallways. Obviously i try not to kill any spiders, sometimes even starting over if do. This takes alot of potions, a few scrolls, and good amount of time, so this weekend I put up a lfm for "4elite chest and end reward in 15 minutes for 5k plat." Just figured I did most of the work, might as well cover some of the cost. Now I had people that joined that were happy to pay the money, knowing they would probably make the money up with the chest, but I got a couple of tells asking me what I was thinking charging money, and one guy said he would never pay me to play me.:D I only responded by saying it was their choice, and smiled.

The groups were both successful runs, but was I wrong to ask for that money. I supply money to my brother and his kid who are kinda new, and alway have about 100 heal scrolls for shroud clerics,so any extra money I can get helps. But maybe I was wrong to put that up. I would imagine there are probably a dozen people on server I could ask for money, but not my style. Give me some opinions people. Was I being resourseful or greedy?

Hmmm, I'll go with greedy. Only because the use of resources could have been reduced simply by creating the group at the start of the quest rather than the end. The extension of this thought is the jerks who place valueless items in the AH for extreme prices hoping for a miss click. PT Barnum was correct but had the ethics of a ... well a circus owner.

[smithers]

So when I get bored, I like to solo dust on elite up to the queen. I clear all six intial hallways, and clear two long hallways. Obviously i try not to kill any spiders, sometimes even starting over if do. This takes alot of potions, a few scrolls, and good amount of time, so this weekend I put up a lfm for "4elite chest and end reward in 15 minutes for 5k plat." Just figured I did most of the work, might as well cover some of the cost. Now I had people that joined that were happy to pay the money, knowing they would probably make the money up with the chest, but I got a couple of tells asking me what I was thinking charging money, and one guy said he would never pay me to play me.:D I only responded by saying it was their choice, and smiled.

The groups were both successful runs, but was I wrong to ask for that money. I supply money to my brother and his kid who are kinda new, and alway have about 100 heal scrolls for shroud clerics,so any extra money I can get helps. But maybe I was wrong to put that up. I would imagine there are probably a dozen people on server I could ask for money, but not my style. Give me some opinions people. Was I being resourseful or greedy?

Well, obviously some people think so; they already told you and you are going to hear more of the same here I think.

I have similarly solod this one and Rainbow, sometimes putting up a late LFM inviting people to join for easy loot. It would never occur to me to charge a fee. I wouldn't say it's "wrong" to do this, but I suspect most players would agree that it's unseemly, greedy, and generally bad form.

I guess I'd rather meet 5 appreciative players than walk away with 25K plat and suffer rude tells and possible grumbling from anyone whose pulls they thought weren't worth the entry fee.

Of course, if you don't care what people think keep at it, but then I guess you wouldn't be coming to the forums asking the question, right? Anyways, many of my best DDO moments were when a newly-met player did something generous and unexpected; I still use some special items that were received in this way long ago, and I enjoy passing on items to players, especially ones who are new and less-equipped. Much more fun to donate a vorpal to a guy who'se never held one than to sell it for 20k plat or whatever, but I guess that depends on your own nature, doesn't it?

[Gunga]

What up Sef!

No man...you do what you want bro. You saved some time by running the quest for other people...and handing over a very easy chance at a +2 tome is worth whatever price people will pay. If you're not getting any responses, lower the ante.

[Ninety]

really depends on what class you are, if your a caster, I would say 5k plat is a bit much per person to join. with a good haggle toon, heal pots are 100 for about 6500 plat and i doubt ya went through all of them to get done. recalling for sp or /death to get to meredia for sp is much cheaper than drinking an over priced mana pot. Clerics are about the same except using a couple of wands/scrolls. if your soloing as a melee, yeah I could see that being very expensive.

Mind I don't play on this server, the thread just caught my eye for some reason this morning.

[Ransacked]

I think that you had a great idea and should do it more often.

If people don't want to pay 5,000 plat to get into a quest, loot some chests, and then receive an end reward then they don't need to join your party. Those same people can also run the quest by themselves. No harm, no foul.

[Aspenor]

I think you're within your rights to do it. Those people sending you nasty tells probably are just being snarky and selfish, because obviously there were some that thought this deal to be quite fair.

I'd look at them the same way that a business would look at those that send in complaints about their services being too expensive, even though it's a top notch service. You will get complaints when you charge for things, but you have to be able to let those complaints roll off your back.

Capitalism ftw

[Ransacked]

really depends on what class you are, if your a caster, I would say 5k plat is a bit much per person to join. with a good haggle toon, heal pots are 100 for about 6500 plat and i doubt ya went through all of them to get done. recalling for sp or /death to get to meredia for sp is much cheaper than drinking an over priced mana pot. Clerics are about the same except using a couple of wands/scrolls. if your soloing as a melee, yeah I could see that being very expensive.

Mind I don't play on this server, the thread just caught my eye for some reason this morning.

Who cares how much the guy spent in resources? He could charge 100,000K plat for people to join. His quest instance, his chests, his choice to pop them or wait for others to buy a ticket at a chance of random loot.

The question is could he have charged more?

[Impaqt]

I had no idea where this would apply until just now.


Using any method to loot a chest or accept quest reward with any character who did not complete the related quest objective from start to finish.


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=146613&highlight=Exploits

Pretty sure Paying someone for a Quest reward rather than actually doing the entire quest is a Whopper....

[Aspenor]

I had no idea where this would apply until just now.




http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=146613&highlight=Exploits

Pretty sure Paying someone for a Quest reward rather than actually doing the entire quest is a Whopper....

While I understand your point, this is not an exploit. You're viewing that comment far too generally.

[Ransacked]

Using any method to loot a chest or accept quest reward with any character who did not complete the related quest objective from start to finish.

They aren't exploiting... They are with the guy who originally opened the instance. Even then, they are in the instance when it completes.

I'd say bad move if they figured out a way to get an end-reward from the NPC without actually taking the quest and getting the objective complete inside the instance.

[Sefuss]

I am certainly not trying to exploit it. I have killed all the ogre and oranged named, and we will have to kill the end guy together. I have just made it a quicker run for them. If I am told this is wrong by a dev, I certainly will stop this activity. Thanks for all the responses people. Much appreciated.

[smithers]

While I understand your point, this is not an exploit. You're viewing that comment far too generally.

I don't think so; it's written pretty clearly.

I didn't mention it above, but I had a vague memory of someone getting spanked for doing something similar. Oh, now I remember; it was someone who put up an LFM in an attempt to trade Reaver loot (before they changed chests to make this impossible)

A lot of players, and obviously the devs, are against behavior that promotes the view that the game is simply a race to acquire more loot. When the game is reduced to this it loses all of the magic and most of the fun. Some people above said "way to go, this is capitalism!" or whatever, but let's be honest; anyone who views the game this way will quickly lose interest and be forced to admit that none of this **** has any real value and you've wasted your days chasing pixels.

[Ransacked]

I don't think so; it's written pretty clearly.

I didn't mention it above, but I had a vague memory of someone getting spanked for doing something similar. Oh, now I remember; it was someone who put up an LFM in an attempt to trade Reaver loot (before they changed chests to make this impossible)

A lot of players, and obviously the devs, are against behavior that promotes the view that the game is simply a race to acquire more loot. When the game is reduced to this it loses all of the magic and most of the fun. Some people above said "way to go, this is capitalism!" or whatever, but let's be honest; anyone who views the game this way will quickly lose interest and be forced to admit that none of this **** has any real value and you've wasted your days chasing pixels.

Trading the loot wasn't the issue there...

You can PM the KK about what the issue was.

[Impaqt]

While I understand your point, this is not an exploit. You're viewing that comment far too generally.


ONE persone Completed All objectives... 6 People get Ingrediants chests and end reward. If its not an exploits it is extremely Cheesy. and charging for it is low budget.

[Aspenor]

I don't think so; it's written pretty clearly.

I didn't mention it above, but I had a vague memory of someone getting spanked for doing something similar. Oh, now I remember; it was someone who put up an LFM in an attempt to trade Reaver loot (before they changed chests to make this impossible)

A lot of players, and obviously the devs, are against behavior that promotes the view that the game is simply a race to acquire more loot. When the game is reduced to this it loses all of the magic and most of the fun. Some people above said "way to go, this is capitalism!" or whatever, but let's be honest; anyone who views the game this way will quickly lose interest and be forced to admit that none of this **** has any real value and you've wasted your days chasing pixels.

No, this is something different entirely. In your case, the quest was already completed and the loot generated. In this case, the OP is not taking advantage of any bugs or game miscues. If he had figured out some way to sell quest rewards without ever completing a quest, we might be talking.

In this case, the quest is not completed yet, only partially run by an individual charging for his resources and time.

The devs are against behavior that takes advantage of game mechanics and bugs. The actions taken by the OP have done neither.

[Aspenor]

ONE persone Completed All objectives... 6 People get Ingrediants chests and end reward. If its not an exploits it is extremely Cheesy. and charging for it is low budget.

By this logic, joining ANY party that is "in progress" of a quest would be cheesy and/or exploitative.

You and I both know that's not the case.

[Impaqt]

By this logic, joining ANY party that is "in progress" of a quest would be cheesy and/or exploitative.

You and I both know that's not the case.


I feel there is a significant difference between 5 people startign a quest and leaving the LFM up for a 6th, and one person soloing it then Charging for the privledge of looting a chest.

[Gunga]

I don't think so; it's written pretty clearly.

I didn't mention it above, but I had a vague memory of someone getting spanked for doing something similar. Oh, now I remember; it was someone who put up an LFM in an attempt to trade Reaver loot (before they changed chests to make this impossible)

A lot of players, and obviously the devs, are against behavior that promotes the view that the game is simply a race to acquire more loot. When the game is reduced to this it loses all of the magic and most of the fun. Some people above said "way to go, this is capitalism!" or whatever, but let's be honest; anyone who views the game this way will quickly lose interest and be forced to admit that none of this **** has any real value and you've wasted your days chasing pixels.

Vague memory? Scare tactics anyone?

[Gunga]

ONE persone Completed All objectives... 6 People get Ingrediants chests and end reward. If its not an exploits it is extremely Cheesy. and charging for it is low budget.

Wow. Are all of your toons Lawful Good?

[Aspenor]

I feel there is a significant difference between 5 people startign a quest and leaving the LFM up for a 6th, and one person soloing it then Charging for the privledge of looting a chest.

Just because there is a difference doesnt mean one is an exploit.

[Sefuss]

I feel there is a significant difference between 5 people startign a quest and leaving the LFM up for a 6th, and one person soloing it then Charging for the privledge of looting a chest.

I don't even know how to do the wheels in the last part, and wouldn't complete quest without them. I am just saving them the hour it took me to clear all the hallways. The other peeps are neccessary to complete quest, and I tell them that up front. They had no problem with it, especially the barb that pull the +3 vorpal returner. :)

[Impaqt]

Wow. Are all of your toons Lawful Good?

No, But I play this game to have Fun. Having someone else complete a quest for me and then charge me for the right to open a chest and get an end reward is not fun.

[Impaqt]

I don't even know how to do the wheels in the last part, and wouldn't complete quest without them. I am just saving them the hour it took me to clear all the hallways. The other peeps are neccessary to complete quest, and I tell them that up front. They had no problem with it, especially the barb that pull the +3 vorpal returner. :)

:rolleyes: The wheel runes are right on the walls in the halways before the end boss.

[Sefuss]

:rolleyes: The wheel runes are right on the walls in the halways before the end boss.

I prefer to pay someone to do them for me, but I don't change my own oil either.;)

[Aspenor]

No, But I play this game to have Fun. Having someone else complete a quest for me and then charge me for the right to open a chest and get an end reward is not fun.

But for some people it might be fun. Obviously so, since he had some takers.

[Gunga]

No, But I play this game to have Fun. Having someone else complete a quest for me and then charge me for the right to open a chest and get an end reward is not fun.

While waiting for my shroud to fill up, jump into a spiders, collect 4 chests and an end reward, and then then jump back into the yet unfilled Shroud. Yeah, your'e right, that's no fun at all....

PS: Hey Seef...Those runes are always the same man...I'll show them to ya so that you don't actually need anyone else. Maybe you can raise your price. ;)

[ariel7]

So when I get bored, I like to solo dust on elite up to the queen. I clear all six intial hallways, and clear two long hallways. Obviously i try not to kill any spiders, sometimes even starting over if do. This takes alot of potions, a few scrolls, and good amount of time, so this weekend I put up a lfm for "4elite chest and end reward in 15 minutes for 5k plat." Just figured I did most of the work, might as well cover some of the cost. Now I had people that joined that were happy to pay the money, knowing they would probably make the money up with the chest, but I got a couple of tells asking me what I was thinking charging money, and one guy said he would never pay me to play me.:D I only responded by saying it was their choice, and smiled.

The groups were both successful runs, but was I wrong to ask for that money. I supply money to my brother and his kid who are kinda new, and alway have about 100 heal scrolls for shroud clerics,so any extra money I can get helps. But maybe I was wrong to put that up. I would imagine there are probably a dozen people on server I could ask for money, but not my style. Give me some opinions people. Was I being resourseful or greedy?

It's been my experience when conducting some sort of questionable behavior and feeling bad about it, one tends to try to find justifications for it. This happens in business ethics, dating, or...ddo. The more one recognizes that one could be conducting themselves a little better, the more they begin seeking a last desperate chance that someone can convince them that they're doing something at least border-line acceptable. I'm not saying this is or is not happening with you, but it's like saying to a shrink, so my friend has this problem...

I respect that you wish to help supply the bother and his kid but possibly supplying them advice, and not materials would better serve them. Give someone a bastard sword, they can kill a boss or two, teach them to wield it, you get the idea.

Finally, lets say your nephew is bored, and elects to spend his time charging people for his resources. He decides to take a socially oriented venture and use a considerable amount of time and other resources to forgo anyone else's involvement, then decides to pirate others who might be in some sort of need by charging them, promising them little investment for easy loot. All the while he's quite possibly risking being banned, or encouraging others to potentially violate their already made agreements. What do you tell your nephew then?

I think it is one of those things that wrecks the economics of the game, and certainly works very hard to imbalance things. Clearly if the person paying for it weren't getting over, they wouldn't be giving some random person 50k gold. I only say all of this, because you asked for those opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommunity Kobald
Using any method to loot a chest or accept quest reward with any character who did not complete the related quest objective from start to finish.

I just cut and pasted the quote, which was disputed later. It did say the quest objective from start to finish. The end reward is a reward for the quest, which was clearly NOT completed from start to finish. That being said, I think there is a VAST difference in joining a quest later than others, and joining like this. *looking left and right* Ah, there comes the flaming patrol lol

[ariel7]

Just because there is a difference doesnt mean one is an exploit.

It also does not mean one is not. Being a difference means only that we are differentiating between the two. You're right, it doesn't automatically condemn one method as an exploit, but it also does not automatically exonerate it, either.

[Gunga]

It's been my experience when conducting some sort of questionable behavior and feeling bad about it, one tends to try to find justifications for it. This happens in business ethics, dating, or...ddo. The more one recognizes that one could be conducting themselves a little better, the more they begin seeking a last desperate chance that someone can convince them that they're doing something at least border-line acceptable. I'm not saying this is or is not happening with you, but it's like saying to a shrink, so my friend has this problem...

I respect that you wish to help supply the bother and his kid but possibly supplying them advice, and not materials would better serve them. Give someone a bastard sword, they can kill a boss or two, teach them to wield it, you get the idea.

Finally, lets say your nephew is bored, and elects to spend his time charging people for his resources. He decides to take a socially oriented venture and use a considerable amount of time and other resources to forgo anyone else's involvement, then decides to pirate others who might be in some sort of need by charging them, promising them little investment for easy loot. All the while he's quite possibly risking being banned, or encouraging others to potentially violate their already made agreements. What do you tell your nephew then?

I think it is one of those things that wrecks the economics of the game, and certainly works very hard to imbalance things. Clearly if the person paying for it weren't getting over, they wouldn't be giving some random person 50k gold. I only say all of this, because you asked for those opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommunity Kobald
Using any method to loot a chest or accept quest reward with any character who did not complete the related quest objective from start to finish.

I just cut and pasted the quote, which was disputed later. It did say the quest objective from start to finish. The end reward is a reward for the quest, which was clearly NOT completed from start to finish. That being said, I think there is a VAST difference in joining a quest later than others, and joining like this. *looking left and right* Ah, there comes the flaming patrol lol

I'm a high level executive of a large company. I have found that people who preach ethics often have something to learn about the very subject.

[Aspenor]

LOL

Goodbye LFM's saying "in progress." :rolleyes:

[Gunga]

It also does not mean one is not. Being a difference means only that we are differentiating between the two. You're right, it doesn't automatically condemn one method as an exploit, but it also does not automatically exonerate it, either.

So, everything should be considered an exploit unless specifically "exonerated" by the devs?! Did someone mention fun in this thread?

[Impaqt]

So, everything should be considered an exploit unless specifically "exonerated" by the devs?! Did someone mention fun in this thread?

If its Questionable, Sure.

I'd much rather err on the side of caution then end up with a Ban.

[Gunga]

If its Questionable, Sure.

I'd much rather err on the side of caution then end up with a Ban.

I'm going Lawful Neutral with you.

[Sefuss]

If its Questionable, Sure.

I'd much rather err on the side of caution then end up with a Ban.

Geez, I hope this isn't my goodbye thread, cuase I would have done alot more whining on the direction this game is going.:D

[Missing_Minds]

No, But I play this game to have Fun. Having someone else complete a quest for me and then charge me for the right to open a chest and get an end reward is not fun.

And it is your choice to join or not.

The quest was completed without exploits. The op went through the work himself, without exploits, and as such provided a service at an in game cost.

Pray tell, how different is this than hiring mercenaries? I really can't find any difference. Only in this case the merc gets a cut of the loot as well. The counter to this is that turbine has stated that (if I remember correctly) that people can not higher plat farmers for services to get through quests and raids for the raid loot for Real Life currency. These people also work around your schedual or require you to give over your account for a time period in order to accomplish said goal. The OP did this on his time, did not spam tells, only took in game currency, did not touch their loot nor give over his own cut of it. I personally see nothing wrong with this.

Remember also that said "buyers" can also hop into the instance (quest or vale) and suddenly you can't be kicked out of the group. You have free reign to hop into the quest, grab chests ending the chance for people not yet back in the quest to get their loot. Once in the instance the person doesn't have to pay for the privilege either. His system has lots of risk in it.

[ariel7]

So, everything should be considered an exploit unless specifically "exonerated" by the devs?! Did someone mention fun in this thread?

No, of course not. I was merely mentioning that saying two things being different didn't make one good and the other bad, nor both good/both bad. In my opinion, it's up to the OP to do what the OP thinks is right. We can't make choices for other people as to what they feel, we can only share our own thoughts and experiences.


I'm a high level executive of a large company. I have found that people who preach ethics often have something to learn about the very subject.

I have something to learn about every subject. I was asked for an opinion and gave it. Notice I said I think, I respect, it's been my experience, etc. I was clearly stating opinions and not pronouncing judgments. It seemed from reading the OP's post he was having an ethical dilemma of his own, and I recall someone I respect having me look at a situation I was having difficulty with in much the same way.

I'm not sure why we need to know where you work, or how being in business would provide you with experience in ethics, but then again, what do I know?

[Ransacked]

It's not even like the entire quest was done.

The "hired henchman" had to dispose of the threat against the spider queen and then finish off the boss mobs for the final chests.

Both cases where the party was receiving chests the members of the group were present.

Why is this even a discussion?

[Impaqt]

And it is your choice to join or not.

The quest was completed without exploits. The op went through the work himself, without exploits, and as such provided a service at an in game cost.

Pray tell, how different is this than hiring mercenaries? I really can't find any difference. Only in this case the merc gets a cut of the loot as well. The counter to this is that turbine has stated that (if I remember correctly) that people can higher plat farmers for services to get through quests and raids for the raid loot for Real Life currency. These people also work around your schedual or require you to give over your account for a time period in order to accomplish said goal. The OP did this on his time, did not spam tells, only took in game currency, did not touch their loot nor give over his own cut of it. I personally see nothing wrong with this.

Remember also that said "buyers" can also hop into the instance (quest or vale) and suddenly you can't be kicked out of the group. You have free reign to hop into the quest, grab chests ending the chance for people not yet back in the quest to get their loot. Once in the instance the person doesn't have to pay for the privilege either. His system has lots of risk in it.

rofl. I'd LOVE to see a Dev say its A-OK to Hire a Plat farmer to Power Level your Character.

This conversation is gettign rediculous. Justify it any way ya want folks.... Its not for me to judge. The op asked for opinions and I priovided mine.

If ya have to ask, its probobly not kosher. If ya feel bad about doing it, its probobly wasnt fuin.

[ariel7]

It's not even like the entire quest was done.

The "hired henchman" had to dispose of the threat against the spider queen and then finish off the boss mobs for the final chests.

Both cases where the party was receiving chests the members of the group were present.

Why is this even a discussion?

Because he asked for people's opinions.

To be honest, after reading later that he needed help with the puzzle and so on, making the late-comers essential to the success of the adventure, I'd have to give it a thumbs up. I hadn't read that far when I responded to the OP. So, as the refs say, "Upon further review" I'd pay the 5k plat to help with resources expended only (never as being made to feel it as a fee to join) and help at the end as I was able. BTW, OP, I HATE that quest lol.

[Archetype48]

If its Questionable, Sure.

I'd much rather err on the side of caution then end up with a Ban.

next they'll take away our right to smoke in public...(illinois, cali,...)

I may not agree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it.

being good is not the inability to do certain things, but bettering yourself till those things, no longer, are necessary.

I think we need more stupidity in the world. Soon enough everyone will come to know and fear it. Till then it hides amongst us protected by the lack freedom to express itself.

a bunch of disjointed thoughts that pop into my head almost every time i participate in the forums.

[Gunga]

No, of course not. I was merely mentioning that saying two things being different didn't make one good and the other bad, nor both good/both bad. In my opinion, it's up to the OP to do what the OP thinks is right. We can't make choices for other people as to what they feel, we can only share our own thoughts and experiences.



I have something to learn about every subject. I was asked for an opinion and gave it. Notice I said I think, I respect, it's been my experience, etc. I was clearly stating opinions and not pronouncing judgments. It seemed from reading the OP's post he was having an ethical dilemma of his own, and I recall someone I respect having me look at a situation I was having difficulty with in much the same way.

I'm not sure why we need to know where you work, or how being in business would provide you with experience in ethics, but then again, what do I know?

Ethics are specific to the group to which the member belongs. What is ethical for one group may be unethical for another. I officially belong to the group where this practice is neither unethical nor exploitative. Just remember to have fun. Do you think it's ethical that you hit these forums while at work?

[ariel7]

next they'll take away our right to smoke in public...(illinois, cali,...)

I may not agree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it.

being good is not the inability to do certain things, but bettering yourself till those things, no longer, are necessary.

I think we need more stupidity in the world. Soon enough everyone will come to know and fear it. Till then it hides amongst us protected by the lack freedom to express itself.

a bunch of disjointed thoughts that pop into my head almost every time i participate in the forums.

Taking away the right to smoke in public all the way from what's right or wrong with a situation in a video game?

That being said, I hope it passes. NYC is a much more enjoyable place for nightlife without it.

[Catlyn]

Fuss dude,

Your time, do what you want. IF you feel $5K is fair, list it as such.

If people want to come, they will pony up.

If they think it unfair, no one is making them pay it.

Lastly, I don't understand why people get bent out of shape over what other people do with in the game. It is not like this is game breaking or will have an effect on anyone else.

Personally, I would read it and either join ya or move on and forget about it.

[Aspenor]

Taking away the right to smoke in public all the way from what's right or wrong with a situation in a video game?

That being said, I hope it passes. NYC is a much more enjoyable place for nightlife without it.

Tell that to the bar and dance club owners. I'm sure they think it's enjoyable....:rolleyes::eek:

[Gunga]

Taking away the right to smoke in public all the way from what's right or wrong with a situation in a video game?

That being said, I hope it passes. NYC is a much more enjoyable place for nightlife without it.

Unless you were a taxpaying law abiding smoker.

[ariel7]

Ethics are specific to the group to which the member belongs. What is ethical for one group may be unethical for another. I officially belong to the group where this practice is neither unethical nor exploitative. Just remember to have fun. Do you think it's ethical that you hit these forums while at work?

I completely concur about ethics being relative to the various groupS a person belongs to. Sometimes the different groups are at odds with one another. Also agree having fun is the most important part.

I am not hitting these forums while at work. I resigned my position and will not be working again for 2 more months, and not full time for another couple of years (going to get another degree). Gives me a lot more time to have fun. The summer of Ariel, ala George Costanza. It's a great point though, the ethics of such activities during work. It's increasingly a factor in today's workplace.

[ariel7]

Unless you were a taxpaying law abiding smoker.

Not always about the smoker, sometimes its about the person who doesn't smoke who has allergic or other medical reactions to the smoke, the people merely annoyed by it, down to the "innocent" person who ends up with cancer from second hand smoke.


Tell that to the bar and dance club owners. I'm sure they think it's enjoyable....:rolleyes::eek:

Bars and dance clubs are still doing quite well in NYC.

[Deragoth]

I remember that LFM. I think I sent you a "/tell LMAO, That's awesome" remark, or some such. Nothing wrong with that. It's not like you are forcing people to join your group. Seriously though, even loot trash will net you at least 2k plat after that fee.

I'm lazy, maybe next time I'll join ya when you're done with all the work. ;)

[Missing_Minds]

rofl. I'd LOVE to see a Dev say its A-OK to Hire a Plat farmer to Power Level your Character.

???? *reads up* AH CRUD.. left out the all important "not" in that line. doh!

[Missing_Minds]

next they'll take away our right to smoke in public...(illinois, cali,...)

You mean your privilege.

[Gauery]

No one has a problem with supplying plat or items to a cleric to make a quest easier it is only an issue with a caster? I belive if he was a cleric the posts would have gone a different way because of the amount of funds it can take to run a cleric. In a since he will probably just put the money back into the system for clerics i.e scrolls, pots, wands.

[Hobble_Gobble]

So is this wrong: Sometimes I solo the Pit as far as the Muckdoom chest just for fun (I love that place). Then before killing the named ooze I put up a LFM: "Pit - free pull at the Muckdoom chest, byo fire resist". I figure, what the heck why not give some others a chance to pull a Muckdoom too? I don't ask for plat, it never occurred to me (also I'm sure I haven't thrown out the resources that it would take to solo Dust). Does this make it less wrong, or more right..."no" in my opinion. Sadly, I think both of these activities violate the letter of the law (as put down by Turbine), but I don't think either will result in bans. Even if I'm not gaining Plat, I'm still possibly making friends, which could be much more valuable in the long run...Would Turbine really want to prohibit us from making friends...?

Happy Hunting

[Shoal]

I actually think that this adds an element to the in-game economy. To me, it seems no different in spirit than an item trade. Granted, I personally just give away items that I don't need, but I don't see anything wrong with those who want something in return, via a direct trade or the AH.

[Ransacked]

So is this wrong: Sometimes I solo the Pit as far as the Muckdoom chest just for fun (I love that place). Then before killing the named ooze I put up a LFM: "Pit - free pull at the Muckdoom chest, byo fire resist". I figure, what the heck why not give some others a chance to pull a Muckdoom too? I don't ask for plat, it never occurred to me (also I'm sure I haven't thrown out the resources that it would take to solo Dust). Does this make it less wrong, or more right..."no" in my opinion. Sadly, I think both of these activities violate the letter of the law (as put down by Turbine), but I don't think either will result in bans. Even if I'm not gaining Plat, I'm still possibly making friends, which could be much more valuable in the long run...Would Turbine really want to prohibit us from making friends...?

Happy Hunting


If you wanted to be a stickler about it invite the group before spawning the Avatar.

All those present to kill the avatar get a chance at the chest.

1 Completed objective - 1 Lootable chest.

Yay.

[Rekker]

I thought it was against the "rules" to post that type of stuff in the LFM's ???

I remember this all being brought up when people would post free chest LFMs for other quests.

[Obmi]

5k to loot all those chests and get a turn in... this game, as in life is all about efficiency and good use of time and resources :)
send me a tell next time:D

thanks obmi (level 16 master piker )
p.s. can someone tell me when monks go live? thanks

[Coldest]

Fuss,

Had you just come clean and been upfront with everyone, none of this would be an issue. I know that your trying to work off an extensive bar bill at the Wayward and the Phoenix. Knowing this, I completely understood the "Will work for Plat" sign you had up this weekend. Most every one else are not privvy to your "libation" issues. Next weekend post up with a "Will work for Beer" sign and you shouldn't catch the grief.

[Sweets]

Sorry but to post it only makes it wrong.As far as having others join for the easy loot for a price well thats up to them.If they dont want to pay then they dont have to join.Good way to up your own plat stash as well as others.Once again the only problem I see is that to put it up in lfm is the problem.I have been warned twice in the past 2 years for posting a quest and using the type in box for personal needs.So if they dont allow that then allowing you to post plat for chest isn't going to fly.Either way a very creative move.:)

[Xalted_Vol]

Very resourceful what a great idea for guilds and loot runs I only wish I had thought of it :)

[smithers]

Vague memory? Scare tactics anyone?

Scare tactics? What are you saying that I'm a liar? To hades with you "high level exec" lol.

[Vardak]

Not always about the smoker, sometimes its about the person who doesn't smoke who has allergic or other medical reactions to the smoke, the people merely annoyed by it, down to the "innocent" person who ends up with cancer from second hand smoke.



Bars and dance clubs are still doing quite well in NYC.

Choice is a funny thing... this "innocent" person has their choices expanded while the "villain" has theirs restricted.

[Vardak]

You mean your privilege.

Yep, just checked... smoke free environment is missing from the bill of rights as well.

[Ki_Draken_Magus]

Yep, just checked... smoke free environment is missing from the bill of rights as well.

It's not in the Bill of Rights, but you might want to check out the numerous workman's compensation cases involving second hand smoke.

Every citizen has the right of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. However, those are not absolute rights, as they are limited when they begin to impact your fellow citizens.

It is written, "Your right to throw a punch, ends with my nose."

[ariel7]

Choice is a funny thing... this "innocent" person has their choices expanded while the "villain" has theirs restricted.

Actually I disagree there, the smoker was previously restricting the options of SOME non-smokers. Smoking kills people, and not just the people actually smoking. If it were a law saying people weren't allowed to chew gum in public, maybe I'd be more sympathetic, as one person chewing gum doesn't usually involve risking the life of the chewer or people nearby.

[Accelerando]

Psh. No you were not wrong. Keep doing what you are doing you drunk bada**, they might keep making commercials
about you.

"He's a lover, not a fighter. But he's also a fighter so don't get any ideas"
LMAO

[iruka41]

Not wrong at all.

Some people might not like the idea but that's just how they feel, which is not a right/wrong thingy.
As long as it doesn't involve the real world money, anything can happen here and there's nothing wrong.

He's doing his business, not yours.

Of course I have guildies offers the same thing for me for free, but that's what guild are good for.
It was a PUG, and why people upset about the 'fee'? You want it for free, you solo it, and don't complain.

[Docta_PoPo]

4 chests and an end reward took about 5 mins in between shroud runs
spent 5k plat made 3.5k plat from the junk items and sold an icyburst dager of greater construct bane so it paid for itself. was quick and convienient

[Neon_Budz]

Are people still even concerned about Plat at this point in the game? 5k P is nothing more than pocket change.

Sefuss man, I was there with ya, I gave you 25k P cause we are tight. I would have given you more, but you wouldn't have taken it.

Plat has no value, it is easily attainable.

Want to make millions? Undercut everything on the AH by 50% and sell almost every item you post. Yup, I'm the guy that is always posting those items you can't believe you got "a deal" on that you think were posted by someone who "must be stupid." I'm also the guy that can make 100kP doing favor in the harbor for guildees just by pricing items at a reasonable price with a buyout that ties in to demand. Most people who are powerleveling don't really care about dropping 20-50k P on an item if they can buy it out RIGHT NOW as opposed to 3 days from now when they are no longer level 4.

I'll mail you a bunch of stacks of Tasty Hams to help you solo this. Way cheaper than pots, eat 1 and let the regen do its thing while you keep on killing. You will make even more dirty PLat that way! Keep playing however you want and don't rely on these forum trolls to justify it.


muwahahahahaha

[Furgulder]

Id pay ya 5k for a mustache ride Fuss!

Go Brewers!!

furg

[Accelerando]

Id pay ya 5k for a mustache ride Fuss!

Go Brewers!!

furg

*crickets*