Time to say it...Forgotten Realms

[fatherpirate]

Eberon fanboys...take you medication..and please refrain from your usual posting.

If wizards 'pushed' eberon as the setting for the first DDO world, Turbine should sue them for damages and losses.

Ok, we all love D+D so why are the servers empty? Most D+D players hate eberon or don't even knows it exists.

OK turbine, wanna make this work or not?

If not, fine, sell the IP.


If you do, hire a bunch more developers, get some seed money, and get to work developing a world creation engine
that can create DDO worlds, compeditive graphics, works in 3 axis (x/y/z)

also

finish filling in the missing classes, races, weapon, spells, feats up to 20th lvl ect... from the 3.5 players handbooks...yesterday

THEN

while keeping eberon going, build Forgotten Realms world...using current game mechanics
Run new ads..........start viral marketing.........get the word out...something DIFFERENT in MMOs coming out !

finish and open Forgotten Realms servers...next to eberon servers---tie up any developemental loose ends in eberon...eberon is complete

now you have something new in MMOs ( you can advertise ) 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS....ONE GAME

cha ching...

then........

Start working on Dragon Lance World....new viral marketing

3 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS....ONE GAME



You see a pattern developing

at all times, working the new world, finishing up the last world

will you have to keep adding new stuff to ..say eberon? or later forgotten realms....nope.


who needs more high end content when you have a brand new world to explore?

IF this was done right, IF you had the seed money to work this....down the road, you could take on WOW.

suggested order

Eberon (stuck with it)
Forgotten Realms
Dragon lance
Planescape
Ravenloft
Dark Sun

There are more as well.

................MANY WORLDS.............ONE GAME..........
....................DUNGEON and DRAGONS ....................
.................................ONLINE........... ...................

Don't chain up D+D's greatest strength.......ride it to glory
D+D = unlimited worlds

[GlassCannon]

WoW is one of the world's greatest tragedies.

I am amazed at the lack of intelligence required to continue playing said monstrosity.

Unfortunately, DDO has done some ... less than pleasant... things in the past, apparently with malicious intent... and has run its player base off to different game worlds. Some will be back, some will not.

DDO needs first and foremost a better New Player Welcoming Kit, expanded all the way to Level 3. Most new players run with some vets, refuse to ask questions, and get lost in dungeons and yelled at. Some, however, meet folks like me from a guild called DRAGON on a server formerly known as Mabar. We were ushered into DDO with red carpet, albeit with a surprise Guild Invite upon character creation. We were taught to be personable with people, hand our items down, even to complete strangers, and to answer questions as best we could at all times without anger or malice.


We are not losing players so quickly as we are alienating new people. WoW has a rather sizeable cult that does nothing but help people get addicted. I use the word 'cult' properly in this case. They literally have nothing better to do.



We are competing psychologically with other game environments. DDO itself has an excellent premise, but it is up to the community to keep other people interested. With no people, there is no business. People are customers, players, developers and engineers, advertisers, secretaries... everyone. We all need to see things in a positive manner if we are to see DDO lurch back up out of the MMO rut and back into the limelight. For a short while DDO was competing with WoW fairly well, but the Dev Team was new to Mass Psychology, and translating D&D into a computerized format.

Again, throwing the name of a sprawling filthy giant that ought to be killed in comparison with a beautiful and refined world(albeit smaller than the disgustingly large behemoth) is much the same as comparing yourself to a heap of fecal matter that everyone seems to enjoy. Our struggle is not a Financial one, though it does directly affect finances. It is not a coding problem, though coding is directly involved. We have a People problem, and it is more on the Player side than the Developer side. It's a game, yes, but that doesn't mean we have the right to kick new players to the curb, leaving them cold in the rain, wondering why they wasted their money on this wicked game full of seemingly mute and exceedingly angry individuals with little to no sense of humor.

TL;DR : People are being too mean to newbies and it is killing DDO. Stop being mean, people.




The new games, unless funded by Grants and Investors, should not be considered until DDO is salvaged or scrapped.

[fatherpirate]

I feel for you..I see where your coming from.

Having the current customer base get a 'new perspective' might help cut down a few internal losses
and is worth doing...but it doesn't treat the big problem.

We need to have NON-CUSTOMERS develope a new perspective on the game and become customers.

EBERON ! .............doesn't sell

Dungeon and Dragons ! .....sells IF PROPERLY ADVERTISED <<< caps are for turbine

[Borror0]

EBERON ! .............doesn't sell

Dungeon and Dragons ! .....sells IF PROPERLY ADVERTISED <<< caps are for turbine

D&D sells, regardless of the setting. It could be FR and we wouldn't have any much more subscribers.
And if you want to complain about advertisement, well Turbine is doing their best. It's Atari that is to blame.

[Xaxx]

ok couple probs, now im a 2nd ed guy myself never really played 3rd pnp, so while i would LOVE to see some of the other worlds come to fruition (darksun is my all time favorite setting), its not gonna happen, they're not gonna receate games that have been dead for 10 years now (darksuns been dead longer, ravenloft and planescape close, dragonlance as a campaign setting never got anywhere after the original mods released)

Also consider that going into 4th the only 2 active worlds are eberon and fr (and man oh man have they taken the hose to fr, 100 years have gone by and what 50% of the world went kaputs, waterdeep and such is trashed)

Also... how much creative control do they have over eberron, we're on the one continent thats not really flushed out, where could they go like that in fr?... no where unless you wanna go to kara-tur (dont remember spelling right off the top of my head) or such.

if they made a 4th edition fr game based on ddo, people would moan and complain that fr has changed so much, if they make a 3.0/3.5 version people complain that its not current.

Also the most important thing that has to be considered in eberron v fr for design....

Eberron is wizards and baker... thats pretty much it, no other middle men wanting their cut of money

Fr.... you've got wizards and... holy blue **** thats alot of authors and creators who will each want their creative cut for what everyone would want to see... couldnt have an fr game without the underdark... whew that wouldnt be pretty.

This has been hashed over and over and over and OVER since ddo was announced as being in eberron rather then fr... people once a month atleast put up a ddo should be fr topic... and y ou should have seen some of the moaning and complaining on mmog boards when it was announced it was eberron instead of fr. Its not gonna change, and even if an fr game was in the works... considering mmo dev time any more (2-3 years) it wont be around for a loooooooong time.

(if your really itching for another mmo based off pnp, warhammer drops this winter)

[Deriaz]

Sounds like a waste of time to me. (Not to sound blunt or anything, but. . . Ok, maybe it's blunt. But it's what I thought.)

Some people are only interested in one campaign. Using myself as an example, I could never get into Forgotten Realms. I haven't been playing since the start of it, so when I tried to jump in, there was so much storyline and so many locations to learn that I couldn't play -- it was too overwhelming. I refuse to play it, now, mainly because it feels too linear to me: All this stuff happened, it's common knowledge, and most DMs I played with at public games told me that they were things my character should know already.

It was like I wasn't allowed any freedom or anything. Which is why I like Eberron, cause it's like. . . There was this big war, using Warforged. Now a country turned into a wasteland. . . Uuuuhh. . . Ok. Go from there. Oh, and there's a weird continent to the south.

Just me, but I like that.

Plus, having to get all the licensing for these other campaigns, and the development time. . . Just doesn't sound worth it. Especially when there are other good games out there that already covered some campaigns well. (Temple of Elemental Evil for the PC comes to mind.)

Just my two copper.

-D

[Gornin]

Too bad WoTC killed FR. And 4E is DnD in name only.

[Grimdiegn]

Eberon fanboys...take you medication..and please refrain from your usual posting.

I stopped reading there. Maybe you should take a look in the mirror next time before posting.

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle...

[Arnya]

Trust me, I have bent over backwards on the whole advertising thing.

I have been banned from the Atari forums but not before being flamed by obnoxious Atari fanbois who much prefer Dragonball Z and pacman remakes to a thinking person's game...

Turbine is doing the best they can via MMO sites and their reviews....

And forget FR, Bioware has the license so Turbine CAN'T use it...

[Rav'n]

Call me old school... (well not REEEEALLLY old School) But I would jump to the FR game in a heart beat!.
That's not to say I'm not having fun in Stormreach.

As far as the time 'gone by and the world decimated' thing...? COOL!! That would solve most of the questions I would have about basing an MMO off FR.

[Tin_Dragon]

FR is licensed elsewhere, Turbine can't touch it.

Turbine's translation and what they have done to (not with) the Eberron setting tells me that IF they could do FR or any other D&D setting with a LARGER core fan base, then Turbine HQ would have been burned to the ground shortly after the enhancement system re vamp.

FR is TOO BIG and has too many (already broken/unbalanced) options. Turbine cant get the Core races/classes/PrCs/Feats/Skills in the game now, and you want them to try thier hand at a setting with at LEAST 10X the content Eberron has? You would be setting yourself up for a big upset.

[moorewr]

WoW, just WoW. Talk about a proposal that would kill DDO.

[Darkwolf]

Huh? Wha... Forgotten Realms?

Pass.

There are any number of worlds I would rather play in, Eberron happens to be one of them.
Thank you for your time.

[MysticTheurge]

Forgotten Realms fanboys...take you medication..and please refrain from your usual posting.

Fixed.

Oh, and Eberron has two Rs.

[TommyBoy]

fatherpirate i think what you are asking would be a double edge sword.

Fist FR and the other older realms are very familure with lots to pull from. huge fan base to attract. but then they also would not have the room to ablib when they need to.

or they have eberron which is newer not alot known about it, and a good way to build on the realm and include players. Even kieth Baker as changed some of the stuff to reflect ddo. Such as kobolds in the sewers of Stormreach.

I'm not a Eberron fan boy just a d&d fan and I'm kinda glad they didnt go with FR (though DarkSun might have been interesting Halfgiants ftw)

[Yaga_Nub]

Eberon fanboys...take you medication..and please refrain from your usual posting.

If wizards 'pushed' eberon as the setting for the first DDO world, Turbine should sue them for damages and losses.

......


Wow, I've been waiting on these words of wisdom from someone that's been around since April 2008.

[Rav'n]

Just because someone's only been on the board since April doesn't mean he hassn't been playing the game longer. I only got on the board a month or so back... had a Forum ID for much longer and been playing the game longer still.

Does that mean my (or FP's) opinion counts less than someone who logged in on Beta blast off?

The OP has an opinion, he posted it. Most of the posts replying have a different opinion. They posted as well. In the Real world, we call that communication. Just imagine if Orville and Wilber listened to everyone who told them "No... that's a stupid idea!"

[moorewr]

Just because someone's only been on the board since April doesn't mean he hassn't been playing the game longer. I only got on the board a month or so back... had a Forum ID for much longer and been playing the game longer still.

Does that mean my (or FP's) opinion counts less than someone who logged in on Beta blast off?

The OP has an opinion, he posted it. Most of the posts replying have a different opinion. They posted as well. In the Real world, we call that communication. Just imagine if Orville and Wilber listened to everyone who told them "No... that's a stupid idea!"

Two comments:


No, when you joined has little bearing on how much their comments count. The OP can choose to devalue his intellectual currency all on his own if he wishes.
Nobody thought building an airplane was a stupid idea in 1903. The Wrights had plenty of competition here and in Europe. Sorry for the historical pedantry.

[Deragoth]

I still dislike Eberron. However, like others have said, FR was not available. Also, as others have said, since it's still being fleshed out, WotC and Turbine can collaborate on new content.


Wow, I've been waiting on these words of wisdom from someone that's been around since April 2008.

I think you need to turn in your internet card for the day, and log off. You are not your join date.

[moorewr]

In death.. members of Project Mayhem DO have names. His is Robert Paulson.

[Petro]

His name is Robert Paulson

[Deragoth]

In death.. members of project mayhem DO have names. His is Robert Paulson.

That's a man-card violation. :D

At least in the movie... Don't have the book in front of me.

Thread derail complete.

[Pellegro]

This is all pipe-dreams since it will never happen, but I'd *LOVE* to see DDO-2 set in FR.

The FR world is so well known, so developed, so full of iconic characters and places and guilds and sects ....

It would really give them a launching point, similar to how LOTRO used the Tolkien source materials, upon which to base a really really cool MMO.

If you've played LOTRO - imagine a similar format here, but each chapter is dealing with different iconic FR groups or interests, and you're travelling across the entire world of FR ...

It would be quite incredible. Incredible indeed.

Oh well, pipe-dream is over. Back to work.

[roadkill525]

wizards pushed ddo into eberon cause it was there latest thing and it was a marketing tool. wizards is now setting up an online table top where people can pay 15 a month to have access to it. to use it you still need to buy the handbooks, you still need to have a DM doing all the work of thinking things up. just a place to meet online and play, great idea... cept what rules are built into it are going to be the 4.0 ruleset, agan wizards pushing agenst the fanbase to make a proffit. I've been wondering why they don;t sell a game like this... but not with a monthly fee, one where you could buy the diferent mission books or campains to play with out a DM, or just buy the game and have yer own DM do all the work

[Yaga_Nub]

Does that mean my (or FP's) opinion counts less than someone who logged in on Beta blast off?

Yes.


j/k btw and you'll notice that I didn't use "playing," I used "around" (meaning around on the forums).

Almost everything has been rehashed ad nausem here so if you're just coming on to forums it would be at least nice to see someone do a search first before posting. Then at least you can start with what has been said and then add your opinion to it.

[moorewr]

The mention of an "Internet card" reminds me of way back when we wired our dorms.. it was 1997, so most parents had NO CLUE about LANs and all that. We'd promoted that we were proviiding the service free, and sent out plenty of helpful sheets about network cards and the like, which were ignored..

So picture me in a dorm room trying to help a student with some beat up 286 (and of course nothing had a built-in Ethernet jack then).. I'm explaining that they need to buy a network card for the PC before it can connect to the network, and the parent jabs a defiant finger in my face, yelling "BUY a card?! You said this was a FREE SERVICE!!"

Yeah, you got me, there, ma'am. :rolleyes:

[Rav'n]

I'm as lazy as the next guy when it comes to searching the forums yaga.... something about, froum surfing, ddo and that thing called work.... al at the same time....


currently running Bobthesword while posting here and waiting for a call from a customer...... :eek:

[Gornin]

This is all pipe-dreams since it will never happen, but I'd *LOVE* to see DDO-2 set in FR.

The FR world is so well known, so developed, so full of iconic characters and places and guilds and sects ....
<snip>

Unfortunately, this is the exact reason WoTC stated to justify the evisceration of FR.

[Gornin]

wizards pushed ddo into eberon cause it was there latest thing and it was a marketing tool. wizards is now setting up an online table top where people can pay 15 a month to have access to it. to use it you still need to buy the handbooks, you still need to have a DM doing all the work of thinking things up. just a place to meet online and play, great idea... cept what rules are built into it are going to be the 4.0 ruleset, agan wizards pushing agenst the fanbase to make a proffit. I've been wondering why they don;t sell a game like this... but not with a monthly fee, one where you could buy the diferent mission books or campains to play with out a DM, or just buy the game and have yer own DM do all the work


That's why many of us are calling it $th ed. instead of 4th ed.

[Yaga_Nub]

I'm as lazy as the next guy when it comes to searching the forums yaga.... something about, froum surfing, ddo and that thing called work.... al at the same time....


currently running Bobthesword while posting here and waiting for a call from a customer...... :eek:

Hey I'm in management and I still surf the forums during work.... usually in the middle of meetings (even ones that I'm supposed to be running :))

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

If you've played LOTRO - imagine a similar format here, but each chapter is dealing with different iconic FR groups or interests, and you're travelling across the entire world of FR ...


um, no thanks, one WoW clone from turbine is enough, I wouldnt play a DDO if it was turned into a LOTRO style game.

[Gornin]

Fixed.

Oh, and Eberron has two Rs.

At least WoTC listened to the Eberron fans when they objected to the changes they were going to make. FR fans just got ignored.

I am happy for those that like Eberron that they are getting what they want, and I agree that he shouldn't have stated it that way.

[Borror0]

um, no thanks, one WoW clone from turbine is enough, I wouldnt play a DDO if it was turned into a LOTRO style game.

I wouldn't play DDO if it'd be 'click and wait'. And no, pressing 47586 keys while standing still and killing a mob is still 'click and wait' for me.

[Kalari]

FatherPirate, ive seen many of your threads and alot of times I agree with your ideas. But this will not be one of the times. Ive played D&D for a few years now and I to enjoy the FR settings, love them in many of the single player games I have to. But I get why DDO did not incorporate it into this game. Passionate players are no new thing, heck some of the pnp games Ive been apart of had some of the most vocalist players in the world. Ya know the types that will nitpick (wonder if any of them are playing this game). Either way its passionate players like that, that would make a MMO using the FR setting impossible to impliment. Not because its hard to create the lands or characters, but because if its not done exactly the way they want it, its gonna be a slap in the face. Would I play an mmo using that setting or Darksun or any of the others ive had fun in sure. But as someone who never played in the Ebberon setting coming to this game gave me a D&D adventure from a new perspective. And seeing how I cant pnp right now on a regular basis this helps my fix for grouping with a party and adventuring in challenging quests. So while I respect your want to see a Forgotten Realms MMO I just dont think DDO should be it. Its easy to knock the setting specially with lack of the core races and still missing classes, but if you look at it from a new perspective I think DDO has been very revolutionary and quite fun. I just wanted to voice why I dont want to see DDO go the way of FR. Its not because I dont think it can be done, I just dont think it would ever be done right for the most passionate and it would cause more player frustration then all the bugs and other issues we face right now. But thats just my humble opinion better go getting the stink eye for holding up people lol.

[Gornin]

FatherPirate, ive seen many of your threads and alot of times I agree with your ideas. But this will not be one of the times. Ive played D&D for a few years now and I to enjoy the FR settings, love them in many of the single player games I have to. But I get why DDO did not incorporate it into this game. Passionate players are no new thing, heck some of the pnp games Ive been apart of had some of the most vocalist players in the world. Ya know the types that will nitpick (wonder if any of them are playing this game). Either way its passionate players like that, that would make a MMO using the FR setting impossible to impliment. Not because its hard to create the lands or characters, but because if its not done exactly the way they want it, its gonna be a slap in the face. Would I play an mmo using that setting or Darksun or any of the others ive had fun in sure. But as someone who never played in the Ebberon setting coming to this game gave me a D&D adventure from a new perspective. And seeing how I cant pnp right now on a regular basis this helps my fix for grouping with a party and adventuring in challenging quests. So while I respect your want to see a Forgotten Realms MMO I just dont think DDO should be it. Its easy to knock the setting specially with lack of the core races and still missing classes, but if you look at it from a new perspective I think DDO has been very revolutionary and quite fun. I just wanted to voice why I dont want to see DDO go the way of FR. Its not because I dont think it can be done, I just dont think it would ever be done right for the most passionate and it would cause more player frustration then all the bugs and other issues we face right now. But thats just my humble opinion better go getting the stink eye for holding up people lol.

I have to agree with you, even being a long time FR player and DM. Some FR lore people are some of the worst when it comes to this.

[Impaqt]

Eberon fanboys...take you medication..and please refrain from your usual posting.

If wizards 'pushed' eberon as the setting for the first DDO world, Turbine should sue them for damages and losses.

Ok, we all love D+D so why are the servers empty? Most D+D players hate eberon or don't even knows it exists.

OK turbine, wanna make this work or not?

If not, fine, sell the IP.


If you do, hire a bunch more developers, get some seed money, and get to work developing a world creation engine
that can create DDO worlds, compeditive graphics, works in 3 axis (x/y/z)

also

finish filling in the missing classes, races, weapon, spells, feats up to 20th lvl ect... from the 3.5 players handbooks...yesterday

THEN

while keeping eberon going, build Forgotten Realms world...using current game mechanics
Run new ads..........start viral marketing.........get the word out...something DIFFERENT in MMOs coming out !

finish and open Forgotten Realms servers...next to eberon servers---tie up any developemental loose ends in eberon...eberon is complete

now you have something new in MMOs ( you can advertise ) 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS....ONE GAME

cha ching...

then........

Start working on Dragon Lance World....new viral marketing

3 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS....ONE GAME



You see a pattern developing

at all times, working the new world, finishing up the last world

will you have to keep adding new stuff to ..say eberon? or later forgotten realms....nope.


who needs more high end content when you have a brand new world to explore?

IF this was done right, IF you had the seed money to work this....down the road, you could take on WOW.

suggested order

Eberon (stuck with it)
Forgotten Realms
Dragon lance
Planescape
Ravenloft
Dark Sun

There are more as well.

................MANY WORLDS.............ONE GAME..........
....................DUNGEON and DRAGONS ....................
.................................ONLINE........... ...................

Don't chain up D+D's greatest strength.......ride it to glory
D+D = unlimited worlds

I can only assume you have no idea how Game Licensing works, or how the different campaign settings are handles in PnP.

First and Foremost.

These....

Planescape
Ravenloft
Dark Sun

Do not, FOr all practical Purposes, Exist anymore. Of course, Peopl can still play personal games with those rulesets and layout, but WotC no longs supports them. THey no longer Licenses out the ability for anyoen tomake any new games based on those Campaign Settings. There ar eno new Modules, There are no new Add on rulebooks, and ther ei sno active developement.

and second, You simply cannot take an Ebberon based character and plop him into Dragonlance or FOrgotten Realms. THe rules are modified, the races are different, the class structuires are different. They are al based on the same overall ruleset, but they are each individual worlds.

ANd Third, Turbine doesnt have a License to create Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance based games. They Bought Ebberon. Maybe WotC Gave them a Reallysweet deal onthe Ebberon Licence becasue no one (To my Knowleged anyway) had bought one for an online game. Maybe a FR or DL License wasnt available due to the fact that other companies currently enjoy those licenses.

The only Patern I see lately is you going off the deep end. Are you having fun palying this game even? Every post you make seems to be about making substantial changes to the game.... You need to realize thats NOT gonna happen. Take a break dude. Recharge your batteries.

[In_Like_Flynn]

If Dungeons and Dragons can't sell it, the choice of worlds isn't going to make much of a difference.

[DoctorWhofan]

Eberon fanboys...take you medication..and please refrain from your usual posting.

If wizards 'pushed' eberon as the setting for the first DDO world, Turbine should sue them for damages and losses.

Ok, we all love D+D so why are the servers empty? Most D+D players hate eberon or don't even knows it exists.

OK turbine, wanna make this work or not?

If not, fine, sell the IP.


If you do, hire a bunch more developers, get some seed money, and get to work developing a world creation engine
that can create DDO worlds, compeditive graphics, works in 3 axis (x/y/z)

also

finish filling in the missing classes, races, weapon, spells, feats up to 20th lvl ect... from the 3.5 players handbooks...yesterday

THEN

while keeping eberon going, build Forgotten Realms world...using current game mechanics
Run new ads..........start viral marketing.........get the word out...something DIFFERENT in MMOs coming out !

finish and open Forgotten Realms servers...next to eberon servers---tie up any developemental loose ends in eberon...eberon is complete

now you have something new in MMOs ( you can advertise ) 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS....ONE GAME

cha ching...

then........

Start working on Dragon Lance World....new viral marketing

3 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS....ONE GAME



You see a pattern developing

at all times, working the new world, finishing up the last world

will you have to keep adding new stuff to ..say eberon? or later forgotten realms....nope.


who needs more high end content when you have a brand new world to explore?

IF this was done right, IF you had the seed money to work this....down the road, you could take on WOW.

suggested order

Eberon (stuck with it)
Forgotten Realms
Dragon lance
Planescape
Ravenloft
Dark Sun

There are more as well.

................MANY WORLDS.............ONE GAME..........
....................DUNGEON and DRAGONS ....................
.................................ONLINE........... ...................

Don't chain up D+D's greatest strength.......ride it to glory
D+D = unlimited worlds

Sueing Atari would be more correct. Sueing the person that grants you the licence in the first place is silly.

E B E R R O N

...which, by the way, doesn't have famous people like Drizz'it and Rasilin (sp?) running around makes for more flexiblity and imagination by of the Devs and players, especially RP ones. FR, outside it is licensed to another company (not sure but it is licenced) is rigid world. TOo many of us have followed Drizz'it around and would be nitpicking, ala LoTRO.

I would rather them continue to fix and enhance the world they have been creating, vice spend time and energy on another.

DDO's fanbase is pretty solid, there is always new people in the harbor, and I think it has the best ratios of returning players. Nothing has "killed" DDO and players who give away everything and turned their back many times end up returning.

Turbine has added to the Eberron world, fleshing out more than what there is in the manuals. More recent manuals have added bits and pieces of the MMO in it, so we, as players in a small way are influencing Wizards of the Coast. I do not know about the rest of you, I think that's kinda cool.

Is there room for change, yes. However, DDO is pretty good as is, and while I love to visit Icewind Dale, I'm afraid I'd get angry that they placed Driz'zit's cave in the wrong place. THen again, I'm like that book-based movies.

[maddong]

Greyhawk?

[Hokiewa]

Greyhawk?

Indeed.....

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I have played D&D since the Basic boxed set. The Forgoten Realms means nothing to me. I never had so little imagination, or played with any DM who had so little imagination, to play in a prepared world. We always built our own. I suppose we stole the gods set out in the DMG/PH/D&D/etc but its not like Dritz existed or that any of the towns existed for us. Oh sure, module L2 that we decided to buy might have named a town, but we may or may not have kept that name in our campaign.

Maybe I'm alone. But personally it's the D&D rules and style of play, not the backdrop that matter to me.

I'm good with Eberon, I'd rather they pick somewhere almost unknown than somewhere that is know so that people can complain "they got it wrong" or "he'd never say that".

[MysticTheurge]

First and Foremost.

These....

Planescape
Ravenloft
Dark Sun

Do not, FOr all practical Purposes, Exist anymore. Of course, Peopl can still play personal games with those rulesets and layout, but WotC no longs supports them.

Not so much with the truthiness. Any more:


Oh and by the way, Greyhawk, Ravenloft and Dark Sun are definately getting 4e campaigns down the line as well as Planescape and Spelljammer (which they just started working out). They assured us that we can look forward to most of the old campaign setting being remade, and mentioned the above by name.

Relatively recent news. Or rumor anyway. Source here (http://www.dragonavenue.com/dnd/post/more_4th_edition_info_from_tanus/) but I'm sure if you look around more you can find more on the topic.

[Kalari]

Sueing Atari would be more correct. Sueing the person that grants you the licence in the first place is silly.

E B E R R O N

...which, by the way, doesn't have famous people like Drizz'it and Rasilin (sp?) running around makes for more flexiblity and imagination by of the Devs and players, especially RP ones. FR, outside it is licensed to another company (not sure but it is licenced) is rigid world. TOo many of us have followed Drizz'it around and would be nitpicking, ala LoTRO.

I would rather them continue to fix and enhance the world they have been creating, vice spend time and energy on another.

DDO's fanbase is pretty solid, there is always new people in the harbor, and I think it has the best ratios of returning players. Nothing has "killed" DDO and players who give away everything and turned their back many times end up returning.

Turbine has added to the Eberron world, fleshing out more than what there is in the manuals. More recent manuals have added bits and pieces of the MMO in it, so we, as players in a small way are influencing Wizards of the Coast. I do not know about the rest of you, I think that's kinda cool.

Is there room for change, yes. However, DDO is pretty good as is, and while I love to visit Icewind Dale, I'm afraid I'd get angry that they placed Driz'zit's cave in the wrong place. THen again, I'm like that book-based movies.

Glad to know im not the only one like that, I cringe when a book I like is made into a movie, specially since I get my own idea of how the characters should be like, then watch hollywood destroy and remake them into some psuedo P.C. character that everyone can relate to save the people who actually liked the characters the way they are written by the author! LOL see I can get passionate over something like that I can only imagine how a version of FR done wrong by an MMO would get me. And im sure there are waaayy worst out there that would light these forums up if something like this was implimented and not done their way. Its the problem in a nut shell I call it Fanitis, and super Fanitis. Basically those who are so hard core for things one way they wont even open their minds towards a variation on a topic they love. And Dr. Whofan not calling ya one of those *hugs* just using what you said as a example of someone like me who suffers from slight Fanitis. I can only imagine how a super one would behave and that reason enough is why I dont want to see DDO go the way of the Forgotten Realms or any of the other settings that the OP suggested since ive campaigned in those settings and know what id like and if I didnt see them id be unhappy indeed.

[moorewr]

Sueing Atari would be more correct. Sueing the person that grants you the licence in the first place is silly.

E B E R R O N

...which, by the way, doesn't have famous people like Drizz'it and Rasilin (sp?) running around makes for more flexiblity and imagination by of the Devs and players, especially RP ones. FR, outside it is licensed to another company (not sure but it is licenced) is rigid world. TOo many of us have followed Drizz'it around and would be nitpicking, ala LoTRO.

Raistlin? Google says yes!

Totally agreed on the rest, in addition to which I'm an Eberron fanboi anyway.

PS: Count the shadows.

[fatherpirate]

From all I have heard and seen.

Turbine dumped all thier money any resources into LOTR, then took what was left
and tried to finish work on DDO to get it out of thier hair.

And if you compare the quality of the 2 games....it shows.

They should have just sold the IP of DDO.

np, I will just play the current version, and NWN1

Sooner or later Wizards will need money and they will sell an IP to a company with the funds and time to do it right.

Hope everyone has fun with monks, I might try one for giggles and maybe druid in 3 or 4 years from now :-/

[moorewr]

From all I have heard and seen.

Turbine dumped all thier money any resources into LOTR, then took what was left
and tried to finish work on DDO to get it out of thier hair.

And if you compare the quality of the 2 games....it shows.

I agree! When are they going to give LotRO some love? I really feel sorry for their players.. stuck with that antiquated combat system...

[Impaqt]

They should have just sold the IP of DDO.

np, I will just play the current version, and NWN1

Sooner or later Wizards will need money and they will sell an IP to a company with the funds and time to do it right.



Ok, WHats an IP?

[MysticTheurge]

From all I have heard and seen.

Turbine dumped all thier money any resources into LOTR, then took what was left
and tried to finish work on DDO to get it out of thier hair.

And if you compare the quality of the 2 games....it shows.

You may want to put on one of these.

http://planetquo.net/tinfoil%20(550%20x%20374).jpg

[Kalari]

You may want to put on one of these.

http://planetquo.net/tinfoil%20(550%20x%20374).jpg

Those are the ugliest hats ive ever seen, theyd better not be apart of the new gear..though most of my girls were tiara's well the only tiara that looks halfway decent.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Man every time someone signs up, it's like 2006 all over again.

not enough content
kill count sucks
eberron sucks
casual players get the shaft
my [favorite class] needs some love
when are druids coming out

at least they fixed evasion in heavy armor .. thank god

[Illuminati]

Ever notice that when a new game comes out, we get some 'new poster' who starts forum fun?

[MysticTheurge]

Man every time someone signs up, it's like 2006 all over again.

Heh.

I blame Turbine for pruning all the old threads and thus making it so we can't just link people back to the original discussions on these topics.

[Borror0]

I blame Turbine for pruning all the old threads and thus making it so we can't just link people back to the original discussions on these topics.

Couldn't they put the discussions in achives?

[Kalanth]

Eberon fanboys...take you medication..and please refrain from your usual posting.

You know that starting an argument with an insult is the fastest way to loose the argument?

Now, onto the point. Is it had to believe that there are people that hate the Realms and like other worlds? I, personally, am a huge Eberron fan and love that the game takes place in a great setting. And why Forgotten Realms? What about Darksun, Dragonlance, Planescape, Mystara, Spelljammer, Greyhawk, or the many other worlds that have come and gone during the time of D&D? The best course of action would have been for Turbine to develop a brand new setting, but it is honestly easier to use one that exsists which is why you dont see people like Turbine, Atari, or Bioware making a new world. Eberron was only a fledgling world at the timeof DDO's launch and a company knows a PR chance when they see one so Wizards pushed Eberron for the game. It's not a bad decision even though the rich world flavor is not completely represented or represented well in DDO but it does have sparks of Eberron that keep me going.

I hate FR, but even I acknowledge that if you did make an MMO out of the Realms you would need something of a much larger scale to represent the world properly. It is larger and with more history than Eberron has been able to develop. Wizards has been advancing the FR time line but fans argued against that for Eberron (and won.) If you wanted to do it right then something like a mix between DDO and LoTRO would be best, as the world would be massive and allow for a decent combat engine to represent the rules. I doubt that Turbine will be undertaking such an endevour, but there is a future out there that is unexplored so who knows.

In regards to Eberron sales neither you nor I is on the board of Wizards of the Coast, nor any portion of the Sales team, Advertising, or R&D. As a result, we do not have access to the sales figures of the Eberron line as Wizards is not a public company. There is no way to be certain that Eberron is or is not selling well unless you work in some high level position among Wizards or Hasbro. However, if you have some factual information to show that Eberron is not doing well in stores please let us know.

[Gornin]

Eberron does better than FR in the 25 and under crowd. FR is more popular with us old timers. Sales figures from several different sources support this as well as personal experience. Check Amazon for sales in general, but remember that many of us old schoolers don't buy online as much as the younger crowd does, so Eberron will look much more popular than FR.

[Darkwolf]

Most of the grognards that I play with would prefer Greyhawk. But, since that is irrelevent to this thread they pretty much all prefer Eberron to The Realms as well.

So, you don't speak for all of us old timers.

[Kalanth]

Most of the grognards that I play with would prefer Greyhawk. But, since that is irrelevent to this thread they pretty much all prefer Eberron to The Realms as well.

So, you don't speak for all of us old timers.

Good point, Darkwolf. One should never speak for another as it often results in misinformation or misrepresentation.

[DoctorWhofan]

I have played D&D since the Basic boxed set. The Forgoten Realms means nothing to me. I never had so little imagination, or played with any DM who had so little imagination, to play in a prepared world. We always built our own. I suppose we stole the gods set out in the DMG/PH/D&D/etc but its not like Dritz existed or that any of the towns existed for us. Oh sure, module L2 that we decided to buy might have named a town, but we may or may not have kept that name in our campaign.

Maybe I'm alone. But personally it's the D&D rules and style of play, not the backdrop that matter to me.

I'm good with Eberon, I'd rather they pick somewhere almost unknown than somewhere that is know so that people can complain "they got it wrong" or "he'd never say that".

amen

That is us, too. We created our own worlds.

[DoctorWhofan]

From all I have heard and seen.

Turbine dumped all thier money any resources into LOTR, then took what was left
and tried to finish work on DDO to get it out of thier hair.

And if you compare the quality of the 2 games....it shows.

They should have just sold the IP of DDO.

np, I will just play the current version, and NWN1

Sooner or later Wizards will need money and they will sell an IP to a company with the funds and time to do it right.

Hope everyone has fun with monks, I might try one for giggles and maybe druid in 3 or 4 years from now :-/

So, if everybody agreed with you, you'd stay? Or were you hoping for a mass exodus form the game?

[DoctorWhofan]

I agree! When are they going to give LotRO some love? I really feel sorry for their players.. stuck with that antiquated combat system...

-snort!- Thanks, just what I needed, a chocolate shake up my nose! We being serious now!!:p

[Azoralq]

I just want a world that doesn't have +6 stat items, and +9 stat crafts dropping out of the sky. D&D was never this magic hungry..save for Ebberon...I hate Dark Sun and Planescape..but if it meant less Monty Haul uber weapons, I'd be there in a heart beat.

[Kalanth]

I just want a world that doesn't have +6 stat items, and +9 stat crafts dropping out of the sky. D&D was never this magic hungry..save for Ebberon...I hate Dark Sun and Planescape..but if it meant less Monty Haul uber weapons, I'd be there in a heart beat.

Eberron has a large basis of magic, that is true, but not in the Monty Haul way that DDO does. Thats a DM problem, not a setting problem. DDO ramped up the enemies, and then ramped up the equipment and general power of the characters (enhancements) to compensate with their first action.

In Eberron most of the high end NPC's are dead due to the last war, and the magic that is everywhere is the idea of technology growing up with magic and making usefull everyday items live everbright lanterns and elemental bound ships. It does not mean that every commoner and their children have Holy Avengers strapped to their hip like the DDO Stormreach community.

[deathknighx23]

Well since Atri like's to remake older game's maybe thats their key, making realm's that have been dead for the past 10yrs or so. Got to give the dev teams some credit though they kept the game alive this long even with all the complaints, maybe they have something planned and if not than hopefully they will soon, but by all mean they cant just recreate what they already jumped in to.If they make too many changes it could drive ppl away even faster than they would want to happen, no matter what someone will always complain about something cause you cant please everone, especially when it come's to D+D.:D

[rhynobuk]

I just want a world that doesn't have +6 stat items, and +9 stat crafts dropping out of the sky. D&D was never this magic hungry..save for Ebberon...I hate Dark Sun and Planescape..but if it meant less Monty Haul uber weapons, I'd be there in a heart beat.


Welcome to MMOs

[KristovK]

FR is probably my favorite of the campaign settings for D&D, but that would be due to owning the original boxed set and having DMed/DMs that use the given info as a base for our own works. The original boxed set is before the Avatars and Wild Magic and so on, so it's a vastly different FR, no where near as fleshed out and with lots of room for DMs to creatively populate.

Now..FR is so well known that I have personally created almost every major city and location in it for NWN servers and I've seen every single location ever mentioned in a module or novel created for NWN servers, along with every single personage mentioned as well, from the important people to the little boy who saw Drizzt pass by on the streets of Calimport..seriously, it's been done to DEATH and back for NWN worlds alone, there's nothing left for the Turbine team to do but cut/paste, and the gods forbid they screw up ANYTHING in the slightest manner...'what do you mean Tim the begger's eyes are green? Don't those idiot devs know his eyes are brown?'...really, it would be that bad and that stupid. Should have seen some of the comments we'd get for the NWN servers, and those twits weren't paying us or paying to play on our worlds.

I didn't like Eberron at first, but it's growing on me. It's new, it's definately unique in many aspects, and it's NOT the Monty Haul world we see in DDO, that's a result of the MMO mentality, you can see it in many threads on these forums right now, including many of your own posts fatherpirate, wanting more and more and more. A good DM in PnP would say 'ok, you want all that power..you got it...give me your character sheet...*sounds of paper ripping*...you are now a god..roll up a new character and shut up'. Turbine hasn't done that though, they should, but it would anger far too many of the MMO crowd who pay monthly subs, so it won't happen.

[fatherpirate]

Keep this MMO on life support will be a hell of a lot easier than SOE has proping up SWG

if the Developers can get the following in , in a 1 year timeframe..most folks will stick around

Druid
Artificer

halforc
halfelf
gnome

and a new mix of various dungeons here and there

maybe lvl 20 cap later


That would keep this afloat

this mmo kinda sits lower on my expectation scale than I would have expected for something as established as D+D
oh well, still fun enuff to play till something better shows up.

[dejafu]

Welcome to MMOs

This.

Put aside whatever gaming philosophies you may have had about tabletop D&D* - an MMO simply cannot maintain a sufficient client base without giving spiffy fat rewards for performing certain tasks over and over again. It's basic psychological conditioning that keeps people coming back to these games - perform a certain task often enough, and you get a reward. There's a very fine line at which point the reward no longer seems worth it, however, so you have to make sure that there are very real benefits to playing the game 10-20 hours a week as opposed to, say, 2-4.

That's what makes the world seem so "monty-haul" - it's not the availability of items from random loot as much as it is the time people are willing to invest to get those items. Imagine being able to play tabletop adventures as quickly and frequently as you do in an MMO environment, and you start to see how it's simply impossible to keep to any kind of conservative, purist, pre-3rd edition loot philosophy.


*Though it's worth noting that 3rd edition very much did make magic items much more common in ALL game worlds - they're factored in to determining what kind of threat you can take at any given level.

[Kalanth]

That would keep this afloat.

2 years ago, on the day of launch I believe, I remember hearing those exact words. Add this, that, and the other and this game will stay afloat. It's still here, people still play, and the developers are still developing. Those are all signs that at least someone out there is paying to play it... Oh, wait... We all are because we have forum access.

[fatherpirate]

Yes it is staying afloat....ranked number 10 on most ranking boards

better than SWG, most boards don't even list it.

DAOC is around 8, wow is 1 of course

I think eve is #2

there are many older games that are ranked higher...so something could have been done better here.

and if they come out with another D+D based MMO, they need to do better.

[Hvymetal]

Yes it is staying afloat....ranked number 10 on most ranking boards

better than SWG, most boards don't even list it.

DAOC is around 8, wow is 1 of course

I think eve is #2

there are many older games that are ranked higher...so something could have been done better here.

and if they come out with another D+D based MMO, they need to do better.

Luckily the ranking of other games means squat to me. So long as the game I love to play is still around & I still have people to group with, which it has been for two years even with horrible rankings and early reviews, I am happy. I guess I am one of those people not attracted by the Lexus & Britney Spears ohhh look I gotta have the shiniest most popular thing out there crowd ;)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I just want a world that doesn't have +6 stat items, and +9 stat crafts dropping out of the sky. D&D was never this magic hungry..save for Ebberon...I hate Dark Sun and Planescape..but if it meant less Monty Haul uber weapons, I'd be there in a heart beat.

That's not eberon's fault, that's our bad DM. The loot tables DDO build are WAY too rich. When I first joined the game the level cap was 10 and I heard that you actually had the hope of finding a +5 weapon, */hushed voice* or even a vorpal, at L10. That's down right insane. The D20 system requires a certain stinginess with loot. Many of the problems we have no in this game stem from the lootsanity caused by our poor DM. None of that however is the setting's fault.

[fatherpirate]

I hear ya.

Someone had a suggest a new magic item thread..so I listed a couple of things
None of them had above +5 stat

here come the ratings.....under powered
.....why did you limit it to +5 ??
.....has to be higher stats or it is just vender trash

...ect....ect.

Powergamers.... every game has them
well they are better than griefers

[Elsbet]

Keep this MMO on life support will be a hell of a lot easier than SOE has proping up SWG

if the Developers can get the following in , in a 1 year timeframe..most folks will stick around

Druid
Artificer

halforc
halfelf
gnome

and a new mix of various dungeons here and there

maybe lvl 20 cap later


That would keep this afloat

this mmo kinda sits lower on my expectation scale than I would have expected for something as established as D+D
oh well, still fun enuff to play till something better shows up.

Bah. I'll stay and they don't have to deliver druids, artificers, half-orcs, half-elves or gnomes. According to you and dozens of others who post, something better has shown up--several times. What release of what game is going to be the DDO killer this week?

I hear a new Dora the Explorer game is coming out. There'll be an exodus for sure because everyone knows cute little spanish speaking kids will kick a dragon's butt every day of the week and twice on Sundays. DOOM!!!!!1!!!11!! I say! DOOM!!!!1!!!111!!!! *melodramatic swoon*

Several of people I know have left for other games and they've come back. Some left for AoC (the latest DDO-killer) and were back TWO days after release because, and I quote, "It sucked."

The one thing you and all the other "this game stinks, turbine stinks and DOOM!!!!!1!!1 is coming" crowd leave out is the people. Most of us like being here because we like the people we play with and still manage to have fun, even on the 40th Water Works run.

Would it be awesome if Turbine could put out more content, less buggy code and more races more often? Of course. I'd especially like if if the lag would go away, pretty please and thank you.

Is what we have better than the vapid alternatives out there? You bet your artificer it is. This game will still be here in a year regardless of what the doomsayers prophesy.

[Yaga_Nub]

..... Most of us like being here because we like the people we play with and still manage to have fun, even on the 4000th Water Works run.....

Fixed that for you Els. :)

PS - I'm seriously on at least my 200th WW run but I love to reroll.

[Riddikulus]

I think developing DDO2/FR would be the fastest way to kill DDO1/Eberron. No real financial incentive for Turbine to kill one product for another.

I think a much better alternative would be to recycle some older "classic" modules into quests in DDO... Keep on the Borderlands, Tomb of Horrors/White Plume/Barrier Peaks, Vault of the Drow and Against the Giants added as quest chains would be a real fun addition to the game and don't require a new world.

They could even package those up as a DDO expansion for a few $$. I'd buy it.

[Yaga_Nub]

I think developing DDO2/FR would be the fastest way to kill DDO1/Eberron. No real financial incentive for Turbine to kill one product for another.

I think a much better alternative would be to recycle some older "classic" modules into quests in DDO... Keep on the Borderlands, Tomb of Horrors/White Plume/Barrier Peaks, Vault of the Drow and Against the Giants added as quest chains would be a real fun addition to the game and don't require a new world.

They could even package those up as a DDO expansion for a few $$. I'd buy it.

I've always thought that would be a great "expansion" for DDO. Taking all the classic quests and adding them to DDO would be a nice way to have a paid expansion without all the fuss about "not paying for core DnD stuff in an expansion!" that you get every time a paid expansion is mentioned.

[insania2016]

In order to properly implement Forgotten Realms you'd have to do a new engine to support dynamic content and NPC's with AI. A believable world and not this static stuff you see today.

Also, WoW is successful only because it is simple enough for your Grandma to log on and play. Mainstream gamers... There's not enough hard-core D&D role players to make Turbine money so they are changing the game to fit that mold. All you have to do is look at LoTR to see the direction the company is taking with games. LoTR is simply WoW with a Middle Earth skin.

WoW will eventaully train the mainstream the principles of RPGs in general. You will see an evolution as they will yearn for more beyond leveling and grinding. They will start to yearn for story and living worlds.

Age of Conan is a slow step in that direction. Vanguard was a painful step in that direction with player content. However Sony gimped the player content.

It's almost like gaming has gone the way of MTV. You got these cookie cutter games that a lot of people want to buy. Sure you add a little bell and whistle but its all the same:

1 - kill 30 bogons
2 - collect 30 bogon gongoks
3 - escort me to the castle of doom
4 - wash rinse repeat

I originally switched to DDO because it was a bit different. However as time goes on I see more elements from these mainstream games creep in. That formula doesn't work simply because you have D&D in the title.

Wurmonline is the other end of the spectrum. Everything is player content so it is a little boring unless you like that sort of thing. I remember spending 3 hrs just trying to make a friggn' bowl so I can make food... that's another story.

When you see D&D you expect things like:

1 - access to all of the core races
2 - access to all of the core classes
3 - access to prestige classes
4 - access to all spells,psionics, and abilities
5 - the ability to climb a tree and shoot enemies with your bow
6 - the ability to pick a pocket
7 - the ability to break into a house and steal gold
8 - the ability to have a shop
9 - the ability to make swords
10 - the ability to have a keep or wizards tower
11 - the ability to explore every nook and cranie
12 - a believable world...

Basically a combination of elements from the Ultima (not online) series, The Witcher, Gothic series, Elderscrolls, Fallout, Arcanum, SSI D&D titles, NWN, etc. but set in a huge dynamic world with lots of people.

Today too many MMO's are just great big pretty Diablo type games.

[Gornin]

Most of the grognards that I play with would prefer Greyhawk. But, since that is irrelevent to this thread they pretty much all prefer Eberron to The Realms as well.

So, you don't speak for all of us old timers.

I wasn't. I was speaking of sales figures of FR to Eberron, and of general stats when comparing the 2. I only spoke about those who prefer FR, not everyone.

[Shadowblizmasta]

Yeah but no. Forgotten Realms is a fairly tired setting. Especially since they would probably end up going to the Sword Coast area. AGAIN. Like we have been doing in games since Baldur's Gate, or maybe even before it.

Also we wouldn't have the ultimate race if it was Forgotten Realms. The Warforged!