OK, I will be the goat. A paid expansion pack.

[Andora]

The forums are a fun read. Read them long enough and all topics will recycle. It is time to once again bring up a paid expansion.

For me, I feel that core races and classes should never be a part of a paid expansion. That is what updates are for.

I would like to see about 105 new dungeons large and small in ranges from 5th level to 20th level. That is seven dungeons for each level. That would be a huge boost in what we now have. Some of the new dungeons can be small ones scattered into old wilderness areas like the giant caves. Minor xp with loot.

About wilderness areas, add 5 new ones that cover levels 15 to 20, some should be woods and mountains not just a trip to hell.

Add a new town that would break up the one town world.

Add two new non-core classes and races. I do not care what.

Be creative with your packaging, make some of the new content deluxe and put in the base game for $10.00 extra. Make the expansion about $30.00

:D Now, time to amuse me and nit pick this thing to death. I do love you guys. ;)

[DelScorcho]

/signed. I wont even bring up the fact the online venders list the Accursed Assention expansion being upcoming, as we all know that was the desert.

[GlassCannon]

Make a DONATION to Turbine, and write it off your taxes.

More content, less money you have to give to the IRS later.

Win/Win.


They read the forums regularly, so they already have your "Requests for the usage of said money".

Make a donation. Srsly.

[DelScorcho]

Make a DONATION to Turbine, and write it off your taxes.

More content, less money you have to give to the IRS later.

Win/Win.


They read the forums regularly, so they already have your "Requests for the usage of said money".

Make a donation. Srsly.

I want to declare my cleric as a dependant.

[cdbd3rd]

Make a DONATION to Turbine, and write it off your taxes.

More content, less money you have to give to the IRS later.

Win/Win.


They read the forums regularly, so they already have your "Requests for the usage of said money".

Make a donation. Srsly.


*grin*

Turbine's a non-profit organization?!?


...that might explain a few things. ;)



(I already made my 'donation'. I didn't have long distance to call their 'people' when they double-charged us that one month way back whenever. :rolleyes:) :D

[Ghoste]

If it included enough new stuff, I wouldn't be opposed to a paid expansion.

[Shaamis]

I made a suggestions a LONG while back, with new races, classes, items, and feats, (but NOT adventure content) as a paid expansion, with six months later it becoming a free download.

No one liked it.

I think it would cause people to go into an uproar if they had to pay for a content expansion, but if you gave an expansion full of options, with a stipulation that paying for the expansion gave you a six-month head start, but non-payers would eventually get it, would be a good compromise. It would get some $$$$ back for additional development, and get the ball rolling for repeat expansions, more content, and happier customers.

i wish you all of the LUCK in the world with your latest request for an expansion.

[Deathseeker]

Just an idea...how about creating a couple of subscription levels...the more expensive one (maybe $5 more per month) gives you access to a couple of new races and classes. That way, everyone can run the same content together, but those who want to pay more can, while those who don't aren't forced to. New content (dungeons, etc) being part of a paid expansion is dangerous because those who don't pay the expansion will run out of content and leave. If you do it by race/class, those who choose not to buy into it may still hang around a while to group with those who do.

In other words, I think an optional upgrade that is race/class based has more chance of keeping players than something that requires paying for quests/dungeons. And DDO will live/die by the size of it's population.

Just a thought...I'm up for anything that gets us a big chunk of content all at once...

[Dariuss]

Well I sugegsted this before as an alternate to a paid expansion:

DDO Diamond Edition

"Contains the original adventures PLUS ALL 8 Expansions!"

All they'd have to do is put the updated client on one DVD, make some new box art, and get in on shelves. Price it at liek $14.99 and of course it includes the first month.

[Andora]

Make a DONATION to Turbine, and write it off your taxes.

More content, less money you have to give to the IRS later.

Win/Win.


They read the forums regularly, so they already have your "Requests for the usage of said money".

Make a donation. Srsly.

:D :D :D

[Borror0]

If it included enough new stuff, I wouldn't be opposed to a paid expansion.

What he said. I think it'd be a good way for Turbine to even get more new players.
WotC could help them getting the game more known though. They were hoping it'd be more of a success... how about getting people know about the game more?

I discovered DDO by luck. And I was living with a big D&D addict for a year.

[GlassCannon]

Well I sugegsted this before as an alternate to a paid expansion:

DDO Diamond Edition

"Contains the original adventures PLUS ALL 8 Expansions!"

All they'd have to do is put the updated client on one DVD, make some new box art, and get in on shelves. Price it at liek $14.99 and of course it includes the first month.

$24.99, since the DVDs aren't exactly free, and neither are the nice glossy boxes.

Again, I move for Donation, though I do like this idea. I don't like having to download content for 7 hours after I clean my HDD up.

[fatherpirate]

Expansion packs are tricky

Free ones are safe..they will not bite you

$ ones are risky

Here are the questions they need to ask before they try it

1. How many current customers will quit because of it ?
2. Will it attract new players that will stay?
3 How many customers will refuse to buy it?
4. How many will you sell ?
5. How much will it cost ?
6 How will it affect PR?

then they check many matrix's of it

is #1 bigger than #2 ? if so add to #5 ect..

trust me, they have done it...and it doesn't favor them right now
that is why we get the safe free ones

[Lorien_the_First_One]

If they add a paid expansion before bringing in the core classes and hitting L20 there will be a rebellion. You will lose people in large numbers. It's simply not worth it.

Post L20...maybe... but frankly if they needed more money for development maybe they shouldn't have just given all the committed membership a 33% lifetime fee discount...

[Kerrn_Siff]

... I think they should throw in a Gnome follower who runs around behind you carrying your personal banner if you pre-order the expansion...

seriously though I'd buy a paid expansion; Now or after level cap. I'd pay more for the monthly subscription too if it meant more content whether it be races/quests/feats/etc etc.

[BurnerD]

/signed

AT level 20 there shold be a paid expansion... and it should be huge.

I think it is probably the most effective way to get new players.

[Gennerik]

Since DnD technically ends at level 20, maybe you could release the beginnings of epic levels as a paid expansion. Then it would be just like buying the Epic Level Handbook to continue your adventures. Either that, or I'd vote for the paid expansion that gets released 6 months later as a free download. The repackaged game with all the modules to date for a small fee would be pretty nice as well. I'd probably even buy it just to save time in the future. Convenience goes a long way.

I think the most important thing about releasing paid-for content is the chance to remarket the game. It's hard to see any information about DDO anymore, and even harder still to find it on shelves of stores. The game has improved drastically since launch and the content available is much more robust. The ability to advertise about that could possibly draw in a number of new customers, which can be a good thing for us that are playing now.

[Gol]

Atari would never go for it. And until they file chapter 11 (which will be soon, hopefully), they hold the production contract. Otherwise, yeah, I'm all for it. It'll just never happen because of legal red tape.

[MysticTheurge]

Well I sugegsted this before as an alternate to a paid expansion:

DDO Diamond Edition

"Contains the original adventures PLUS ALL 8 Expansions!"

All they'd have to do is put the updated client on one DVD, make some new box art, and get in on shelves. Price it at liek $14.99 and of course it includes the first month.

This is the best (easiest and fastest) way to get DDO back on the shelves.

A paid expansion, while potentially a good idea, doesn't just happen. It would take a lot of work (and a lot of money).

[Kerrn_Siff]

A paid expansion, while potentially a good idea, doesn't just happen. It would take a lot of work (and a lot of money).


I would think that >90% of the current player base would pre-pre-pre-order such an expansion though. That would be one, maybe _two_ hundred people!! ;)

[moorewr]

This is the best (easiest and fastest) way to get DDO back on the shelves.

A paid expansion, while potentially a good idea, doesn't just happen. It would take a lot of work (and a lot of money).

Agreed on the game+modules respin.. I re-issue and new marketing would do wonders for them. Turbine could probably get away with waving some cash at Atari to get out of the contract, considering the state of Atari.

As far as a paid expansion goes, it is fraught with danger. It would have to involve much more quests/art/animation than the modules do, and asking the current player base to spend in excess of their subscriptions now.. well, iff the expansion didn't have a champagne reception it would be the last straw.

Anyway, although Turbine just raised a bundle of cash - $40 million - I assume that this is either to port LotRO to the console platforms, or to develop some new IP they've bought and have under wraps. If that's the case there's no money in the kitty to build the expansion pack.

[Umbra]

I'd like to see a paid expansion that implements the 4th edition rules and classes/abilities. Just my $.02 though, I am sure others would prefer lots of additional content.

[Borror0]

A paid expansion, while potentially a good idea, doesn't just happen. It would take a lot of work (and a lot of money).

You know the ironic part of this thread? The main opposition is Mr. Dal Quat himself.

[MysticTheurge]

You know the ironic part of this thread? The main opposition is Mr. Dal Quat himself.

Look, I'd love to see an expansion. And I've posted before what I would do in terms of making an expansion, if I were Turbine and could make an expansion.

But there's just no guarantee that they can make an expansion. And really, they know we want one. And I'm certainly not going to argue with people who want to make real constructive suggestions on what should go in any sort of potential expansions. But just saying (over and over) that they should make an expansion isn't really going to make a difference in whether they actually make one or not. The deciding factors really have nothing to do with whether the current player base thinks there should be an expansion or not.

I also have issue with the attitude that an expansion would be some sort of magical infusion of content, like it would be the amazing solution to the current sluggish release schedule and lower-than-before amounts of content coming out. It doesn't work like that. They still have to work on it. Someone still has to code it. The only way it could possibly actually work that way would be if they hired an entirely new team to make the expansion. And I think, realistically, we all know that's just not ever going to happen.

[Pyromaniac]

I think the vast majority of us would like to see an expansion....

Though come to think of it, with a 10 year plan for DDO there's got to be something coming to do for the next 8 years or so.

[Rouge]

Well I sugegsted this before as an alternate to a paid expansion:

DDO Diamond Edition

"Contains the original adventures PLUS ALL 8 Expansions!"

All they'd have to do is put the updated client on one DVD, make some new box art, and get in on shelves. Price it at liek $14.99 and of course it includes the first month.

with the in game bonus item being......... Kargon's Everfull Ham Bag, once per rest this bag will create a most wondrous meal. And just give it the tasty ham effect. I was going to say give us the birthday cake, but that would be pushing it unless you release this on the game's anniversary :)

[Petro]

Atari would never go for it. And until they file chapter 11 (which will be soon, hopefully), they hold the production contract. Otherwise, yeah, I'm all for it. It'll just never happen because of legal red tape.

"Atari, Inc. announced on April 30, 2008 that it intends to merge with its majority shareholder Infogrames Entertainment S.A. (“Infogrames”) which holds approximately 51.4% of Atari, Inc.’s common shares. Atari, Inc. believes that its delisting from The Nasdaq Stock Market will not affect the pending merger transaction."

It's happening sooner. I think Infagrames is Atari though. What would that mean for Turbine? Could they get another publisher?

[moorewr]

You know the ironic part of this thread? The main opposition is Mr. Dal Quat himself.

MT is Mr. Dal Quat?

[Vardak]

I've said it before I'll say it again. A paid expansion would carry its own costs and goals, and force a change in the business math. Turbine has done this in its history before and the result was not favorable for Asheron's call 2 which shut its doors fairly quickly after expansion release. It did work out better for AC1 but development of the expansion halted the normal development cycle long for far too long.

Now the idea of repackaging the current content simply to get boxes on shelves seems like a good idea but the distribution process isn't necessarily an inexpensive proposition. I'd point to the huge increase in press of late (along with the noticeable influx of players) and suggest the success of the current path should be aloud to continue.

Uggg I almost sound like a fanboi.

[fatherpirate]

How about this............change to the AO business model

Make DDO free......give it away, then......drumroll

while everyone is getting hooked on the game, quickly flesh out the last of the core stuff
Druids, half orcs, gnomes, pets.keep that free

Then....put out epic pack 1 (paid expansion)
and to use it you need to be a paid account or you can continue playing for free...without the epic stuff

then start work on Epic 2, by the time you hit epic 3...you make epic 1 free play


It works...it saved AO and gave them enuff money to produce AoC

[moorewr]

How about this............change to the AO business model

Make DDO free......give it away, then......drumroll

while everyone is getting hooked on the game, quickly flesh out the last of the core stuff
Druids, half orcs, gnomes, pets.keep that free

Then....put out epic pack 1 (paid expansion)
and to use it you need to be a paid account or you can continue playing for free...without the epic stuff

then start work on Epic 2, by the time you hit epic 3...you make epic 1 free play


It works...it saved AO and gave them enuff money to produce AoC


What would compel Turbine to give up ($10-15)x~35k per month already coming in? It would take more than the expectation that everybody (or even all of us plus a pile of new people) would spend money once on a paid expansion. Even if it costs $50, that's only the equivalent of a few motnhs of subscription. AO must have seen a serious subscription crash before they made it free.

[SeptaScarabae]

I'm still waiting on any news of Shifters.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I'd like to see a paid expansion that implements the 4th edition rules and classes/abilities. Just my $.02 though, I am sure others would prefer lots of additional content.

Thats a pretty much 100% rewrite of the game, no way.

[Borror0]

MT is Mr. Dal Quat?

MT mentioned an expention leading to Dal Quat countless times and even did a Huge thread about it.

[Accelerando]

MT mentioned an expention leading to Dal Quat countless times and even did a Huge thread about it.

If a Paid expansion = New Campaign set in Forgotten Realms then we could easily double the playerbase.

Maybe not the kind of players we want but at least its money for the devs to work with. :(

[fatherpirate]

What would compel Turbine to give up ($10-15)x~35k per month already coming in? It would take more than the expectation that everybody (or even all of us plus a pile of new people) would spend money once on a paid expansion. Even if it costs $50, that's only the equivalent of a few motnhs of subscription. AO must have seen a serious subscription crash before they made it free.

In the model, you have to go to a paid subscription to use the Epic pack

here is why it works

Produce an epic pack (requires a subscription)
------the majority of your players will buy it since they are already paying subscription

Then offer free play to the public (limit it to 3 toons per server) no epic stuff, no drow, just basic D+D

now you have 2 populations

paying players with access to drow, many toons, epic stuff

and 10 times as many free players...basic classes toons...ect.. only 3 toons per account only (US and Europe only !) << trust me there

you let the game itself sell the epic (paid account) from the pool of free players

it works...big time

your current player base is not going to flush all thier toons to grab a free basic (max 3 toons) account with no drow, no epic, BASIC content
only.

They will keep a paid account and go nuts with all the new folks to play with......and recruit into guilds.....get hooked on the game
......then every so often, offer a discount on the EPIC pack(s) (with paid subscription) and a new rush
of paid accounts come in from the free player base...usually folks that have been free a while and are ready for the new content
ect....

it works..........it financed Age of Conan

[Lorien_the_First_One]

your current player base is not going to flush all thier toons to grab a free basic (max 3 toons) account with no drow, no epic, BASIC content

Actually, I'd quit.

[moorewr]

Asking me to buy the next module (and the right to keep my current characters?!) on top of my subscription? I'd be on the edge of quitting altogether, and I wouldn't be alone.

[Deriaz]

The problem I've always had with paid expansions, and especially so in MMOs, is how do you do it without cutting off players who may not have an income or only have enough to get by on the basic game subscription? (Or maybe those that don't like paid expansions altogether.) Using WoW as an example, as that's the one I have the most experience with, regarding expansions:

The original game of WoW was. . . Ok, I guess. It held me to 60, so I guess I can't say I didn't have fun. Then the announcement of Burning Crusade hit. All of a sudden, level 70 is the next big thing. A new continent, and everything.

I wasn't interested. But the level cap was raised. A new continent. I decided to let the thing release, and I'd see what happened.

What happened?

I was the the only one left in the original content (I played on a "dead" server, population 2000 or something, counting both Horde and Alliance). I was basically forced into buying the expansion, just to enjoy the game. All my friends were leveling, and I was stuck at 60.

(Needless to say, the expansion sucked anyway, so I quit 2 weeks later.)


That's the problem I see with expansions. If you want to release stuff, but make the players pay for it, sure. Got for it -- if it's a single player game. When you're releasing content that might potentially split the player-base. . . No. Bad idea. I don't care how high of a level you can get with it. I don't care how many new quests and things are added. You've split the population, and that's not good, in my book.

If it's something like, say, a new race -- Shifters, for example? -- that wouldn't really be missed much by someone who does not want / cannot afford the expansion, that's nice, because the people without the expansions can still play with the Shifters, and not have to worry about much (Except for, well, the fact they can't be a Shifter. Big loss to some, insignificant to others).

If it's something like, say, the level cap goes to 40. . . Then you're splitting the population. Or else making the expansion, which is supposed to be optional, completely necessary.



Just my two copper on it, I guess.

I'd still buy it. It might take me a month or two to get the money (No summer job, and with school in the way. . .), but I'd still buy it.

-D