what do hit points represent?

[RavenStormclaw]

That is the question?

I'd like the communities answer for a reason I will reveal later.

Thanks

[JacknCoke]

nothing.

[Warmane]

That is the question?
I'd like the communities answer for a reason I will reveal later.Thanks


IMHO I think that hit points represent the amount of damage you can take before succumbing to the icy clutches of DEATH....

[Arkat]

IMHO I think that hit points represent the amount of damage you can take before succumbing to the icy clutches of DEATH....

I think you're mostly right.

To me they represent how long you should be able to last in a fight before receiving a fatal blow. Reductions in hit points taken by the monsters' attacks are just nicks, scratches, and "close calls."

[RavenStormclaw]

Thining about perhaps I should post my thoughts on hit points:

To me hit points represent the amount of damage you can mitigate before something finally kills you or the sheer number of your wounds overwhelms you. By this I mean an experienced fighter for example know's how to turn his blade or body so that an enemy's strike hits him in a way to cause only minimial damage but even minimal damage if enogh of it is dealt over a short time can cause death. To some extent it is based on your sheer toughness (the con componet) but also your experience in being able to mitigate or decrease the damage your opponet deals. After all a sword in the gut or a arrow in the chest will kill a raging barbarian almost a fast as a low con wizard. An arrow in your heart is an arrow in your heart. What I want to know is is this correct and if not what is?

[Kalanth]

Hit Points are just a numeric system to determine life or death. They don't stand for anything, and don't simulate cuts and bruises. They are strikes that made contact with your character and caused wounds. Those wounds are considered non-fatal unless they bring the character below zero, although some DM's determine that things like critical hits leave lasting marks (facial scar, the loss of a limb or apendage, etc.) As I rule, Hit Points represent hit points...

[Svetelana]

Death by 1000 cuts :)

[Shaamis]

I cant remember the exact definition, but I read in a 1st ed book a long time ago, written by the great one (Gygax), who summed up Hit points as a numerical statistic representing all of a characters toughness, will to live, general luck, and other tangible (and intangible) things that could represent how resilient a character is.

When a character is lower level, the hit points represent more physical toughness, and fortitude. As the character grows in level, the hit points represent more experience to avoid blows, luck to dodge critical attacks, along with a greater strength, constitution, and fortitude that increases the physical aspects of hit points.

When a character runs out of hit points, it is a representation that their physical body, will to live, combat experience, and sheer luck have run out.

take it for what you want, but that is the only good explanation why a 1st level character has 10-20 hitpoints, but a 16th level character can have over 700+

[petegunn]

In this game hp is just a way of circumventing the broken ac mechanic , its easier to build an hp monster than it is to build an ac tank.
I'm new to the forums though I've followed from afar i can remember the good old days of the con = dump stat lol

[sigtrent]

An age old topic of discussion.

As a PnP DM its something you ahve to decide for yourself. Clearly tougher characters have more of them so they partly represent how tough you are. But you do get more of them simply for having lived through multiple battles so a certain amount of skill and expereince must grant you more of them.

I like bloody in my D&D games so when you are hit you are physicaly damaged in some way. I generaly describe wounds in a relative proportion to how many HP were lost as a rough percentage of the characters remaining hit points. The closer they get to death the more grevious the wounds become. The farther they are away, the less serious the blows.

4th edition is adding a healing mechanic to all characters where they can rest for 5 minutes and get back some HP. They also have a mechanic where at half HP you become "blooded". After thinking about it I decided to adjust my narative view a bit for the new addition. I'm still keeping all hits as a physical wound of some kind (even if its just a bruise or the like) but HP are actualy more your will to live and your abbility to keep on fighting while wounded.

So if you are hit in combat above the 50% threshold you recieve a fairly minor but stinging cut or bruise but it is ultimately not the sort of thing to cause much allarm. If you get wounded in the blooded range it is a much nastier sort of wound but your inner drive and fortitude allow you to ignore the pain and keep fighting. When you get to 0 you are simply in a state of shock or blood loss such that you can not keep going and fall. Then you may well sucumb to death or survive depending on the dice (they have amechanic where you make saving throws while below 0 and if you fail 3 you die).

When you use healing surges you are not so much healing wounds as doing a simple bandage to stop bleeding, or eating some food and getting a tad bit of rest to regain your strength. You are still wounded but the wounds no longer hinder you and are on their way to healing due to your heroic nature and your determineation etc... Magic healing actualy closes up wounds, essentialy speeding your bodies natural recovery process.

[feynman]

I cant remember the exact definition, but I read in a 1st ed book a long time ago, written by the great one (Gygax), who summed up Hit points as a numerical statistic representing all of a characters toughness, will to live, general luck, and other tangible (and intangible) things that could represent how resilient a character is.

When a character is lower level, the hit points represent more physical toughness, and fortitude. As the character grows in level, the hit points represent more experience to avoid blows, luck to dodge critical attacks, along with a greater strength, constitution, and fortitude that increases the physical aspects of hit points.

When a character runs out of hit points, it is a representation that their physical body, will to live, combat experience, and sheer luck have run out.

take it for what you want, but that is the only good explanation why a 1st level character has 10-20 hitpoints, but a 16th level character can have over 700+

Yea, but then there's the old joke about the passed-out drunk, naked 10th level fighter being stabbed by a level 1 fighter...again...and again...and he missed...again..

Another factor that came into it was pain: a 10th level fighter is presumably more accustomed to the pain of having sharp pieces of metal stuck into his body, and is therefore less likely to die of shock, or some ****; there was a Dragon magazine piece on herbalism that allowed hp recovery through pain relief.

IMHO, hit points represent an arbitrary idea of toughness that increases with level to further distinguish between the relative abilities of various levels of characters; the biggest flaw is that, obviously, in real life pretty much anyone has a chance of killing anyone else with a single blow, given the right circumstances and enough luck, whereas the naked, drunk fighter in D&D doesn't follow that rule.

[Dracolich]

To me Hit points represent a combination of luck and skill. The more Hitpoints you have the more you are able to turn with blows to make them glance harmlessly or nearly harmlessly off you. Critical hits to me are those shots were you did not time your recieving of the blow right or misaligned your shield to recieve the blow. Lower level characters have lower hitpoints too represent their inexperience in combat and inexperience in turning with blows thus they die easier when dealt a fatal blow what would to a higher level character be a mere scratch or a dent in the shield.

That is always how I have interperated hit points

[Invalid_50]

Because of this very question we modified our own pnp game.

In my PNP game we kind of did away with the whole hit point rules as they apply in D&D. We break up hit points between limbs (arms body legs head). We also use the Warhammer idea of “Toughness”. Toughness is a pool of points that must be breached before hit points are lost through damage. A player gets his Standard toughness which is physically how tough he is, this number is never reduced in combat. Standard toughness is generally low because if it gets to be too high, characters begin to be invulnerable to damage. Characters also receive bonus toughness, this toughness represents a characters overall condition. Once it is reduced it can only be regained through extended periods of rest. Think of Bonus toughness as an indication of how much the character has been through. When starting an adventure coming from a town the character should be refreshed and ready for action. After days of combat the character is fatigued and no longer has the same fortitude as he did when they were fully rested. You can not regain bonus toughness merely by resting, it has to be long periods of rest in a completely safe environment.

Before toughness is breached the blow must penetrate your armor. Armor is given a Defense point rating (how much damage can the armor block in a single blow) and an Armor point rating (how much damage can the armor take before it is destroyed and becomes useless.) If an orc attacks, and hits you with a Longsword for 6 total damage. A roll is made to determine where the hit landed (based on 100% dice, lets say the hit landed on the right arm), then the armor is calculated (lets say chainmail armor with a defense point of 2), then toughness (say the player has 1 standard toughness, and 2 bonus toughness). The armor absorbed 2 points, toughness absorbed 3 with 1 point reducing the hit points on the right arm. The result is that the armor sustained 2 points of structural damage, the bonus toughness is lost (but not the base toughness of 1 remains) and one hit point on the arm was lost.

Note that some caster spells such as fireball do “pool hit point damage” where a roll is made and the result detracts from your entire hit point pool since you were hit with an area of effect attack rather than a focused melee attack.

Once your hit points on any limb are reduced below zero, you must make a roll on a critical chart. The victim rolls a d100, the higher the roll the worse the effect. The further negative you are on any given limb the worse the effect. For instance a -1 on an arm with a roll of 100, likely you’d die. Alternatively a -6 on the arm with a roll of 01, likely you’d die. The thing that’s kind of neat about this system though is that there are varying degrees of debilitating effects for each tier in the critical chart. From having your hand bruised dropping whatever item you are holding, to the blow slicing through your arm and into your chest cavity rupturing your heart.

We have also made other various modifications (minor) to combat, but we use most of the other rules in D&D as is.

In the end its a lot like what Sigtrent was talking about in his game. My players tend to like this system though, because it brings attrition of battle, and realistic results from combat into the roleplay. The other thing it does is not let the game get too ridiculous in terms of straight damage a character needs to do in order to kill a monster, and in turn the character has to be careful in combat always. Finally it brings in a whole new slew of magic items that can be created in order to augment characters for combat.

[Mistinarperadnacles]

In games I DM, Hit Points represent a multitude of things all at once. Stamina and fatigue, physical toughness, fighting skill, special defences like tough hide etc all rolled into one convenient number.

As fights go on, I tend to describe situations as player or monster hitpoints reduce of increasing tiredness, closer calls, minor blows or maybe minor but cumulative damage like bits of armour being compromised etc.

I feel that fits best with the storytelling aspect and makes for some epic fights with the added advantage that you can toss in all kinds of in character information about monsters stats, special abilities and ecology for the players to figure out and learn for the next time they might face them.

[Hvymetal]

Yea, but then there's the old joke about the passed-out drunk, naked 10th level fighter being stabbed by a level 1 fighter...again...and again...and he missed...again..

Another factor that came into it was pain: a 10th level fighter is presumably more accustomed to the pain of having sharp pieces of metal stuck into his body, and is therefore less likely to die of shock, or some ****; there was a Dragon magazine piece on herbalism that allowed hp recovery through pain relief.

IMHO, hit points represent an arbitrary idea of toughness that increases with level to further distinguish between the relative abilities of various levels of characters; the biggest flaw is that, obviously, in real life pretty much anyone has a chance of killing anyone else with a single blow, given the right circumstances and enough luck, whereas the naked, drunk fighter in D&D doesn't follow that rule.That's where the coup de grace rule would come into effect :D

[MrWizard]

in my DMing hit points were usually used as intended for combat situations.

However, in situations were someone was sleeping or knocked out, as in the 10th level fighter example, hit points do not mean anything as a 1st level assassin could easily cut his throat and rob him.

But, when going to online gaming, there is no intelligent DM making decisions at each instance, so a method must be developed.

As long as the adventure is fun, I do not care what the mechanics are...I just wanna have some fun.

[RavenStormclaw]

Thank you all the running consensus goes with my basic understanding of hit points. Which leads to an interesting concept I will post in a new thread....cause boy is it gonna raise some eyebrows.

[Spookykid]

and originally hit points were used in a mass battle type system, so not really related to a single character

[roadkill525]

hit points pretty much a number for the amount of hits you can take, some hits harder some hits lighter... in PNP there even a rule if you lose what was it... 1/3 of yer total HP in 1 hit you had to roll a fort save or die from shock?

[RictrasShard]

I cant remember the exact definition, but I read in a 1st ed book a long time ago, written by the great one (Gygax), who summed up Hit points as a numerical statistic representing all of a characters toughness, will to live, general luck, and other tangible (and intangible) things that could represent how resilient a character is.



That is fairly much the way it went. It was in the Dungeonmaster's Guide. Here is the original excerpt, if you wanted to read it again:

'It is quite unreasonable to assume that as a character gains levels of ability in his or her class that a corresponding gain in actual ability to sustain physical damage takes place. It is preposterous to state such an assumption, for if we are to assume that a man is killed by a sword thrust which does 4 points of damage, we must similarly assume that a hero could, on the average, withstand five such thrusts before being slain! Why then the increase in hit points? Because these reflect both the actual physical ability of the character to withstand damage - as indicated by constitution bonuses - and a commensurate increase in such areas as skill in combat and similar life-and-death situations, the "sixth-sense" which warns the individual of some otherwise unforeseen events, sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protection. Therefore, constitution affects both actual ability to withstand physical punishment hit points (physique) and the immeasurable areas which involve the sixth sense and luck (fitness).'

[BlueLightBandit]

IMHO, hit points represent an arbitrary idea of toughness that increases with level to further distinguish between the relative abilities of various levels of characters; the biggest flaw is that, obviously, in real life pretty much anyone has a chance of killing anyone else with a single blow, given the right circumstances and enough luck, whereas the naked, drunk fighter in D&D doesn't follow that rule.

You have to take this "real world" analogy out of the picture. For several reasons, 1. all daggers are wounding and pucturing, 2. a single swing from a two handed axe will kill a human 75% of the time, but that same human will die from a gunshot wound only 20% of the time, etc. etc. etc.

If you did want to put the real wold factor into it... figure all 18 year old humans as lvl 1 humans with an average of 10 con... A few will reach as high as 14, and as many will go as low as 6.

[Arkat]

Which leads to an interesting concept I will post in a new thread....cause boy is it gonna raise some eyebrows.

Well??? Where is it???