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Lazarus
05-20-2008, 03:13 PM
this are just some prestige class like enhancements that i have been kicking around and would like to see implamented in game.
couple of things before i start though, i welcome all constructive feedback and critisism as well as welcome others to share their ideas as well, but lets keep it civil and realistic. try to think with in the confines of what is in game already and what would be balanced and/or what is even codeable.
also i didn't bother to write in any paladin, ranger, bard or rogue ones becuase they have some or will soon (as confirmed by devs for pallys), so i chose to try to flesh out the classes that don't have any yet. that all being said here goes.

Barbarian:
-Frenzied Berzerker:
Requirements: Barbarian Rage, Barbarian lvl 6, Extend Rage II, Power Rage II, Hardy Rage II
Special Ability: Frenzy-Gain the ability to frenzy half as many times per rest as the number of times you can rage, while in a frenzy you gain +6 str and attack speed boost but suffer -4 to ac and slowly take hp damage (think viscious or like acid arrow) until the rage ends. These bonuses and penalties stack with barbarian rage and other similar boosts.

-Dervish:
Requirements: Barbarian Rage, Barbarian lvl 6, Weapon focus: any, Dodge, Mobility, (maybe Spring attack but then only human or multi class barbarians could take at 6th or 7th level, all others would have to wait till 9th)
Special Ability: Dervish Dance- Gain the ability to dervish dance half as many times per rest as your barbarian rage. while in a dervish dance you gain a +1 to attack, +2 to damage and ac while the dance lasts as well as an attack and movement speed boost. This boost stacks with other similar boosts.

Having trouble coming up with a third one for barbs.

Fighter:
-Spellsword:
Requirements: Fighter lvl 6, mental toughness, weapon focus: any
Benefits: Reduction of arcane spell failure by 10% and the ability to channel spells (channel spell would have a slot on the spell memorization page that any non persistant damage spell (except acid arrow) or target spell (such as hold person, charm person)could go into, you could only change this on rest like wizards change spells, and only memorized spells can go into the slot) To channel a spell you would hit a spelcial attack similar to smites or trips (normal spell cool down timer) that would cast the spell on hit spending the sp required for the spell but only hitting the target (in the case of area spells like fireball) and doing damage if applicable as well as weapon damage.

-Weapon Master:
Requirements: Fighter lvl 6, Weapon Focus: any, power critical, weapon specialization: any (same as focus), fighter critical accuracy II
Benefits: Weapon mastery (when taking this enhancment you choose a weapon type that meets the requirements above and gain the benefit of weapon mastery with that type of weapons) you gain a +1 to attack, +2 to damage, +1 to the critical threat range of those weapons. Also gain an attack called ki strike (similar to smites and such) that when used does max damage on succesful hit.

-Tactical Soldier:
Requirements: Fighter lvl 6, any two of these feats {improved trip, stunning blow, improved sunder}, any one of these enhancement lines {Fighter Strategy Stunning Blow I and II, Fighter Strategy Trip I and II, or Fighter Sunder I and II} and Fighter Flanking Mastery I
Benefit: Gain +1 to attack and +2 to damage while flanking, and +4 to the dc of all your fighter special attacks (sunder, stunning blow, and trip).

::Now i have a few racial fighter enhancemens that require you to be a certain race, not sure whether they should also be open to all fighters and also the specific race or if they should be exclusive to fighters of a certain race, but for my purposes here i will assume only fighters of a specifc race.::

-Dwarven Defender:
Requirements: Fighter lvl 6, race: dwarf, dodge, toughness, diehard, shield masery
Benefits: add str bonus (or half str bonus not sure) to intimidate checks and +2 to ac. also gain the ability to go into a defensive stance which give +2 str, +4 con, +2 to all saves and ac and +3 to blocking dr, but his movement speed it reduced to half (or 1/3).

-Elven Bladesinger:
Requirements: Fighter lvl 6, race: elf (maybe drow not sure, prefer not), elf melee attack I, elf melee damage I, mental toughness, weapon finesse
Benefits: Bladesong style- gain +100 sp and add int bonus to ac as long wearing light or no armor and not carrying a tower shield.

-Drow Scorpion Guard:
Requirements: Fighter lvl 6, race: drow, drow melee attack I, drow melee damage I, fighter flanking mastery I, weapon finesse.
Benefits: +1d6 sneak attack (this stacks with rogue sneak attack), also gain the scorpion strike stance which does 1 point of con damage on any strike that would be a sneak attack in addition to sneak attack damage but also take 1d6 damage to the drow scorpian guard for each such successful strike. (essentialy gives all weapons the wounding and vicous property whenever you would deal sneak attack damage).

-Warforged Jaugernaut:
Requirements: Fighter lvl 6, Race: warforged, adamantine body, warforged construct thinking II, warforged damage reduction II
Benefits: your max dex for adamantine body raises by +2 and you gain the warforged juggernaut stance, your mind begins to fade away and you become more consturct like, you gain heavy fortification, immunity to death effects and your dr increases by +2 but you become immune to healing spells (you can still be repaired by arcane casters) while in the stance.

::at this time i have been unable to come up with a prc like enhancment for halflings (besides halfling outriders which require mounted combat which isn't likely to happen) and humans::

Wizards:
-Specialist:
Requirements: Wizard lvl 6, Spell focus: any, Spell penetraion, greater spell focus: any (same as spell focus)
Benefit: upon taking this enchancment you choose a specific school and you gain a +2 to save dcs and spell pen checks for that school as well as a reduction in meta magic feat sp costs (not sure on amount of reduction yet).

-Meta Magician:
Requirements: Wizard lvl 6, any two meta magic feats, any two of the following ehanment lines (Wizard Improved Empowering I and II, Wizard Improved Enlarge I and II, Wizard Improved Heightening I and II, Wizard Improved Maximizing I and II, Wizard Improved Quickening I and II) and mental toughness
Benefit: gain a +100 sp bonus and all metamagic feats sp costs are further reduced.

-Elemental Savant:
Requirements: Wizard lvl 6, one of (Wizard Lineage of Elements I or Wizard Lineage of Energy I), one of the following lines (Wizard Elemental Manipulation I and II orWizard Energy Manipulation I and II) and one of (Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I or Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy I)
Benefit: upon choosing this enhancement you must choose an element which corresponds with the prerequisite enhanmanets you have taken (fire, electricity, acid, or cold), once chosen you gain a +1 to the save dcs of those spells as well as some new spells added to your spell list (when ever you learn a new elemental spell you also gain a different spell that is in always the same as the original except that it now does your chosen type of elements damage. for example if you chose cold as your chose focus than you would gain a cold fireball, cold acid arrow, cold firewall, etc...)

thats it for now, i'll try to update the rest latter as well as give my reasons for certain choices as well as some reasons why i think they would or wouldn't be easy to implament.

Lazarus
05-20-2008, 03:14 PM
held for further comments>

MysticTheurge
05-20-2008, 03:40 PM
(as confirmed by devs for pallys)

Really? I missed that.

Sem34
05-20-2008, 03:50 PM
Psted by Eladrin
The Faith lines were considered the "specialty lines" for Clerics and Paladins.

We've changed our minds on that, so it's quite likely that we'll be adding Paladin specialty enhancements in a future update.


http://http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1698706#post1698706

Yaga_Nub
05-20-2008, 03:52 PM
Really? I missed that.

beat me.

Lazarus
05-20-2008, 04:00 PM
yea can't find the page to link to but they said they would most likely be knight of the chalice, defender of sealatiel, and an undead killing one that was un nammed as of yet.

Ghoste
05-20-2008, 04:05 PM
Hey! You gimped the juggernaut on abilities and immunities!
-greater bull rush
-body spikes
-immunity to all stat damage
-immunity to all spells from the following schools: necromancy, illusion, enchantment
-immunity to negative energy and death effects

I realize these are just supposed to be enhancements along the same lines as what Turbine has been doing, but just like them this isn't even close to the true thing.

Who knows? Maybe someday we'll get true PRCs.

Lazarus
05-20-2008, 04:09 PM
had to leave room for juggernaut 2, can't give all the benefits of the whole prc in one taken enhancment at level 6:D

Sem34
05-20-2008, 05:07 PM
Posted By Eladrin
Paladins are primarily a defensive support class, and under many circumstances can fill that role quite well.

Yes, there are some serious issues facing defensive classes in high end content (especially on Elite) which primarily negatively affect the Paladin and Fighter. (See Borror0's excellent analysis of the issues for more information.) The changes to Paladins in Module 7 are also not meant to be a comprehensive list of changes to the class - there will be more things coming, and we do recognize that there are many additional avenues for us to explore to make them a more desirable class.

I disagree with the thought that Paladins do not serve any valuable purpose.


Quote:
You can have autoattack on, but still swing manually. You pause for a split second to hit your button for divine sacrifice, then resume attacking.

Divine Sacrifice won't interrupt your attack sequence, there's no real need to pause.


Quote:
I will agree with you though, that Bodyfeeder + Divine Sacrifice is not a combo that I would seek to use.

It's extremely effective in the mid levels when you've first gained access to Divine Sacrifice. Monsters at that point aren't likely to bust through Virtue + Bodyfeeder on the AC of the average paladin between crits, so the hp cost isn't much of an issue - it'll often refresh before the timer on DS is done, and also works if you're acting as a secondary tank in a party. (A role that will work better come M7, when preventing monsters from reaching their target will generate aggression.)

It's not a combo that I'd recommend against the hard hitting monsters on elite at level 16, but not everyone's capped, and AC issues plaguing defensive melee classes don't become extreme until you're playing on higher difficulties near cap.


Quote:
It isn't a question of differing play styles, because there is no play style that benefits from bodyfeeder/DS(except for the intentionally reducing my dps method of playing. hot tip for that guy; not swinging reduces your dps even more!).

Unless you don't have a Foo of Bar weapon, of course. Bodyfeeders are pretty cheap, and a Paladin can essentially turn one into "this weapon deals 5d6-9d6 damage and has +1 to its crit multiplier on the attack following a crit".


Quote:
Divine Sacrifice has more functionality than adding damage- it's also useful to kill yourself.

You'll have to have a monster finish you off or unequip your Con item, we don't let hp-cost abilities actually kill you.


Quote:
Dev said no more nerfs (after nerfing paladins repeatedly), but they will give other classes good enhancements to compensate, though nowhere near as overpowered as Crit Rage2

Since I keep seeing this... I said that we'd prefer to improve class balance by improving other classes rather than by changing existing class abilities if that's a viable option. ("We'll do what we can to add rather than take away.") We didn't say "no more nerfs".

Back to Paladins:

As for plans for the future... I expect to be implementing class specialties for the Paladin in the near future (currently winning but still subject to change: Knight of the Chalice, Defender of Sealtiel, and either the Purple Dragon Knight or an anti-undead one) as well as considering some of the spells and divine feats from various sources. There is likely to also be more poaching of the Marshal's abilities as alternatives to the Paladin's aura, and perhaps some sort of "Divine Challenge" ability to encourage opponents to pay attention to the holy warrior that doesn't have Intimidate as a class skill.

Oh, and Tharagrim's working on the Holy Avenger.

http://http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1703510#post1703510

Darkwolf
05-20-2008, 05:19 PM
Dervish should be a Fighter enhancement, not Barb. I mean, really. Dancing, while enraged? Mmm-no.

Aesop
05-20-2008, 05:26 PM
Dervish should be a Fighter enhancement, not Barb. I mean, really. Dancing, while enraged? Mmm-no.

I disagree... but

I think PrEs should be based on Build not on Class. Feats, Features (my own definition of Feats that are Class based) and Skill Ranks... not Enhancements

Aesop

Borror0
05-20-2008, 05:42 PM
PrC enhancements should not be limited to one class. In my opinion, anyone meeting the prereqs should be able to take the said PrC enhancement. For Tempest I, that would be ITwF and Spring Attack. Would only be available at level 6 because of the BAB prereq of ITwF.

Lazarus
05-20-2008, 05:45 PM
i actually agree with you and i also think you should be able to take more than one if their are not limited by class as long as you meet the prereqs for them.

Vorn
05-20-2008, 05:50 PM
For weapon master I personally prefer pre-reqs along the lines of the PrC: spring attack, combat expertise, whirlwind, 6 ranks of intimidate. You can easily split it up into weaponmaster 1 and 2 at levels 6 and 12.

Lazarus
05-20-2008, 05:53 PM
i thought about the feat pre reqs from the books but am staying away from skill prereqs (like turbine) because there is no way to go back and respec your skill points and you don't won't to force people to reroll or be left out

Borror0
05-20-2008, 05:57 PM
i thought about the feat pre reqs from the books but am staying away from skill prereqs (like turbine) because there is no way to go back and respec your skill points and you don't won't to force people to reroll or be left out

Simple, add skill respec... it's way overdue now.

The change to Listen. The change to Intimidate and Diplomacy by making them instant, and the changes to Intimidate, Diplomacy and bluff coming Module 7.
Besides, skills are the easiest thing to mess up on a character.

EDIT: And I'm sure I'm missing some.

Vorn
05-20-2008, 06:09 PM
Simple, add skill respec... it's way overdue now.

The change to Listen. The change to Intimidate and Diplomacy by making them instant, and the changes to Intimidate, Diplomacy and bluff coming Module 7.
Besides, skills are the easiest thing to mess up on a character.

Concur here and have messed these up because of decisions made at the launch of the game based upon the information then available. I won't re-roll but would like the opportunity to play with skills the same way I've played with feats.

Borror0
05-20-2008, 06:23 PM
Concur here and have messed these up because of decisions made at the launch of the game based upon the information then available. I won't re-roll but would like the opportunity to play with skills the same way I've played with feats.

Exactly, messing up your skills isn't a big mistake to reroll, but it's annoying enough.