32 Point - Almost Pure Paladin Intimitank

[Alcides]

This is a variation of the Riot tank that I'm making with as pure of paladin as I can make. Unforunately, since Intimidate is a cross class skill for Paladins, I can't stay pure and have the kind of intimidate I want this character. The goal was to make a character that can take a decent beating, and has better saves and potentially hps than the standard fighter intimitank. I'd like some constructive Paladin comments on anything I can do better without redoing stats/subtracting paladin levels.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Grundable Slamhammer
Level 16 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(1 Fighter \ 15 Paladin)
Hit Points: 308
Spell Points: 232
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 15
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 14 20
Dexterity 12 14
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 12 13
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 12 18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 16
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 16
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 16
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 3 8
Bluff 1 4
Concentration 5 22
Diplomacy 1 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 4
Heal 2 3
Hide 1 2
Intimidate 5 27
Jump 2 5
Listen 2 3
Move Silently 1 2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 3
Spot 2 3
Swim 2 5
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I

Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I

Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I

Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II

Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II

Level 10 (Paladin)

Level 11 (Paladin)

Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III

Level 13 (Paladin)

Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III

Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II

Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense I

[Alcides]

Ending Stats (Mod 7)
Str: 26
Dex: 20
Con: 26
Int: 13
Wis: 22
Cha: 24

HP: 377 = (160 Base + 128 Stat + 30 Enhancement + 30 Item + 29 Feat)
SP: 601 = (157 Base + 144 Stat + 300 Item)

Hit: 31 = (16 Base + 8 Strength + 1 Feat + 1 Enhancement + 5 Item)

AC: 57 = (10 Base + 13 Armor + 9 Shield + 4 Stat + 5 Aura + 6 Dodge + 5 Deflection + 4 Insight + 1 Alchemical)

Fort Save: 35 (11 Base + 7 Cha + 8 Con + 4 Aura + 5 Resist)
Ref Save: 26 (5 Base + 7 Cha + 5 Dex + 4 Aura + 5 Resist)
Will Save: 27 (5 Base + 7 Cha + 6 Wis + 4 Aura + 5 Resist)

Intimidate: 47 (19 Base + 15 Item + 2 Green Steel Item + 1 Enhancement + 3 Feat + 7 Cha)

Equipment List
+5 Mithral Full Plate
+5 Mithral Tower Shield

Green Steel Longsword
Flaming
Holy Burst
+4 Insight Bonus AC
+4d6 Light Damage on Crit
Blindness On Crit.

Green Steel Goggles
+4 Wisdom Skills
+2 Charisma Skills
+300 SP
+5 Deflection Bonus AC
Heavy Fortification

Chaosguarde (+2 Dodge Bonus AC)
+6 Wisdom Necklace
+5 Dexterity Glove
Belt of Brute Strength (+6 Strength, +30 HP)
+6 Constitution Ring
+6 Charisma Cloak
Boots of the Innocent (+5 Saves, 15% Run Speed)
Chattering Ring (+3 Dodge Bonus AC, +10 Balance)

[Borror0]

I'd like some constructive Paladin comments on anything I can do better without redoing stats/subtracting paladin levels.

Less Con, more Str.
Go 12/4.
Drop Wisdom!
More Dex!

:D

[Alcides]

Too much hp loss. I thought long and hard about the Wisdom, and I thought it was more worthwhile to take the wisdom in case I want to keep an item slot free for something else.

[Borror0]

Too much hp loss.

Anyone's got an emote of a little guy rolling on the floor laughing? It'd be really appropriate here. Thanks.

/wait

Seriously dude, you're playing an intimitank. I don't know how much AC you'v got, but I've never found myself lacking HP, or not where that 16 HP would matter.


I thought it was more worthwhile to take the wisdom in case I want to keep an item slot free for something else.

You could have at least went two lower and eat a tome.:rolleyes:

[artvan_delet]

drop wisdom by 2, increase cha by 2. better saves, higher loh. don't need to start with 14 wisdom. Alternatively, if you go higher cha and lower wis, then you can put your level 4 ability raise into Con or Str, and not Cha. Better to raise the abilities of the highest cost points, more cost effective. And you can then pass on Paladin charisma 3, and invest the 6 ap in something else, like paladin and dwarven toughness 3. Toughness enhancements are some of the best AP buys in the game.

[Borror0]

drop wisdom by 2, increase cha by 2. better saves, higher loh. don't need to start with 14 wisdom.

His saves are more than fine with 12 cha, so it's only an improvement on Lay on Hands... and well...

[Alcides]

Dropping to 12 con would be a 32 hp loss and 2 fort save. I can see the argument for dropping 2 con and 2 wisdom for a 16 strength I just don't have the +2 books necessary to make up the stat loss. I started Grundable with the following equipment in mind for higher levels.

On Hand Equipment
+5 Mithral Fullplate
+5 Mithral Tower
Chaosgaurde
+4 Holy Longsword of Puregood.
150k pp for the +1 Str/Dex/Int tomes.
2 Planar Grids

Future Raid Items
+5 Greensteel Longsword with +4 AC (not sure on other mods yet).
+5 Charisma Skill Goggles with 300 SP +5 Deflection AC and Heavy Fortification.
+3 Strength Tome
+2 Cha/Con/Wis Tomes (2)
Chattering Ring
Belt of Brute Strength

Future Quest Farmed Items
+6 Con Ring
+5 Dex Gloves
+6 Charisma Cloak
+6 Wisdom Neck
+15 Intimidate Helm.

Favor Rewards
+10 Hit Points
+2 Tome from 1750 favor.

[Borror0]

Dropping to 12 con would be a 32 hp loss and 2 fort save. I can see the argument for dropping 2 con and 2 wisdom for a 16 strength I just don't have the +2 books necessary to make up the stat loss.

"+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 16"

And the argument was to drop the Con at 14, sorry.
Don't talk about fort saves, if you miss one on a paladin, get better gear.

[Alcides]

The assumption is that I will eventually get the +2/+3 Tomes from raiding. Probably will take a while but hey I've got nothing better to do with my free time. I'm also waiting to see what they're going to do for high level paladin enhancements(level 19-20). If the best enhancements top out at level 18 then I'm going to drop my last level as fighter(level 20), drop 1 point in strength and pick up Fighter Strength 1. Assuming they put in +5 books my strength will top out at 30. If not it will top out at 28.

[Lizardgrad89]

Attributes:

Drop Wisdom to 12. Don't need more than that for spellcasting.
Drop Intelligence to 9. With the Tome, Int=10, Pallys get base 2 skill points per level, 3 if you go Human, and that's plenty when all you really need is Intimidate and a little Balance and Concentration.
Put some of these points into Charisma. Charisma is a Pally's friend. Nothing wrong with bumping up the Dex either, but go too high you will end up a robe-wearing intimitank, and that's always amusing.
Feats. Find room for Force of Personality. With a decent Charisma, you will get a big boost over the Wisdom save bonus, and that's important for an Aggro taker. Take it instead of Combat Casting. That's a wasted feat.

Skills: Way over-emphasizing Concentration. With your low Wisdom, MOBs will just save on everything anyway, so combat casting's not really a big deal. Focus on buffs, where Conc doesn't matter so much. Sure, take a few Conc skill points, wear a +11 Conc item, that's enough.

[Alcides]

Int 13 is the minimum intelligence needed for Combat Expertise(-5 Hit for +5 AC) not Combat Casting(+4 Concentration).
For 1 AP My Paladin Aura can give +3 Concentration(Good as Skill Focus: Concentration)
For 3 AP My Paladin Aura can give +6 Concentration(Almost as Good as Skill Focus: Concentration + Combat Casting).

The concentration is mainly for mobs that are running in that chump hit me while I'm casting Divine Favor.

Also with a +2 Wisdom Book and +6 Wisdom Item my ending Wisdom score will be 22 which is 1 less bonus than the 24 Charisma I will end up with, so I really wouldn't need Force of Personality in this case.

[Borror0]

That's plenty when all you really need is Intimidate and a little Balance and Concentration.

One , he needs Int for Combat expterise.

Two, but starting at 9 Int, he's at 1 skill point per level, 2 if human.

Three, you talk about Concentration now, but bash it further in your post.

Four, he needs Intimidate, Jump, Balance and UMD. Jump is too nice as a tank to overlook. Balance is quite useful. Intimidate, well, duh! And UMD is really nice.


Put some of these points into Charisma. Charisma is a Pally's friend.

Wrong, Cha past 12 is a paladin's enemy!


Nothing wrong with bumping up the Dex either, but go too high you will end up a robe-wearing intimitank, and that's always amusing.

I agree on Dex, he should have started with higher. However, for a robe to give more AC than a Mithril FP, you need a dex of around 38... and you're not offfsetting the loss of the Tower Shield (even though that as a paladin he won't be using one). As a paladin, there is no way he'll reah that high! Ever!! If he would in fact go for such an high Dex (assuming it'd be possible), he would need to invest his level ups in Dexterity.. lowering his DPS. Not a good idea on a S&B paladin. DPS might not be his bread and butter, but if you can't even kill a troglodyte...

Oh, and by gonig dex-based, he'd need Weapon Finess.. and he's sort on feats.
In short, Dex-base intimitank = Bad idea!

Oh, and if you're talking about robe wearing, at least have the brain to mention splashing rogue for Evasion.:rolleyes:


Find room for Force of Personality. With a decent Charisma, you will get a big boost over the Wisdom save bonus, and that's important for an Aggro taker.

You, sir, have no idea of what a paladin is, right?

With the saves like her currently got, there is no need for FoP. He's probably got a +6 Wis item so that puts him high enough. the only use of FoP for a high level paladin is when you've got a high Wis like he got and value a item slot higher than a feat slot.


Take it instead of Combat Casting. That's a wasted feat.

He hasn't taken Combat Casting. I agree Combat Casting would be a wasted feat, but unless I missed it, he hasn't taken it. He took combat Expertise, which is the total opposite. It's the most important feat for him. It's 5 more AC, and his build is mainly focused on high AC. Droping it comes to the same as a DPS build dropping Power Attack.


Sure, take a few Conc skill points, wear a +11 Conc item, that's enough.

Not even. When will a paladin ever cast a spell in combat?
Even less with Combat Expertise...

[sigtrent]

Take a gander at my Paladin AC challenge build (also in the paladin forum). It is pretty much the same deal, but you could adjust it to favor strength a bit more than dex for a bit less AC and more damage (probably a wise way to go but I was doing a proof of concept thing).

[Slayer918]

First off drop skill focus: intimidate... with GH your at 51 w/o it. Thats 100% on 99% of mobs

Secondly I would drop paladin charisma II and III, 10 APs really isn't worth +2 charisma (+1 to your saves, +1 intimidate, +25 hp on your LoH)

Drop Dwarven Con I and II thats 6 aps for 16 hitpoints, pick up dwarven/paladin toughness III for those 6 aps and gain 30 hitpoints (14 over what u had)

I don't believe you can get +5 charisma skills on a mineral II goggles, I believe the earth focus will override the positive focus and you will get +4 wisdom skills +2 charisma skills

[Alcides]

I don't believe you can get +5 charisma skills on a mineral II goggles, I believe the earth focus will override the positive focus and you will get +4 wisdom skills +2 charisma skills

Yep, I think you're right it looks like the earth focus is dominate. For whatever reason I thought that doing Earth/Positive/Earth+Positive gave +1 Wisdom Skills; +5 Charisma Skills. Guess I'll go for the +20 HPs +3 Con Skills then.