Please Adjust how XP is awarded in the Explorer Areas.

[Impaqt]

I'd like to see the Explorer areas XP adjusted for more consistant benefits. I love that we will be able to complete these objective even t hough we will not be inthe Level range anymore, but the XP gets few an far between after you've been in there a couple times. Most people Hit the Exporer Areas, The Rares, and then Kill to the 400-750 mark, and then move on since it then takes foreveer to get any benefit from the area.

Theres a very simple solution to help correct this...

Smaller Groups of Kill tiers.

I dont mind the 10-25-50-100-200 Progression. Thats fine, but after that, the number of kills start to require multiple trips into the area to get ANY xp at all.

It would be sweet to have 100 be the Top XP Progression.

We dont need MORE XP, just distribute it more evenly..... THe Orchard has aprox. 169,000 XP availabale via Slayer. If you switched the progression to 100 kills per tier after you hit 100, you could give about 2250 XP Per 100 Kills (About the same as the 100-200 Tier Currently is).

This would give people a Goal Eachand every time they go in there (As Long as they arent Capped) and would also have the added Benefit of reducing the XP windfall Problem at Level cap Raises. (Many people Staged The Desert and Orchard to be at -1 from a high Tier of Kills so it took just ONE kill to receive THousands of XP)

I dont have a problem with people doing that, Its a Pretty smart thing to do actually... But I doubt the devs had that in mind when they set the XP up the way they did.

[VonBek]

Agreed

[Fanabeam]

/signed

[JacknCoke]

/not signed


I happen to like the way it is set up. Ya it takes 4ev4 to get that 1500 mark. I don't mind that. I don't like things just handed to me. 1500 is not that hard just takes a little time. Explorers and the huge 1500 pay off is great for the ones who cant find or don't want to grp.

[Laith]

agreed.

however, i'd be ok with tiers of 200 kills maybe even 400. anything more though is a bit much. i like going back to help "lowbies" with explorer areas, but when i see that i need thousands to get anything out of it, it's kinda lame.

i'm willing to bet that they sometimes split the slayer into a few groups to try and alleviate this problem, but the 3 groups in gianthold annoy me.
the areas are too small to get many kills in one group without resetting,
and it asks me to stay in a small area instead of exploring the whole instance (if i'm going primarily for slayer).

2 groups in the vale are fine. the 1 general group in the other places is excellent. it encourages me to actually/clear explore the whole instance before i reset it again.

basically, there's a simple fact with these explorer areas:
you complete explorer points in the first pass,
you get most of the rares by run 3-4,
anything after that is primarily for loot or slayer... and slayer rewards start taking 5-10 passes to pay off (when they really shouldn't have to). that's not really a reward to people that "log in for short periods of time" (a stated goal of the explorer areas).

[Yaga_Nub]

/not signed


I happen to like the way it is set up. Ya it takes 4ev4 to get that 1500 mark. I don't mind that. I don't like things just handed to me. 1500 is not that hard just takes a little time. Explorers and the huge 1500 pay off is great for the ones who cant find or don't want to grp.

What about 3000? And with the next explorer area what if it's 5000?

At a certain point it gets to be to much.

I would be okay with 250 or even 500 between xp points but anything after that is to much to be worth it.

I actually don't like the current 10, 25, 50, 100 set-up. Just make it 250 across the board for each xp step.

[Borror0]

Agreed.

[Uproar]

100% agree.

[Impaqt]

/not signed


I happen to like the way it is set up. Ya it takes 4ev4 to get that 1500 mark. I don't mind that. I don't like things just handed to me. 1500 is not that hard just takes a little time. Explorers and the huge 1500 pay off is great for the ones who cant find or don't want to grp.

750-1500 isnt that bad, I Agree.. But what about 1500-3000? and then 5000, and then 7500? Needing to kill 2500 mobs to get ANYTHING is too much.

the "Payoff" ends up being Exactly the same.... I Would think this would benefit Soloists more than people who group.. a Group of 6 can clear the orchard in 10-15 Minutes.(Less if yer all Casters) Recall, Reset the instance and do it again.... Solo.. It takes 30-45 Minutes to clear the whole thing.

I'd be cool with 200-250 per tier as well... ANything more and it requires 2 Trips to see any benefit XP WIse.

[Zenako]

seconded for the umpteenth time....:D

The intervals should be reasonably large, but a lot smaller than those currently in place. 500 is probably a good compromise. SPlit the same EXP over the new intervals.

If you make the intervals too small, it could actually act as a disincentive for capped characters to rerun the areas. RIght now they have some incentive to run them a bit and then slow down or stop when they get close to some big and useful break point.

The upper levels of slayers give not just thousands of EXP, but many 10's of thousands of EXP. IF you know a level increase is coming, you want to stop short and save those easy EXP for later. Small intervals also provide a constant reminder to the lost EXP chances. The remaining boosts from something like a 500 point interval should be enough to work on getting close to as you close in on a level cap bump, but also not large enough to really really want to avoid wasting.

[Club'in]

Good back and forth on the pros and cons. I'd say keep the lower end progression, then after 750 have it come to you in 500 slain chunks. A nice compromise.

[Impaqt]

I really dont think stopping at 2999 Kills so you can get 32,310XP For One Kill when the Level cap Goes up is "Working as Intended"

Between the Vale and The Orchard, you can stage close to 100k XP in less than 5 Minutes worth of Work.
(Of course, those are usually the people that Brag about getting to the new cap fastest, and the subsequently complain about the lack of content as well)

[Blagrak]

/not signed

It's fine the way it is now. Why should you get the same xp for killing the same amount of mobs each time? Why would you get the same benefit, the same experience - after killing 1000 of the same thing you just aren't going to be learning anything new and I think the XP intervals reflect that. And I think the developers instituted those rewards in that fashion for a reason - you get some easy XP up front, but eventually, it should start coming from the missions in that area (as far as the areas that have them go).

I agree with the proposal as far as Cerulean Hills, WW, and Searing heights go due to the number of creatures you can find and the time it takes to kill them. In the Orchard however, you can clear 200+ creatures in a single pass that takes 20 minutes if you're dragging your feet.

I just feel that after 1500 kills, XP gain should really come from quests, unless you grind away at it.

As far as people staging their kill totals to rack in XP when new levels are released - ummm, who cares? What's the difference between that, killing a few giants in threnal, and running PoP/Crucible/new quests? You've earned your XP so why shouldn't you get it/

[Impaqt]

/not signed

It's fine the way it is now. Why should you get the same xp for killing the same amount of mobs each time? Why would you get the same benefit, the same experience - after killing 1000 of the same thing you just aren't going to be learning anything new and I think the XP intervals reflect that. And I think the developers instituted those rewards in that fashion for a reason - you get some easy XP up front, but eventually, it should start coming from the missions in that area (as far as the areas that have them go). Yeah, Like the Shroud? Where you can Farm over 10k XP doing 1-4 Runs Over and Over again without any Hit?

I agree with the proposal as far as Cerulean Hills, WW, and Searing heights go due to the number of creatures you can find and the time it takes to kill them. In the Orchard however, you can clear 200+ creatures in a single pass that takes 20 minutes if you're dragging your feet. If your an Arcane or Cleric, I totally Agree.... What about the Melee? I dont bother soloing the Orchard or Vale on my Melee builds once I hit 20 Kills cause its just too Time consuming and not fun..... Yes, My Clerics can clear the Instance in 20 Minutes if I rush..... but t would take me a day and a half and a stack of 1000 Heal potions todo that on my Fighter.

I just feel that after 1500 kills, XP gain should really come from quests, unless you grind away at it. Thats Fine for you..... But One of the benefits the of the Explorer areas the devs have toted since day 1 is SOloability.... Most melee Builds dont have a Prayer of Soloing high end Vale Quests.... and the Though of Soloing through 1500 Kills for XP just isnt apealing.

As far as people staging their kill totals to rack in XP when new levels are released - ummm, who cares? What's the difference between that, killing a few giants in threnal, and running PoP/Crucible/new quests? You've earned your XP so why shouldn't you get it/
Never said I had anything against folks that did that.. I just said its Probobly not what the devs had in mind when they set up the tiers. and I thinks theres a significant difference between 25xp for 1 Giant kill and 32,310 XP for killing one Rat.




Comments Within

[Borror0]

/not signed

It's fine the way it is now. Why should you get the same xp for killing the same amount of mobs each time? Why would you get the same benefit, the same experience - after killing 1000 of the same thing you just aren't going to be learning anything new and I think the XP intervals reflect that.

It makes little sense. I'll take the Vale as an example:

Slay 10 natives of the Vale of Twilight: 285 XP - 28,5 XP per kill
Slay 25 natives of the Vale of Twilight: 526 XP - 35,1 XP per kill
Slay 50 natives of the Vale of Twilight: 855 XP - 34,2 XP per kill
Slay 100 natives of the Vale of Twilight: 1,452 XP - 29,0 XP per kill
Slay 200 natives of the Vale of Twilight: 2,550 XP - 25,5 XP per kill
Slay 400 natives of the Vale of Twilight: 4,710 XP - 23,6 XP per kill
Slay 750 natives of the Vale of Twilight: 8,120 XP - 23,2 XP per kill
Slay 1,500 natives of the Vale of Twilight: 17,217 XP - 23,0 XP per kill
Slay 3,000 natives of the Vale of Twilight: 35,190 XP - 23,5 XP per kill

[Theboz]

dont agree


poeple complain there is not enough to keep people busy between mods, wel this keeps me busy and while im capped im not wasting XP, thats what would happend if the tiers were lower for Xp in the explorer area.


people who were capped would not go into the explorer areas, not until they raised the level cap, meaning there would be less people running the vale and other explorer areas and less people running quest.


I already have 2 toons over 3000 and one 4500+ in the vale.

Keeping it higher makes it feel like you worked for it, making it smaller would make it less of an accomplishment and you would never get the satifaction.


A good analogy, lets say you are taking a trip with your kids and its a long trip, every 100 miles you hear," Are we there yet" and they will not shut up until you give them something(xp), does that teach them anything, nope. By the time they get to the destination. they would careless about where they were going, all they want is that hand out you gave them every 100 miles or so.


This post sounds just like the little kids, saying to there parents, "Are we there Yet" over and over again, well learn self control and when you do finally get to the goal of 5000 or more kills it will feel much better then getting it every 100 or 200 or what ever.

[MageLL]

My last characters started in the vale at 12. To this date (already capped), he has not hit 3k mark on either slayer. I did other stuff of course, but the kill count required to get the xp is so high by the time you reach it, it is of no value. I actually don't mind the big payoff, but would not like to waste it. So a trickle xp or simply preventing capped players from progression on slayers would suffice until new levels are released.

[Impaqt]

dont agree


poeple complain there is not enough to keep people busy between mods, wel this keeps me busy and while im capped im not wasting XP, thats what would happend if the tiers were lower for Xp in the explorer area.


people who were capped would not go into the explorer areas, not until they raised the level cap, meaning there would be less people running the vale and other explorer areas and less people running quest.


I already have 2 toons over 3000 and one 4500+ in the vale.

Keeping it higher makes it feel like you worked for it, making it smaller would make it less of an accomplishment and you would never get the satifaction.


A good analogy, lets say you are taking a trip with your kids and its a long trip, every 100 miles you hear," Are we there yet" and they will not shut up until you give them something(xp), does that teach them anything, nope. By the time they get to the destination. they would careless about where they were going, all they want is that hand out you gave them every 100 miles or so.


This post sounds just like the little kids, saying to there parents, "Are we there Yet" over and over again, well learn self control and when you do finally get to the goal of 5000 or more kills it will feel much better then getting it every 100 or 200 or what ever.

Well, I see your point from a Capped Character perspective.... But for Players who arent capped its a grind. I have lots of capped characters and I'd rather lose 2k-4k xp at a time rather than 17k-32k Chunks....


Seems to me the biggest opponants to this idea are the ones who only wish to save the XP for level cap raises......


My last characters started in the vale at 12. To this date (already capped), he has not hit 3k mark on either slayer. I did other stuff of course, but the kill count required to get the xp is so high by the time you reach it, it is of no value. I actually don't mind the big payoff, but would not like to waste it. So a trickle xp or simply preventing capped players from progression on slayers would suffice until new levels are released.

Great Point and easy way to fix this for the XP issue the horders face...... Once your capped, Slayer Progression Stops... I suppose Explorer and Rare would have to continue, but that XP is minor compared to the slayers anyway.

[Lithic]

Great Point and easy way to fix this for the XP issue the horders face...... Once your capped, Slayer Progression Stops... I suppose Explorer and Rare would have to continue, but that XP is minor compared to the slayers anyway.

Please dont try to take away a capped players ability to advance slayer counts. Its about the only non-loot run thing to do these days, and I personally enjoy it. Sure you might waste some exp, but theres so very much in every new module that it really shouldnt be a concern for anyone.

[MageLL]

Please dont try to take away a capped players ability to advance slayer counts. Its about the only non-loot run thing to do these days, and I personally enjoy it. Sure you might waste some exp, but theres so very much in every new module that it really shouldnt be a concern for anyone.

Okay you peeked my curiosity. You actually like watching the slayer numbers go up until they stop for no benifit?

Would that be kinda like putting a jump counter on your character screen. You have jumped 5000 times. We are no longer counting your jumps.

[Lithic]

Okay you peeked my curiosity. You actually like watching the slayer numbers go up until they stop for no benifit?

Would that be kinda like putting a jump counter on your character screen. You have jumped 5000 times. We are no longer counting your jumps.

The benefit? Satisfaction at getting the number to max and getting completion. You know, its the same satisfaction you got getting your exp to 1359999/1360000, or getting your plat to 4.235mill, or getting those uber weapons. Don't knock MY desire to max out one imaginary number when YOU take pleasure in maxing out OTHER imaginary numbers.

Some of us are completionists and want to finish things just because its there.

[Impaqt]

Please dont try to take away a capped players ability to advance slayer counts. Its about the only non-loot run thing to do these days, and I personally enjoy it. Sure you might waste some exp, but theres so very much in every new module that it really shouldnt be a concern for anyone.

That would be a compromise for people who "DOnt want to lose XP" because they are capped..

I agree there is Plenty of XP in this game..... But I also Solo alot.... As I level characters inteh Explorer areas, its just too boring to stick em out past 750 Kills. I'd have to go for hours of playing without gaining any XP at all.

I dont know what the magic COmpromise would be....

I think staging massive amounts of XP for the level cap increase to be pretty darn cheesy.

Maybe a Check box for folks?

"Stop Explorer Slayer Count when character is XP Capped"?

That way, You can Check thatbox if you dont want to lose out on the XP, and if ya just want to keep killing to finish your slayer quest you have that option as well....

[Reisz]

/sign

It's the same xp, just a more distributed way to get it. :)

[Theboz]

Also, people forget that, you dont have to kill anything to get a kill, if someone in your party kills something you get credit.


So, 5000 is not very hard to get. My cleric has soloed about 3000 of his 4500+ total and I have yet to even ransack a chest in the vale


If the op wants this changed then they should takeway the kills from other party member and have it only count the kills your toon kills.

[Barumar]

That would be a compromise for people who "DOnt want to lose XP" because they are capped..

I agree there is Plenty of XP in this game..... But I also Solo alot.... As I level characters inteh Explorer areas, its just too boring to stick em out past 750 Kills. I'd have to go for hours of playing without gaining any XP at all.

I dont know what the magic COmpromise would be....

I think staging massive amounts of XP for the level cap increase to be pretty darn cheesy.

Maybe a Check box for folks?

"Stop Explorer Slayer Count when character is XP Capped"?

That way, You can Check thatbox if you dont want to lose out on the XP, and if ya just want to keep killing to finish your slayer quest you have that option as well....

Great ideas, I like them and hope the Dev's give them some consideration.

I would like to add a request if they do - PLEASE stop spamming (yes spamming) the "Someone is too high level" message all over my screen! Been helping a Guildie get to 20 completions on the Demon Queen and when we duo/trio the pre-Raid quests with our lvl 16 characters this gets REALLY annoying! Now, I realize I can run all the way out and in without killing anything, but they just can't seem to bear it :D

Barumar

[Theboz]

"Stop Explorer Slayer Count when character is XP Capped"?

That way, You can Check thatbox if you dont want to lose out on the XP, and if ya just want to keep killing to finish your slayer quest you have that option as well....




Accually, i would love this then I could kill as many as i can and when I get to 4999, hit the check mark, and bingo no more counting on the slayer, that would be perfect for what you called a cheesy way of playing.

[Impaqt]

Great ideas, I like them and hope the Dev's give them some consideration.

I would like to add a request if they do - PLEASE stop spamming (yes spamming) the "Someone is too high level" message all over my screen! Been helping a Guildie get to 20 completions on the Demon Queen and when we duo/trio the pre-Raid quests with our lvl 16 characters this gets REALLY annoying! Now, I realize I can run all the way out and in without killing anything, but they just can't seem to bear it :D

Barumar


Thats should already be going away with Mod 7 because Slayer areas are going to act like regular quests in regards to completions/kills etc. Even if you are over level, you'll still get your XP at a reduced Rate... By the time your 4+ Levels above the area theres no reason tobe in t hat explorer area anyway.. (Might be an issue with the Desert once the cap goes to 20)

[MageLL]

The benefit? Satisfaction at getting the number to max and getting completion. You know, its the same satisfaction you got getting your exp to 1359999/1360000, or getting your plat to 4.235mill, or getting those uber weapons. Don't knock MY desire to max out one imaginary number when YOU take pleasure in maxing out OTHER imaginary numbers.

Some of us are completionists and want to finish things just because its there.

Think you took that the wrong way. I didn't mean to make you defensive. I was just totally surprised by the fact that somebody actually likes doing that for no benefit... honestly.

[Impaqt]

Accually, i would love this then I could kill as many as i can and when I get to 4999, hit the check mark, and bingo no more counting on the slayer, that would be perfect for what you called a cheesy way of playing.

ACtually, I would only Implement that Checkbox along with the Progression changes I've proposed in the OriginalPost. Your right.. WAY to easy to abuse/Exploit if the Kill COunt totals stayed the same

[ariel7]

I like it, as you shouldn't have to get a reward EVERY time you do something...it like you run goodblades as a level one, even though you're at your lowest level ever you don't get credit for each quickfoot you kill. It's a tiered system. I like it the way it is...you can get really close to your kill count, then as it comes time for you to level, you can get the last 10-20 kills you need and BAM a big boost of xp. It's nice. Sometimes in life you have to save up and think a little more long term for certain goals, this is one of the very few xp-rewarding systems like that in this game

[moorewr]

/signed!

[Impaqt]

Also, people forget that, you dont have to kill anything to get a kill, if someone in your party kills something you get credit. ANd when someone answeres all the paladins questions in Pop, the whole party gets XP as well.... THats the way the system works game wide. Its not a Explorer area mechanic. I think the way XP is distributed to the Party rather than the individual is perfectly acceptable and generally in line with PnP. I've never had a DM award one party memeber more XP because he had a higher Kill COunt before


So, 5000 is not very hard to get. My cleric has soloed about 3000 of his 4500+ total and I have yet to even ransack a chest in the vale I love how people always assume or expcet their personal Playstyle is or should be the same for Everyone else that plays the game. I totally agree that the total number of Kills is not difficult.... Of course, I play mostly CLerics and a WF Wizard... I can totally solo ANY of the explorer ares without a care in the world on them..... On my few melee characters, 5000 is near immpossible to acheive from a solo standpoint. I dont feel my personal Experience on Specific builds should be aplied universally to all Players and characters.


If the op wants this changed then they should takeway the kills from other party member and have it only count the kills your toon kills. See First Comment above

More Comments within

[moorewr]

Great ideas, I like them and hope the Dev's give them some consideration.

I would like to add a request if they do - PLEASE stop spamming (yes spamming) the "Someone is too high level" message all over my screen! Been helping a Guildie get to 20 completions on the Demon Queen and when we duo/trio the pre-Raid quests with our lvl 16 characters this gets REALLY annoying! Now, I realize I can run all the way out and in without killing anything, but they just can't seem to bear it :D

Barumar

They say this will be changed in Mod 7.. where did I see that?

[Impaqt]

They say this will be changed in Mod 7.. where did I see that?

Been in the WDA a While

Players above the quest level limit for slayer, explorer, and rare encounter quests can now advance these quests to completion, but will be receive reduced XP (XP Gained = XP For Goal / (Levels Over Cap + 1)). Any other players present in the area who are not above the quest level limit will not have their quests advanced. No change has been made for groups of players who are all within the min-max level range for an area. The spammy text alerts warning players their quest is not advancing have been replaced with static informational alerts.

** Looks like they already took care of the Spammy Messages permnently as well...

[Ransacked]

What if the system was changed to how you are suggesting Impaqt. More staggered progression for experience rewards. However, change the way the experience is awarded.

Add 1 NPC or multiple NPC's depending on the area that hates the race / tribe you are hunting in the explorer area.
This npc gives you a "bag" or something like that kind of like the tapestry bag.

You go out and every monster you kill towards the slayer goals adds 1 scalp, ear, toe, finger, nose, eyeball, or whatevers into the bag automagically. (Doesn't stop progression from other party members killing stuff and helping you get credit and you don't have to physically loot the body)

These autostack are not trade-able, bound, and can not be split.

Once you are done with the area for your session you can return to the NPC and talk to them.

"Ahh I see you've been busy do you want to claim your bounty?" (this could be flavored text based on class and alignment)
A slider is available like a shop. Where you can sell back your scalps or whatever for experience awards. Similiar to a bounty.

The game would keep track of your personal success as it does now and at a point it would no longer reward you a bounty for that item.

Each piece is worth a specific amount of experience. 1 orc scalp is worth 15xp for example...

This lets all the players that want to horde their pieces for level cap increases do so (and it's no longer cheasy) and it lets those people who like to see continual progression do just that.

(You could also add titles into the game doing this. :) Something else that would be fun to work for.

[Impaqt]

What if the system was changed to how you are suggesting Impaqt. More staggered progression for experience rewards. However, change the way the experience is awarded.

Add 1 NPC or multiple NPC's depending on the area that hates the race / tribe you are hunting in the explorer area.
This npc gives you a "bag" or something like that kind of like the tapestry bag.

You go out and every monster you kill towards the slayer goals adds 1 scalp, ear, toe, finger, nose, eyeball, or whatevers into the bag automagically. (Doesn't stop progression from other party members killing stuff and helping you get credit and you don't have to physically loot the body)

These autostack are not trade-able, bound, and can not be split.

Once you are done with the area for your session you can return to the NPC and talk to them.

"Ahh I see you've been busy you have X amount of things here lists a number."
A slider is available like a shop. Where you can sell back your scalps or whatever for experience awards. Similiar to a bounty.

The game would keep track of your personal success as it does now and at a point it would no longer reward you a bounty for that item.

Each piece is worth a specific amount of experience. 1 orc scalp is worth 15xp for example...

This lets all the players that want to horde their pieces for level cap increases do so (and it's no longer cheasy) and it lets those people who like to see continual progression do just that.

(You could also add titles into the game doing this. :) Something else that would be fun to work for.

Well, thats getting more into the WoW mechanics, but The devs have already said we're going to start seeing that kind of stuff anyway so I wold probobly not have an issue with it....

[Ransacked]

Well, thats getting more into the WoW mechanics, but The devs have already said we're going to start seeing that kind of stuff anyway so I wold probobly not have an issue with it....

How is that going into a WoW mechanic? At least there would be a reason for experience being awarded to your character. As it stands now you hit an arbitrary number and poof you get xp. You would at least have control over it in this manner.


If it feels WoWy to you it's because we're going out into an area and killing 50000 monsters for a reward.
Edit: Is it because it's putting an item into your inventory? I just really fail to see a difference between killing 10 monsters and getting an xp reward versus killing 10 monsters and talking to an npc and relating that you have in fact done so.

Collect 20 tapestries and turn them in for a nifty helmet.

[Laith]

I just really fail to see a difference.corpse looting & carrying of completely arbitrary quest items.

arbitrary in the sense of "one toe? the bastard had 10, and i took ONE??"
or "wait... so that one didn't give me a toe. Does that mean he forgot them, or they were just too gross to cut off?"
or "ok: i'll get you your toes as long as you don't explain what they're for."
:)

actually though, i kinda dig your system as a game mechanic... but i loathe corpse looting. Every fight feels like it's followed with an Easter Egg Hunt.

[wolfy42]

I would rather see experience awarded per 10 kills until you reach the max slayer award for each outdoor area.

The same exp is given per 10 kills the entire time.

For the vale for instance every 10 kills would be worth 250 exp.....always until you hit the max experience possible from slayer.

This would stop people from having 1 kill left etc, but would also allow for solo players to get some form of progress in a short amount of time.

It would work for all levels as well. Cerulean hills would be worth maybe 60 experience per 10 kills maxing out at 2600 experience when you kill 400 enemies.

Total experience awarded from slayer quests would stay the same, but how you actually get to that end amount changes.

[Impaqt]

How is that going into a WoW mechanic? At least there would be a reason for experience being awarded to your character. As it stands now you hit an arbitrary number and poof you get xp. You would at least have control over it in this manner.


If it feels WoWy to you it's because we're going out into an area and killing 50000 monsters for a reward.
Edit: Is it because it's putting an item into your inventory? I just really fail to see a difference between killing 10 monsters and getting an xp reward versus killing 10 monsters and talking to an npc and relating that you have in fact done so.

Collect 20 tapestries and turn them in for a nifty helmet.

I think you May have me COnfused with the "Impaqt" who hated that idea... ;)

I may have said it feels Wowsie, But I also said I wouldnt have a problem with it.....

[Ringos]

I would support something like the OP suggested. I'm not quite sure I'm gonna like it if and when the whole 'collecting bloody toes' thing comes about. I know some guildies have been pickin' up those collectables lately...I just hope it doesn't get outta hand. Soon my Cleric will be out in the forest choppin' wood to sell in town! :)

[ENGRAV0]

Just me, my feelings on the subject. I would prefer they just leave it alone. I, for one, enjoy earning those kills between level ups, getting right to the brink of a large XP award, and then when the cap goes up, I don't have to spend days (or hours, in my case) getting the same XP. I can run into those explorer areas, get my kills, get my XP, then go level and spend my APs.

As far as leveling way too fast as soon as the level cap is raised, well, I earned it, I should benefit. I just preplanned my advancement. If your fighter (and mine, for that matter) can't do it without great cost, which kinda makes sense to me, then form a party. Socialize while getting the kills. It is one of the things I enjoy doing, to take it away so that everyone gets XP for each and every kill, or XP at smaller gaps, would absolutely ruin it for me. I wont speak of others, not my place, but for me, it would absolutely make even going in there a waste. In the Orchard alone, with the right Rares showing up, I can get over 300 kills in one instance, and do it on a routine basis. Hehe, I even bring in my other account and leave him at the door to help him level faster, and get loot. Something many would say is wrong, but hey, I pay for that second account, it is my option to do with it as I please.

[Blagrak]

Impaqt, I'm not sure I understand how getting your slayer totals up a point where it's near the next stage and then holding off on earning the xp is cheese/an exploit. I must have missed the dev post that claimed it was such. You are not getting X thousand xp for killing one rat - you're getting it for killing all of the preceeding rats, something that took time and effort. And I don't really see how your suggested implementation of disributed xp would change that. There's not a bit of difference between 25 xp from giants in Threnal and 35000 xp for killing 7000 Orchard/Gianthold/Vale inhabitants.

Then there's your tangent about fighters not being able to solo areas/quests - those areas weren't created so people could solo them, whatever you'd like to believe. They were a response to people who asked for outdoor areas to explore/gain XP in instead of having to enter quests. The fact that you can solo some of the earlier areas on a melee is irrelevant as to why they are there.

Frankly if they changed it so that XP is distributed, I'd roll my eyes and move on, but to call stacking up slayer kills an exploit is asinine.

[Impaqt]

Impaqt, I'm not sure I understand how getting your slayer totals up a point where it's near the next stage and then holding off on earning the xp is cheese/an exploit. I must have missed the dev post that claimed it was such. You are not getting X thousand xp for killing one rat - you're getting it for killing all of the preceeding rats, something that took time and effort. And I don't really see how your suggested implementation of disributed xp would change that. There's not a bit of difference between 25 xp from giants in Threnal and 35000 xp for killing 7000 Orchard/Gianthold/Vale inhabitants.

Then there's your tangent about fighters not being able to solo areas/quests - those areas weren't created so people could solo them, whatever you'd like to believe. They were a response to people who asked for outdoor areas to explore/gain XP in instead of having to enter quests. The fact that you can solo some of the earlier areas on a melee is irrelevant as to why they are there.

Frankly if they changed it so that XP is distributed, I'd roll my eyes and move on, but to call stacking up slayer kills an exploit is asinine.

I'm not here to get into any argument about whats cheesy and whats not. I find it low budget. If you do not, thats totally fine by me.

How come we dont get ALL the xp we lost when the level cap goes up then? I ran 1000 Quests in the 6 months of being capped at 16... All that XP is Gone forever. Never to be seen.... But I can go into the Orchard and Kill one thing for 30 thousand xp? the 2999 Mobs I killed in various Quests count for Nothing... Why should the 2999 Mobs in the vale?

While Not designed specifically for Soloing, the devs have make mention many many times about the explorer areas being suitable for soloing. And heres a newsflash for ya, People dont Solo to be anti-social. SOmetimes I dont have Time to group up, Sometimes I just LIKE to solo stuff. I can get a group whenever I want... But sometimes I like to solo.

[ENGRAV0]

Actualy, you lose nothing while capped, if you go into a quest for the first time when you are capped, as soon as you go in once the cap is raised you will still get the first time bonus. Any XP you are awarded while capped might be a waste, but that only applies to XP awarded when you are capped. If you prepaired to get it while capped, but didn't actualy meet the rquirement while capped, then the cap goes up and you suddenly meet those requirements, you didn't lose, or abuse anything. You planned.

Here is how I see it: Some players have an issue where some other players prep themselves for the next level raise by earning the slayers. They don't feel any reason in prepairing themselves for that slayer mark is worth the time. On the other hand, some players spend a great deal of time prepairing to meet the next mark, then ensuring they do NOT go over the mark until the level is raised. It is a concern for some, and a concern for others to make sure, or at least voice their concerns over the work they have done to be ready to go straight to the next level, or even beyond that in a matter of an hour, bouncing between the explorer areas. Thus, in some players eyes, they have achieved an unfair advantage, when in actuality, they planned ahead, and used something that was available to everyone, even though to some it appeared to be a waste of time.

I use the explorer times to help guide along individuals who are new to playing certain characters, and that is why I prefer to not see it changed.

[adamkatt]

I personally dont mind the numbers. Frist run out you do make decent xp and if your want the rares well thats maybe 2 -5 total runs..

[Barumar]

Thats should already be going away with Mod 7 because Slayer areas are going to act like regular quests in regards to completions/kills etc. Even if you are over level, you'll still get your XP at a reduced Rate... By the time your 4+ Levels above the area theres no reason tobe in t hat explorer area anyway.. (Might be an issue with the Desert once the cap goes to 20)

I hope they implement it in a way that does STOP the spamming!

Funny thing about what you say "Theres no reason to be in that explorer area anyway'. While I agree with that for many (like WW, the Hills, or Searing Heights) I HAVE TO enter the Desert to re-run the Demon Queen pre-quests and DQ1! I wish I did not, but that is another topic :)

I like the check box idea, as not only would it stop the counter for those that want to 'save' the XP, but it would stop the Spamming too - assuming they implement it properly :D !

Barumar

[Impaqt]

Actualy, you lose nothing while capped, if you go into a quest for the first time when you are capped, as soon as you go in once the cap is raised you will still get the first time bonus. Any XP you are awarded while capped might be a waste, but that only applies to XP awarded when you are capped. If you prepaired to get it while capped, but didn't actualy meet the rquirement while capped, then the cap goes up and you suddenly meet those requirements, you didn't lose, or abuse anything. You planned.

Actually, You Absolutely do. In order to get XP for Any quest once the cap goes up, you must rerun the quest... You do not incur multiple run Penalties. THis is not that same as not losing XP. Youy also Permanently lose the "First Time Bonus" awards for any quest you run while capped.

Here is how I see it: Some players have an issue where some other players prep themselves for the next level raise by earning the slayers. They don't feel any reason in prepairing themselves for that slayer mark is worth the time. On the other hand, some players spend a great deal of time prepairing to meet the next mark, then ensuring they do NOT go over the mark until the level is raised. It is a concern for some, and a concern for others to make sure, or at least voice their concerns over the work they have done to be ready to go straight to the next level, or even beyond that in a matter of an hour, bouncing between the explorer areas. Thus, in some players eyes, they have achieved an unfair advantage, when in actuality, they planned ahead, and used something that was available to everyone, even though to some it appeared to be a waste of time.
How fast another player gets to level cap once the cap is raised is of absolutely no concern to me. I have no problem with people taking advantage of the mechanic if they choose to. Thats not the motivation for this thread. The motivation is to provide everyone, From the Casual Gamer to the Powergamer Paladin an Even contiung benefit from the explorer areas.

I use the explorer times to help guide along individuals who are new to playing certain characters, and that is why I prefer to not see it changed.



How exactly can you prep your Slayer totals for Level cap raise and continue to help guild other players? ANd if your not Preping, then how would acheiving XP every 200-400 Kills rather than 1500-2000 hinder your humanitarian motives?

[Impaqt]

I hope they implement it in a way that does STOP the spamming!

Funny thing about what you say "Theres no reason to be in that explorer area anyway'. While I agree with that for many (like WW, the Hills, or Searing Heights) I HAVE TO enter the Desert to re-run the Demon Queen pre-quests and DQ1! I wish I did not, but that is another topic :)


Barumar

Which is why I put the exception regarding the desert in my reply, However, it seems the exception is moot if ya read the WDA entry. It looks like you will still gain some XP no matter what your level is.... FOr Example, Cerulean Hills is L1-4. The Smallest XP you can get is 75 for your first 10 slayers if I go in there with a Level 20 Character I stil get XP

(XP Gained = 75 / (16 + 1)) means I get 4 XP for killing those 10 Mobs.....

[ENGRAV0]

How would I prep my slayer kills while at the same time helping guildies out?

Let me explain how "I" do this:

I look at which caster, cleric is at what count. I switch characters when one get's too close. While earning my kills, via letting the, hmmm, less experienced players kill, and me supporting them as backup, or even teaching them which weapons to use to have a better impaqt on the enemy mobs (little humor, hope it didnt seem in bad taste, was in fun).

More simplistic answer, I watch my kill count, if one character gets too close, I change to another character, while still supporting the less experienced.

How would changing it affect me? That too is easy, once you pass a mark, you have lost that XP. Right now, with the mark being set apart as it is, I can do a great amount of socializing and, for lack of a better word, training without fear of running out of characters to switch to. If it was only 200 apart, I would run out well before I could actualy accomplish much. When you are trying to teach someone something, it isn't feasable to only kill one thing and expect someone to catch on without repeating over and over. Some things are easy, go vorpal that guy. Ok, but some things are random, Go use that Smiting Bastard sword you swear by, and see how long it takes, ok, go kill the entire mob. Great, now use this Smiting Rapier and go at it. See a difference what the crit range can make?

This is just an example of what I am talking about, not the only thing that benefits from this. As far as casual gamer vs power gamer, right now, they both benefit from the way it is, with the time between level caps, there is no rush to get the count up high in a hurry.

[Impaqt]

ok, SO were back to the I have 9 Capped characters.. DOesnt everyone? argument..... fine.....

I dont see it that way at all... We'll jsut have to agree to disagree here.

[ENGRAV0]

Deal.

But some aren't capped, sort of. LoL. Holding them at 15 to support some of the guildies when we do the Desert.

[Blagrak]

I'm not here to get into any argument about whats cheesy and whats not. I find it low budget. If you do not, thats totally fine by me.

How come we dont get ALL the xp we lost when the level cap goes up then? I ran 1000 Quests in the 6 months of being capped at 16... All that XP is Gone forever. Never to be seen.... But I can go into the Orchard and Kill one thing for 30 thousand xp? the 2999 Mobs I killed in various Quests count for Nothing... Why should the 2999 Mobs in the vale?

While Not designed specifically for Soloing, the devs have make mention many many times about the explorer areas being suitable for soloing. And heres a newsflash for ya, People dont Solo to be anti-social. SOmetimes I dont have Time to group up, Sometimes I just LIKE to solo stuff. I can get a group whenever I want... But sometimes I like to solo.

Huh, for not wanting to get in an argument about things you sure run your mouth fast and loose about them.

You lose the XP for quests when capped because you completed the quest. Because you don't complete the slayer quest, you don't get XP for it. I hope that clears that up. Yup, working as intended.

And I'm glad you recognize that the explorer areas aren't designed specifically for soloing, suitable for it or not. So why do they need to be redesigned for it? If you get the same XP per mob later than sooner, and that's the problem, why not drop the pretenses and ask for XP for each individual mob you kill?

p.s. Here's a newsflash for ya - nobody cares about how you play the game, or the whys and wherefores of you soloing. Sorry if I gave that impression.

[Impaqt]

Huh, for not wanting to get in an argument about things you sure run your mouth fast and loose about them.

You lose the XP for quests when capped because you completed the quest. Because you don't complete the slayer quest, you don't get XP for it. I hope that clears that up. Yup, working as intended.

And I'm glad you recognize that the explorer areas aren't designed specifically for soloing, suitable for it or not. So why do they need to be redesigned for it? If you get the same XP per mob later than sooner, and that's the problem, why not drop the pretenses and ask for XP for each individual mob you kill?

p.s. Here's a newsflash for ya - nobody cares about how you play the game, or the whys and wherefores of you soloing. Sorry if I gave that impression.

I'm entitled to my opinion as much as anyone else. Sorry youdont see that.

Next time the level cap goes up, try parking a character in a quest before it happens. When the servers come back up you should be able to finish the quest and get the Xp Right?

This isnt redesigning the Exporer areas for soloers. It provides an equal Playing field for everyone. Grouped or not. The Xp isnt changing, just being distributed more evenly. If turbine felt providing XP for every mob was appropriet, I'd be fine with that too.

YOU may not care about my playstyle, but many do. However that has nothing to do with the proposal.

[Borror0]

Here's a newsflash for ya - nobody cares about how you play the game, or the whys and wherefores of you soloing. Sorry if I gave that impression.

That's false.

If you'd really not care about his opinion, you wouldn't be here arguing with him. When I don't care about someone's opinion's, I just ignore him. He could say something totally against my point of view, I just leave him be as that person is worthless to me and doesn't derseve any second of my time. His playstyle backs up his argument, as one would be silly to argue about something out of his experience.

[Spell]

Turbine should've left the xp style of explorer areas like the Steam Tunnels, small groups for small xp (2-5 monsters for 20-50xp).
Sure, there's a couple of these areas still around for low level characters. You can forget about getting a quick 200xp at level 14 just to level up.
It's bad enough we have to grind quests like crazy for components/ingredients (god help us when crafting comes in) but hitting the 4K kill count for a slayer area is insane.

[ENGRAV0]

It may seem insane, but I try to make it fun. I accidently capped out on kills on one character in the Vale and Orchard, kinda sux, but eh, oh well. Still, I (as I will only speak for myself here) find it very nice the way they have done it. Even though you can not get that 1 little point, you CAN work towards the next goal, and you have several options fo which to take. Do you take the 5k mark, or the 7.5k mark? It is up to you. If you aren't a person that likes encounter areas, then you wont get any of that, which is a choice you had made. No one made it for you, if you think running out there, getting not too much and then all of a sudden a HUGE XP bonus comes in, then good. Nice, seems to be intended as the way it was designed.

I could be wrong, and if so, that is fine, but I certainly wont be spending my time out there nearly as much if they were to change them all to less gapped and less rewarding. When I get that nice huge chunk of XP come level raise, I will be glad I worked on it all this time. If they were to change it, then I would feel like all that work was for very little.

Again, it is what you make of it. If you make it out to be too much work, then just wait and run the quests, if you think it is a nice reward, then go that route. Either way, it is up to you. I made my choices, and have and will benefit from them greatly. At current, I should be able to get almost a full level off of just encounter areas, and probably less than an hour if I work a little more on it now to get it even closer.

This will end up being very much so appreciated, my time will begin to be divided here in less than 2 days, so I will start watching the forums for all the nice builds and such that the monk will be providing. I will enjoy playing one game, while watching which things they are fixing with this mod. Then when I finaly DO log in here, I will have to spend minimal time getting the levels that everyone else was having to work at because they didnt feel the work in between was worth it.

[penumbra]

i LOL@contradictorygamemechanics


i run quests repeatedly, i get less XP each time.

i run explorer areas repeatedly, i get more XP each time...

[Uska]

Yes a thousands times yes.

[Blagrak]

There's nothing wrong with the way things are set up now. These areas were never intended to be solo XP collection areas, suitable for it or not. And I'm against implementing game mechanics based around solo play. It's a waste of development time and resources. Frankly the solo setting for instanced quests is the same.

This game was designed around a group mechanic, and that's the way it should be. If you can solo things, kudos to you, but designing things for soloists in a multiplayer game is ********.

[moorewr]

:confused:

All this does is drop more, if smaller, tasty pellets when you step on the plate. It doesn't change how the zones work or how much XP they give you.

/signed (again!)


There's nothing wrong with the way things are set up now. These areas were never intended to be solo XP collection areas, suitable for it or not. And I'm against implementing game mechanics based around solo play. It's a waste of development time and resources. Frankly the solo setting for instanced quests is the same.

This game was designed around a group mechanic, and that's the way it should be. If you can solo things, kudos to you, but designing things for soloists in a multiplayer game is ********.

[Impaqt]

There's nothing wrong with the way things are set up now. These areas were never intended to be solo XP collection areas, suitable for it or not. And I'm against implementing game mechanics based around solo play. It's a waste of development time and resources. Frankly the solo setting for instanced quests is the same.

This game was designed around a group mechanic, and that's the way it should be. If you can solo things, kudos to you, but designing things for soloists in a multiplayer game is ********.

Please explain how this change skews the explorer areas for Soloing an deters people from Grouping?

The XP is the Same.
The Mobs are the Same.
It doesnt change the ability to Group any way you want.

[Eelpout]

The outdoor adventure areas (like the Cerulean Hills through the Vale of Twilight) are extremely popular for solo play, and were designed primarily for solo or small groups as well as for people that seek persistent progress in variable length play sessions.

Virtually all of our dungeons up through level six outside of the quest chains have a "solo" difficulty available - by level six, we found that most solo players preferred playing on the "normal" difficulty setting.

There's quite a bit of solo content in DDO these days.


Looks here like there is a dev saying that they were DESIGNED primarily for SOLO or small groups. I like the idea of breaking up the higher tiers of xp progression. However, I would like to see them take some of the xp from the high tiers and sprinkle that into smaller increments once you hit 400 Kills, I would like it if they were smaller amounts of xp so that the could still have big chunks at the 750, 1500, 3000+ levels. That way people get the best of both worlds and the total xp wouldn't be changed. For instance if they lowered the 1500 kills xp by 3 to 4k and gave you a couple of way points in between for 1.5 to 2k xp. That way you are still getting a little encouragement to keep fighting, and you also still get that big bonus once you hit the main number.

[Impaqt]

Thanks for finding that quote.... I looked breifly, but was unsuccessful....

I like the Mixed rewards idea as well.....

[VonBek]

People dont Solo to be anti-social. SOmetimes I dont have Time to group up, Sometimes I just LIKE to solo stuff. I can get a group whenever I want... But sometimes I like to solo.

Yep. Short breaks from work, with no time to complete a quest, but wanting to do something besides stare at the AH. Evaluating new gear, tactics, or spells after leveling. "Warming up" before questing. And yes, sometimes getting quiet time to regenerate mental equilibrium.

[FluffyDucky]

I agree with OP. Actually the smaller the increment the better. I see nothing wrong with getting it down to XP for each kill, in fact that would allow the devs to scale the XP to the difficulty of the mob. More XP for a higher level mob, less for weaker mobs.