Mod 6? is it a raid? rant?

[jaitee]

so is this a raid?

ok so lets assume this in my view

so i return from an long break, and i see people saying, yea man, new raid, its super kwel!!! big boss! lots of hp on this boss MAN!! awsome!!!! its a REAL raid!! i was kinda excited for once returning..

but then i finally did the so called raid today, and i spent most of my time standing around, watching, you know, kinda like 2 people basically run the whole thing, then we fight this red demon thing, and they are like ok you and you and you tank him, cleric heal!!

the rest stand around and watch or something..

then we fight this red thing again, and i would spell his dumb long name but why? should i?

so we proceed to do it, and wow at this point im soo bored, i was planning on going afk, till they were done cause i was just standing around for no reason

then at the end there isnt even raid loot? man was i excited to beat it, and stand around for an hour to not receive anything. not like it matters, i was just thinking, wow i wanna see whats on this list of raid items

so, my question is? is this really a raid? i had the impression it was a raid? or is TSE with all the pre recs for a quest?

im sorry, but the whole crafting thing in ddo kinda sucks, and this is my opinion, so be sure to take it lightly, after saying this of course....

i learn that, that whole raid is basically based off of crafting some lame items(ya you can say what you want, even if it is godly, you can say i got this and i got that, yea really its still lame)

so my point is, i thought this was a RAID, you know like kwel we beat it guys!!! lets open this chest and see what kind of epic item we are getting.

but it was just a poor crafting system implemented into the game in my opinion

more to it, this raid seemed like something the Devs threw together while eating brunch one morning, honestly, never had i been this bored before in a raid, even titan was at least amusing to watch.

1st you spam your attacks in part one, then you kill mini bosses, in a tiny little maze, then you do a whole big room full of puzzles with an online solver, then you watch a few tanks kill a demon, and repeat it again?

OK SO, READ THIS BEFORE YOU REPLY

i understand, just because you dont get raid items, doesnt mean it cant be a raid ~ ya understandable

i understand that this raid only requires a small size brain to figure out ~ very understandable

i understand that this was the worst mod in DDO history ~ even worst then destroying mod 5



oh and to end this off, yea, i dunno why im crying here, whine? but i paid my sub, to come and see new stuff, and yes, i did enjoy it, i was very excited to be back, new raid, new so called crafting, 6 new quests, level cap increase

but, its sad you know, that i log on, the whole list of friends i had, never even logs on anymore, at any given time, even on the weekends, the LFG panel looks dead, the crafting system is just horrible(who ever came up with the crafting system, you guys need to fire him, i dont even see how you guys can even call that crafting)

well i paid my 15 bucs, ill be here for another month atleast... to be a forum troll, im not going anywhere anytime soon, but when i take my next break, i hope to still see this game still doing well and merged into a single server

DIScuss ~ flame ~ yell ~ be mean ~ insult my mother ~ tell me to GTFO!! i will still reply

anyways thanks for reading

[Vhlad]

My main gripe is that instead of making things interesting and difficult with triggered events and lots of specifically scripted AI behaviour, they just gave everything a billion hp.

It's not a "here is my weak spot which I will reveal to you at random times please kill me" boss (which is good) but it's not a very exciting boss either. Like sure, it's a little better than the titan in that you're not herding the boss to stand over a giant laser and blasting him SIX TIMES (you'd think the titan would catch on and avoid the big red glowing thing by then, but I guess logic/realism/storyline-driven depth is out the window considering his entire chamber is a specifically designed instance built to kill him, with seemingly no other function and no way for him to exit). The reaver isn't much better either (hello, I will give you fly buffs so that you may hover above me where I refuse to raise my arms to hit you so you can kill me safely and open levers to shut down my happy device which you couldn't have gotten to if I did not make you fly (never mind the fact that there's even a little tiny spikey tunnel that takes people to levers that allow them to resurrect and open the barrier to shut down the device to begin with, like really how/why did that get there?)). So from an immersion standpoint, I like the shroud a little more, but I still have issues...

In part 4 when he starts flying, his hp goes to full and he just flies in a straight line and shoots in a straight line. It's pretty lame. I would have much preferred (and would have been more entertained/excited) if he flew around with a little more enthusiasm (i.e. not in a straight line) and actually aimed the fireballs at the players (i.e. not throwing fireballs in a straight line where NO ONE is standing), and if his hp did not zap to full while he was flying (making attacks during that time entirely pointless) and then zap back to where his hp were before he poofed (sillyness). He doesnt do anything interesting in part 5 either. He just stands around, paces in the middle, throws fireballs, and sometimes warps people to him. The fact that he has so much hp and that there is nothing else going on makes the fight seem boring.

The brute force method of the Abbot was really fun because you had infernos (that you could live through) and encasements and all these undead spawns, and he'd be throwing spells and trying to telekinesis people into the death water and warping all over the place, and you had to kill him FAST before he poofed again or you'd have to endure another wave of undead while he warps to his podium and regains his health. It was REALLY fun. People would yell INFERNO and we'd all run to clerics who were spamming quicken mass heals and we'd be drinking fire pro potions and using fire shield clickies, firestorm greaves, helm swapping, doing EVERYTHING to survive, it was crazy! They had an awesome thing there, but they ruined it by neutering the abbot and making the puzzles mandatory. The puzzles make no sense (hello, let me warp you to rooms where you can acquire items to defeat me?!) and are plagued with bugs and lag issues and they really make it so not fun for bringing people who are not familiar with the quest or who have poor twitch skills, because they will spoil things for everyone since you cannot choose who does what puzzles. But before that epic ruining of the most energy rush, adrenaline rush, FUN raid I've ever played in DDO, the Abbot was great. The whole, gotta have HUGE DPS and kill him quick before he ports thing just made it so exciting.

bah.

[FluffyCalico]

Um let me make this as simple as possible for you.
No matter what you may think a raid should be a raid is a quest or quest chain that you can take in more than 6 people. Nothing more and nothing less.

[Twerpp]

I remember a lot of us asking for a big nasty beatdown fest like Tempest Spine, with the non-flagging of Reaver, and a big brawl with the end-boss. I really do recall a LOT of us clamoring for such a raid. They delivered it. I love the quest..I think its my third favorite ever after Gianthold Tor and Tempest Spine.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I remember a lot of us asking for a big nasty beatdown fest like Tempest Spine, with the non-flagging of Reaver, and a big brawl with the end-boss. I really do recall a LOT of us clamoring for such a raid. They delivered it. I love the quest..I think its my third favorite ever after Gianthold Tor and Tempest Spine.

Um...this doesn't seem anything like TS, sorry they haven't delivered on that request.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

but then i finally did the so called raid today, and i spent most of my time standing around, watching, you know, kinda like 2 people basically run the whole thing, then we fight this red demon thing, and they are like ok you and you and you tank him, cleric heal!!

the rest stand around and watch or something..

That's a bad group. Everyone should be contributing to the killing...


so we proceed to do it, and wow at this point im soo bored, i was planning on going afk, till they were done cause i was just standing around for no reason

Stop standing, hit him.




i learn that, that whole raid is basically based off of crafting some lame items(ya you can say what you want, even if it is godly, you can say i got this and i got that, yea really its still lame)

I don't like the crafting system but if you think these items are lame you weren't paying attention. Some of them are game breakingly powerful and I fear for what happens if the game is "rebalanced" for them.



more to it, this raid seemed like something the Devs threw together while eating brunch one morning, honestly, never had i been this bored before in a raid, even titan was at least amusing to watch.

Do you just watch in every raid you're in?


1st you spam your attacks in part one, then you kill mini bosses, in a tiny little maze, then you do a whole big room full of puzzles with an online solver, then you watch a few tanks kill a demon, and repeat it again?

Um, you don't have to use a solver, a huge number of players actually figure it out themselves...

I have to agree that the pt1 beatdown is repetative and too long.


i understand that this was the worst mod in DDO history ~ even worst then destroying mod 5

Not sure how you come to that conclusion...the grind aspect is annoying but there are some interesting quests.



oh and to end this off, yea, i dunno why im crying here, whine?

Beats me, I just got bored of reading and stopped at this point...

[Borror0]

I remember a lot of us asking for a big nasty beatdown fest like Tempest Spine, with the non-flagging of Reaver, and a big brawl with the end-boss. I really do recall a LOT of us clamoring for such a raid. They delivered it. I love the quest..I think its my third favorite ever after Gianthold Tor and Tempest Spine.

I think they ruined the fun by adding a timer to it, or by giving rewards before the end chest. Makes of it a huge grind. I like the quest, but...

Btw, my two favorite quests are Gwylan's and XC.

[MrCow]

Like sure, it's a little better than the titan in that you're not herding the boss to stand over a giant laser and blasting him SIX TIMES (you'd think the titan would catch on and avoid the big red glowing thing by then

The Warforged Titan has an INT between 0 to 2. Based on that I'm not completely surprised he doesn't quite understand that big red crystals over his head cause large doses of pain.

[Vhlad]

I remember a lot of us asking for a big nasty beatdown fest like Tempest Spine, with the non-flagging of Reaver, and a big brawl with the end-boss. I really do recall a LOT of us clamoring for such a raid. They delivered it. I love the quest..I think its my third favorite ever after Gianthold Tor and Tempest Spine.

Abbot, brute force method, was the PERFECT beatdown fest. That raid was so fun (see the last paragraph of my post above) and there was no re-flagging and, in fact, there wasn't even a 3 day timer so everyone was super super excited about the "new raid mechanic". They gave it a timer, which is fine really, but we were so demoralized when they made the puzzles 100% required. It seemed like a devs vs players: 'oh you didnt do it my way so now you suffer' kind of thing, where they pounded the encounter with so much stupidity that 0.00001% of players even bother with it now.

The entertainment, difficulty, everything. It was fun at release. Now the abbot himself is weaker and there are fewer undead (less exciting) and the foobard puzzles are required.

[Vhlad]

The Warforged Titan has an INT between 0 to 2. Based on that I'm not completely surprised he doesn't quite understand that big red crystals over his head cause large doses of pain.

How'd you find out his int!?

oh oh, it's in the monsters of eberron from wotc. (bottom of http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20040511a)

Abilities: Str 28, Dex 8, Con -- , Int 3, Wis 11, Cha 1
Warforged titans are not true living constructs like other warforged; they are barely sentient, with just enough intelligence to follow changing commands in the heat of battle.

Oh man! Those things have charge and trample and 32 jump! It should be flying all over the place and pounding the hell out of us. What a limp titan we have ><

[MrCow]

How'd you find out his int!?

oh oh, it's in the monsters of eberron from wotc. (bottom of http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20040511a)

Well... that and all things with an INT that low in DDO can't be hit by social skills.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Oh man! Those things have charge and trample and 32 jump! It should be flying all over the place and pounding the hell out of us. What a limp titan we have ><

Yup, we have a lot of monsters that are pale imitations of what they should be

[Vhlad]

Yup, we have a lot of monsters that are pale imitations of what they should be

DDO Source !

I can dream right?

The things they can do with that engine. *drools*

If an MMO comes out with the source engine, I'll be all over it. I don't care WHAT it is. It could be called happy panda barney butterfly cupcake sunshine joy joy, and I'd still... well no, alright fine, I WOULD care what it is.

But still. I love the phsyics, graphics, etc. It runs well on older computers too. There are counterstrike: source servers that have 60 players, so I imagine it would work for an instanced MMO.

Probably, most of the issues I have with DDO are inherent to the engine (in terms of living environment, interactability, object physics, etc). The devs are doing what they can with what they have, so I give them some slack.

Really though, what's wrong with source? I see these companies doing in-house engines (vanguard, tabula rasa, hellgate london) and they don't look as good, require WAY more resources, and have weak object physics/interactability. Age of conan is going to be a mega resource hog and I have a feeling its subscriptions will suffer because most people will require a computer upgrade to play it and that will turn them off (though its engine will probably be decent since funcom did a good job with dreamfall: the longest journey), but I wish more companies would either use source or something just as good.

[Boldrin]

so is this a raid?

ok so lets assume this in my view

so i return from an long break, and i see people saying, yea man, new raid, its super kwel!!! big boss! lots of hp on this boss MAN!! awsome!!!! its a REAL raid!! i was kinda excited for once returning..

but then i finally did the so called raid today, and i spent most of my time standing around, watching, you know, kinda like 2 people basically run the whole thing, then we fight this red demon thing, and they are like ok you and you and you tank him, cleric heal!!

the rest stand around and watch or something..

then we fight this red thing again, and i would spell his dumb long name but why? should i?

so we proceed to do it, and wow at this point im soo bored, i was planning on going afk, till they were done cause i was just standing around for no reason

then at the end there isnt even raid loot? man was i excited to beat it, and stand around for an hour to not receive anything. not like it matters, i was just thinking, wow i wanna see whats on this list of raid items

so, my question is? is this really a raid? i had the impression it was a raid? or is TSE with all the pre recs for a quest?

im sorry, but the whole crafting thing in ddo kinda sucks, and this is my opinion, so be sure to take it lightly, after saying this of course....

i learn that, that whole raid is basically based off of crafting some lame items(ya you can say what you want, even if it is godly, you can say i got this and i got that, yea really its still lame)

so my point is, i thought this was a RAID, you know like kwel we beat it guys!!! lets open this chest and see what kind of epic item we are getting.

but it was just a poor crafting system implemented into the game in my opinion

more to it, this raid seemed like something the Devs threw together while eating brunch one morning, honestly, never had i been this bored before in a raid, even titan was at least amusing to watch.

1st you spam your attacks in part one, then you kill mini bosses, in a tiny little maze, then you do a whole big room full of puzzles with an online solver, then you watch a few tanks kill a demon, and repeat it again?

OK SO, READ THIS BEFORE YOU REPLY

i understand, just because you dont get raid items, doesnt mean it cant be a raid ~ ya understandable

i understand that this raid only requires a small size brain to figure out ~ very understandable

i understand that this was the worst mod in DDO history ~ even worst then destroying mod 5



oh and to end this off, yea, i dunno why im crying here, whine? but i paid my sub, to come and see new stuff, and yes, i did enjoy it, i was very excited to be back, new raid, new so called crafting, 6 new quests, level cap increase

but, its sad you know, that i log on, the whole list of friends i had, never even logs on anymore, at any given time, even on the weekends, the LFG panel looks dead, the crafting system is just horrible(who ever came up with the crafting system, you guys need to fire him, i dont even see how you guys can even call that crafting)

well i paid my 15 bucs, ill be here for another month atleast... to be a forum troll, im not going anywhere anytime soon, but when i take my next break, i hope to still see this game still doing well and merged into a single server

DIScuss ~ flame ~ yell ~ be mean ~ insult my mother ~ tell me to GTFO!! i will still reply

anyways thanks for reading

I'd hate to be on your server, there's always LFMs up on mine. What class of character were you running because no class should just be standing around in the shroud. Find yourself something to do

[MrWizard]

I was never a fan of the raids, except tempest spine. I get my best enjoyment out of dungeon crawling.
Until mod 5 that dungeon crawling was a great challenge with one or two people along with me. Kinda adventurous and heroic.
But mod 5 and mod 6 kinda take away the small group ability to have fun adventuring and quite frankly those dungeons are too hard for very small groups.

And both these mod's dungeons were specifically built to get you to the raid.

Each raid is cool to do once, new content and all, but I never really liked the gameplay behind the raids. Take 'the Reaver', for me I just don't get it and do not find it adventurous. But that is me, that is why my toons have little to none in the way of raid loot.

Mod 5 got a bit boring for me as people mostly did 'tap' runs and few did elite loot runs on the quests (indeed two of them were such a pain and not a pleasure to do on elite, few people did them - with exception of certain ways that some did them that made it easy)

Mod 6 had a wonderful outdoor area and was fun for a few times. It added a dungeon that had the 'kill too many and it is over' which I just do not like at all.
It added the 'colostomy chamber' an endless never ending run in circles, up an down, with lag making it take forever. I only did this one to get flagged on a toon and never went back. Ever. Not a good sign of a dungeon for me.
The dark one was cool the first few times, but after everyone turned up the gain on the brightness it was not as neat. I would have loved to see what it looked like fully lit.
The cool dungeon was the gnoll one. That was the one dungeon that was fun to do.
Oh, and the gold coin dungeon of monsters that have such spell resistance and saves on elite, my specced DC and spell pen mage would waste whole mana bars on a few of them.

For me, personally, the raids are just not fun. This last one is just not fun at all. Since mod6 is almost completely about the raid, it made it get boring for me very fast. Mod 5 raid I only went in once and found that it was neat looking but just as incredulous as a dungeon or a fantasy adventure.

When I return for mod 6 I am hoping for all sorts of dungeons. Playable dungeons of varying lengths like the way gianthold was. Dungeons that have nothing to do with the raid and are playable by less than a full group for adventures and loot's sake.

I hope the raid is like tempest spine finally, like a dungeon, and not like the others.
I hope they add 4 raids like tempest spine....along with about 12 dungeons. THat would be cool. Lots of content.
Lots of raids that a bunch of friends, regardless of character class, can all get together and just have fun time...not take forever doing something boring (like swinging at portals).

My toons, in my personal opinion, crave adventure in the way of dungeons and heroic deeds, not long drawn out single fights or really odd battles like the reaver. Raids that are a long dungeon where the end boss is not some insanely devised weird fight.

I do not want to think a lot, just want to play.

But, since all the raids so far have been the way they are, I imagine we will get another group of 4 to 6 dungeons that are incredible long and tough, near impossible to complete with a small group, and some kinda of long odd raid...and like the last two, require a full group to complete with no way of starting without eveyone being there. Just not lookig forward to that kind of adventure.

I would rather they built another gianhold, add a tempest spine raid, and leave it at that...

in my opinion

[Jefro]

But either way, you must realize that the other 11 players have their own way to play, and in a raid its more about an effective party then idividual whims.

Get yourself a range weapon like a good thrower, sometimes a fighter may have to sit out due to how comfortable a cleric can heal the group, instead of mass healing they sometimes do one cleric to a tank due to some meleers having low hitpoints, not many clerics or due to lag in part 4 and 5. If you get the short straw and are on the bench, then find ways to be productive. Certian clickies are always useful, ray of enfeeblement, lesser restore, solid fog and even neutralize should be sought out if can find the room in your inventory since they can help the whole party or get some stuff for range combat or asked to be swaped in.
Playing with guildies is usually more fun then joining a pug after the raid been out for some time, since they find a way to make you usable or swap you in.


You also underestimate part 2 of the shroud :p

[Milolyen]

First there is raid loot ... that IS the "crafting". You have been gone awhile so I will assume you missed all the people crying because they have ran a raid 40, 60, and 80 + times and STILL have not gotten the raid item they where looking for. People have also been crying for crafting. So guess they figured they would give us a bit of a preview for crafting and quiet down the poeple crying about not getting the item they really wanted from a raid by introducing craft your own RAID loot. People just see the word crafting and forget about it the rest of it. Have a static guild group you run with all 12 people should have enough ingredients for a complete teir 3 item (may have to do some swaping and about 20 runs should get you a duel shard teir 3 item) and the items you can create are not lame by far.

As far as the raid itself goes you came back a bit late and almost everyone has it down and knows all the secrets. When it first came out it was a real blast because everyone was in the mix and trying to figure out how to get it done. Also may I ask which class you play because there is ALWAYS something you could be doing instead of just standing around as opposed to the other raids. Titan - 3 people pretty much do all the work, 1 pillar killer/positioner, 1 crystal runner(can even be done with only 2 but faster if you have a runner), and 1 to fire the laser. SR had been soloed before mod 5 came out and still gets soloed. I have 2 manned DQ and know there have been a lot that go in with less than 6. Dragon useing the hero method can be done with less than 6. Also I can solo the abbot down to the point where he would have ported me to puzzles on my ranger. So a good group of 6 that can complete the puzzles would be able to beat the abbot as well. So if you go in any of those raids with 12 people then several people can just sit back and do nothing as well.

Milolyen

[Aesop]

Just a note... His name is Harry... he is a Pit Fiend... which is a Devil not a Demon

If worse comes to worse pick up a holy returning weapon and throw it at him... should work a little at least

Aesop

[jaitee]

too many posts to reply to, so ill put it in one reply

im a long time player i have 10 or 11 lvl 14s before i left, raids are fun, im not the type of person who "just stands around", i dont just watch either

i was on my bard, 15/1 bard/barb, of course i sang a song, but i also melee some, at the portals anyways

the sad part was, when they were assigning people to heal, i wasnt even mentioned, and when i was actually trying to solve my own puzzle, someone runs over and is like step on this and that, and when i didnt, he got a arcane to knock the door, and did it himself

i dont like crafting in DDO anyways, crafting is suppose to be something you do on your spare time, here you cant craft, you have to run a raid to craft, and from what i understand, its a preview of it?

i wont say exactly say what this groups intent was to beat it...

this raid is also nothing like TSE, i cant even see how its comparable

@fluffy, i never said how a raid was suppose to be, reread my post

[ArkoHighStar]

too many posts to reply to, so ill put it in one reply

im a long time player i have 10 or 11 lvl 14s before i left, raids are fun, im not the type of person who "just stands around", i dont just watch either

i was on my bard, 15/1 bard/barb, of course i sang a song, but i also melee some, at the portals anyways

the sad part was, when they were assigning people to heal, i wasnt even mentioned, and when i was actually trying to solve my own puzzle, someone runs over and is like step on this and that, and when i didnt, he got a arcane to knock the door, and did it himself

i dont like crafting in DDO anyways, crafting is suppose to be something you do on your spare time, here you cant craft, you have to run a raid to craft, and from what i understand, its a preview of it?

i wont say exactly say what this groups intent was to beat it...

this raid is also nothing like TSE, i cant even see how its comparable

@fluffy, i never said how a raid was suppose to be, reread my post


This was only a preview of some of the mechanisms, the standard crafting machines are in public areas so you will not need to in a quest to craft. It does look however that you will need collectibles to perform the crafting act.

[Mindspat]

but it was just a poor crafting system implemented into the game in my opinion

the whole list of friends i had, never even logs on anymore, at any given time, even on the weekends, the LFG panel looks dead

ill be here for another month atleast... to be a forum troll, im not going anywhere anytime soon



I agree on the "crafting" opinion, it isn't great. I see it more as a collectible puzzle game.

Oh, and you called my Sorcerer a Tank - Thank you very much!! You don't need to be a tank to kick the Pit Fiend's behind. Who ever convinced you of that should be flamed till eternity.

Actually, mod 6 was the BEST module in my opinion. The Vale is an absolute work of art. To say otherwise would mean ignorance or idiotic.

LFG is dead and no one on your friends list? Dude, or Chick, you deffintely do NOT play on Ghallanda!

in closing, you're not going to be here as long as you think if you're announcing your troll status...

[Mindspat]

Just a note... His name is Harry... he is a Pit Fiend... which is a Devil not a Demon

If worse comes to worse pick up a holy returning weapon and throw it at him... should work a little at least

Aesop

A returner with either Strength Sapping, Shattermantle, Destruction, or one of the appropriate Banes would be nice too. ;)

[Twerpp]

Um...this doesn't seem anything like TS, sorry they haven't delivered on that request.

It works for me.

[Milolyen]

too many posts to reply to, so ill put it in one reply

im a long time player i have 10 or 11 lvl 14s before i left, raids are fun, im not the type of person who "just stands around", i dont just watch either

i was on my bard, 15/1 bard/barb, of course i sang a song, but i also melee some, at the portals anyways

the sad part was, when they were assigning people to heal, i wasnt even mentioned, and when i was actually trying to solve my own puzzle, someone runs over and is like step on this and that, and when i didnt, he got a arcane to knock the door, and did it himself

i dont like crafting in DDO anyways, crafting is suppose to be something you do on your spare time, here you cant craft, you have to run a raid to craft, and from what i understand, its a preview of it?

i wont say exactly say what this groups intent was to beat it...

this raid is also nothing like TSE, i cant even see how its comparable

@fluffy, i never said how a raid was suppose to be, reread my post

The person should not have done that with your puzzle and I hate when people try and take over. With that said most of the people I run with ask if you want help as they go around ... if you do you say yes and they help or come in and do it ... if you say no then they move on. Sucks you ran with such an impatient group.

ONCE AGAIN ... this is NOT crafting. Crafting IS something you do on your own time and does not require being in a quest. THIS is design your own RAID LOOT(since so many confuse "craft" your own raid loot with crafting). A large group of the player base went in and figured out nearly all if not all of the possible combinations so now you are able to make exactly what you want for your raid loot(out of those combinations) instead of hopeing and praying the raid loot you want drops for you or you win the roll on said raid loot if someone else gets it and does not want. Also instead of being limited on what slot gets what stats all of the items can have any combination of the abilities from the item list and any of the weapons can have any of the abilities from the weapon list.

Think about all the raids you have done and seen raid loot go to vendors because no one wanted it or gave people duplicates for just in case type things. A buddy of mine has 3 + pairs of madstone boots but after 25 runs on my fighter he has yet to get them(not that I play him much). Wont happen in the shroud ... I run it 25 times and I could easily have 1 tier 3 double shard item and atleast one other teir 2 item or 2 teir 3 items. And those 2 items are exactly what I want out of the raid loot right down to what attributes it has from the choices to which slot/weapon it is from the choices. Personally I like it.

Milolyen

[ArkoHighStar]

It works for me.

Major differences


timer
can't backtrack, you must move forward through stages
party wipe means failure unlike tempest where you can get back in
Tempest is a quest for 12 people the shroud is 5 mini raid stages
pre requisites required
grind created by crafting items
no stupid puzzles, the floor puzzle at the end of tempest is easy and does not require people to have programs to make it faster


Don't get me wrong the shroud is a different breed than most other raids and is a good raid, but as many have pointed out most raids have degenerated into 2 or 3 man strategies where everyone stands around. The shroud is not here yet, but in some parts you could easily stand around and do nothing and the party woudl not care.

At least in tempest you feel like you are in a dungeon crawl moving through the corridors taking on mobs, the challenges require teamwork and generally everyone can do something to help. You can also do the last 2 mini bosses in any order, there are traps etc. there is even o whole outdoor area which nobody explores but is quite large

[jaitee]

I agree on the "crafting" opinion, it isn't great. I see it more as a collectible puzzle game.

Oh, and you called my Sorcerer a Tank - Thank you very much!! You don't need to be a tank to kick the Pit Fiend's behind. Who ever convinced you of that should be flamed till eternity.

Actually, mod 6 was the BEST module in my opinion. The Vale is an absolute work of art. To say otherwise would mean ignorance or idiotic.

LFG is dead and no one on your friends list? Dude, or Chick, you deffintely do NOT play on Ghallanda!

in closing, you're not going to be here as long as you think if you're announcing your troll status...

lol noob dutch!!!

i mean if you knew who i was... on these forums eh

everyone here is a forum troll, hard to believe it or not...

im sure you know my sorc, Foulplay... you know my sorc can do anything... its not that, i cant kill this thing? its that it completely bores me, that most of the time i spend doing is standing around

i do play on ghallanda, before that fernia, and man i know what lonely is trust me, Saltys...that was lonely

its either me, cause i log in during the day, and at night, its pretty empty

[Twerpp]

Major differences

timer
can't backtrack, you must move forward through stages
party wipe means failure unlike tempest where you can get back in
Tempest is a quest for 12 people the shroud is 5 mini raid stages
pre requisites required
grind created by crafting items
no stupid puzzles, the floor puzzle at the end of tempest is easy and does not require people to have programs to make it faster
Don't get me wrong the shroud is a different breed than most other raids and is a good raid, but as many have pointed out most raids have degenerated into 2 or 3 man strategies where everyone stands around. The shroud is not here yet, but in some parts you could easily stand around and do nothing and the party woudl not care.

At least in tempest you feel like you are in a dungeon crawl moving through the corridors taking on mobs, the challenges require teamwork and generally everyone can do something to help. You can also do the last 2 mini bosses in any order, there are traps etc. there is even o whole outdoor area which nobody explores but is quite large

HA! You could if you were a total gimp and dont expect another invite. You're right if you can't find anything to throw/cast/swing/buff/pull/solve/heal/umd or shoot at, the party probably wouldnt care....to group with you ever again.

Oh yeah and the 2-3 man strategies you talk about are only needed in one raid and only temporarily, Titan unless you enjoy watching him stomp people while his shields are up.

[Twerpp]

lol noob dutch!!!

i mean if you knew who i was... on these forums eh

everyone here is a forum troll, hard to believe it or not...

im sure you know my sorc, Foulplay... you know my sorc can do anything... its not that, i cant kill this thing? its that it completely bores me, that most of the time i spend doing is standing around

i do play on ghallanda, before that fernia, and man i know what lonely is trust me, Saltys...that was lonely

its either me, cause i log in during the day, and at night, its pretty empty

I hear you man, I'm in Hawaii and on late and it doesnt seem like Ghallanda has much of a Pacific Time Zone or hardcore late nighters contingent...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It works for me.

How is this anything like TS?

TS has no timer...this one has a timer

TS you spend most of the time running through a fairly involved map, Shroud takes place in 5 little rooms.

TS has no named or special items to grind for really, just a big quest for a big group...Shroud is all about grind

TS has a named at the end who is similar in difficulty to the quest itself and who's difficulty can be adjusted based on good strategy. Shroud is a "autoattack for 10 min" quest.

TS allows late joiners and reentry. Not shroud.

TS has optionals, not shroud.

What do they have in common?

[Azoralq]

Um let me make this as simple as possible for you.
No matter what you may think a raid should be a raid is a quest or quest chain that you can take in more than 6 people. Nothing more and nothing less.

Factually yes...but this definately does not feel like a raid. It's just another Tempest Spine run, in my eyes. The fact that there is no raid loot doesn't bother me, really...the pit fiend is kinda lame in part 4, and part 5 would be a lot cooler if the demon was attacking while the other four were as well. That, and the aspect of holding off on killing the fourth for around a half hour before fighting the pit fiend is cheesy. Don't get me wrong..it's a clever and inovative way to do it..and I could see it happening in PnP if this were such...I just don't much like the tactic. I personally think that the longer it takes to kill the four lieutenants..the stronger the pit fiend is to kill. All his stats go up by one point per 2 minutes until all four are dead, or something.

Back the the point..it doesn't feel like a raid at all..just something you get a bunch of people together to run over and over again for loot/ingredients..much like when Tempest Spine was all the rage. I don't craft..but Turbine did make a great move on adding crafting...but they should have made a better raid. Here's hoping for Mod 7

[Beherit_Baphomar]

but, its sad you know, that i log on, the whole list of friends i had, never even logs on anymore, at any given time, even on the weekends, the LFG panel looks dead

Just wait for AoC to hit the shelves...they'll come back in droves...no, no wait. Got that wrong...sorry, other way around...

As for crafting, go craft a greensteel greataxe...n-oooo, wait, cant do that...

Sorry yer time back hasnt been all you expected, but to be fair to Turbine, they are trying hard to give us everything we've been asking for. Give them time to fix a few things, iron out a few bumps, add more...let them refine crafting a little and remember this raid is the first raid they've had to tie it in with crafting. They will now have a better idea of what works and what doesn't.

[suitepotato]

Yup, we have a lot of monsters that are pale imitations of what they should be

The same could be said of our lives. As Avery Brooks asked, "where are the flying cars?!"

That being said, it can now be said again for the billion time, we need more Tempest Spine no-pre-req no-timer no-required-inanity quests. Fight past lots of minions, take over key places, fight to the boss and kick his butt.

Why can't we just have simple no-questions fights like that? Burning Heights is BEGGING to be the outside area of a major TS style raid.

[Angelus_dead]

That being said, it can now be said again for the billion time, we need more Tempest Spine no-pre-req no-timer no-required-inanity quests. Fight past lots of minions, take over key places, fight to the boss and kick his butt.

Why can't we just have simple no-questions fights like that?
You can, and you DO. Those quests don't happen to allow 12 players at once, because 12 players doesn't make them any more fun. But if you look for those missions, you'll find them.

[Twerpp]

First of all I never said it was EXACTLY like TS. I said this raid is a lot of EXACTLY what a lot of us asked for. Not to mention delivering the beginning of the crafting system we begged for.

There is a timer and pre-reqs because they dont hand out lightning bolt swords, +2 and +3 tomes, and 400 SP items like candy, yet (but the way we're going lol...). Which is probably also why there is no re-rentry for unlimited mana.

I wouldnt exactly call it "five little rooms". Its not exactly "an orc guards a chest in a 10x10 room".

If your entire party auto-attacked for 10 mins you would all be dead...

I called it a big nasty beatdown fest like TS, its also very fast paced action with hard hitting enemies and requires great teamwork. Please show me where I said its exactly like TS down to the reset timers and dimensions of the freaking rooms.

[Twerpp]

How is this anything like TS?

TS has no timer...this one has a timer

TS you spend most of the time running through a fairly involved map, Shroud takes place in 5 little rooms.

TS has no named or special items to grind for really, just a big quest for a big group...Shroud is all about grind

TS has a named at the end who is similar in difficulty to the quest itself and who's difficulty can be adjusted based on good strategy. Shroud is a "autoattack for 10 min" quest.

TS allows late joiners and reentry. Not shroud.

TS has optionals, not shroud.

What do they have in common?

Oh yeah that was for Lorien

[Frodo_Lives]

I'm not a big fan of the raid itself, but it's not bad. It is just not my taste and I can live with that without any real complaints. The thing I don't like is not even the crafting and how it's done, although IMO it's far too much of a grind, but the items themselves.

I mean the teir 3 items make everything else in the game look like a joke. It bothers me (as another poster has already said) to think how the game will be balanced for those with these items and those that do not have them. I personally do not want to grind the raid until my eyes bleed to get enough to make a top end item.

This in itself would not bother me a bit, I do not generally get sucked into the "keeping up with the Jones" mentality. You have it, I don't, not a big deal. But the power jump is simply mind blowing and staggering. If they made the items less powerful, but the grind a little less to get them it would have been much much better, but it's a little late for that.

To much of a grind and too big a power boost. IMO.

[captain1z]

lol noob dutch!!!

i mean if you knew who i was... on these forums eh

everyone here is a forum troll, hard to believe it or not...

im sure you know my sorc, Foulplay... you know my sorc can do anything... its not that, i cant kill this thing? its that it completely bores me, that most of the time i spend doing is standing around

i do play on ghallanda, before that fernia, and man i know what lonely is trust me, Saltys...that was lonely

its either me, cause i log in during the day, and at night, its pretty empty


AAhhh yes. The return of jaitee. It didnt even dawn on me when I saw you running around this weekend. In truth I didnt know Foulplay was yours....... but then I do remeber someone saying it was your 1st character that wasnt a warforged. the vast majority of your guild doesnt play any longer.......... thats very true. and most of your previous guilds no longer exist ......... save 1 whos members are slowly dwindling also. I can see how you would find the world looking very empty.


I will agree that the pre-raid quests are better than the raid itself. I do the raid for high level items mostly....... but the pre-raids are well themed, imaginative, nice art design and some are very large areas (ritual sac,Coal chamber, dust and running are all pretty large)

Welcome back.... stick around and check out monks if you like.............. and try and stay out of trouble............but somehow you seem to have a way of finding it ;)

[captain1z]

Also ................


TS is an awesome adventure zone. Some like to just run it as a quest..... but outside the mountain there are optional "mini-boss" encounters. They are not really named but they are sorta like mini bosses. I like to walk around outside after everyone has left or just go in alone.

I was soloing most of TS for a while...... just for fun really.

[Gratch]

im sure you know my sorc, Foulplay... you know my sorc can do anything... its not that, i cant kill this thing? its that it completely bores me, that most of the time i spend doing is standing around

i do play on ghallanda, before that fernia, and man i know what lonely is trust me, Saltys...that was lonely

its either me, cause i log in during the day, and at night, its pretty empty

Yeah... Ghallanda is only primed with LFM's at EST evenings and on weekends. Though playing at other times you *can* find good DDO Korea, daytime, or Aussie groups running... just not a whole lot of groups total running outside of EST.

I think the long time dps requirement of the shroud was sort of a reaction to all the "sorcs can solo all of the necropolis", "why take anything but arcanes into necroville", "non spell casters are gimp" that arose after Mod 5. It's not to say arcanes aren't useful in the shroud... they can definitely make a huge difference... as can a bard... but not as much on the nuker side. A good set of support buffing, debuffing, healing, repairing characters make the raid completable... but the core of lowering the pit fiend's and the portal's HP have to be sustainable dps... or an unending supply of mana pots.

I actually like the construction of the shroud raid except I would prefer the part 5 pit fiend having half his hp since it really just turns into a strain on healing (or wfg'ed repairing) resources. I'd also replace part 1 entirely... a storm the pit fiend's outer castle with a much larger outdoor space, more variety of planar mobs and waves to defeat would have been more to my liking. And trebuchets...

My suggestion would be to try your classes other than arcane... or maybe ask some current arcanes what they do to stave off boredom in parts 1, 4 and 5. Also try running it with less commanding groups. I've found guild runs or PUG's with mostly one guild to go the smoothest and spend the least time on minutiae. I could see someone running your puzzle if it's near DEATH WALL time... but you should have 4 minutes before someone takes over.

Ed: Devs have noted Mod 7's raid (raids? - there was mention of 2) will return to named loot.

[JFeenstra]

In part 4 when he starts flying, his hp goes to full and he just flies in a straight line and shoots in a straight line. It's pretty lame. I would have much preferred (and would have been more entertained/excited) if he flew around with a little more enthusiasm (i.e. not in a straight line) and actually aimed the fireballs at the players (i.e. not throwing fireballs in a straight line where NO ONE is standing), and if his hp did not zap to full while he was flying (making attacks during that time entirely pointless) and then zap back to where his hp were before he poofed (sillyness). He doesnt do anything interesting in part 5 either. He just stands around, paces in the middle, throws fireballs, and sometimes warps people to him. The fact that he has so much hp and that there is nothing else going on makes the fight seem boring. that's a graphical bug...i've shot him down not once, but twice with my ranger

the shroud is the first actual raid where every member of the party has a job that needs to be done....i seriously doubt anyone could do it short more than 1 or 2 people (on normal), which in comparison to the other raids, is excellent

dq: soloable (any evasion character, most casters can as well if they have umd, clerics can easy enough too)
reaver: soloable (even post safe spot fix)
titan: 3 manable (gun/crystal runner, bottom pillars, agro holder...pre raid: two go green, one goes purple, green split blue/yellow, rez run yellow through blue, purple goes blue, kill golems, go through blue to purple side, one grab red, rez run red through blue, open multicolored hallway kill flayer, done)
dragon: 5 manable (used to be 2 manable pre ladder fix)
abbot: 6 manable (used to be soloable pre fix)

shroud requires at least 10 people, making it the best group-based raid to date, hands down

[Angelus_dead]

shroud requires at least 10 people, making it the best group-based raid to date, hands down
Yes, it truly is the best at being a 12-man raid.

Whether or not it was a good idea to work on adding genuine 12-man raids to DDO is a separate question, and it can easily be argued to have been a mistake.