Kill Count Question

[frugal_gourmet]

Kinda new to DDO (few weeks). But, I have a question about kill count.

I assume this is mainly a measure of which player dealt the last blow and not who dealt the most damage to that monster, right? Or am I off? Does it means something else? It always seems to me that my blaster gets about 5 monsters down to 1/4 hit points in one blast or two and gets absolutely zero kills while the fighters (hasted by me) finish them all off.

I know it's a stupid thing to care about, but I was just curious.

[ArkoHighStar]

it is killing blow

edit: wantto reverse that let the fighter knock them down a quarter and then you finish them off;)

[frugal_gourmet]

edit: wantto reverse that let the fighter knock them down a quarter and then you finish them off;)

Oh, I'm sure that happens too. :)

[Gratch]

As the squishy arcane, you should let the fighters establish aggro and use your power "for good" to finish off all the mobs and then tell the fighters how they suck and how you are "THE DEATH BLOW". Then you should see your name with the highest kill count.

But yeah... you only get a +kill count when your combat log says: You killed smelly kobold.

[Rav'n]

Sooooo.... If I landed the killing blow on Velah.... and my Combat doesn't read "You killed Smelly Kobold" ...I don't get credit for killing Velah?

WHAT A RIP!!!

[unionyes]

Kill counts are overrated.

When you aren't capped, the only number that really means anything is the total xp number after bonuses.

Besides, to my knowledge the kill count doesn't affect chest or end reward distribution of loot.

The only time I actually care about what the kill count is is when there is a super uber gamer in a PUG who is always going on and on about how he is such a death machine. Then I manipulate the kill count (wait until mobs are beaten down to about half then fireballing them, hanging back with my rogue and then blasting in and dealing the death blow, putting the buffs away and saving manna for pk's and fod, putting the paralyzer away and switching to my high dps weapon, that kind of thing. Then I talk about how mediocre I am, ask the uber gamer for advice on builds, weapons, tactics.....then near the end of the adventure say 'Wow, look at the kill count.......'

[Kalari]

Those who have time to count kills arent killing fast enough, More kills less counting I say..ANNIHILATION!

Sorry had to get out the doze of psycho killer out of my system and this thread provided the source much thanks :)

[Oxvon]

It is based on who dealt the killing blow, and most of the time it doesn't really matter but sometimes it can be a true measurement of skill, because if there is a group with two fighters and the one has most of the kills and the other one only has a couple, I would question the others skill/gear.

Or if those two fighters both have vorpals, you could find out who rolls the most nat 20's!

[DeadlyGazebo]

Kinda new to DDO (few weeks). But, I have a question about kill count.

I assume this is mainly a measure of which player dealt the last blow and not who dealt the most damage to that monster, right? Or am I off? Does it means something else? It always seems to me that my blaster gets about 5 monsters down to 1/4 hit points in one blast or two and gets absolutely zero kills while the fighters (hasted by me) finish them all off.

I know it's a stupid thing to care about, but I was just curious.

Kill counts are solely who struck the final hit. They have no impact on XP, item rewards, or anything else, they're solely present for people who want to compare who killed the most.

[Rav'n]

quote
Or if those two fighters both have vorpals, you could find out who rolls the most nat 20's!


That would be...ME!! *grin*

[Gratch]

Kill counts are solely who struck the final hit. They have no impact on XP, item rewards, or anything else, unless the final hit is used in combination with diplomacy on raid bosses while circling the monster's corpse counterclockwise 19 times in which case tomes are fully guaranteed in the end chest.

Fixed for you. Only us founders know this tidbit...

Oh wait... noone else read this.

[herzkos]

I think the kill count is utterly worthless. No, not just because I play gimped fighters
and healbot clerics. The only thing it does is fuel the ego of some players who think
it matters which character actually killed a mob.
Maybe it's just me, but, watching the party on my cleric(s) I can usually tell who is doing
the most damage as well as who's using paras, cursespewers, etc.
The important part (to me anyway) is how "easily" the party gets through the mobs.
I really don't care if the wizard nuke's a mob or makes it dance. As long as the mob goes
down and none of my party members do I'm happy.

The kill count is an individual "accomplishment" in a team game. bahhh

[bobbryan2]

I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well.

If you have ways of tracking those numbers.

[frugal_gourmet]

I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well.

If you have ways of tracking those numbers.


Also, damage done as a result of my buffs and heals.

(ok, not really)

:)

[totmacher]

what's wrong with a little competition? :)

[Ozoro]

what's wrong with a little competition? :)

the fact that you lose every time?

[HumanJHawkins]

it doesn't really matter but sometimes it can be a true measurement of skill, because if there is a group with two fighters and the one has most of the kills and the other one only has a couple, I would question the others skill/gear.

Nah... It doesn't even matter then... Often a fighter can contribute more by cursing, paralyzing, etc. And even if you have two players who are both trying to kill with pure DPS, one of them might be killing 3 kobolds while the other goes after an ogre that is worth 5 of them.

For a kill count type stat to really mean anything, it would have to be switched to a formula like:
Score = # of HP damage done * CR of the Creature / Your level

Kill count is one of many statistics that must be looked at as a set to determine skill... Unfortunately, it is the only stat exposed, so people focus a bit too much on it. In basketball you have points, rebounds, and assists. And the true uber players can get a triple-double once in a while. Too bad DDO doesn't report at that level. Paralyzing or making a mob dance would be an assist for example. Pulling certain switches, such as the high up switches in "The Pit", or disabling a trap, might be a rebound.

[totmacher]

the fact that you lose every time?

keep talking like that and I'll take away your boiled meat AND YOU WILL LIKE IT

[query]

WHO CARES?

A high kill count but a failed mission means a failed mission. a low or zero kill count, but that FtS spell went off on the minions while they kill the boss and baddies and we COMPLETE the adventure with chests galore is MY example of a successful run. Or should we deny buffs until the low killers catch up? That's even stupider.


So enjoy it if you like, but don't shove it in my face either since I'm not the one the broken charmed pets are attacking mr UBER intimitank ;)


(No not seriously, but hmmm, mass charm, going invis and waiting for all of them to break.....if only we could play evil...)

[Kalanth]

Kill counts, and breakable counts, are very usefull in a creative way.

The 2nd quest for Baudry where you are breaking all the boxes in Hazadill's wearhouse, that is a great example. Three go in, and one acts as the score keeper the other two are the contestents. Then set the wager and award the person who broke the most the prize. I like to put down a bet of 1000pp that I will have the most broken boxes, and I have one 2 out of 2 times.

Do that same kind of thing with kills. Bunch of caps go in, only a few of them actually fight, and one sits back and watches the counter awarding the prize to the winner. Makes kill count fun again. :)

[Missing_Minds]

Kill counts are solely who struck the final hit. They have no impact on XP, item rewards, or anything else, they're solely present for people who want to compare who got the last hit in.

Fixed it for you.

[Frodo_Lives]

Some people like looking at kill counts, and think that kills = contributions. To most good players that is completely untrue. Any party member can contribute in so many more ways than just kills.

A fighter who curses, stat damages, intimidates then shield blocks, paralyzes, and on and on and on. This fighter can make a tough run easy as pie (I like pie).

A Crowd Control mage, a buffing bard, a healing cleric, are all examples of a character who does a lot for a party but does not contribute that much to the kill count. Although all three examples can greatly enhance the groups DPS through their own direct combat contributions as well.

Kill counts are far from meaningless, but you have to compare apples to apples. You also have to take a ton of other factors into account as well. If one character has half the kills then you would naturally think that they are doing a really good job. This may be true but if they are the only pure melee or a melee that is much higher level then the others then that is a factor. If they have twice the kills as the next guy but takes up 5X the resources of the cleric then that comes into account too.

Basically there are too many factors that come into play to truly make the kill counts an effective measuring tool for anything.






Except maybe E peen. ;)

[Mindspat]

I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well.

If you have ways of tracking those numbers.

And hitpoints Healed!

I would also like to see something relevant to debuffing and crowd control. Maybe not a 1:1 type of counter like Kill Counts but more along the lines of an % Effecientcy type of counter/meter.

What about most dmg mitigated, the character who intimidates, uses diplomacy, is missed, or misses the most in combat?

It would be a lot of fun to track other statistics rather then just Kills. Personaly, I think kill counts are lame as they currently are and as players in DDO, which has an amazing combat system, we need something more cerebral to coincincide with the excellant directed experiance of running quests.

[suitepotato]

I want some other stats added if we're going to have something as meaningless as Kill Count.

# of Times Causing Distraction by Robe Falling Open
Come on, you know some of those minos are just pausing because the female elf sorc's belt won't stay on tight.

Esteem Kill Count
Intimidation should come with the ability to demotivate and crush souls. We might have to wait for the Assistant Manager class to be added, but it would be so cool and familiar.

Sucker for Punishment
Amount of damage done to players using a Vicious weapon versus amount of damage they dished out using it.

Things other than kill count are important. So says the stat/defense harassment halfling.

[Oxvon]

I say who cares about per quest stats, we should get carrer stats, total damage output, number of times using X spell, or X Feat, max crit, most damage delt in one quest, so one, and so on. that would be amazazing!

[ahpook]

I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well.
And Hit Points Healed
And Damage from Buffs

All these stats are in the end meaningless or misleading. Often what is more important is not what happened but what would have happened if things were done differently. And that can never be captured.

For example: I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well. What does it mean when one fighter dishes out 70% of the damage and the other takes 70% of the damage? It means the first fighter got in more hits because he was flanking while the second was shield blocking a lot after his intimidates. The important stat is if that without doing that they would both have been dead.

As always, the stats are meaningless without context. They will just be another piece of flotsam in the wake of an epeen parade.

[Wizzly_Bear]

I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well.
And Hit Points Healed
And Damage from Buffs

All these stats are in the end meaningless or misleading. Often what is more important is not what happened but what would have happened if things were done differently. And that can never be captured.

For example: I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well. What does it mean when one fighter dishes out 70% of the damage and the other takes 70% of the damage? It means the first fighter got in more hits because he was flanking while the second was shield blocking a lot after his intimidates. The important stat is if that without doing that they would both have been dead.

As always, the stats are meaningless without context. They will just be another piece of flotsam in the wake of an epeen parade.
or the first fighter was skilled and well equipped while the second was gimped. problem with statistics like this is you need such a vast amount to really tell you anything other than ego boosts.

[bobbryan2]

Nah... It doesn't even matter then... Often a fighter can contribute more by cursing, paralyzing, etc.

Often?

That's a poor choice of words. I would think that it's very rare that a fighter is contributing more by cursing or paralyzing. I think that's the myth made up by those that like to justify being unable to be able to sustain DPS for any length of time.

If you want to be a weapon effect hitter, there are classes better suited than Fighters with strength enhancements.

[bobbryan2]

I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well.
And Hit Points Healed
And Damage from Buffs

All these stats are in the end meaningless or misleading. Often what is more important is not what happened but what would have happened if things were done differently. And that can never be captured.

For example: I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well. What does it mean when one fighter dishes out 70% of the damage and the other takes 70% of the damage? It means the first fighter got in more hits because he was flanking while the second was shield blocking a lot after his intimidates. The important stat is if that without doing that they would both have been dead.

As always, the stats are meaningless without context. They will just be another piece of flotsam in the wake of an epeen parade.

Yeah... it could be. And if a Volcano goes off 100 miles away, the increase in temperature might be global warming.

But it IS a useful stat if you look at it in context of what actually happened. These stats aren't meant to be viewed in a vaccuum, they're meant to be viewed in context of how the fight went and how the fighting occured.

Anyone arguing differently is refusing to believe that a kill counter is useful only on the principle of the matter, instead of actually trying to determine what it could be used to calculate.

[sirgog]

I'd love to see a # of deaths count.

Both on a per-quest basis, and on a career basis.


The only thing I use the official kill count for is when I want to try to get Misadventure to win a kill contest - that's always good for a laugh.

[Proserpine]

WHO CARES?

A high kill count but a failed mission means a failed mission. a low or zero kill count, but that FtS spell went off on the minions while they kill the boss and baddies and we COMPLETE the adventure with chests galore is MY example of a successful run. Or should we deny buffs until the low killers catch up? That's even stupider.


So enjoy it if you like, but don't shove it in my face either since I'm not the one the broken charmed pets are attacking mr UBER intimitank ;)


(No not seriously, but hmmm, mass charm, going invis and waiting for all of them to break.....if only we could play evil...)

Wow, you need to get off the computer and stay away from it for awhile. The guy said hes new and is asking a question. A dev thought enough to help a new person out by answering and here YOU are going off the deep end about RAID BOSSES and other nonsense! Go away!
:mad:

[reefhut]

Kill counts are overrated.

When you aren't capped, the only number that really means anything is the total xp number after bonuses.

Besides, to my knowledge the kill count doesn't affect chest or end reward distribution of loot.

The only time I actually care about what the kill count is is when there is a super uber gamer in a PUG who is always going on and on about how he is such a death machine. Then I manipulate the kill count (wait until mobs are beaten down to about half then fireballing them, hanging back with my rogue and then blasting in and dealing the death blow, putting the buffs away and saving manna for pk's and fod, putting the paralyzer away and switching to my high dps weapon, that kind of thing. Then I talk about how mediocre I am, ask the uber gamer for advice on builds, weapons, tactics.....then near the end of the adventure say 'Wow, look at the kill count.......'

QFT

lmao.. good times;)

[Kreaper]

...they're solely present for people who want to compare who killed the most.


Really? I thought the kill counter was there so we would know when we got conquest! :D

[Talon_Moonshadow]

what's wrong with a little competition? :)

It depends on who you are competing against.

Clerics?
Bard?
Rogue who waits for you to get agro first?

or even the fighter who blocked the door......

many things can affect it.

Now....in an all out zerg fest where everyone is zerging and killing.......its all good. :)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Some people like looking at kill counts, and think that kills = contributions. To most good players that is completely untrue. Any party member can contribute in so many more ways than just kills.

A fighter who curses, stat damages, intimidates then shield blocks, paralyzes, and on and on and on. This fighter can make a tough run easy as pie (I like pie).

A Crowd Control mage, a buffing bard, a healing cleric, are all examples of a character who does a lot for a party but does not contribute that much to the kill count. Although all three examples can greatly enhance the groups DPS through their own direct combat contributions as well.

Kill counts are far from meaningless, but you have to compare apples to apples. You also have to take a ton of other factors into account as well. If one character has half the kills then you would naturally think that they are doing a really good job. This may be true but if they are the only pure melee or a melee that is much higher level then the others then that is a factor. If they have twice the kills as the next guy but takes up 5X the resources of the cleric then that comes into account too.

Basically there are too many factors that come into play to truly make the kill counts an effective measuring tool for anything.






Except maybe E peen. ;)

My CC Sor has in her bio: "That's not a kill count: it's the number of executions I gift wrapped for you!" :)

[CombatMedic]

The only thing it does is fuel the ego of some players who think
it matters which character actually killed a mob.

Agreed. I like the kill count for no other reason than getting the high score. It doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make my Barbarian the baddest dude in the game but it is fun to get the highest "Kill Count". Half of my kills might be "Last Blow" and not represent damage done, but once again, I get the high score. Who cares how I got there. It's like pinball or Defender. JN89

[ahpook]

Yeah... it could be. And if a Volcano goes off 100 miles away, the increase in temperature might be global warming.

But it IS a useful stat if you look at it in context of what actually happened. These stats aren't meant to be viewed in a vaccuum, they're meant to be viewed in context of how the fight went and how the fighting occured.

Anyone arguing differently is refusing to believe that a kill counter is useful only on the principle of the matter, instead of actually trying to determine what it could be used to calculate.

Stats are very useful if you understand the context in which they occurred. Outside of that understanding, they become propaganda in an epeen stroking competition.

I am not certain that it is worth the devs time to add more stats for that reason and for the reason that for every stat they put in people want to ask for 2 more to make sure their builds are being appreciated. Most people understand the conditional and generally meaningless aspect of kill counts. Lets not add more meaingless indicators and go through more retraining.

[Karranor]

Bah, kill counts and breakables, heck even secret doors and all that jazz is so old school. Let’s see some really important things in that XP window. Things like…


 Number of deaths from failing to equip bat.
 Total amount of party agro from zerging.
 Times screwed on chest loot.
 AFK Minutes
 Lost time waiting on lost party members.
 House P buff expense wasted.
 Mana wasted casting spells that never land.
 Mana wasted on players that already have buffs or gear.
 Traps intentionally set off to keep party on their toes.
 Ninja looted barrel loot.
 Time spent on floor in grease.

These are just a few of the very important things that need to be added to the XP window. Get busy devs!

[Borrigain]

Kill counts only mean anything to those who have never been shot at. (and the media, but that's another story :D)

....well, and maybe enlightened team players that understand there's more to a successful run than "how big my **** is".

Heck, in real life, if I drew fire from 3 bad guys and have my head down under cover, I WANT SPC Snowball bounding on my right flank to get the kills. The only thing that's important is everyone comes out alive.



hmmm.....that gets me thinking......

DEV'S TAKE NOTE: WHY DON'T WE HAVE A XP BONUS FOR NO DEATHS IN A MISSION?

That would be something to contribute to and encourage "team" play I think. :)

Borr.

[Pellegro]

I like kill counts. They don't mean anything but they're a source of fun as long as you don't get all goofy about them.

I've long been an advocate of more detailed post-quest results. I'd love to see a whole range on info on damage dished out, a calculated dps, damage taken, heals given out, spells cast that land or that don't, etc. The list is infinite of what *could* be in there. And given the nerd-factor at work in this game, I'm sure folks would love it. Can you imagine the build-testing that people would get into?

I also like the above suggestion for statistics that aren't limited to just that quest. See above list, and imagine if it were kept globally and universally. Man, that's an incentive to stay "on game" - don't want your precious DPS average to drop!!! Other games have kill/death ratios that are tracked by third parties (I'm thinking of a particular FPS at the moment) and while some people get silly about it, overall its a pretty cool feature (IMO).

To the OP: Ultimately, killcount is a very very imprecise and rough indicator of DPS. But so many factors can skew it (people trying to get 'last hit' in particular) in any particular quest that it is hard to rely on it.

[Pellegro]

DEV'S TAKE NOTE: WHY DON'T WE HAVE A XP BONUS FOR NO DEATHS IN A MISSION?

They gave us an inverse cash bonus instead. If you die it costs $$$ to repair ....

[HumanJHawkins]

Often?

That's a poor choice of words. I would think that it's very rare that a fighter is contributing more by cursing or paralyzing. I think that's the myth made up by those that like to justify being unable to be able to sustain DPS for any length of time.

If you want to be a weapon effect hitter, there are classes better suited than Fighters with strength enhancements.

No... I think "often" is the right word. It doesn't mean "most of the time", but indicates the number of times is not trivial. I think "often" is typically interpreted as somewhere between 20 and 40% of the time.

My fighter can DPS with the rest of them... Not as much as a Barb while fully raged of course, but pretty good. At level 12 in POP, I could run through DPSing and letting the Cleric keep me and everyone else healed. Or, I could completely shut down agro by paralyzing in the first couple of hits and letting the barbarian chop them down while I run to the next and paralyze him. Then the Cleric wouldn't have to shrine until right before the end battle, and we still get through it very quickly.

If we had a ranger with a paralyzing bow, or if the Sorc was using crowd control, or if I am running something like Shroud 1, I would certainly break out the appropriate set of dual DPS daxes. But I've found that a lot of clerics prefer that I help make their jobs obsolete. So I try to accommodate when I can, or when the party doesn't have other means.

[bobbryan2]

No... I think "often" is the right word. It doesn't mean "most of the time", but indicates the number of times is not trivial. I think "often" is typically interpreted as somewhere between 20 and 40% of the time.

My fighter can DPS with the rest of them... Not as much as a Barb while fully raged of course, but pretty good. At level 12 in POP, I could run through DPSing and letting the Cleric keep me and everyone else healed. Or, I could completely shut down agro by paralyzing in the first couple of hits and letting the barbarian chop them down while I run to the next and paralyze him. Then the Cleric wouldn't have to shrine until right before the end battle, and we still get through it very quickly.

If we had a ranger with a paralyzing bow, or if the Sorc was using crowd control, or if I am running something like Shroud 1, I would certainly break out the appropriate set of dual DPS daxes. But I've found that a lot of clerics prefer that I help make their jobs obsolete. So I try to accommodate when I can, or when the party doesn't have other means.

And like you said... there are half a dozen things that are more efficient there.

Including simply throwing the trip button while swinging away with the SoS and leveling everything in 3 swings and moving onto the next and hitting stunning blow.

[Merkinsal]

Kill count and dps both share the same flaw. They don't matter lol.

Even a high dps reading, if there was one, can be very misleading. Players build their characters for many purposes and dps in just one of many characteristics. You could look at a party make up and guess fairly accurately how they ranked in dps, the statistic is that simple. None of that really makes a difference because as had been said before, the success of the group is all that matters.

[Dexxaan]

I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well.

If you have ways of tracking those numbers.

Definitely would be nice.....I guess many "uberbarians " would be humbled when they compare Ratios and more so if you could (for kicks) put a Heal-o-Meter so Clerics can identify who the sponges are?

[Borrigain]

They gave us an inverse cash bonus instead. If you die it costs $$$ to repair ....

Nuthin' like negative reinforcement to motivate your Joe's right?........:D

Borr.

[borackus]

kill count ,kill count..who cares, this is a game of team work and there still isnt an i in team.. right???

[Gypsy_Mouse]

The only thing I use the official kill count for is when I want to try to get Misadventure to win a kill contest - that's always good for a laugh.


You know, I dunno who this Misadventure is, but I'm tired of them ghosting into the group and stealing my kills!
As a cleric, I feel it's my duty to steal at least one kill in the quest, but Misadventure seems to beat me to it most of the time. :mad:


Seriously though, kill count doesn't matter and is yet another thing for the idiots to use in the e-peen contest.


They need to add
"Death"
"Heals Needed"
counters.

Because it wouldn't surprise me if some who boast of their kill counts needed the most healing or raising. :rolleyes:

[Merkinsal]

Kill counts are overrated.

When you aren't capped, the only number that really means anything is the total xp number after bonuses.

Besides, to my knowledge the kill count doesn't affect chest or end reward distribution of loot.

The only time I actually care about what the kill count is is when there is a super uber gamer in a PUG who is always going on and on about how he is such a death machine. Then I manipulate the kill count (wait until mobs are beaten down to about half then fireballing them, hanging back with my rogue and then blasting in and dealing the death blow, putting the buffs away and saving manna for pk's and fod, putting the paralyzer away and switching to my high dps weapon, that kind of thing. Then I talk about how mediocre I am, ask the uber gamer for advice on builds, weapons, tactics.....then near the end of the adventure say 'Wow, look at the kill count.......'

lmao rofl Ya, Thats the way to pad the kill count. There are times on my sorc when I am letting the melee do their thing while I conserve sp and then for some reason, I have no idea why, they run into one that just will not go down. While I'm sitting there with my finger on a spell considering what to do, the cleric is spending sp on heals and that is not good. After one shoting the mob, I'm sure some are thinking I'm waiting till the end to pad the kill count. That happens with monsters that are very weak against one type of spell such as disintegrate for golems and big skeletons, scorching ray for ice types, dismissal, fod and pk for whoever. That kind of thing. Fact is, neither of us can survive without the other.

[Horrorscope]

I'd love to see damage done, and damage taken to be added as well.

If you have ways of tracking those numbers.

Me to, I'd love more stats. As mentioned heal points as well. It's all in good fun.

[Muppethero]

I dont think I have ever grouped with anyone who gave anything more then a sarcastic ha ha I got more kills then you with the kill count.

[The_Phenx]

Sometimes its fun.

If i get in group with another high dps tank...the competition to out-do eachother is amusing and competitive.

And yes it only records the last blow dealt. But when that bow was 187 hp its fairly accurate as to who killed the critter lol. And if you see one tank with 4 times as many deaths... its a good assumption that hes doing the most damage.

I do occasionally zerg to win in said friendly competitions but i've built my toon to handle it. He can self heal self buff has a moderately high ac and is extrememly survivable, and can solo most of the content.

That being said... I know when to wait for the group when not to aggro and how to play. After all it is a team game. Unlike some folks i've seen cause numerous party wipes because they will aggro a whole dungeon and tail it back to the party.

Id like to back the notion of damage dealt. It would help me fine tune my guy as opposed to just being a fun lil toy to poke at guildies.

And as a final note. Please dear god everyone stop making builds that rely solely on epic weapons. Vorpals, banishers, etc are not the end all be all of existance. It is normally much faster to dps a mob than pray for a 20.

[HumanJHawkins]

The only thing I use the official kill count for is when I want to try to get Misadventure to win a kill contest - that's always good for a laugh.

You know there's a guy on Sarlona who was smart and cool enough to name is toon "Misadventure". I ran with him once. It was a riot. I can't remember whether it was Misadventure, or Misadventure who got the most kills. But I think it was one or the other. :-)