selling accounts?

[newguy]

Is selling accounts allowed?

[Oreg]

It is against the user agreement you signed.

[Quanefel]

I think you know the answer to that since you did not use your game account to ask. You already have your answer.

[newguy]

oh yea...another reason I want to leave. So many people think they're some sort of DDO law enforcement.

[Oreg]

OK....It is not illegal and you are encouraged to do so.

You DID ask the question. I can't help it if you don't like the answer.

[roadkill525]

if yer leavin the game and givin up yer account... its not you thats gotta worrie about it being bad its the person buying the account. that is unless you are the person looking to buy

[newguy]

if yer leavin the game and givin up yer account... its not you thats gotta worrie about it being bad its the person buying the account. that is unless you are the person looking to buy

not sure that's true. Girlfriend has been playing on a bought account for 2 years now.

[Quanefel]

No one is trying to act like the police here. You asked a question and got the answer. I was just pointing out that you may have had the answer all along by your own actions. If you can not take a hint from a player like me that...maybe you should be careful, please do not take it personally. If I came off snotty or mean-spirited, I apologize. It was not my intent.

[unionyes]

not sure that's true. Girlfriend has been playing on a bought account for 2 years now.

I bought one myself. Of course, when I bought it from Turbine there were zero characters, zero favor, and zero items in my newly purchased account. In fact, it was empty and my first character had no favor and started off on the wharf outside Stormreach with some starter gear and a dream. Good times, good times.

On the other hand, if you mean that you want to buy/sell an account chock full of high level characters, plat, uber items, stuff like that, just one question. Why?

You will miss out on all the lowbie quests, some of which are amazingly fun. Where is the joy of pulling your first elemental weapon? Running around Butchers Path with your +1 longsword and +1 splintmail feeling like you were freaking invincible? Joining a group and announcing, for the first time, 'gather on me for haste'? Getting that fire trap in STK for the first time? The first time you raised someone from the dead? Taking out the Dragon at level 9 or 10? Finally getting your AC up high enough to stand toe to toe with an enraged ogre or troll and not get critted twice in three seconds? Watching the triple digit red numbers float up to the sky from the mobs in your first Max Empowered Item boosted Firewall and thinking 'holy ****, that's wicked'?

You miss out on a lot, and I feel sorry for ya. The only bad thing that happens to me when someone plays a bought account is that they don't know the game or how to play their characters and screw up my group. Easily remedied by 'friends' listing.

[Strakeln]

If you're planning on leaving the game permanently, I'd have to say you'd be foolish to not sell your account (assuming you do all the groundwork to secure your private info from the purchaser). It is undoubtably against the EULA, but if you're leaving the game forever, the EULA really doesn't apply to you anymore (you are no longer an end user).

[ENGRAV0]

Hmm, something I hadn't even thought of, LoL.

Is it Illegal? No. Nothing you do in this game is Illegal, however, if it is discovered and since it is against the EULA, they CAN Ban the account, which would leave the individual who purchases it trying to get back in touch with you for doing such. And fear not, I am quite sure that if there is any character worth anything on that account, that the original person who played will be more than recognized to NOT be in control after only a few short quests.

Of course, I could be all wrong here.

[newguy]

If you're planning on leaving the game permanently, I'd have to say you'd be foolish to not sell your account (assuming you do all the groundwork to secure your private info from the purchaser). It is undoubtably against the EULA, but if you're leaving the game forever, the EULA really doesn't apply to you anymore (you are no longer an end user).

exactly. The account is probably one of the best with the combination of loot, cash and lvl 16 toons. There's been a TON of work put in to it and I hate to see it just dissipate.

Seems Turbine would be more willing to keep the account going than let it go and lose the monthly income.

[The_Mighty_Cube]

Selling of your game account is a violation of the Terms of Service, and can result in revocation of your account without refund.

[Oreg]

Selling of your game account is a violation of the Terms of Service, and can result in revocation of your account without refund.

In other words if they find out you sold the account they can technically still revoke it since technically it is still your account.

[newguy]

Selling of your game account is a violation of the Terms of Service, and can result in revocation of your account without refund.

If we can't sell it, but we can give it away, what's the difference to Turbine?

[Vizzini]

Why in the hell would you buy an account 2 years ago lol, you may as well have started from the beginning. Obviously your here to Troll, and I want nothing more to do with it.


not sure that's true. Girlfriend has been playing on a bought account for 2 years now.

[Vizzini]

That's amusing, I also use my "Friends" list to identify people I NEVER want to party with again, so I can avoid them like the plauge.


The only bad thing that happens to me when someone plays a bought account is that they don't know the game or how to play their characters and screw up my group. Easily remedied by 'friends' listing.

[unionyes]

That's amusing, I also use my "Friends" list to identify people I NEVER want to party with again, so I can avoid them like the plauge.

Me too :)

[Osharan_Tregarth]

If we can't sell it, but we can give it away, what's the difference to Turbine?

I'm pretty sure giving accounts away is also a violation of the same agreement the cube mentioned. It's pretty broad...



You may not advertise the intent to, or commit the act of, unauthorized selling, buying, transferring or sharing access to any Game account.

Pretty much says that if you decide not to play, you're not actually allowed to give the account away either.

[newguy]

Why in the hell would you buy an account 2 years ago lol, you may as well have started from the beginning. Obviously your here to Troll, and I want nothing more to do with it.

Give or take..it's been about 2 years. The game was a little over 6 months old and she wanted to run with me, and not play "catch up" .

never tried to convince you, actually I could care less if you believe me.


I'm pretty sure giving accounts away is also a violation of the same agreement the cube mentioned. It's pretty broad...




Pretty much says that if you decide not to play, you're not actually allowed to give the account away either.

no, Turbine said a long time ago, giving the account to someone was fine.

[Grimdiegn]

What, your post on the VN boards got eaten so you come here? :rolleyes:

[alchilito]

Give or take..it's been about 2 years. The game was a little over 6 months old and she wanted to run with me, and not play "catch up" .

never tried to convince you, actually I could care less if you believe me.



no, Turbine said a long time ago, giving the account to someone was fine.

you dont seem like a newguy with posts like these :)

[Vizzini]

Basically it's like this....

It is all Turbines Intellectual property, I'm pretty sure giving it away is ok, and the reason being is your not profiting from their product. It belongs to turbine, if you choose to abandon it, that is of course your prerogative.

It's the same reason it's not legal to sell Gold on WoW, or Plat for DDO, or Items for Diablo 2.. the property belongs to their respective companies. You are only paying for the right to play, not ownership of items your character may acquire in the game.

Now, enough withthe questions, and just use a little common sense.

[newguy]

Basically it's like this....

It is all Turbines Intellectual property, I'm pretty sure giving it away is ok, and the reason being is your not profiting from their product. It belongs to turbine, if you choose to abandon it, that is of course your prerogative.

It's the same reason it's not legal to sell Gold on WoW, or Plat for DDO, or Items for Diablo 2.. the property belongs to their respective companies. You are only paying for the right to play, not ownership of items your character may acquire in the game.

Now, enough withthe questions, and just use a little common sense.

That's true, but the best (and on-going) argument is that people selling accounts/gold/items/whatever are not selling the items themselves, they are selling the time invested in obtaining the said items.

It's a lame excuse, but has actually gone to court over a wow case a few years ago and the person won his case, had his account reinstated, then ironically was banned for something a few weeks later! lol

It's semantics I know but the part I question is simply, what difference does it make to Turbine if an account is given away or sold. Either way they still collect a monthly fee...

[Vizzini]

Their argument will undoubtedly be, reporting losses from money being exchanged from something that was solely created by them. It's why you cannot use rights to a song, or trademarks logos, or phrases without paying royalties to the original creator. If turbine had not created the platinum and items, you would have nothing to sell, and there by make no money for the transaction.

It comes down to Turbine, and all companies wanting a piece of the pie.


That's true, but the best (and on-going) argument is that people selling accounts/gold/items/whatever are not selling the items themselves, they are selling the time invested in obtaining the said items.

It's a lame excuse, but has actually gone to court over a wow case a few years ago and the person won his case, had his account reinstated, then ironically was banned for something a few weeks later! lol

It's semantics I know but the part I question is simply, what difference does it make to Turbine if an account is given away or sold. Either way they still collect a monthly fee...

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

...I know...Is it because they don't want anyone except them to make real world money off the game?

Or is it they are trying to prevent someone making a business out of power leveling an account an d selling it..

Or is it because...well...none of us like it when we get tricked into inviting a level 11 + character in the party who doesn't even know what WW is...or a heal...or a pot? and we are verbal about it?

[Vizzini]

I suspect it's more along the line of your first and second reasoning. You underestimate the draw of money and corporate greed. They didn't decide to make DDO, just because they wanted to please us devoted 20 year pen and paper players. They did it because they saw a market and wanted to make money, just like any other capital business would do.


...I know...Is it because they don't want anyone except them to make real world money off the game?

Or is it they are trying to prevent someone making a business out of power leveling an account an d selling it..

Or is it because...well...none of us like it when we get tricked into inviting a level 11 + character in the party who doesn't even know what WW is...or a heal...or a pot? and we are verbal about it?

[ENGRAV0]

Selling of your game account is a violation of the Terms of Service, and can result in revocation of your account without refund.

What about OUR REASONABLE expectations? Terms of service CAN be legaly binding and function BOTH ways.

[Uska]

NO

[ENGRAV0]

NO

Eh?

If that was in response to my reply, then, indeed, YES, they can be. Luckily, LEGAL issues CAN go to our advantage. But, you're not talking an easy fight, I will admit. See, not only did I (Digitaly) sign an EULA, but, Everyone one of us signed an agreement, and by paying each month, there is reasonable expectations that if not met, could indeed wind up with financial embarrassment for Turbine.

Publicity is Publicity, wether it be positive, or negative, Making threads in various open forums, making statements to gamer magazines (Not as hard as you may think), these are all viable techniques that can bring a simple issue to a boiling point, and cause vast damage to almost anything.

[newguy]

Eh?

If that was in response to my reply, then, indeed, YES, they can be. Luckily, LEGAL issues CAN go to our advantage. But, you're not talking an easy fight, I will admit. See, not only did I (Digitaly) sign an EULA, but, Everyone one of us signed an agreement, and by paying each month, there is reasonable expectations that if not met, could indeed wind up with financial embarrassment for Turbine.

Publicity is Publicity, wether it be positive, or negative, Making threads in various open forums, making statements to gamer magazines (Not as hard as you may think), these are all viable techniques that can bring a simple issue to a boiling point, and cause vast damage to almost anything.

exactly. the EULA only says they own the items/money/characters that exist in the game....they can't own the time invested. That's how the WoW case was lost.

Again it's just semantics tho...but they were good enough to win in court.

It's really not my intent to start a law suit or anything as extreme...I'm just posing the question (again) what difference does it make to you (Turbine) if I give my account away or sell it?

[jbrownos]

I suspect that what it boils down to legally is this: there is nothing to contractually compel Turbine to continue doing business with you. If they choose not to allow you to pay for access to their servers, they are most likely well within their rights to do so. Even if you paid for a software license, they don't HAVE to provide you with servers to play on, and certainly not for an unlimited period of time. At best, you might be able to require them to either prorate that month's charges or finish the month out, if you could prove that you didn't violate your end of the contract.

The problem with claiming legal ownership over "time invested" is that Turbine isn't required to enable you access to your investment. If you had some way of using that invested time in some way that didn't involve Turbine, then they couldn't stop you. But for comparison, if you created a work of art on some website and the site shut down, they don't have to let you access anything beyond the limits of any business arrangement you may have. I don't know the particulars of the case you mentioned, but I certainly wouldn't rely on such an argument standing up in court, even if anyone was willing to pay thousands of dollars in legal costs to test it.

I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't be allowed to buy/sell accounts. I personally don't think people should do it, but I'm not sure I like the idea of people being legally prevented from it (and keep in mind when I say legally I'm talking about a civil matter here, as this is hardly a criminal offense). If you really do care about the time you invested, then it almost seems like a slap in the face to allow someone to have the same accomplishments by just throwing out some money. So I guess my opinion is that people shouldn't do it, but the game companies shouldn't necessarily threaten bans to enforce it.

And as for Turbine's business reputation being harmed, I wouldn't count on that either. It's a very common policy in MMOs to ban people for buying and selling accounts/items/money, and plenty of other companies do it regularly with pretty much no repercussions. On the off chance that you do happen to get caught (by discussing it with a different forum account from the same IP address, for example) I doubt you would have a lot of recourse.

[Strakeln]

Turbine has plenty of incentive to not want you to sell your account, several of these reasons were listed by others above.

It comes down to this: it's against the rules, and if Turbine finds out they will ban the account. This may cause the buyer to be unhappy with you.

I hope you're posting from a different computer than your home one ;)

[Uska]

Eh?

If that was in response to my reply, then, indeed, YES, they can be. Luckily, LEGAL issues CAN go to our advantage. But, you're not talking an easy fight, I will admit. See, not only did I (Digitaly) sign an EULA, but, Everyone one of us signed an agreement, and by paying each month, there is reasonable expectations that if not met, could indeed wind up with financial embarrassment for Turbine.

Publicity is Publicity, wether it be positive, or negative, Making threads in various open forums, making statements to gamer magazines (Not as hard as you may think), these are all viable techniques that can bring a simple issue to a boiling point, and cause vast damage to almost anything.

Was just stating you cant sell an account nothing towards you there bud....

[ENGRAV0]

Eh, Uska, never a problem. We each know various things, and state our "Opinions" and "Facts" (notice both are covered before I get flamed by anyone who scans across this thread) based on various sources we have come across, things we have witnessed, and things we have been parts of, so I REALLY try to never let these things get personal. If it ever seems so, just shoot me a PM and I will clear up anthing. Sorry.

my point was something along the lines of: A company with a Name, any name, if it is recognizable from that name, is easily put in a rough spot when they neglect their users requests over and over, and someone finally calls them on it in a very public manner. This isn't any type of threat, just a mere point. I have personnaly been involved with a greif (Through a freind, I was asked for some info on his issue from a Computer Gaming Magazine) that eventualy came down to, fix it, and we can make a good story line, or don't fix it, and everyone gets to find out about it, ANYWHERE that their magazine was sold.

Am I to that point yet, nah, but it is looking interesting to bring back some contact info I have to at least bring attention outside of these forums where we are kept in the dark for what, in my opinion, is far too long.

[kazekamio]

I would like to point our from personal experience, that so much as ASKING about a rule can get you banned. Not to long ago, I asked if it was legal to sell plat. I knew if was very very frowned upon, but I was at risk of not being able to keep up my subscription and I wanted a few extra dollars to make sure I could keep playing. I was very politely told by several members that it is infact against the rules, and I responded with something along the lines of " Thats not the answer I was hoping for, but I guess its better to be safe then sorry" and instead of prying further, I did some extra chores for family and friends to make up the difference.

Then, three days into my new subscription... I get banned. The day after I notice I am banned, I contact turbine. I am told I am banned, for an unknown offence. After some communication I get ahold of a higher up, and I am told I was banned for trying to sell plat on the forums. So, dispite how ... irritated I was. I continued polite communication to try and explain.. I was not trying to sell, I was trying to ask if it was legal. And when I was told its not, I moved on to other means of gathering cash OFFLINE.

It took Turbine 3 weeks to tell the difference between " Is it legal to sell ingame currency for real life money?" And " ZOMG CHEAP PLAT HERE DUDES! " So now, My subscription has ended again. I dont have the money to pay for it yet. I got 3 days worth of play time out of an entire month's subscription because of Turbines hyperactive ban-hammer.

Point being, Turbine does not seem to care that they keep a steady stream of monthly subscriptions off of this game. All they care about, is they invested time first, they are the only ones allowed to make any money off this game be it for virtual items or time invested.

By the way... I do not mean to sound rude or insulting. But this really irritates me.. (my above stated situation) and I am sitting here wondering if I even wanna pay for another month when Turbine slapped me around so hard for no reason at all, and refuses to at least give me my three weeks back.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

exactly. the EULA only says they own the items/money/characters that exist in the game....they can't own the time invested. That's how the WoW case was lost.

Again it's just semantics tho...but they were good enough to win in court.

It's really not my intent to start a law suit or anything as extreme...I'm just posing the question (again) what difference does it make to you (Turbine) if I give my account away or sell it?

The judge was an idiot.

And anyone who buys a DDO account is also an idiot. The whole point of D&D is levelling, building a char the way you want. In WoW maybe its different but there are no two L16 chars that are the same in this game. Buying a L16 account is just basically saying, great, now I have one capped to time to start at L1 again...so what's the point? Some plat and items? Now you are just buying plat a different way.

Dumb, really dumb, to buy a DDO account.

[Uska]

Eh, Uska, never a problem. We each know various things, and state our "Opinions" and "Facts" (notice both are covered before I get flamed by anyone who scans across this thread) based on various sources we have come across, things we have witnessed, and things we have been parts of, so I REALLY try to never let these things get personal. If it ever seems so, just shoot me a PM and I will clear up anthing. Sorry.

my point was something along the lines of: A company with a Name, any name, if it is recognizable from that name, is easily put in a rough spot when they neglect their users requests over and over, and someone finally calls them on it in a very public manner. This isn't any type of threat, just a mere point. I have personnaly been involved with a greif (Through a freind, I was asked for some info on his issue from a Computer Gaming Magazine) that eventualy came down to, fix it, and we can make a good story line, or don't fix it, and everyone gets to find out about it, ANYWHERE that their magazine was sold.

Am I to that point yet, nah, but it is looking interesting to bring back some contact info I have to at least bring attention outside of these forums where we are kept in the dark for what, in my opinion, is far too long.

Me either and always fun to spar with people life wouldnt be any fun if everyone was the same.

[crock]

So since you cannot sell youraccount... Can I have your stuff?

[Wizzly_Bear]

So since you cannot sell youraccount... Can I have your stuff?
he can sell it. thing is he's not allowed to so if its found out it will be banned.

[randallflagg]

Great idea: selling accounts with lvl 16 toons! not.

Why?.. so I can be standing at the AH in the marketplace with my lvl 6 drow rogue and some
lvl 16 caster who has no idea what he/she is doing can cast +1000 hp or +25 jump on the area?
How annoying is that.

It's bad enough when capped toons run around bragging about how that solo'd the reaver or some
other high lvl quest! Or capped toons who complain about new content every day after playing 16
hours a day for 6 straight months!

Now were gonna have lvl 16 toons who have never played the game for a minute running around
being a nuisance! Thanks but no thanks.

So you feel like letting go of your so hard worked for account is for nothing? What about the
hundreds of hours of enjoyment you gained from all the gameplay?!
That wasn't exactly "for nothing" was it?

Turbine, please find a way to prevent this from happening.