General AC paladin build questions

[WorldTraveler]

I've started a new fighter4/paladin11/undecided character. Much of his planning depends
on what he is capable of training for and when to take the third fighter level. I'm also pretty
up in the air about what the other level should be. The fighter four levels is a hard set decision
For his long term plan. Without it, I miss out on a feat and most of those are already planned.

Three questions I don't really know came up.

Does fighter mobility enhancement add two of the same dodge bonus type AC or regular armor AC?
I ask this primarily because the compendiums enhancement description is a bit unclear. I look at the
mobility feat description and it says only adds a +4 to AC while tumbling. The enhancement description
implies this would go up to +6 while tumbling for taking the enhancement. I would assume that is of
the same AC category the planner lists as dodge, but the description isn't specific. Also, just out of
curiosity for the tumble skill challenged and the overburdened character, does in not count as 'tumbling'
if you don't roll? In other words, if I got overladen with heavy items and found myself hopping, would I
be able to take advantage of the AC bonus?

Does having an attribute boosting item on allow you to take a feat with a prerequisite minimum ability
if you don't have enough without the item? For example, to take two weapon fighting feat, you need
a 15 dex minimum. With a +3 dex item, a dex of 13 is 16. So can you put on the item before leveling
up and take the feat? This question also came up in considering a feat exchange on my main to get
combat expertise. I can find an item that'll get him the int needed, but without it on, he doesn't have
a high enough score. It would seem that you can glean the benefits of minimum requisites for spell
casting from an item, as I remember taking a cleric level just for the benefit of healing wands on an early
character. The trainer warned him about not having high enough wisdom, but allowed him to continue.
Without a wisdom item on, he couldn't cast. Put it on, and he could. So they'll let you train for a thing
with a min attribute requirement like casting spells, but will they let you take a feat based on it? And/or
will Fred exchange you a feat based on having an item on or not.

And finally, what third level might I take for advantages? I've seen the cleric/eek out some free self
dps option. I considered sorcerer because this guys super charisma plan is in alignment with sorcerers,
but the level would only allow for one loose action points trade for first level of energy of the
dragonblooded and it's 30 bonus spell points and the ability to use arcane wands and scrolls. Well,
that and being able to cast shield himself for when he is two weapon fighting. Of course his future as
a two weapon fighter is in danger of being put on hold until I luck onto a +2 dex tome if only non item
enhanced ability is needed to have the feat prerequisite. Attached to the question of what it should be
is the same question of when it should be. His was a modification of the pre mod six 11 paladin/3 fighter
intimitank plan. For one thing, I'm not putting any skill points into intimidate. I have a level 16 pure
paladin main, and he's never used intimidate. He has no trouble getting attention by dealing damage.
I doubt this guy will have much of a problem there either. I also chose not to go with the enhancements
suggested, but then as these can always be reset, changing your mind on those later is just expensive.
Related to the earlier question about item enhanced attributes versus base attribute score is whether an
extra int + bonus would get me five skill points per level instead of four. Does it matter to put on an int
item before training for skill purposes?

I like to think of this as my first serious attempt at an uber build, minus the proliferance of tomes that
seem to be dropping like rain for everyone else. My eek out that next skill point by being one shy and then
getting it with a tome trick during attribute spending was to know that +1 items awaited me off the boat.
Many +6 items await me on my main. Appropriate rearrangements of the skill build plan were made to
accomodate all but that final guarenteed +2 tome for 1750 favor. He's a 32 point human, and has the first
two as fighter and took his third recently as paladin. Beyond that, it's still open. Any help and input would
be greatly appreciated.

[sigtrent]

I've started a new fighter4/paladin11/undecided character.


Does fighter mobility enhancement add two of the same dodge bonus type AC or regular armor AC?

Generaly dodge bonuses alwasy stack with themselves and with other bonuses. So the +4 ac stacks with all other dodge bonuses and armor etc. Sadly tumbling is only when you are actualy tumbling around so it is pretty much useless. The only reason to take it is to get access to other feats. Generaly a paladin wouldn't have the feats needed to take much advantage of them. I'm not sure if mobility takes effect when hopping or not (never tried it) but reguardless I wouldn't recomend it.


Does having an attribute boosting item on allow you to take a feat with a prerequisite minimum ability if you don't have enough without the item?

Nope. The only things that help you qualify for feats in DDO are level up bonuses and tomes. Items and spells don't count. (In normal D&D they do but in normal D&D if you temporarily have them reduced you can't use the feats. DDO kind of simplified it so you have to have permanent scores to qualify in the first place.)

So to get CE you have to bite the bullet and have 13 int (a fair number start at 12 and eat a tome to take it at a later level). CE is pretty much required for a hard core tank. It is kind of hard to work with though as it mucks around with spell casting.


And finally, what third level might I take for advantages?

It depends a bit on your overall goal. It seems you are going for a self reliant high AC character but not a tank in the inimi-tank sense. There arn't many addional options once you get to 4/11. Ranger isn't very usefull, you cant take barbarian or bard. Wizard doesn't have much and I wouldn't go cleric or sorc for the spell casting unless you really wanted that to be a focus. I've done builds with both but they were for paladins that wanted to be mostly support characters and not front line fighters. I can see an argument for rogue...

Rogue: You gain 1d6 sneak attack and if you take it early on you can maintain a full UMD score. The sneak attack doesn't do a lot for a dps fighter but its kind of fun and is good for helping to steal agro. The UMD is the main attraction. If you take 2 rogue eventualy you can access evasion of course. Fighter/Rogue/Paladin just kind of attract one another as classes.

Other than that... its either more paladin or fighter looking into future level bumps. Fighter leads to more strength and a feat at level 6, paladin leads to more AC and 4th level spells. (the spells are admitidly not super exciting although I like having death ward). Fighter is more emediate gain, so I think I'd round out with that. 8/12 is probably a nice split at level 20.

Personaly I think if I were going for a non intimidate paladin I'd go for a slashing focus, and alternate between two handed fighting for DPS and one handed kopesh for a more defensive stance. TWF is a bit better than THF but it requres you to invest in dex and for most paladins it's kind of a waste unless you are a dwarf or doing an evasion build. You certainly want power attack and improved critical slashing. After that its more a toss up. The THF feats are pretty good but not required. Cleave and great cleave are quite nice for sword and board. (they don't mix well with the THF feats but are fine wtih the style itself) Weapon focus and weapon specilization are good for pure damage sicne you have fighter 4.

[WorldTraveler]

Thank you for addressing some of my main concerns with actually making this work. I have no access
to tomes, but have enough of every attribute plus item to negate this somewhat, though the base
score for requisites does kinda leave me less room to work with during skill point spending. I may
have to play with the options of those races with a +2 natural starting bonus to the important
attributes on the planner and see if I can eek out any progress towards min attributes that way to
offset the human starting out 8. Drow was the first effectively 32 point build I had access to, and
my main 16 paladin is drow. I learned of a trick that I thought to use with this guy whereby I could
put no points into wisdom, and not suffer will saves. I took force of personality and know that his
plan includes pushing charisma so high that getting that twice will really boost the will save. I
know it takes a min wisdom to cast spells, but I had the human fighter who took cleric levels
with less than an 11 anyway who could cast with a wisdom item but not without.

As for dex, I have a fifteen item and knew that he would be going for a mithral full plate armor
use, and so with fighter armor mastery I as high as he would attain, then my +5 gloves could
raise a starting dex of 13 to 18 for the +4. One problem I had with the idea of making him able to
be a two weapon capable fighter was the requirement of a 15 min. Given that and the pulling
down of attribute starting scores, I have thought about pouring it all into dex and charisma instead
and making a weapons finesse two fighter with the mithral chain shirt line. Bonus there is I already
have +5 mithral chain shirt on the main. Problem is that the finessable weapons suck. but with an
uber high dex, even sword and board fighting would get the good attack and damage rolls. Two
handed, he might just have the potential to be a dps machine with a good deal of that high AC build
potential. Thanks again for the help. I must have caught the build bug, cause I've found myself
spending hours I normally would be playing the game just using the planner and
compendium to experiment with tweaks here and there.