Respec issues

[Necroconvict]

Alright, so I comming back to the game after nearly 2 years, was impressed that you can respec toons. I went out earned the money to get 2 imperfect siberys dragonshards, only to find out that after using the first shard, I could NOT use the second shard to get what I wanted. I had back when I used to play Power attack and Cleave. for my 5th lvl I took fighter, and chose to take Dodge. I replaced Cleave (had to replace cleave first because it requires power attack), I replace it with Mobility. I waited 3 days to change Power Attack with Spring attack, and the game will not let me. So I have wasted a ton of money and time waiting for nothing. I have a lvl 1 creation level feat, Dodge, I have the lvl 3 feat of Mobility, why not at 5th lvl with BOTH required feats and the needed BaB of +4 can I not take Spring attack?

[JKJudgeX]

Ehh, they make it a chore to respec... probably some kind of trickery you have to do with the UI etc.

You still can't respec your stats, so... blah... don't suggest they make any changes, god forbid you make the community of dev-leeches angry ;)

[Invalid_86]

Ehh, they make it a chore to respec... probably some kind of trickery you have to do with the UI etc.

You still can't respec your stats, so... blah... don't suggest they make any changes, god forbid you make the community of dev-leeches angry ;)

You can respec your stats- every 4 levels you get to make one a point higher.

Why are you complaining? The respecs here are way more lenient than they are in PnP.

[JKJudgeX]

Are they more lenient? I've known of plenty of Dungeon Masters who would allow a new player to swap numbers around once the player was more accustomed to the game rules. DMs also allow variant point-buy or stat-rolling systems to mitigate stat imbalances, and, if a character or characters in a party suck, a real DM can still make the game fun by reducing the challenge of combat and offering rewards that the players can access without combat-heaviness.

My argument? No DM = Respecs, please... unless you have a REALLY, REALLY good justification for why I can't change the stats of a character once or twice throughout his career to better fit what I've learned about the game.

Also in PnP, if my character dies at level 5, and I roll a new one, guess what level he gets to come in at? Depending on the DM, level 5. DDO, I reroll? Level 1, even if I have a level 16 with a bajillion favor.

PnP D&D is about 1000 times more enjoyable than DDO for many, many factors, and DM lenience and flexibility is one of those reasons, and one that DDO devs opt to completely eliminate from the game.

When you sit down to play D&D for real for the first time, and your DM spots you neglecting your strength on a fighter character, or neglecting your skills on a rogue character, he'll nudge you and go "You might want that to be a little higher, the challenges you'll face will probably require strength a lot"... or if not, make the game enjoyable regardless of how "realistic" the characters are.

I've had 3 bards on DDO.
Pure Bard... 1st character, SUCKED. Did not enjoy the game at all.
Bard Rogue... gimped strength and went for weapon finesse... SUCKED HARD.
Bard Rogue #2, Loved this guy and had the most fun with him, however, many other factors of the game (such as the amount of XP grind present in it and the declining population on Thelanis) pushed me away from the game.

[Albel]

Alright, so I comming back to the game after nearly 2 years, was impressed that you can respec toons. I went out earned the money to get 2 imperfect siberys dragonshards, only to find out that after using the first shard, I could NOT use the second shard to get what I wanted. I had back when I used to play Power attack and Cleave. for my 5th lvl I took fighter, and chose to take Dodge. I replaced Cleave (had to replace cleave first because it requires power attack), I replace it with Mobility. I waited 3 days to change Power Attack with Spring attack, and the game will not let me. So I have wasted a ton of money and time waiting for nothing. I have a lvl 1 creation level feat, Dodge, I have the lvl 3 feat of Mobility, why not at 5th lvl with BOTH required feats and the needed BaB of +4 can I not take Spring attack?

The game keeps track of what level you took a feat and the replacement feat must have been a legal selection at that level.

The game sees that you took power attack (assumably at levels 1,2 or 3) and sees that spring attack cannot be gotten at any of those levels as you couldn't have had the required BaB at that time, so it won't let you make the switch, the only way (not really a good way) for you to do the respec is to change out all your feats one by one in such a way as to have them fit in feat slots where you could have taken them in the first place.

ie dodge at lvl 1, mobility at 3, and spring attack at 5 etc.

[Necroconvict]

You may not be able to do such respecs in PnP but you have a REAL DM there to do stuff with you, alter stuff based upon the party. Make real rolls based on skills.

Dodge and Power attack are both able to be taken at lvl 1

Mobility can be taken with 13 dex, and Dodge

Spring attack needs Dodge Mobility, 13 dex, and BaB of +4

I took Dodge at lvl 5 (1st lvl fighter)
then changed Cleave out for mobility

why can it not simply register Dodge as a lvl 1 feat, and let me take spring attack? If a real DM had been letting me make such a change, sent me on a quest in order to earn it. He would see the point of it.

My problem is I did not know there were additional rules in respecing, there are no in game rules posted on it. Other players told me where to find Fred, Fred told me I needed 1 Imperfect Siberys Dragonshard, and 12.5k gold. He should have something in his text explaining the additional rules, or a link, something to stop this from being a problem. I can not be the only guy to ever have this problem. People who have been playing a long time probably know the rules. Those of us effectively labeled as new, can only guess.

Edit here, so in order to respec at this point I need 4 imperfect shards, and a ton of gold, who has that? a new player no, a high lvl player with tons of gold, that has new gear for each level of his new rolled toon, yes. I am sorry I do not know the mechanics, and that I do not have a couple million gold. But there should be something here to help me without saying well go reroll your toon.

[Invalid_86]

Are they more lenient? I've known of plenty of Dungeon Masters who would allow a new player to swap numbers around once the player was more accustomed to the game rules. DMs also allow variant point-buy or stat-rolling systems to mitigate stat imbalances, and, if a character or characters in a party suck, a real DM can still make the game fun by reducing the challenge of combat and offering rewards that the players can access without combat-heaviness.

My argument? No DM = Respecs, please... unless you have a REALLY, REALLY good justification for why I can't change the stats of a character once or twice throughout his career to better fit what I've learned about the game.

Also in PnP, if my character dies at level 5, and I roll a new one, guess what level he gets to come in at? Depending on the DM, level 5. DDO, I reroll? Level 1, even if I have a level 16 with a bajillion favor.

PnP D&D is about 1000 times more enjoyable than DDO for many, many factors, and DM lenience and flexibility is one of those reasons, and one that DDO devs opt to completely eliminate from the game.

When you sit down to play D&D for real for the first time, and your DM spots you neglecting your strength on a fighter character, or neglecting your skills on a rogue character, he'll nudge you and go "You might want that to be a little higher, the challenges you'll face will probably require strength a lot"... or if not, make the game enjoyable regardless of how "realistic" the characters are.

I've had 3 bards on DDO.
Pure Bard... 1st character, SUCKED. Did not enjoy the game at all.
Bard Rogue... gimped strength and went for weapon finesse... SUCKED HARD.
Bard Rogue #2, Loved this guy and had the most fun with him, however, many other factors of the game (such as the amount of XP grind present in it and the declining population on Thelanis) pushed me away from the game.

What you do with one DM, who can keep an eye on one small group of players in his campaign is a very different thing.

Play in large scale organized DnD events like the RPGA. What you are talking about doesn't happen.

Sorry but extreme stat respecs have no precedence in DnD or in real life. They were made up to keep mmo powergamers happy when they thought their character wasn't uber enough.

You just seem to want a dm that will just let you get away with things so your character can be cooler. Well you can't do that on a large scale.

[Necroconvict]

But this system is still only helping the power gamers, not the people who are new. The new blood in the game are still being hit in a way they can not afford for a mistake. The power gamer can just throw money at the problem and make it go away.

[honkuimushi]

The Siberys shards that were added to the game make respeccing a lot easier. Using the stone of change near the bank will allow you to combine them into better shards. You can also do Lockania's quest for a free respec token.

Now, this may not be what you want to hear, but instead of trying to respec everything, why not level to 6th and take Spring Attack as your 6th level feat? Power Attack is a very useful feat, you may want to keep it. I certainly wouldn't call it a wasted feat.

[Uska]

You may not be able to do such respecs in PnP but you have a REAL DM there to do stuff with you, alter stuff based upon the party. Make real rolls based on skills.

Dodge and Power attack are both able to be taken at lvl 1

Mobility can be taken with 13 dex, and Dodge

Spring attack needs Dodge Mobility, 13 dex, and BaB of +4

I took Dodge at lvl 5 (1st lvl fighter)
then changed Cleave out for mobility

why can it not simply register Dodge as a lvl 1 feat, and let me take spring attack? If a real DM had been letting me make such a change, sent me on a quest in order to earn it. He would see the point of it.

My problem is I did not know there were additional rules in respecing, there are no in game rules posted on it. Other players told me where to find Fred, Fred told me I needed 1 Imperfect Siberys Dragonshard, and 12.5k gold. He should have something in his text explaining the additional rules, or a link, something to stop this from being a problem. I can not be the only guy to ever have this problem. People who have been playing a long time probably know the rules. Those of us effectively labeled as new, can only guess.

Edit here, so in order to respec at this point I need 4 imperfect shards, and a ton of gold, who has that? a new player no, a high lvl player with tons of gold, that has new gear for each level of his new rolled toon, yes. I am sorry I do not know the mechanics, and that I do not have a couple million gold. But there should be something here to help me without saying well go reroll your toon.


Umm I am a real gm and I wouldnt let you do the things your talking about on dodge you knew what you were wanting to do so plan it from the start. I dont allow respecs and never have in my 30+ years of playing and none of my gms have either, you want one reroll and most of the time if yoiu died in our games you started at 1st level which did make things hard sometimes.

[Uska]

As another poster stated keep power attack its pretty useful spring attack matters a little less, yes I have it on one fighter but most of the time its just easier to stand still and just pound the mob that way or if they run away to shoot them in the back, even with spring attack it can be pretty hard to hit some mobs if they are running away or chasing someone else

[FluffyCalico]

But this system is still only helping the power gamers, not the people who are new. The new blood in the game are still being hit in a way they can not afford for a mistake. The power gamer can just throw money at the problem and make it go away.

Your character is level 5! Wait til your day off make a level 1 the way you want and have it at level 5 in about 3-4 hrs. Problem solved. The feat respec is more for like a level 12-16 who wants to change a feat than a character that is a couple hrs old. That is why you get 1 free feat respec by completing the dragon mark quest in the harbor (newbe respec) and one as a reward for 75 GH favor (level 13 area). That allows anyone at level 13 that did GH stuff to change out 2 feats for free. That is far far more than any GM I ever met. GMs also do things like hm should not have let that chest drop a vorpal (level 25 epic theif steals it from you in the night)

[FluffyCalico]

Umm I am a real gm and I wouldnt let you do the things your talking about on dodge you knew what you were wanting to do so plan it from the start. I dont allow respecs and never have in my 30+ years of playing and none of my gms have either, you want one reroll and most of the time if yoiu died in our games you started at 1st level which did make things hard sometimes.

Agree, although I would usually let the party go on a special quest to find a high level cleric to bring you back at -1 perm con reduction.

[Uska]

Agree, although I would usually let the party go on a special quest to find a high level cleric to bring you back at -1 perm con reduction.

Yeah we did that sometimes or a high level druid or wizard with reincarnation. but in most of our worlds it was rare to find those, we generally played low magic worlds so a +1 or 2 weapon was special so were the casters in the group

[Necroconvict]

The biggest point of this is the fact that, no where in game (where we play) does it mention special rules. You only learn there are special rules after you can not do what you thought. Fred should be changed to direct you to these rules. It helps cure frustration. I sadly only have 21 years of D&D not the 30+ some of you say you have. A normal campaign with a good DM, and a good party do not have to worry about power gamers. So things work much better. You do not have to attempt to gear yourself, and set stuff up to be the best of the best. You can be an actual character in the world. You can choose to use your skills in real and different ways that you can not in this game. This game makes exceptions because it knows it can never do what a group of real people can do.

As for lvl 5 in 2- 4 hours, I assume that is rushing and as above named power gaming. I like to play casual not be forced to just blow through everything. It takes away from what I see my character as. I get involved a bit in how I play my characters. They are of course an imaginary extension of myself lol. I do not have the stuff though that lets me crit for 100 + damage at like lvl 3 or 4 like I have seen others do. Run through and take almost no damage on things like Guard Jung running elite at lvl 3. Doing hard and Elite on Irestone, with a mix party of lvl 3- 4 toons. I have not spent the time you have here. Some of you seem to feel that I am even wasting your time by posting this in the first place.

I am just wondering if anyone thinks there should be a preemptive explanation about how respecs work to solve a problem before it starts? Why tell a player there is a way to fix there mistake, and then after they set up to do it, so oh btw you did it wrong, so you can not do it now. or it will take you 2 weeks instead of 3 days. Help, not hurt.

[Nevthial]

The feat respect system has had bugs in the past. It can also be confusing as others have posted. Just curious, what server are you on? I may have a spare imperfect shard or two.

[FluffyCalico]

The biggest point of this is the fact that, no where in game (where we play) does it mention special rules. You only learn there are special rules after you can not do what you thought. Fred should be changed to direct you to these rules. It helps cure frustration. I sadly only have 21 years of D&D not the 30+ some of you say you have. A normal campaign with a good DM, and a good party do not have to worry about power gamers. So things work much better. You do not have to attempt to gear yourself, and set stuff up to be the best of the best. You can be an actual character in the world. You can choose to use your skills in real and different ways that you can not in this game. This game makes exceptions because it knows it can never do what a group of real people can do.

As for lvl 5 in 2- 4 hours, I assume that is rushing and as above named power gaming. I like to play casual not be forced to just blow through everything. It takes away from what I see my character as. I get involved a bit in how I play my characters. They are of course an imaginary extension of myself lol. I do not have the stuff though that lets me crit for 100 + damage at like lvl 3 or 4 like I have seen others do. Run through and take almost no damage on things like Guard Jung running elite at lvl 3. Doing hard and Elite on Irestone, with a mix party of lvl 3- 4 toons. I have not spent the time you have here. Some of you seem to feel that I am even wasting your time by posting this in the first place.

I am just wondering if anyone thinks there should be a preemptive explanation about how respecs work to solve a problem before it starts? Why tell a player there is a way to fix there mistake, and then after they set up to do it, so oh btw you did it wrong, so you can not do it now. or it will take you 2 weeks instead of 3 days. Help, not hurt.

I have the origional limited edition version of DDO. The rules clearly state there that a wizard gets there spell points fron CON, while we all know its INT I bet opening week some people who never played before were suprised when they found out a wiz having a con of 18 and int of 8 was a bad thing lol

[Necroconvict]

Nevthial thank you for the offer, I myself shall be fine I think. I play on Khyber though. It is the other new blood. I have been told as of late it is hard to get new players into the game. Something like this can cause a sour taste in a new players mouth, and cause them to leave out of anger. When it could so easily be fixed.

This problem to the 30+ year players that are DMs btw, is something that a DM could explain in the first place. Now I know you said you do not, and would not, and none of your DMs would allow such. The point is a DM would explain a system to a player. House rules are often written out and placed in your hands.

It is still a decent game otherwise! I am going to stick around at least a month or two get to higher levels and see how things are. Us non guilded low level players are often ignored in game. I try and answer questions that I know answers to, but I still do not know all the game mechanics. Take a moment, and explain things to noobs when you see them. Dropping 25k plat on them is nice, but that does not help them learn anything.

[FluffyCalico]

Nevthial thank you for the offer, I myself shall be fine I think. I play on Khyber though. It is the other new blood. I have been told as of late it is hard to get new players into the game. Something like this can cause a sour taste in a new players mouth, and cause them to leave out of anger. When it could so easily be fixed.

This problem to the 30+ year players that are DMs btw, is something that a DM could explain in the first place. Now I know you said you do not, and would not, and none of your DMs would allow such. The point is a DM would explain a system to a player. House rules are often written out and placed in your hands.

It is still a decent game otherwise! I am going to stick around at least a month or two get to higher levels and see how things are. Us non guilded low level players are often ignored in game. I try and answer questions that I know answers to, but I still do not know all the game mechanics. Take a moment, and explain things to noobs when you see them. Dropping 25k plat on them is nice, but that does not help them learn anything.

4 times this month er last month I explained to a fighter why he could not hit **** in Derlais Tomb and then went to the AH and got them something to use on them. Apparently like 99% of people he did not read the text in the quest when the guy have him the holy club thing or he would know he needed holy in there. People always complain the info isn't out there, but even when it is they don't bother to read it.

[Necroconvict]

Well you can not help those that grew up eating the wrong color snow, and paint chips. Not all noobs spend the day trying to bite their ear though.

[Rogosh]

I don't know if this was mentioned anywhere, but don't you also have to have combat expertise to take spring attack? If I'm correct in this, that would be why you don't get the option.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I don't know if this was mentioned anywhere, but don't you also have to have combat expertise to take spring attack? If I'm correct in this, that would be why you don't get the option.Nope. CE is required for Improved Combat Feats, but Spring Attack only requires Dodge and Mobility.

[Necroconvict]

So reading other forums, Fred allows you to respec into feats that you did NOT meet the requirements for at a lower level because you did not meet the Stat requirement say your Dex was not high enough, but later on you ate a tome, or just through Stat point increases, now you meet the requirement? How is that right? Certainly a GM would not allow that to those of you who would not even allow changing feats in the first place. If one is ok then so should be the other!

[FluffyCalico]

So reading other forums, Fred allows you to respec into feats that you did NOT meet the requirements for at a lower level because you did not meet the Stat requirement say your Dex was not high enough, but later on you ate a tome, or just through Stat point increases, now you meet the requirement? How is that right? Certainly a GM would not allow that to those of you who would not even allow changing feats in the first place. If one is ok then so should be the other!

Hm