More new players means more bad PUGs for a while?

[Bragnor]

For a while I haven't had any trouble with PUG's since coming back to DDO about 2 months ago but within the past couple weeks I've noticed more and more PUGs' that I'd rather shoot myself than stay in. Today was a prime example.

Group was doing Greymoon/CO6. Lvls 7-9 in the group and even in Greymoon people were dying because the group kept fighting in open areas, targetting 5-6 mobs at once instead of concentrating on one or two at a time and not using chokepoints to firewall etc. Then in CO6 it just got completely out of hand as people ran down halls aggroing every mob in the hallway and then fighting them in the open instead of pulling to a doorway where the mobs could be firewalled.

Cleric in the group went through like 4 raise dead scrolls and god knows how many wands keeping the group alive then he got sick of the group and bailed after the 2nd dungeon in the CO6 quest was done when even after asking people to work together everyone kept doing their own thing.

Has anyone else noticed this tendancy lately?

[Zenako]

It happens, from time to time. Seems to be a random event however. There are always some new people or even old players who play like they are new ones all the time.

Sounds like some of the ones that group had been babysat before. While I am not one to drop groups mid quest, I would not feel all that bad about dropping between quests if the group does not listen to reasonable requests to work together on things like Co6. If I am the cleric, I am not footing the bill for their foolishness. Scattering and everyman for himself is not tactics, just a pain in the butt. Who was the leader, ie one with the star? Should have spoken up and got things under control long before Co6 got underway. (Was actually running a duo in there last night with a friend who needed the Bat, and learned some things about the last part I never knew, like the whole schematics on the wall for which rune wheels to turn which ways. Had been so long since I needed to do it, I did not remember the settings....had to look for them. Kinda neat in a way.)

[Reisz]

Thanks for the plug. This is why I am starting Stormreach Academy. Catch'em while they are young and haven't developed bad habits. Give them some good advice/training about how to NOT be a newb and them send them off to be productive players on the server.

Over all this is a good thing. It shows that DDO is becoming successful and more people are subscribing. We need to make sure these new players are having fun so they stick around. Not yell at them because they are newbies or how everyone should know how to zerg this quest.

[Bragnor]

It happens, from time to time. Seems to be a random event however. There are always some new people or even old players who play like they are new ones all the time.

Sounds like some of the ones that group had been babysat before. While I am not one to drop groups mid quest, I would not feel all that bad about dropping between quests if the group does not listen to reasonable requests to work together on things like Co6. If I am the cleric, I am not footing the bill for their foolishness. Scattering and everyman for himself is not tactics, just a pain in the butt. Who was the leader, ie one with the star? Should have spoken up and got things under control long before Co6 got underway. (Was actually running a duo in there last night with a friend who needed the Bat, and learned some things about the last part I never knew, like the whole schematics on the wall for which rune wheels to turn which ways. Had been so long since I needed to do it, I did not remember the settings....had to look for them. Kinda neat in a way.)

I believe the Cleric originally had the star during Greymoon and did ask several times for people to please stay together and work as a team rather than running around and aggroing multiple fights at a time. It didn't stop. I felt bad for him. Didn't blame him at all when he left the group and he did wait till it was between quests, he didn't bail on us in the middle of a dungeon or anything. He left after the 2nd mission in CO6. A tank, who was also in his guild, left as well, probably just as fed up.

[Zenako]

I believe the Cleric originally had the star during Greymoon and did ask several times for people to please stay together and work as a team rather than running around and aggroing multiple fights at a time. It didn't stop. I felt bad for him. Didn't blame him at all when he left the group and he did wait till it was between quests, he didn't bail on us in the middle of a dungeon or anything. He left after the 2nd mission in CO6. A tank, who was also in his guild, left as well, probably just as fed up.

After they left I would have sent a tell to them letting them know I would be willing to drop and join them if they planned on continuing the quest. Easiest way to reform at that point. As a cleric, they should have little problems pulling a new team together for that quest series. Even just doing it from a midpoint, since the EXP is still pretty good for those levels.

[Andora]

Sounds less like new players then old players with God syndrome. When you play a 15th or 16 level for a long time when you jump on a lower level you tend to have bad habits. Most truly new players that I have run with are more then willing to listen after a death or two. Old players bow up and will play as they see fit and to heck with the rest of the party.

[Avien]

when i pug, as infrequently as possible btw, i am careful to never get in over my head. i usually have one or two buddies with me so i know at least a couple of us are solid. if i join a random pug, i make sure its for a quest that i could probably solo but might as well have a few helpers to speed it up. i almost always, however, start the pug myself. i like being the one calling the shots and having the final say in strategy. after we fill and before we start i give the guys a heads up to follow me, and listen to what i say cause i know what im doing. i seem to have pretty good luck with going about pugs that way.

[Killbilly]

This actually makes me think of some guy's bio I read last night that said something to the effect of, "Don't tell me to be a team player or behave reasonably in a quest. If you don't like how I play you should never even try to play any multiplayer game." Of course I omitted the creatively spelled profanity/lewdness he used to circumvent the language filter. That's the first time I ever blacklisted someone without even running with them.

[IgorUnchained]

Sounds less like new players then old players with God syndrome. When you play a 15th or 16 level for a long time when you jump on a lower level you tend to have bad habits. Most truly new players that I have run with are more then willing to listen after a death or two. Old players bow up and will play as they see fit and to heck with the rest of the party.

I agree with you..."noobs" dont do that in a quest like CO6. If there were noobs, and the other players are scattered to the four corners of the map, you cant expect them to rise above and do things right. That is the beauty of zergers...they screw it up for the new guys, old guys, and esp the healers.

The funny thing is that if the poster above me was the leader...and he knew the drill...he could lead a zerger party and then blame the others who "werent listening to his directions/extensive wisdom"....and you would probably go on some blacklist somewhere and called a noob anyway.


It isnt a "new" or "old" thing....it isnt that those guys were unaware of the strategies and their own deaths.....they just knew enough to not think they had to listen to anyone or worry about anyone else. That is a "zerger" thing.

[Asirin]

It's not the new players I worry about.I welcome them every chance I get (generously).Its the stupid ones that I cant stand.....Old or new.

[Varis]

why worry about it? If they die just leave them there till you come across their stone. When you gotta shrine they can come back too, otherwise they get to sit there till you finish the quest.
Make them release and run back and don't wait for them.

They either learn to run with you and at the pace of the healer or they are on their own.



That said I am a bad example as well =). If people agree to "complete the quest as fast as possible" then I go at the fastest pace possible. If the group is too slow I will go ahead and finish it. Of course I am also completely self sufficient or I would be with the cleric 24/7 :D

[cpito]

It's not the new players I worry about.I welcome them every chance I get (generously).Its the stupid ones that I cant stand.....Old or new.

Ain't that the truth :D

[Accelerando]

For a while I haven't had any trouble with PUG's since coming back to DDO about 2 months ago but within the past couple weeks I've noticed more and more PUGs' that I'd rather shoot myself than stay in. Today was a prime example.

Group was doing Greymoon/CO6. Lvls 7-9 in the group and even in Greymoon people were dying because the group kept fighting in open areas, targetting 5-6 mobs at once instead of concentrating on one or two at a time and not using chokepoints to firewall etc. Then in CO6 it just got completely out of hand as people ran down halls aggroing every mob in the hallway and then fighting them in the open instead of pulling to a doorway where the mobs could be firewalled.

Cleric in the group went through like 4 raise dead scrolls and god knows how many wands keeping the group alive then he got sick of the group and bailed after the 2nd dungeon in the CO6 quest was done when even after asking people to work together everyone kept doing their own thing.

Has anyone else noticed this tendancy lately?

If anyone is an elitest it is me... but I have to say boo to you. How can you take a 7-9 group so seriously? If you want to
zerg your way through lowbies run with your guild or some friends. Part of the joy of lowbies for me is meeting new players,
helping them out, teaching them about game mechanics and what options they have for their builds, giving them money and
gear that means less than nothing to you but makes their day, etc etc.

A great man once told me that disappointment and frustration are merely a function of the difference between expectations and
reality. The reality is NEW players are not going to be as good or as fast as EXPERIENCED players. The reality is that when you
are pugging at low levels you are more than likely to run into alot of new players or casual gamers who maybe play once or twice
a week. Live with it... or don't. It really depends on whether you want to enjoy this game or just be miserable.