Worth of Deathnips.

[Pyrothraxus]

So im in the process of slowly but surely obtaining tomes... My original goal is to duel weild nips for my barb and this was prior to crafting. My question is is it even worth getting the nips with the new craftable weapons? Or am i better off focusing on crafting weps and use whatever tomes i get and get my sorc a skivver? Kinda up in the air and some perspectiv would be great :)

[Krazed]

I guess it really depends on what you want to farm more; large ingredients or tome pages. It's a toss up for me personally, but I'm sure you can talk someone into doing a damage calculation for you. I would imagine that deathnips do more weapon DPS than anything you can get out of crafting. That being said, there's alot more to crafting than just weapon DPS. There's AC bonuses, exceptional stats, and procs.

It takes 24 large ingredients to make 1 tier 3 weapon with a bonus that'd put that weapon on par with a deathnip. Compare that with the time spent to get tome pages, and I imagine the ingredients are easier to get, but perhaps only because people run shroud more often. Personally I would go with crafted weapons, if only because running Shroud 1-4 is never as boring as farming tome pages.

[tihocan]

I'd also say it's what you prefer doing. I'd say Shroud weapons myself, because it's just more fun to run and nobody runs the Black Mausoleum anymore.
Also, I wouldn't bother to get 2 deathnips. You can do the same (or even better) damage with a good off-hand light pick.

[brshelton]

Get 2 very easy to obtain +4 Burst of PG Heavy Picks and a Bloodstone. Do more DPS for less!

[Pyrothraxus]

Get 2 very easy to obtain +4 Burst of PG Heavy Picks and a Bloodstone. Do more DPS for less!

Get 2 what? nips or Shroud weps? heh easy to obtain Bloodstone is pretty funny :) wish it was the case for me :)

Is the nips worth having even without bloodstone?

[LeLoric]

Get 2 very easy to obtain +4 Burst of PG Heavy Picks and a Bloodstone. Do more DPS for less!

you dont get more pds with these over 2 nips due to the increased crit range its not even close plus you get your trinket slot free.

Deathnips will outdmg any crafted item and also puts you into piercing specced where 2 rapiers of puncturing will be a great tool to use.

[Shade]

Shroud tier3 (triple pos or mineral being the best) weapons do beat deathnips dps. Not by much in situations ideal to the deathnip (no dr, no fortification) but by a little bit, and by a huge margin in other situations - targets with DR or Fortificaiton.

And they are much easier to obtain in the sense that shroud is run far more often. They do require 24-48 large ingredients which will take a significant amount of time to gather.. Personally i much prefer there droprate tho.. I'd take grinding out 48 ingredients at 50% each rate anyway vs 16 tomes at like 1-5% each.

Tho it's tricky because there are no heavy picks if your pierce spec.. Nor axes if your slash. So generally your left with blunt - warhammer, which work great really, even without imprve crit blunt... Especially if you go mineral which nets you transmuting impact and slicing on them. Other option is khopesh, but requires a feat which is something most barbarians dont have or can fit, but hey if you do, go for it.

[brshelton]

you dont get more pds with these over 2 nips due to the increased crit range its not even close plus you get your trinket slot free.

Deathnips will outdmg any crafted item and also puts you into piercing specced where 2 rapiers of puncturing will be a great tool to use.

they outdamage deathnips on a crit rage 2 48 str barbarian I have compared em... I also HAVE 2 deathnips

[Cold_Stele]

OK it seems your question is this -

'If you're going to craft one or more shroud items and tome items, who should get which between the Sorceror and Barb?'

The answer to that one is pretty straight forward.

The Green Steel items and weapons are pretty much universally considered as second rate for Barbs. The only exception is Khopesh which comes out pretty well (along with Deathnip) in the debate over best one handed weapon. If there's room for Khopesh in your build then MAYBE you have a problem and you need to weigh the merits of dual wielding a Green Steel Khopesh and a Deathnip. If Khopesh isn't going to make it into your build though it's a no-brainer...

Compared to Barbs, Green Steel items for Sorcs are absolutely outstanding (even better than Skiver). Someone can probably correct me but from memory you can craft an item to add +300 SP and +3 stackable bonus to UMD, or a sceptre to add +9 CHA (I think some Sorcs now are running around with CHA of 38 or so...).

So there's your answer -

Give your ingredients to your Sorc and your tome pages to your Barb.

[LeLoric]

Shroud tier3 (triple pos or mineral being the best) weapons do beat deathnips dps. Not by much in situations ideal to the deathnip (no dr, no fortification) but by a little bit, and by a huge margin in other situations - targets with DR or Fortificaiton.

And they are much easier to obtain in the sense that shroud is run far more often. They do require 24-48 large ingredients which will take a significant amount of time to gather.. Personally i much prefer there droprate tho.. I'd take grinding out 48 ingredients at 50% each rate anyway vs 16 tomes at like 1-5% each.

Tho it's tricky because there are no heavy picks if your pierce spec.. Nor axes if your slash. So generally your left with blunt - warhammer, which work great really, even without imprve crit blunt... Especially if you go mineral which nets you transmuting impact and slicing on them. Other option is khopesh, but requires a feat which is something most barbarians dont have or can fit, but hey if you do, go for it.


Numbers have not been put out to show that they beat deathnip anywhere id have to see them. There are also situations where mineral weapons arent optimal too (acid resist non evil) Of course most mobs that have bypassable dr right now are outsiders and constructs. Ill use dual banishing or smiting rapiers there. As far as the pit fiend neither are really optimal there I use a trans heavy pick of maiming and a holy silver geo bane rapier on him.

[Shade]

Someone can probably correct me but from memory you can craft an item to add +300 SP and +3 stackable bonus to UMD, or a sceptre to add +9 CHA (I think some Sorcs now are running around with CHA of 38 or so...).


600 sp (for sorcerer) and 6 umd.

Yea shroud accesory stuff rocks for sorcerers. I find getting the stuff for both barb and sorcerer wasn't too much trouble hehe.

I dunno how it is even a fair comparison really, I mean its just so much easier imo to get large ingred vs tome pieces..
I mean to date I have gotten over 90 arge ingredients vs 4 tome pieces - and I had to trade for 2 of the tome pieces and only a couple of the large ingrd. And it wasn't so much of a lack of effort on the black mausoleum either, I mean i ransacked that dungeon 6+ times and flagged 3 characters for abbot, it just sucks for droprate.

[Shade]

Numbers have not been put out to show that they beat deathnip anywhere id have to see them.
Here. (http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/ddo/analyze.php?1label=Deathnips&1bab=16&1atktype=dw&1spm=90&1phd=1d6%2B5&1phed=0&1phth=5&1phthreat=15%2Fx4&1phxcrit=3d6%2B32&1ohd=1d6%2B5&1ohed=0&1ohth=5&1ohthreat=15%2Fx4&1ohxcrit=3d6%2B32&1str=40&1dex=10&12wpn=on&1imp2wpn=on&1gtr2wpn=on&1pwr=on&1sneakpct=0&1sneakd=0&1cleavepct=0&2label=Mineral+Warhammers&2bab=16&2atktype=dw&2spm=90&2phd=1d10%2B5&2phed=3d6%2B1d4&2phth=%2B5&2phthreat=17x3&2phxcrit=18%2B2d10%2B2d10&2ohd=1d10%2B5&2ohed=3d6%2B1d4&2ohth=%2B5&2ohthreat=17x3&2ohxcrit=18%2B2d10%2B2d10&2str=40&2dex=10&22wpn=on&2imp2wpn=on&2gtr2wpn=on&2pwr=on&2sneakpct=0&2sneakd=0&2cleavepct=0&report=on&minac=10&maxac=50)

Thats dual deathnips vs dual mineral warhammers.
lvl16 barb, 40 str, bloodstone equipped.

Also the tool doesn't have a way to add the +4d6 on a natural 20 which would bring the hammers even further ahead.

And thats hammers, khopesh would obviously be even higher ahead.

In terms of what monsters each would work vs ? well gota be pretty much out of your mind to not think the transmuting will win that arguement.

Yea neither are the best weapon for every situation in the game, that would be a bit too overpowered, but one is clearly better then the other overall.

[LeLoric]

Thanks for posting that so barely better when using a third item (bloodstone), I prefer my kardins eye as I have no room for a resistance item. Yeah khopesh is nice but at what expense there just isnt the feats available in my barb build. I generally run at slightly higher strength not sure what the numbers would be there.

[Snoggy]

you dont get more pds with these over 2 nips

What is this pds you speak of elf?

[Pyrothraxus]

I will be speced fo Khopesh. I like the wep (Khopesh) too much not to make room in my build. I was however planning on getting both improved crit slash and crit down the line. overall from the replies posted so far it sounds like time/effort wise as well as dmg potential in most situations fall in favor of the khopesh.

[LeLoric]

How are you going to fit all the twf feats in there with khopesh and 2 imp crits? not having those youve just lost all your dps you gain.

[Pyrothraxus]

2 lvls of Fighter for the 2 extra feats.

[LeLoric]

While that seems nice now youll hate yourself at 20 with no mighty rage

[CrimsonEagle]

If someone has some time, I could use some info on Deathnips, such as where to get them and what do they do.

Thanks in advance.

[Hanam]

Mighty rage is 2 str and 2 con not something to cry over unless they add more rage enhancements

[Krazed]

Mighty rage is 2 str and 2 con not something to cry over unless they add more rage enhancements

Which they likely will, or should, considering there is no downside to taking 2 levels of fighter with 14 barbarian levels, right now.

Between Barb and Sorc, I would agree that it is better to start with Sorc items than Barb. However, Skiver is still useful, since greensteel upgrades only give you 150 SP from Wiz 6, whereas Skiver gives you 200.

[Illuminati]

Mighty rage is 2 str and 2 con not something to cry over unless they add more rage enhancements

Agreed. I'll take 18 levels of metagame any day over +1 Attack/Dmg. 2 Fighter levels are phonemonal.

[Pyrothraxus]

heh i just rerolled my Barb to a 32 point build.... knowing what stats to focus on now + knowing which feats to focus on really makes a big diff. My first Barb was twf with a base of 13 dex (first char.... didnt know what i was doing heh) and did not have Power attack so needless to say.... he was lacking ^^; I posted my build and general char progression plans so I would appriciate some input. Ive had some some people say take Fighter at a higher lvl not lower which i dont understand....

[Shaamis]

I am in the process of making a 14/2 barb/ftr dual khopesher myself.

I plan on taking ftr at lvl 2, for and extra feat early, and level 8 for imp crit/slashing.

I plan on finding a dagger/ss/rapier of keen and punturing (already have one) in case I want to do puncture damage.

we'll see.....

[Illuminati]

Hope you have better luck with w/p than I did. Sure it killed fast, but it looks pretty stupid on my barb.

[Pyrothraxus]

heh yeah... rapiers does not look as good on a barb as a Khopesh Or Daxe or just even a regular sword imo..... but hey i works... I dont see much talk about W/P Heavy Picks. Any specific reason?

[Kawiki]

heh yeah... rapiers does not look as good on a barb as a Khopesh Or Daxe or just even a regular sword imo..... but hey i works... I dont see much talk about W/P Heavy Picks. Any specific reason?

The crit range on on a pick is much smaller (20 v. 18-20). So, on a barb the puncture effect will go off on a pick on a roll of 17-20 compared to a rapier on a 13 or better.

[Kawiki]

I am in the process of making a 14/2 barb/ftr dual khopesher myself.

I plan on taking ftr at lvl 2, for and extra feat early, and level 8 for imp crit/slashing.

I plan on finding a dagger/ss/rapier of keen and punturing (already have one) in case I want to do puncture damage.

we'll see.....


I did something similar but I took my 2nd Fighter level at 11 to get GTWF as early as possible. All preference really. I did not go Improved Crit pierce either as the Deathnips and WofP weapons are just to much of a PITA to get unless you happen to get lucky.

[Spisey]

So in short. Do both! :D Get one deathnip and one mineral II warhammer and you're gravy.....



......and keeps you from getting too bored farming out either ingredients or tome pages.