How much is "Not Enough" tumble?

[Ninety]

So I was thinking, Wow I got my rogue flagged for reaver, he's got a good tumble, so I shouldn't take much damage falling up and down.

with GH and tumble that was passed to everyone, I was at 52 tumble, with the charge... 82 tumble.


Guess what? I still took damage falling up and down in reaver.

so my question, how much tumble would be needed to not take damage?

[Altarboy]

So I was thinking, Wow I got my rogue flagged for reaver, he's got a good tumble, so I shouldn't take much damage falling up and down.

with GH and tumble that was passed to everyone, I was at 52 tumble, with the charge... 82 tumble.



Guess what? I still took damage falling up and down in reaver.

so my question, how much tumble would be needed to not take damage?
More

[Oreg]

More

At least that....

[rpasell]

I would guess (probably incorrectly) that tumble, much like jump, has a "soft cap". Where once you get over a certain number adding more has no effect on the skill.

[frederjoe1]

You can always try a little wall walking, it works for my pitiful no tumble cleric...

[JFeenstra]

I would guess (probably incorrectly) that tumble, much like jump, has a "soft cap". Where once you get over a certain number adding more has no effect on the skill.

you're correct...i think it's 45 that it caps at, although i could be incorrect on the number

[Petro]

padded armor?

[rpasell]

padded armor?

hehe

:)

[KristovK]

Did you actively use the Tumble skill as you were falling? It's not a passive skill after all, if you don't use it, it has no effect on mitigating falling damage. My Wizard has maybe a 20 Tumble with the spell going and takes little if any damage from falling in Reaver provided I remember to actively Tumble. My Fighter is the same way, as long as I remember to actively Tumble, little if any damage on falling.

[JFeenstra]

Did you actively use the Tumble skill as you were falling? It's not a passive skill after all, if you don't use it, it has no effect on mitigating falling damage. My Wizard has maybe a 20 Tumble with the spell going and takes little if any damage from falling in Reaver provided I remember to actively Tumble. My Fighter is the same way, as long as I remember to actively Tumble, little if any damage on falling.

tumble vs fall damage is passive

[Ninety]

Did you actively use the Tumble skill as you were falling? It's not a passive skill after all, if you don't use it, it has no effect on mitigating falling damage. My Wizard has maybe a 20 Tumble with the spell going and takes little if any damage from falling in Reaver provided I remember to actively Tumble. My Fighter is the same way, as long as I remember to actively Tumble, little if any damage on falling.


are you use you just aren't in a corner walking down the wall?
because tumble is passive when falling.

[Ninety]

you're correct...i think it's 45 that it caps at, although i could be incorrect on the number


I was wondering about that... didn't know if it went that high. I noticed the animation was the same speed on 52 as it was on 82.

[KristovK]

are you use you just aren't in a corner walking down the wall?
because tumble is passive when falling.

I've been told that by other players before but my own personal experience is..it's not passive, if I'm NOT using the Tumble actively when I fall in Reaver, I take a good bit of damage, unless I'm wall walking..even then sometimes. If I actively use my Tumble, little if any damage regardless of my location when I fall.

I'll take practical experience over supposed design anytime.

[Coldin]

Did you actively use the Tumble skill as you were falling? It's not a passive skill after all, if you don't use it, it has no effect on mitigating falling damage. My Wizard has maybe a 20 Tumble with the spell going and takes little if any damage from falling in Reaver provided I remember to actively Tumble. My Fighter is the same way, as long as I remember to actively Tumble, little if any damage on falling.

It's passive. No active tumbling required. This is a fact, and proven by experience.

As for the cap, there are no animation changes (at least not up to 75) past 36. But I'm not too sure if the skill caps or not to mitigate falling damage. Plus, I'm fairly certain that in the Reaver raid, falling deals way more damage than it normally does. Go try jumping off the terrace in Meridia sometime and see how much damage you take. I'm sure that it will be much less than in the Reaver.

Anyway, tumble past 40 is pretty pointless anyway. Reaver is the only place where avoiding falling damage through tumble is desired, and everywhere else you can simply use a Featherfall item. Don't invest a whole lot into it unless you really enjoying showing off. :)

[GeneralDiomedes]

I've been told that by other players before but my own personal experience is..it's not passive, if I'm NOT using the Tumble actively when I fall in Reaver, I take a good bit of damage, unless I'm wall walking..even then sometimes. If I actively use my Tumble, little if any damage regardless of my location when I fall.

I'll take practical experience over supposed design anytime.

I suppose it's possible that Tumble works differently within the Reaver quest than it does everywhere else, or that Tumbling pushes you past the 'soft' cap.

But Tumble is a passive ability. It's very easy to prove, too. Just jump off a building and check your damage tumbling vs. not tumbling.

[rpasell]

Reaver is the only place where avoiding falling damage through tumble is desired, and everywhere else you can simply use a Featherfall item. Don't invest a whole lot into it unless you really enjoying showing off. :)


I like having a high tumble on some characters specifically because it makes featherfall less of a requirement.

[KristovK]

I suppose it's possible that Tumble works differently within the Reaver quest than it does everywhere else, or that Tumbling pushes you past the 'soft' cap.

But Tumble is a passive ability. It's very easy to prove, too. Just jump off a building and check your damage tumbling vs. not tumbling.

I know how it's supposed to work, but inside Reaver the standard rules aren't applicable as we all know. If I don't actively use Tumble, I hit hard and take a lot of damage. If I actively use it, little to no damage.

My Fighter once got a charge from the Reaver that put my Tumble high enough he was doing front/back/side flips in full plate and a tower shield. Fell and took a heavy hit of damage because I didn't bother actively use Tumble, figuring if it was THAT high, falling shouldn't be a problem right? Wrong. I've learned to simply use Tumble actively and I avoid the damage in Reaver..it works, that's all the proof I need.

[Black_Flamingo]

Out of curiosity, how does one use tumble actively while falling, since it's a passive skill that can't be set into a hotbar?

[Coldin]

Out of curiosity, how does one use tumble actively while falling, since it's a passive skill that can't be set into a hotbar?

Shield-block + movement keys = tumbling. I'm assuming that KristovK is saying that he's tumbling just before he goes flying in the air, or falling off a cliff.

[Black_Flamingo]

Ah, I see. Though that would require some fine timing to tumble just before/after the reverse gravity.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

You should take very little damage if you run back to the wall when the antigravity is coming...

...or you could be out in no-mans land, like most PuG's *sigh*

[Boulderun]

Tumble of 90 eliminates the falling damage in both directions, assuming the normal ceiling level in the sanctum (you may take damage if you go up into the "runners" above the puzzle door for instance).

My rogue swaps useless FF boots for Tumble +15 boots in there to hit 90.

[KristovK]

Black Flamingo, doesn't take much timing at all, as soon as I hit the ceiling, I start actively tumbling to the nearest wall and keep tumbling until I'm on the floor again. I go to the nearest wall because that's the safest place to be on the ceiling, nasty spikes and whatnot being up there in other places and all :) I don't use it when outside of Reaver because Featherfall works, never tested if Tumble helps or not in those situations outside of the Low Road, about the only place I ever have to take a fall without having FF.

Damage going UP in Reavers is just a given, even when my Fighter had that charge and was doing flips, hitting the ceiling hurt and I WAS actively tumbling at the time..I wasn't sure what had happened to my Fighter, thought I was bugged or something, this was back when GH and the Reaver were still new.

[jjflanigan]

Tumble doesn't apply in Reaver raid because you aren't falling. It's reverse gravity, then you get slammed into the ground. This is also why featherfalling doesn't help. No matter how high your tumble skill is, it will not affect your getting slammed into the ground damage in the Reaver.

*edit*

Just read Boulderrun's post -- apparently I was wrong if that's a true statement (never seen anyone in there with a tumble of 90 to test it personally).

[GwenJynx]

The way I understand it is falling damage is calculated based on the distance you've fallen minus capping at around 100 and then minus your tumble skill. So a tumble of 100 would in theory stop all falling damage.

This can be tested by having a wizard teleport repeatedly until they get an Ooops and fall into the market place and recording the damage. Then repeating the test with either a tumble item on or the tumble spell cast and compairing the two numbers.

The effect can be seen pretty easily in the reaver, a cleric with no tumble falling straight up and down without hitting the wall will take 80-90 damage, where a charged rogue with a 70-80 tumble will take 10-20 damage.

[Angelus_dead]

Just read Boulderrun's post -- apparently I was wrong if that's a true statement (never seen anyone in there with a tumble of 90 to test it personally).
Yes, you are wrong. The Reaver's Fate is the only place where wizards/rangers have a real use for preparing the Tumble spell. For a while that was widespread standard operating procedure, although by now maybe people have just decided to soak the damage.

[suitepotato]

If you've run at least one toon for a year and reached level cap along the way and played at least three times a week, you should already have sold as vendor junk a number of feather fall boots.

If you run STK normal/hard/elite you have a very good chance of getting the Ring of Feathers. Lots of people skip it and do TR.

Tumble? I'm not sure I've seen anyone falling at all for the last year who were not wearing feather fall who did not immediately call it out right after and laugh how they forgot their ff item.

[captain1z]

If you've run at least one toon for a year and reached level cap along the way and played at least three times a week, you should already have sold as vendor junk a number of feather fall boots.

If you run STK normal/hard/elite you have a very good chance of getting the Ring of Feathers. Lots of people skip it and do TR.

Tumble? I'm not sure I've seen anyone falling at all for the last year who were not wearing feather fall who did not immediately call it out right after and laugh how they forgot their ff item.

Tumble as you well no reduces the damage you take from falling. Feather fall makes it so you take no damage from falling. The storm reavers reverse gravity ability ignores FF items but still allows the reduction given by tumble. Tumble and swimming are worth investing in after youve spent all the points you can on the things you want, if you still have points left over and nothing to do with them.

All my reaver ready or soon to be ready characters have +13 tumble boots that I can swap out when running the reaver.

When I roll my monk I dont plan on using a FF item ever (slow fall monk ability + tumble)

[Ninety]

Tumble doesn't apply in Reaver raid because you aren't falling. It's reverse gravity, then you get slammed into the ground. This is also why featherfalling doesn't help. No matter how high your tumble skill is, it will not affect your getting slammed into the ground damage in the Reaver.

*edit*

Just read Boulderrun's post -- apparently I was wrong if that's a true statement (never seen anyone in there with a tumble of 90 to test it personally).

at 82 tumble, I was taking 7 points of damage either way.

I can see 90 being the golden spot.

[Elaril]

at 82 tumble, I was taking 7 points of damage either way.

I can see 90 being the golden spot.


You're just saying that because it's your name. I'll bet it's 91.

[Boulderun]

Actually, I think it is 89, which matches his math. I tested it a while back when I realized I could get a crazy tumble value, but the constant shroud repetition has driven every other bit of DDO out of memory.

The floor-to-ceiling distance (again, assuming the ceiling level for most of the surface area) is 89 points of damage with a tumble of zero. Having a lower or higher tumble than zero will increase or decrease the damage on a 1:1 basis. There will be some variation based on proximity to a wall or pillar, hitting some of the ceiling geometry, having started your fall mid-jump, and solar flares.

This is all passive, of course. Being in a tumble animation is irrelevant. You can hit a skill boost for a few extra points though.

[captain1z]

Black Flamingo, doesn't take much timing at all, as soon as I hit the ceiling, I start actively tumbling to the nearest wall and keep tumbling until I'm on the floor again. I go to the nearest wall because that's the safest place to be on the ceiling, nasty spikes and whatnot being up there in other places and all :) I don't use it when outside of Reaver because Featherfall works, never tested if Tumble helps or not in those situations outside of the Low Road, about the only place I ever have to take a fall without having FF.

Damage going UP in Reavers is just a given, even when my Fighter had that charge and was doing flips, hitting the ceiling hurt and I WAS actively tumbling at the time..I wasn't sure what had happened to my Fighter, thought I was bugged or something, this was back when GH and the Reaver were still new.

Its not neccessary to actively tumble while falling or in reaver. Check your combat logs, it one thing to try it and say "I think I took less damage" because you actually might take less damage simply depending on where you are standing.

out in the open with a higher ceiling = more damage

lower ceiling or falling while pushing against the curved part of the wall or a pillar = far less damage (sometimes none)

The only thing actively tumbling does is give u an AC boost..... it has no effect on your falling damage.

your combat log can easily prove this ....... but few people look at the logs in real time by the time you check in a reaver raid the info your looking for is long since scrolled out of veiw and is not recoverable.


Unless your like me playing a fighter with nothing to do in the raid but gather data on what saves your making, how much damage your actually doing/taking and why......... ways to reduce/increase these numbers.


People doing this is the reason why tumble is cast at the start of a reaver raid ....... if active control helped entire raid parties would be doing it by now.


just an illusion .......... like when I thought remove fear actually gave you immunity to fear...apparently it doesnt.

[KristovK]

Its not neccessary to actively tumble while falling or in reaver. Check your combat logs, it one thing to try it and say "I think I took less damage" because you actually might take less damage simply depending on where you are standing.

out in the open with a higher ceiling = more damage

lower ceiling or falling while pushing against the curved part of the wall or a pillar = far less damage (sometimes none)

The only thing actively tumbling does is give u an AC boost..... it has no effect on your falling damage.

your combat log can easily prove this ....... but few people look at the logs in real time by the time you check in a reaver raid the info your looking for is long since scrolled out of veiw and is not recoverable.


Unless your like me playing a fighter with nothing to do in the raid but gather data on what saves your making, how much damage your actually doing/taking and why......... ways to reduce/increase these numbers.


People doing this is the reason why tumble is cast at the start of a reaver raid ....... if active control helped entire raid parties would be doing it by now.


just an illusion .......... like when I thought remove fear actually gave you immunity to fear...apparently it doesnt.

Tumbling in and of itself does nothing for your AC, it requires the Mobility feat in order to get an AC bonus while Tumbling. And casting Tumble on people is totally pointless if they have less then 1 rank invested in the skill.

I don't 'think' I take less damage either, I DO take less damage, it's rather obvious when I take a hit of 80+ and when I don't. Many Reaver runs have shown me the same thing over and over, just let myself drop, it hurts, actively tumble, little to no damage regardless of location when I fall. Tumble is cast at the start of the Reaver because we figured out how to mitigate the fall damage shortly after it was added and we were getting rather PO'd over the whole anti-grav bit. Course, this was before they fixed the tips to show that Tumble helped with falling damage instead of Jump, and many people didn't realize which one actually worked in that situation.

[Ninety]

yeah I tried the whole actively tumble while on my pali (+5 mfp and tower shield) and it did nothing. still took the same damage as usual on that character (about 11 tumble with the spell on)

[KristovK]

yeah I tried the whole actively tumble while on my pali (+5 mfp and tower shield) and it did nothing. still took the same damage as usual on that character (about 11 tumble with the spell on)

Not enough Tumble to mitigate much damage is the problem. My Wiz and Fighter both have 9 ranks of Tumble plus bonuses from high dex and items, hitting the 20s before the spell is cast. Fighter has a much higher dex then my Wiz and uses mithril fp along with fighter feats to get around the armor caps, he's also got Mobility and Spring Attack(cause once upon a time they worked and I'm not willing to change them out in the hopes they once again work!). Like I said, my Fighter got a charge from the Reaver and was doing the whole flips in every direction bit from his tumble being so high, really funny looking with a tower shield and full plate :)

[Ninety]

Not enough Tumble to mitigate much damage is the problem. My Wiz and Fighter both have 9 ranks of Tumble plus bonuses from high dex and items, hitting the 20s before the spell is cast. Fighter has a much higher dex then my Wiz and uses mithril fp along with fighter feats to get around the armor caps, he's also got Mobility and Spring Attack(cause once upon a time they worked and I'm not willing to change them out in the hopes they once again work!). Like I said, my Fighter got a charge from the Reaver and was doing the whole flips in every direction bit from his tumble being so high, really funny looking with a tower shield and full plate :)

okay I'm in reaver RIGHT NOW on my fighter... 50 tumble with the charge.

I'm taking 39 damage while actively tumbling or not actively tumbling.

I'm tried 2 times today and both times disproved your theory.
a dozen other people on the forums also say the same thing.

[Kromize]

I was wondering about that... didn't know if it went that high. I noticed the animation was the same speed on 52 as it was on 82.

If only they took the caps off of jump and tumble. My fighter would be "The One" hahaha

[Shade]

Tumble of 90 eliminates the falling damage in both directions, assuming the normal ceiling level in the sanctum (you may take damage if you go up into the "runners" above the puzzle door for instance).

My rogue swaps useless FF boots for Tumble +15 boots in there to hit 90.

Nice. I remember before reaver existed my rogue was at around 55-60 tumble and would never take fall damage anywhere in the game. But yea that has a higher dmg scale and thus higher tumble requirement, so it makes sense. Tho 60 + 30 reaver charge = the 90 required anyways.

Heh I think its quite possible for a rogue to hit 100 tumble now considering that, if skills go to triple digits.

er actually reaver charge is +40 tumble isn't it? or maybe it doesn't stack with the +10 spell, so +30 total.

[Boulderun]

90 is with the buff, of course.

Charged tumble seems to be an enhancement bonus, stacks with tumble items but not the spell.

Off the top of my head, I think max tumble is around 103 now. Max dex elf rogue, +6 dex skills shroud item, +9 dex shroud weapon, skill focus tumble, etc.

edit: on second thought, it's much higher with way of the acrobat. I don't know the numbers for that garbage though.