Why not help your local noob?

[xynxie]

/rant on

This is a state of mind from a new player perspective.....please read the entire thread before flaming....trying to let you folks that have been around awhile at least think about what you MAY have forgotten.

Been playing this game for 4 months now and just got my 32 pt favor.....that was work....that was a grind and to be perfectly honest.....I hated it....tis why it took 4 months.....1750 favor seemed unattainable....literally thought of quitting the game many times....but I have 2 brothers that play and they kept urginging me to quit making other toons and fous on 1 and get her up ( I am 43....so when I say bros...we ain't spring chickens or impatient youth)

But as we play at different times it made me play either solo, which I enjoy, or in pugs...which are fun except when your new and start getting yelled at by idiots that seem to think they married you so they have the right to yell at you when they don't tell ya want then and failed to read thier mind....I give one warning...tell them read my bio....in which I state I am new and if you want to cuss me you best marry me....other than that I will recall and drop....only exception is I will take it for 10K Plat...so pay me if you want to yell at me.

Now let me say up front......I have played with some good folks on Sarlona...that are vets....and when they invited me into thier group I let them know I was new....so we could either crawl and let me know whats going on.....or we could zerg leaving me in the dust and they could pick up my stone and run with me.....thier call...always upfront when I have little to no clue on a quest....but these were rare....folks just dinging me cause they wanted a meat shield....but it was cool to.

However....trying to join a PUG was downright embarrassing and a little bit annoying after level 5. I would ding to join(no notes saying experienced only or such)....I would be added then I would let them know I am new to the quest and bing....out came the excuses...a guildie just logged on, gotta make room (remember..I was new) or worse yet I would find myself dismissed.....that, my friends, will make you hate a game more than anything. now it may have been a matter of bad luck....but I had a 2 week span that it happened to me darn near everytime I jumped in a PUG. So I would make a new toon...thinking its gotta be my build they don't need or whatnot.....had my cleric Tredius for a bit...and they would take him everytime...but being new and broke once I got to that level and couldn't afford wands he became unpopular (Got dropped on a Deleras quest cause I didn't have more wands after the first 2 quest...they were zergers...told them I was on mana only for the last quest cause I was out of wands and broke.....no tells, no nothing ....we were all in house J getting stuff up and next thing I know....I was dismissed....It was a bigger guild...I make a habit of not playing with them period.

Now...if you read all that and came away thinking bawhaa what a whiner....fine....your an elitest and part of the problem I am addressing. You can read on if you like but in all likelihood it is a waste of your time. If it made you think...hmmmm what is he getting at...then please read on.

Alot of you folks have played for quite a long time....and understand the concept and mechanics in the game.....you have run the lower quest many a time as I understand XP and favor were alot harder back in the day to accumulate due to content then vs content now.....however...when you set up an LFM or invite someone that is new to the game into a group....remember, the game is still new to that person....it is still fun for that person at lower levels as he hasnt run it 30 times. It now up to you to make that quest an experience that he can enjoy, thus become a long term player(maybe even join your guild except for the one I didn't name arlier though I do trash in all quest I am on)...if you don't want that type of responsibility...then make it clear from the outset...noobs need not apply.....zergers only.

What made me make this post? Well...like I said earlier...I finally made 32 favor....and I rolled me a new toon named Theodur....I joined a pug running the Leaky Dinghy quest....they let a wizard join....we all headed for durks and the guy says he just started the game on the 10 day trial a few days ago and.....that was all I got to hear as the star dropped him and started talking about not babysitting a squishy.....as he wasnt tagged any guild I have no idea who he plays with....but I know one thing....he ain't playing with me....I dropped grouped and invited ole boy and ran around crawling....I never run a wiz...but I told him what not to do and to read forums and stuff....thing is...the guy was embarrassed for being new...he asked if maybe he shouldnt tell folks.....and it brought all these unpleasant feelings I have had when like things have happened to me...though I did tell him a wiz isn't how I would start my DDO adventure.

At any rate....I made a friend that I hope stays with the game and got to have "fun" on lowbie quest, even though I have done everything under lvl 5 50 times it seems.

My personal opinion....if its work it ain't fun. Leveling up a new toon is work....even twinked...because its boring....I believe finding noobs and helping them through makes it fun....as you can experience the newness in observation mode....let them hit a trap if thier a rogue....send em scouting....let em ask what this my senses are....you get the picture. I let the wiz draw agro cause he kept running ahead of me wanting to burn stuff....i explained the concept of lower level CC and let the meat block the door for burning hands.

Ah well

/rant off

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Good lord that was long...

Never, ever, ever saw someone come to one of my PuGs and say "Hey guys, I dont know this quest, Im new" only to be dropped
or excused from the party.

Never once. I PuG A LOT.

Every time someone says something to that effect the answers are usually "No problem man" "No biggie".

The reason you wouldn't get dropped? Because have two experienced players in just about any quest in this game
is generally more than enough.

[Rkik_Dnec]

Sorry to hear that you ran into a lot of bad apples.

I may not be new to the game (played for about 6 months a year ago, and just re-started playing again a month ago), but there is a lot of upper level content that I have never done, as my highest character is level 10. I PUG almost exclusively and I always let them know if I haven't run the quest before. I've never had them drop me.

Now I have dropped out myself if the group seems to be going badly or just generally being obnoxious.

I will agree that I love helping newbies out and going slowly through quests with people. All too often people are in a hurry to get to the next quest, and you don't get to really appreciate the place. Especially as a cleric where I spend much of my time just making sure that everyone is still alive.

[Mindspat]

It can be hit-or-miss in online societies. I suspect that the time of your game play has a lot to do with the negatives experiances of other players for I only rarely encounter the expressed behavior during the days and never during the evenings.

All do respect, I really can't comment too acurately on this since I only play a single character (lvl 16 sorc) and only recently began playing around with a gimped-to-hell rogue/fighter/ranger repeater build. I've always made it quite clear that the low level character is gimped and needs a reroll but that I continue playing it 'cs it's so damned fun. ;)

I am curious, why did you feel obligated to "grind" out the favor? I paid no attention to it and only worked on it when other guildies felt like pounding out a quest or two. I believe I reached 1750 around 5-7 months after returning a year after the game had launched.

P.S. even as a senior player I do not know but a fraction of the quests and constantly tell everyone "I'm a noob!" It seems to slow them down a bit, unless they know I'm pulling their legs. :D

[xynxie]

It can be hit-or-miss in online societies. I suspect that the time of your game play has a lot to do with the negatives experiances of other players for I only rarely encounter the expressed behavior during the days and never during the evenings.

All do respect, I really can't comment too acurately on this since I only play a single character (lvl 16 sorc) and only recently began playing around with a gimped-to-hell rogue/fighter/ranger repeater build. I've always made it quite clear that the low level character is gimped and needs a reroll but that I continue playing it 'cs it's so damned fun. ;)

I am curious, why did you feel obligated to "grind" out the favor? I paid no attention to it and only worked on it when other guildies felt like pounding out a quest or two. I believe I reached 1750 around 5-7 months after returning a year after the game had launched.

P.S. even as a senior player I do not know but a fraction of the quests and constantly tell everyone "I'm a noob!" It seems to slow them down a bit, unless they know I'm pulling their legs. :D

The time in question where bad things happened to me I was ubernoob.....first month.....xmas just over, new mod comin out maybe it was just a bad time of playing.

Asfor the 32 build ...that was cause that was what everyone kept telling me mattred...they would say yur gimped cause blah blah.....as I have never played a game like this I believed it.....then the last couple weeks, my bros and I just powered her through just so they wouldn't nag me any more

My first build is akin to your gimped buil except its TWF

BUT i figure 32 takes away the excuse of...oh i would be better if it was a 32 build.....cause my builds are still lame....and surprisingly...the soulstone looks the same:)

[Dracolich]

Yeah if I was in a group and the leader dismissed somone because they admitted to being new and inexperience I would leave the group and promptly report the leader for griefing. We all were new at one time and I still am experiencing things for the first time since launch. Luckily I have been in good groups when I notify them via tells before joining that its my first time ever. Sometimes after I get invited I inform them and ask if they can just tell me what not to do and things will be just fine.

Bottom line is that type of behavior is inexcusable and ignorant. Sadly though its prevelant in all MMos. The higher level people forget that they werent born with the devine knowlege that they too had to learn it.

[GreyRogue]

Personally, I really like running with newbies. Their reactions to all of the cool stuff in the game that they may not have seen before brings back nice memories for me. So I try to help newer players out when I find out that they are new. I doubt that most people actively like grouping with inexperienced players, but most of the PUGs I've been in don't seem to mind. By and large, DDO seems to have a really nice player base. My point is that you shouldn't let a really horrible streak of bad luck with groups sour you on the game or on experienced players. What you describe is not likely to always be your experience in PUGs. I wish you better luck in your future adventures! :)

[Reisz]

Understand that the DDO world is a lot bigger than personal experiences. There are people out there would want to help. I think you may have gotten unlucky. Take the good and bad, but focus on the good.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=141400

[Oreg]

[eaten by cube] I think that your point is a very valid one. 1) People who want to zerg should make it clear in lfm's that they want experienced people and 2) we should all set aside a little of our time to help newer players.
[eaten by cube]

[roadkill525]

I'm a new player and I've never had anyone kick me out for telling em I'm new. I've been in games that do so I tent to send a tell before I going groups letting people know I'm new. and only once did it end up with someone saying the spot had just been filled, but that verywell could be the truth.

at level 3 or 4, on my first rogue, no items really(this was a trial account I opened for the weekend to try afor I reactivated mine) a group decided to take me into STK on elite as main rogue, I've never been in stk, they ask what my skills are and say I should do fine. we take it slow and get to the part with the traps... they tell me where the traps are and what I gotta do and I can't find the trap... they buff me a bit and I still can';t find the trap. the relize what kinda boat we in and they start handing me +3 spot +3 search +3 disable +3 open lock items. was kinda suprised how much they were carrying around. equip up and I find the box... and I rolled high and disabled the trap thank god. we move on and get to the fire trap. they tell me I gotta run thru and disable the trap... tell me they will help direct me to the trap once I get thru. they buff me up and I run in. first jet of fire and I'm dead and laughing at how much dammage I took.

figured sence I died and some of the advice they gave me... I recalled and hit the trainer, redid my enhancements some and whent back in, this time I got skill boost. catch back up to them... they buff me and I go runnign thru trying to jump the fire, see save scrolling above my head... then the very last fire jet I'm hit and down and I'm laughing again. at this time the gorup decides I'm not gonna be able to pull it off and they all run in. everyone buy 2 people die. they fight they way to the shrine and we start trying to make runs to the shrine. after a few trys I make it and then get bufffed and go disable the traps.

that run was the most fun I've ever had in this game. I even got the ring of feathers fro mthe chest. and its the reason I still play a rogue. when I send the tells to people on my new rogue I tell them I'm new and I'm not that good of a rogue. like I said I was only once not invited to a group and no one ever seamed displeased with my work.

[Horrorscope]

If true, I am glad I didn't pick the server you did. But I can see situations like this, my wife for example, she just isn't ready to go out and join in a PUG herself, just not in her makeup and doesn't feel comfortable enough in this system yet, she likes her ranger/rouge because she can hover in the back more often, which suites her fine. IMO there is being new to a quest and still learning DDO -and- being new to a quest but really understand the game. If you think you are the later, then I wouldn't even tell anyone if you are new or not and just roll with it, just don't lead. If you are the former new and slow to pick up a quest, then probably be best to find a guild that works within that.

How I've played, I have a little group we do the new quests to us on normal, we all stay on the same level and level together when everyone can. The good is that we get to experience the new stuff together at a normal pace and learn it, great! The other good is the stuff behind us we can PUG and run those quests whatever speed the team wants, because we know them and then we try them on harder difficulties. This game has many faces and can be great in a slow or brisk environment, two totally different feelings.

[KristovK]

I have this little problem...altitis. I constantly remake characters and run them through the Harbor and on, usually getting to 8th to 10th level before I delete em and remake em. I do this for 2 reasons...

1) I like to play with build ideas.

2) I like to help new people learn the game.

As soon as someone tells me 'I'm new' I immediately tell the party that so and so is new, so we're going to go slow and take our time and show em the ropes. If people don't like that, they are free to leave the party. If they voice no opinion and instead start zerging through the quest, they'll be booted as soon as we exit the quest and I'll apologize to the new person.

I'll take time to show them around the quests, help them learn the classes and abilities and answer any questions that I can, if I can't I refer them here.

I find it fun...but I'm weird that way, I get a kick out of helping people.

[xynxie]

though you proved me correct....although painful....I obviously communicated my points in a way that you got them....again....I can only see one line at a time when typing on this thing....and thoughts run faster than thumbs:P

[Zenako]

Sounds like bad luck to some degree. As someone mentioned, time of day can also play a factor. I suspect that if you happened to be playing during daylight hours, then the chances of playing with younger players, who tend to be less accepting of "newness" since god knows they were never new to anything, was higher. In the evening, after we have the kids in bed and time to play rolls around a more "vintage" crowd is online.

You probably made the right choice to drop group when they booted the new player. They would probably have not been as much fun for you to play with anyway.

The big thing that made the whole Marketplace Event last month so much fun was that EVERYONE was new, it was the first (and only time) those adventures were happening. Hearing level 16 mostly twinked out fighters shouting out over voice, when the red names all popped on his sorry behind was cool. The ringing in our ears took a bit to settle down:), but that sort of thing really never happens in a quest. Unless you are running it first time, first night a new mod opens and no one in the group has read any spoilers from the test server.

[roadkill525]

lol I think next time someone calls me old I'll hafta tell em I'm not old I'm just vintage

[Zenako]

lol I think next time someone calls me old I'll hafta tell em I'm not old I'm just vintage

Put it this way, if you can recall where you were when JFK got sho:(t...you're vintage..:cool:.

[brutestrings]

never had that problem on Gall server

[Dirac]

While I have not pugged in some time, I used to do it a lot for the first 1 1/2 years and have never seen such a thing happen.

One thing that is quite astonishing in the OP's story, is that the one person booted, wasn't just a new player but one on a trial accont. If xynxie hadn't then dropped to run with them, is there a chance they would have stayed with the game? If one's purposeful intent is to kill the game, it is hard to imagine a more effective action to take.

[Gornin]

LOL. "The soulstone looks the same." Dude, that is sig worthy.

[BlueLightBandit]

It might also be important to differntiate between a Noob and a Newb.

Newb: Someone new to a situation or scenario, and is unfamiliar because of NEW-ness.

Noob: Someone who has had every opportunity to learn, but for whatever reason simply isn't able to grasp the concept, as in... stOOpid.

If you've never run the quest before you're a newb. If you've run it a dozen times and still don't "get it" you're a noob. DDO is often newb friendly, but most would prefer to stay away from noobs.

[Oreg]

though you proved me correct....although painful....I obviously communicated my points in a way that you got them....again....I can only see one line at a time when typing on this thing....and thoughts run faster than thumbs:P

Np man - it was my fault for being ornery on a Friday afternoon.

[Oran_Lathor]

Hey Denta, I ran a few favor quests with you last week on my ranger (Arctera) .... Black Anvil Mines, Spawn of Whisperdoom, maybe a couple of others. Sorry to hear you've had some bad pug experiences. I think we all have, but just stick it out man. There's a lot of good people on Sarlona too, and as you play longer (especially at high levels) you'll get a good network of people who you gel with.

That said, you make some good points. Makes ya wonder how many new players leave the game without a word due to this kinda stuff. The funny thing is, from my experience, the players who act like you describe tend to be perma-n00bs themselves. Which is to say, no matter how long they play they're still terrible and annoying. haha.

Anyway, I just wanted to add, if the guild you had a problem with was a large one - maybe you should PM their leaders and tell them about that players behaviour? I mean, the whole guild likely isn't full of jerks... though i spose it's possible.

See you in Stormreach

[Kalari]

I made a thread about it on the Sarlona server about the sometimes lack of respect people can give to new players. Ive had really good runs on Sarlona to so please dont get me wrong. In fact a few of the posters in this thread have run me on great runs and put up with the fact that im still learning.

Its just hard to pug when even after you tell people your new they just see the end goal. Its why lately unless im really pressed I just wait for my guild members to sign on and run with them. Sure it means a wait but its sometimes better then risking being yelled at (trust me its happened a couple more times then id care for it to) or treated like dirt because im not as skilled as some. I warn people up ahead yes im level 12 now only been playing since mid feburary. And the only reason im this level is because I am a curious person, so when people invited me to run things specially the first few weeks in id gladly go. But ive had a few bad runs that made me rethink helping, I dont care about dying as long as my death doesnt throw off the whole party. But I do hate being talked down to or being left behind because people have no patience.

But this hasnt happened all the time, and for the most part ive met patient players who have taken me on runs like Stormcleave, POP, Madstone, Vons and Deliras and even Tempest Spine. Sure there were times due to lag or my learning what spells work that I died. But I found the people I ran with were generally understanding.

Then I had the miss pleasure of running some runs like Xioran Cipher and some house J stuff where people completely lost it. I still wont run with the player who cussed at me and some other new players who couldnt avoid the purple blobs there. The other person who was upset on a Deliras quest I just let him get it out his system. I took it all in stride but it made me contemplate leaving the game to, in fact if I hadnt been in my guild already by that time I may have. Players with bad attitudes can ruin what should be a fun and new experiance for new players. And there are newbies who are noobish. Its because we are still learning stuff, so there are bound to be times we mess up. If you want a perfect group be upfront. I always say id prefer to drop for someone you can run with easier then be the one holding the group up.


Though I will say I find it easier now to run at night, more laid back people and understanding players. I dont feel as edgy to go on a pug when I have to in the evening. But the bad runs have limited my meeting new players because they have made me gun shy to join a group. And I still dont know enough of the game content to lead any place I havent already exhausted. To the OP All I can say is keep at it I know you said you are an Alehound and mostly play with your brothers, but if you want you can add Kalari to your friends list and if im on I'll run with you. I like helping though I will warn ya I can bumble at times.

[deadmanet]

I started DDO with the headstart. Jumped into a guild that only formed for the bonus items, ended up leaving the guild
as no one was ever really on and a lot joined other guilds. So, I ran solo for a while, and when I went to join Pugs, I told
them up front that I either hadn't done the quest before, and I was still kinda new. Granted, I pick things up quickly(even
easier for games) and I had been play D&D for a long time, so I didn't have that much of a problem picking up DDO. Well,
after about a year, I had to quit for a few months due to home life issues. Came back for the first returning players weekend.
During that week I almost remembered why it took me so long to come back to DDO. Had many pugs either not invite when told
or if I didn't tell them ahead of time, got dropped as soon as i did, or if I made a newb mistake.

I had made it to lvl 10 on my main/only character before I had left.Iside note: had been booted from guild due to not playing)
So, when I came back, a lot of the community(at least the part I kept running into) was expecting me to be able to jump right back in and be able to hold my own. Well, I almost didn't come back after that. If it wouldn't have been for a couple of my
current guildmates taking the time to relax and take it easy on some quests(got Titan rdy) I would have just played for the rest
of the free week, and then that would have been it. But, I ran with them, got to know a few of them during those quests, and
I guess they liked my have fun personality, as I was invited to join. Well, I decided to give it a longer try, and I will tell you
what, am I glad I did. So, sometimes we just gotta kinda roll with the punches so to speak, and if we can't seem to enjoy
ourselves(thats what a game's for right) then we just don't play it.

As far as those that drop the new players, I got a nice list of people I won't run with as that really irratates me. Now, don't get
me wrong, I have times when I'm on that I don't have the time/patience to help someone new, but the LFM always says so, and
if I get someone that can't keep up trying to join, I will apologize and tell them the truth, don't have much time to play, and am
just running whatever quest it is really fast for whatever reason it may be. And still today, I am still new to a lot of the quests
myself, as I am a pretty casual player, so I will try not to run anything I haven't done before unless its a guild run, as I still get
that type of attitude from a lot of the pugs out there(not all, it's been about 50/50) I'm starting to ramble now, so I will just
say this:

We where all new once/still are new to some things, everynow and then we need to stop and smell the roses.

[Aranticus]

i play on khyber, been playing for 1.5 yrs. never done the titan on a clr or wiz, only with my ftr on purple side. was trying out the puzzles with guildies so we can have a good run. never lead a titan raid group. yesterday, i lead a pug titan group. hiccups here, hiccups there, nothing too major. we got thru the pre-raid, a little slow but we got thru. we then beat titan on elite. what am i trying to say? there can be tons of things one of them is not to be dependant on others to get a group up. if you think you have the ability, step up and lead a group. i applaud what you did for the wiz. this is the kind of attitude we should have.

like you, there are some players and guilds i'll never play with, same reason as what you mentioned. i help out lots week in week out. newbies deserves our help, after all, i'm sure someone helped us when we were newbie ourselves. however, it is a 2 way communication. how many times have you done a reaver which went south when the puzzle solvers died? has happened to me quite a number of times. how so? there will always people out there who will just be contented to ride on the coat tails of others. there is absolutely no way to help these people as they do not want to be helped. but for those that ask, i'm very willing to explain the entire quest or puzzle. just this month alone, i taught 3 players how to do the reaver puzzle w/o the spreadsheet. mind ya, its not an explain then over kind of thing. i actually explained, took them for a trial run to see how i do it, and finally another run to let them try it out while i watch over them.

there is always a first time out there. fellow players, do give others a chance to try. i know your time is valuable and you want your quest/raid to be a success. however, if we do not give the newbs a chance, there will be alot of noobs..........

[Invalid_86]

I'm sorry to hear that you had some problems with some rude players. There is nothing wrong with being new- we all were once- and most pugs I've been with have had no problem having newbies along.

By the same token I've been playing for a while, but if I am playing a quest for the first time I'll just say "heads up, I've never done this one before". I've never seen anyone have a problem with that. If they do then you probably don't want to play with them anyways!

[ShaeNightbird]

I also gave my reasons in Kalari's thread in the Sarlona forum.

I'm new. I like playing with other new folks. I despise the word "Noob" being hurled as invective, which seems to refer to the so called differentiation in terms theory, which I find somewhat arrogant, actually. I have very little patience with arrogance, rudeness, aggression towards other players, (In your group, not in the PvP pit, but even there, it can be excessive when one Oober Goober takes out everyone in the entire pit, not merely the one/s they were duelling, then continue to grief you); or believe it or not, instant attitude change (negative) when the other members of the group realise I'm female. There have been notable exceptions. Early on, one long timer gave my new character a chance, and gave me some really great tips and suggestions which I found essential in developing that character. I grouped with the guy twice, before he resumed playing his high level main. It was a terrific experience. It was also the only time it's happened to me. I'm not a power gamer, I play to have fun. I'm more concerned with making friends than xp. I admit, I'd be somewhat of a gearhead if I only could make enough to cover my expensive tastes, but wands aren't cheap- I'm a Cleric, and require a constant supply. I group with my guild, a guild affiliated with mine, or friends whom I know. I wish this were different, but people are people, and if I don't like someone's attitude, I'm not going to sit there and argue with them as to whether it's right or wrong. I just poof, and that's it.

I get tired of what I perceive to be krappe and BS. Ive even gotten krappe from people because I'm a member of a Role Play guild, and we...Role Play. We've invited non guildies into our groups to fill them out on occasion, and the leader makes certain that he/she tells potential party members what to expect. They get in, and get all pyssed off because of the RP! They don't understand that it's just storyline, invented for entertainment purposes only, and to add a fun dimension to the game. One that was very evident in PnP D&D. (Seriously, if my real life were as messed up as my poor character's is, I should do myself a favour and die now.) All some folks seem to care about is xp, loot, zerging, uber, bla bla. That is what I find boring. So I don't even go there. It's a game! I think people should lighten up and not be so deadly serious. It seems to me, however that sometimes these attitudes are used as little online power and intimidation trips. That's where it turns tragic, and since I have a decidedly dark sense of humour I can (and do) use it to my defense. Oh, and I am always willing to help my local "Noob". I'm still one of those too. Since there is always something more in life to learn, I always will be.

[samagee]

As a Sarlona player I am down right embarrased that you were treated that way. Let me know if someone from my guild was responsible for any of this. In fact send me a message in game when you can, and we will meet up and talk. We have been recruiting alot of new players and helping them get around.

You really do have to be careful what kind of people you party with. I sometimes stand and watch the LFMs and look to see who is in the groups before I ask to join up. It's sad to say, but I do keep a blacklist of players I will not run with. It's not because they are new. It's because they act the way you have described here.

[Frodo_Lives]

I always try to be considerate and helpful to new people. However I am shocked by the number of people who don't give a ****. I have seen this behaviour on more than one occasion.

Last night I was running a normal run of Delera's, lvls 5 - 7 on a cleric that I am leveling up it was not advertised as a speed run. Group consisted of a rogue, ranger, cleric, barb, fighter, and a new player who had never run Delera's before. The new player was on a wizard and was the last to join the group, and made it known that he didn't know the quest and has never run it before. I gave him the basic heads up that it was an undead filled 4 part quest and that the quest advancement was a little tricky but that I'd help him through it. After all when I was new I must have missed out on the end reward a few times cause I forgot to talk to someone.

The Barbarian tried to zerg throughout most of the quest but the rest of us stuck together fairly well and the quest was smooth going. At the end of the third part the Barb who was usually a room ahead of most of us jumped down to the big end fight and tried to solo it. I didn't heal him on purpose and he was left hiding in a corner with a sliver of life left. Unfortunately the new player died trying to follow him down there and after the fight no one could make it back to a shrine to raise him.

So far not the end of the world. But the wizard had to recall out, get his hp and sp back and then run into the graveyard, back outside, over to Hargo, back into the dungeon to talk to delera, and so on and so forth. Because it was quite confusing it took a while. Probably not much more that 5 minutes. But of course the Barbarian enters the last part of the quest and tries to solo it. It was amusing to watch his health bar shrink and shrink (I was kind of hoping it would disappear). Then come the comments about how this is taking so long and what's the hold up.

I informed him that the wizard was just trying to get his quest advanced and if he didn't like it he could drop group and we can easily finish without him. I wasn't really pleasant about it either. I mean come on, what is the big deal waiting for a few extra minutes to make sure that someone new has a chance to learn how to advance the quest properly. By the time we got in there we were at -80% xp! I'll grant it took a lot longer than I would have liked to get moving again but still there is a new player in the group. Thankfully the -80% went away and everyone got full xp but the barb was the first to drop group after we all finished and I felt like I had to apologize (and I did) for the other players actions. Everyone else was nice, helpful, and very understanding.

I have been in many groups that had players like the above mentioned barbarian who had no time for anyone who was new, either to the game or to the quest. It still boggles my mind that some people can't spend an extra 10 minutes in a quest to make it a better experience for a new player, I don't know maybe the barbarians mother was telling him it was bedtime. :rolleyes:

[ShaeNightbird]

Nobody needs to be mean like that. I get real sick of griefer snerts who bully other folks around. I wonder just how many new people have been turned off to this game, or any other one out there by the attitude problems some people exhibit.

[captain1z]

OK my 2 cents


first off, I understand when you wanna rant all bets are off. It s how you feel atm and you just wanna get it out. Ive done it, I understand and you are not to be held accountable for all that you say. Logged and noted.


But..............


you played 4 months and got 1750 favor, this means:

- you have played 80% of the games content on hard and/or elite
- you have a 32 pt build
- you have run the vast majority of quests 1-3 times at least
- you quest often and a lot

You can no longer tell people you are new

You say the grind to level lowbies is boring and only having new people along makes it fun again, this means:

- you have leveled multiple characters over the 4 months
- you know all the quests from levels 1-10 to the point of bordom
- you probably zerg through the lower quests to minimize bordom
- you quest often and a lot

You say you used to get dropped from groups often = maybe
Do you get dropped from groups now = doubtful


For comparison:

I am more than a decade younger than you, I have fewer responsibilities in life (no kids or wife), I have been playing 6 times as long as you have and still ................. I do not have 1750, I go into groups and tell the leader "Ive never done this quest before, is that ok?", Ive never been dropped from a group ....... ever, never having done a quest before if the group Im with zergs at my experience level... I can at the very least "keep up" /mumbles "if I can see".

Still I cannot claim to be "new" and this impatient youth seems to have more patience than you when it comes to 1750. 2 years <----- no 1750


Im just saying man, fine Ill admit, we have to help the 1st timers have fun and get settled in but.......................

Im holding a meeting and your invited


/wave - "hello everybody, my names Captain1 and Im a zerger"


they say the first step to a cure is admitting you have a problem ...... we all care for you and are here to intervene. :)

[HumanJHawkins]

you played 4 months and got 1750 favor, this means:

- you have played 80% of the games content on hard and/or elite
- you have a 32 pt build
- you have run the vast majority of quests 1-3 times at least
- you quest often and a lot

You can no longer tell people you are new

You missed a few important lines from his post... He is no longer claiming to be new. He was ****ed because he was treated badly when he was new, and has seen other new people get treated bad recently.

[JKJudgeX]

The OP makes a solid, satisfying point that strikes true with me, very deeply.

I never capped out a toon in DDO. I had 2 get to 8, but, from there, getting into PUGs that could earn XP fast enough for me to level given my playtime became a horrid event. I never got dropped from group for being a noob, but, I've been sighed at for not knowing which house a quest started in, pretty much poked fun of for being worthless on my first bard (had a low str build, didn't know any better, bad spell list, too, long time ago)...

So yeah, it IS work to level up in this game, and it's NOT fun, which is why I've had to go through the cancel process twice on this game. While it's huge fun, it's also not. Still the best fantasy MMO out there.

Here's a similar thing... during the big tent event, I was there, alongside with everyone else, burning precious weekend time in game, having a good time.

I asked in general if anyone was looking for a casual player guildie in the level 8 range to join them and pitch in where he could... and literally 3 people jumped on me for being "pathetic" and "begging" to get into a guild. Real nice community, guys. The suggestions came rolling in, to "play" with someone a few times first, but with my playing schedule, I rarely ever even see the same people more than twice. Why? They are always in a quest when I am on, and I can't wait around for 4 hours not questing in order to get into a group with a specific person who may or may not want me as a guildie.

That aside, just the rudeness of the community at large, in these forums, and in game, was a huge turnoff for me. People get angry with you in DDO for trying to earn XP at a fast rate so you can experience the higher level stuff (regardless of if you've run the low level stuff 10+ times learning that your characters all suck or not)... asking for tips on how to level quickly almost always becomes a flame war where you are told to slow down and enjoy the game. Other MMOs don't really suffer from that, the communities are large enough to have a contingent of players who understand not having 8+ hours to play video games in a given day, and those people gladly do what they can to help.

I've been Both. One to give out the quick tips, and one to have 8 hours a day to game. Now I'm a casual gamer.

[HumanJHawkins]

I made a thread about it on the Sarlona server about the sometimes lack of respect people can give to new players.

Dude... Sarlona is awesome for how cool it is to new players. When I was new, I had people I just met give me loot that they could have sold for 10K plat (back when that was a LOT of plat). I had people lead me through tough quests, letting me know where traps are. AND, I've even had people ask me if I wanted them to not tell me stuff so it would be a surprise.

And, I do my best now to pay this forward. I was on the other night trying to get relics in a hurry for a toon... Then a relatively new (and frankly slow learning) guy joined party. He clearly was going to slow us down (and he did). But, knowing that everyone is new once, and that some people need a little help even when they aren't new, we kept him in and slowed down. That's just the way a lot of us roll.

No server is free of mean people... But Sarlona is pretty good.

[suitepotato]

Good lord that was long...

You say that as if you never cast Wall of Text.



Never, ever, ever saw someone come to one of my PuGs and say "Hey guys, I dont know this quest, Im new" only to be dropped
or excused from the party.
[/quest]

I have, it's embarrassing, and I don't like it. If I fail an emotional fortitude check, I drop from the group in solidarity.

[quote=Beherit Baphomar;1639155]
Never once. I PuG A LOT.

Every time someone says something to that effect the answers are usually "No problem man" "No biggie".

The reason you wouldn't get dropped? Because have two experienced players in just about any quest in this game
is generally more than enough.

Answer to problem: don't talk. "Better to remain silent and be thought a noob than to speak out and remove all doubt."

Heck, even today I am a Power Follower. Tell me where to go and when I am expected to die, I'm there. Just rez me before you open the chest so I can get some loot too.

Besides, leading pugs is hard when you have a lot of non-noobs who do Leeroy Jenkins noob things because they think they knew everything. I remember this caster a long time ago who used to aggro everything throughout the entire instance of Relic and lead it back to the party without telling them he was going to do it, then booting them from his party when they recalled out after dying. He ended up solving the problem by his behavior because no one would group with him after a short while. But the dipstick wf who got killed trying to fight while learning the game? I got invited to the reformed groups afterwards to complete the quest.

Just be friendly, easy going, have a sense of humor, and don't place any importance on saying "I don't know" all the time unless you follow up with, "but if you tell me I'll go bang it out."

[Crud]

Best thing I ever did was to join a permadeath guild. Great people who watch your back, even if you've only been playing 1 day. Makes for an old style tabletop feel to the game too.

Hey, been playing for over a year now and still don't have 1750 favor but am having a blast :0)

[Kalari]

Seriously its why even in my post on Sarlona I made sure to mention all the positive things that ive experianced to. And in that thread just like this one there are players from Sarlona who helped me out a bunch. And I run with the best group of people for my playstyle IE my guild which I met on Sarlona. I have some other experiemental toons on other servers but I dont play them much because Kal is happy where she is. What I was driving at is just like you said there are a few bad apples on each server, sometimes (especially when your new and have no clue) running into players like this can make what should be fun a bad experience. And while I got lucky the pros outweighed the cons, if I hadnt ran into the nice people I would have probably left this game based on some persons bad attitude. ((Sorry it was on Sarlona I was cussed at and it still bugs me that a player can be that immature)). Either way Im not knocking the server in fact I think Judgek maybe should have started up his toons on Sarlona, only there can you see such a good mesh, and at night there are even more nice people. Its Sarlona my wizard is moving closely to cap, Ive gotten nice tips good advice and very nice gifts from vet players. So trust me I know Sarlona is a great server, just need to steer clear of the ones who take the game too seriously and it will be a perfect place for me.