Ten Ton Hammer gets a first look at Module 7!

[Quarion]

Our friends at www.tentonhammer.com have release an interview with Senior Producer, Kate Paiz which reveals a little about Module 7!

Click Here (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/28638) to read the interview.

[Rameses]

I just want cloths for my monk!
I don't want to wear a Robe.

[arminius]

Overall, looks interesting. Glad to have more info! Glad to have more insight into the decisions that are made and why.

Meh on "10 Kobold" type quests though. While you guys might think you could pull in more WoW people with a more WoW type experience, never forget that many of us are here solely because this is not WoW.

_

[dakkon75]

/signed also would like to option to change my rogue's and barbarian's "dresses" to clothing.

[Cutedge]

Adding stuff like "kill x kobolds" in the vein of LOTRO's "Deed" system would/will be nice. At least it's something else to do when there aren't as many people around. I think some more solo dungeons would be good too. Some solo dungeons above level 1 (even a 6-8 one) would be cool.

I think the problem is that as you progress through the game it becomes more and more of a requirement that you are grouped. Now, I do think grouping is the way to go but it seems like the problem is when there's only 3 guildies on and it's not enough to be able to run any serious quests. In that case we're just making orchard runs and the like and it gets old.

I guess this post came off kind of rambling so the tl;dr is that there needs to be more solo/small group content for higher levels because it seems like all the solo/small group stuff that is added gets added to the lower levels and I think the low levels are pretty well covered. From my experience watching people come into the game, the wall seems to be at level 8 or so because that's when you pretty much have to get a full group.

Then again, things like crafting will definitely help in the things to do category :)

[ArkoHighStar]

I shuddered when I read this


But we know that people also don’t always have time to find a party. Sometimes people don’t have time to go through a full-length dungeon. One of the things that we’re doing in Module 7, which is a bit similar to LOTRO, is putting in some of the quest mechanics that you might see in that game. You may walk up to an NPC, gather a dozen small quests, then over the course of several hours or days you’ll gradually fulfill those smaller quests from that sort of lighterweight mechanism.

[dragnmoon]

I have to say... these 2 statements upset me..


Ten Ton Hammer: And what about races like the gnome that are being taken out of 4.0 but never made it into DDO?

Kate: The gnome is a great example of a rule that we’re looking at. Are we going to be introducing them into the game after the 4.0 rule set comes out? Honestly, probably not. We’re probably going to have to base that decision on what the player base wants. If they’re upset that the gnomes aren’t going to be included as one of the core races, we may end up choosing to include them in the game, but we’re going to take a lot of cues from WotC and where they’re bringing the brand so we can stay consistent with them.

Ten Ton Hammer: Does that mean that new races that are being introduced in 4th Edition, like Dragonborn, will be looked at to be included in DDO?

Kate: Absolutely. Again, we have to know what the details are and understand how the Dragonborn interact with Eberron before we can begin commenting on their place in our world.


Why does it upset me?

They are saying no to gnomes.... and using the 4th edition PhB as a possible excuse not to add them...but they are using the excuse on seeing how dragonborn fit in ebberon to decide on how and if they will add them...

Gnomes are a Huge Part of Eberron.. they are a Dragon Marked family! they should definitely be included in a MMO based on Eberron.. and they will still be in 4th edition.. they are not going to just take out the gnomes in eberron in 4th edition.. they are to deep into the story of eberron.

But they will wait and see how they fit in eberron for dragonborn?..

So they are using the 4th edition Phb for one.. but not the other?

anyone see anything wrong with those 2 statements?

*By the way.. I am angry about no gnomes in this game :D

[ArkoHighStar]

I have to say... these 2 statements upset me..




Why does it upset me?

They are saying no to gnomes.... and using the 4th edition PhB as a possible excuse not to add them...but they are using the excuse on seeing how dragonborn fit in ebberon to decide on how and if they will add them...

Gnomes are a Huge Part of Eberron.. they are a Dragon Marked family! they should definitely be included in a MMO based on Eberron.. and they will still be in 4th edition.. they are not going to just take out the gnomes in eberron in 4th edition.. they are to deep into the story of eberron.

But they will wait and see how they fit in eberron for dragonborn?..

So they are using the 4th edition Phb for one.. but not the other?

anyone see anything wrong with those 2 statements?

*By the way.. I am angry about no gnomes in this game :D


I think WOTC will probably be in the driver seat for this decision

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Please dont turn this game into WoW or LOTRo.
Be more inventive than "Kill 10 Kobolds - Now kill 20 Kobolds!"

[Borror0]

Ten Ton Hammer: So you might get a “Kill 10 Kobolds” quest and you’d just need to find 10 kobolds to kill?

Kate: That’s exactly right.

In Module 7 we’re also going through each of the landscape areas and attempting to make the roadways more soloable, because you’ll occasionally run into a nest of scorpions or something like that as you’re walking down a road.

Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! /cry


Ten Ton Hammer: Here’s a random question: Do you ever think the 1750 favor needed to gain the 32 build point template will change?

Kate: Not really. What we’re doing is looking at other rewards that we can put in between the Drow and the 32 point build. I really want to put something in at 1000 along with something around 1250 as well. Favor point achievements should be something that feel big and epic, and that can be a little challenging.

But there’s no question that for Module 8 we’re looking at introducing a whole bunch of these little rewards to our players

Cool.


That said, some rules definitely won’t be making their way into the game. For example, I think Bards are coming out as one of the core classes, and we’re definitely not taking them out of our game.

Bards are not a core class in 4th ED? Confirmation, explanation?


Ten Ton Hammer: What’s the wilderness zone going to be? Is that going to be more Shavarath content or something completely different?

Kate: The high level wilderness is going to be based in Shavarath, but it’s going to be underground. It’s going to actually have a combination of atmospheric settings because we’re actually going to be putting it under some of the city area. We’re hoping to get two high level experiences out of the area, but Shavarath is definitely our priority.

There ya go MT, see, I was pretty sure they had said so. :)


Ten Ton Hammer: Does that mean that new races that are being introduced in 4th Edition, like Dragonborn, will be looked at to be included in DDO?

Kate: Absolutely. Again, we have to know what the details are and understand how the Dragonborn interact with Eberron before we can begin commenting on their place in our world.

So, any lore master can tell me more about this than Kate did?

[Brynjolf]

I'm not very fond of the "kill X <monster type>" quests either, but if done properly it won't be much different that the slayer quests in the wilderness areas. As long as it's not "bring me 10 wolf hides" and then you find out that not all wolves have hides. :eek: Hopefully they won't go that route with it. ;)

[Revenant15]

eh, i wouldn't worry about the "kill this many of whatever" quest. It'll help with lower levels quest and we already have close to it with the explorable areas slayer quest. dragonborn might be cool, though how they would fit into eberron is beyond me. gnomes might be fun, but then again they might now. i'd be more concerned with half-orcs now.

[dragnmoon]

Bards are not a core class in 4th ED? Confirmation, explanation?


Correct No bards in 4th edition.. at first... They are doing Major changes to the classes*Major Changes! you won't recognize them at all*... and what the Core classes will be..

That said..they have said.. bard may be added later on in a supplement.

[Borror0]

It'll help with lower levels quest and we already have close to it with the explorable areas slayer quest.

Lower levels need no help, I can blow from 1-8 in no time, but at 8 it gets slower... and at 10 becomes Long! If they need some "help", it's where it has already been the "end game", from 9-13.


*Major Changes! you won't recognize them at all*

Do they give explanations, or just doing them for fun?


That said..they have said.. bard may be added later on in a supplement.

I had assumed so.

[ArkoHighStar]

Lower levels need no help, I can blow from 1-8 in no time, but at 8 it gets slower... and at 10 becomes Long! If they need some "help", it's where it has already been the "end game", from 9-13.



Do they give explanations, or just doing them for fun?



I had assumed so.

theres a class and races preview book out now describes some of what they have done. Its all in the name of balance appraently

[Hendrik]

I shuddered when I read this

Arko, same here.

While I empathize with the player that does not have the time to do the Quests as we have them now, however the addition of this "feature" leaves a very bad taste. We all see the similarity between this "feature" and another MMO's questing, and not speaking of LoTR here. I think this is a very bad step in the wrong direction for Turbine, DDO, and the players.

[Aesop]

1. Gnomes: I like gnomes. I understand they are tough and all that jazz but I still like them. I also understand that WotC is not adding them as playable in 4.0... that's their mistake.

2. MiniQuests: I'm a little hesitant about this. One of the things that make the game really different is that we don't have the kill 10 Kobolds Quests. I suppose if they are presented in the right way it'll be ok but seriously I'm not a delivery service I'm a powerful engine of destruction.

Now I'm opening my mind to allow for all this to sink in and letting my reservations go.

otherwise sounds good. I also second the request for real clothes not just a nightgown.

Heck these are the Equipment slots in PnP... Trinkets shouldn't even take a slot ... that said I wouldn't mind seeing the missing slot added and maybe a secondary Trinket Slot... I know I know... I'm greedy but seriously we could throw that slot in and have Guild Tabard's with Crests for Guild Photos its a little wow I know but come on it is still a pretty neat thing... :D

One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head
One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes
One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck
One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso
One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt)
One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor)
One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor)
One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists
One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands
One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand)
One pair of boots or shoes on the feet



Aesop

[dragnmoon]

Do they give explanations, or just doing them for fun?

With out going into my opinion..

They said the rules needed fixing... so they fixed them how they though from the feedback they needed fixing..

Example... No longer will the be memorization for Wizards...They are using a new spell system..

Go here to get an idea where they are going for 4th edition

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/ddxp/highlights

Then download the quick rules primer and Character sheets.

[Hendrik]

Please dont turn this game into WoW or LOTRo.
Be more inventive than "Kill 10 Kobolds - Now kill 20 Kobolds!"

My biggest fear when I read this was a noticeable shift to be more like 'other' MMO's

NOT having these types of "quests" is a big draw to myself and others. The closest I EVER want to get to 'kill 10 kobolds' is the Slayer's we have in open landscapes.

Please DEV's, you are FAR more talented then this. I know you are. I would rather have nothing vs said questing.

[dragnmoon]

1. Gnomes: I like gnomes. I understand they are tough and all that jazz but I still like them. I also understand that WotC is not adding them as playable in 4.0... that's their mistake.


They will not be a Core race in the Default world 4.0 rules... but they still will be in the Eberron 4.0 rules.. *Eberron is being supported in 4.0, Not sure of how soon*

[mrtreats]

I think all but this are cool
"Ten Ton Hammer: So you might get a “Kill 10 Kobolds” quest and you’d just need to find 10 kobolds to kill?


Kate: That’s exactly right.

In Module 7 we’re also going through each of the landscape areas and attempting to make the roadways more soloable, because you’ll occasionally run into a nest of scorpions or something like that as you’re walking down a road. "

if i want that kind of quest ill load LOTRO them quests are BS in a game thats saposed to be about a group playing not all solo content

[Fahkrin]

I'm annoyed that we won't get gnomes, but we'll get Dragonborn (which made my purchase of Races of the Dragon pretty lame; I got the idea they were just filler).

As someone said, Gnomes are at least one Dragonmark House (House Jorasco)! EDIT: They're House Sivis

Are we also not going to be getting half-orcs either now? I understand that half-orcs are getting removed from 4E first (because the designer was never comfortable with their implied origin). Another Dragonmark House.

And on a related note, are we going to see any of the OTHER Dragonmark houses? I think that being able to go on missions for House Valadis (they have the Mark of Handling; mostly animal related) would be the setting for some awesome big-game hunting. Or escorting members of House Tharashk (Mark of Finding) to locate dragonshards would be neato. Or helping House Sivis (Mark of Scribing, I think) with their duties. I could go on...

[Taerdra]

Monks? Yay!
New wilderness encompassing planar travel? Yay!
Additions to crafting? Yay!

New quest format? Awful. That would seriously make me think about leaving. I don't want this to be like other MMOs. Worse... I've never seen anyone ask for anything remotely like that before. This game is dangerously becoming a time dump where grinding is the only constant. I still really enjoy this game, but I'm having a hard time getting into the grind for my high levels and their greensteel items and equally hard time getting excited about levelling up new toons. This won't help either I'm afraid.
4th Edition? Awful. Not really seeing a lot to like with the new rules, class structure, etc. (see below on setting vs. rules)

Suggestions
* Prioritize getting the enhancement system fully developed. Right now, it seems lopsided and is effecting class composition across the game negatively.
* I am worried about Monks being introduced as a class without the needed accessories that will make it a worthwhile class to play. We don't need another splash class.
* A la the enhancement point, I wish we would prioritize filling in the game system. Monks are great, but there are significant races and classes that really need to be looked at and incorporated into the game ASAP.
* Don't do things that cannot be executed well. I really think the event was an interesting idea and a really great attempt at adding something unique to the game. How it was executed did not live up to what it could have been.
* Lastly, I think setting should take priority over rules adjustment. I personally really want this game to evolve into Eberron. I don't want to see changes to rules unless they enhance the world we're already playing in.

[Aesop]

They will not be a Core race in the Default world 4.0 rules... but they still will be in the Eberron 4.0 rules.. *Eberron is being supported in 4.0, Not sure of how soon*

Well that makes me feel...slightly better

[Taerdra]

As someone said, Gnomes are at least one Dragonmark House (House Jorasco)!
House Sivis actually... but amen to adding Gnomes.



Are we also not going to be getting half-orcs either now? I understand that half-orcs are getting removed from 4E first (because the designer was never comfortable with their implied origin). Another Dragonmark House.

And on a related note, are we going to see any of the OTHER Dragonmark houses? I think that being able to go on missions for House Valadis (they have the Mark of Handling; mostly animal related) would be the setting for some awesome big-game hunting. Or escorting members of House Tharashk (Mark of Finding) to locate dragonshards would be neato. Or helping House Sivis (Mark of Scribing, I think) with their duties. I could go on...

Yes, I would really like to see more houses added as well.

[GeneralDiomedes]

NOT having these types of "quests" is a big draw to myself and others. The closest I EVER want to get to 'kill 10 kobolds' is the Slayer's we have in open landscapes.

Please DEV's, you are FAR more talented then this. I know you are. I would rather have nothing vs said questing.

Ah, but these talented DEVs have proven that they can't create enough 'real' content to satisfy the busier half of their customer base.

The real question is if more fluff means less meat. I am hoping it doesn't.

[Strykersz]

Looks like they're beginning to move the goal posts on 20 by the end of the year("The level cap will definitely be heading to 18 later in the year, but it won’t be in Module 7").

[Zuldar]

With out going into my opinion..

They said the rules needed fixing... so they fixed them how they though from the feedback they needed fixing..

Example... No longer will the be memorization for Wizards...They are using a new spell system..

Go here to get an idea where they are going for 4th edition

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/ddxp/highlights

Then download the quick rules primer and Character sheets.

I wouldn't mind something like the healing surges added. It would give characters a bit more ability to keep themselves up. Maybe base it off action boosts, 5 a rest and it could heal the same amount as using a shrine. If you have someone in the party with a good heal skill even better. Throw in a couple enhancements for one or two more surges a rest, maybe an enhancement to make it a bit more effective.

[MysticTheurge]

Ten Ton Hammer: So you might get a “Kill 10 Kobolds” quest and you’d just need to find 10 kobolds to kill?

Kate: That’s exactly right.

Worst. News. Evar.

I hope you guys are doing this more creatively than she makes it sound and this was just a little PR mis-speak.

And I'm not happy about the Gnome news either. I'd put money on Gnomes becoming a PC race before they release the 4E Eberron Campaign Setting in 2009 (or at the very least in the 4E ECS). As such, it seems logical to go ahead and work on implementing them into DDO.

[Cutedge]

New quest format? Awful. That would seriously make me think about leaving. I don't want this to be like other MMOs. Worse... I've never seen anyone ask for anything remotely like that before. This game is dangerously becoming a time dump where grinding is the only constant. I still really enjoy this game, but I'm having a hard time getting into the grind for my high levels and their greensteel items and equally hard time getting excited about levelling up new toons. This won't help either I'm afraid.


Judging that there's already enough content to get through the levels up to 16, I doubt the addition of more quests is going to change much. I don't want this game to turn into WOW but I don't think we need to be worried about that. It's just another *option* of something to do.

[dragnmoon]

And I'm not happy about the Gnome news either. I'd put money on Gnomes becoming a PC race before they release the 4E Eberron Campaign Setting in 2009 (or at the very least in the 4E ECS). As such, it seems logical to go ahead and work on implementing them into DDO.


Listen to MT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Want my Gnomes!!!!... *Pic posted many times in these forums..*

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x226/dragnmoon/Gnome.jpg

[Mad_Bombardier]

Worst. News. Evar.

I hope you guys are doing this more creatively than she makes it sound and this was just a little PR mis-speak.I'm not really worried about mention of these types of "quests." I'm willing to bet platinum that Kate is talking about Slayer objectives in the wilderness areas. Others in the MMO industry just can't comprehend the concept of an actual quest, so Kate has to speak in terms that they'll understand. :p

[Angelus_dead]

Kate Paiz which reveals a little about Module 7!
Module 7, huh? Getting a bit ahead of yourselves. Is there any plan to finish module 5?

Hint: Module 5 will not be finished until the kinds of player groups who easily beat Thirteenth Eclipse on elite can complete Accursed Ascension on normal.

[Angelus_dead]

I'd put money on Gnomes becoming a PC race before they release the 4E Eberron Campaign Setting in 2009 (or at the very least in the 4E ECS). As such, it seems logical to go ahead and work on implementing them into DDO.
The Players & Classes 4th ed preview book explaints the reasons to leave Gnomes out of the core races. All of those reasons apply equally or better to DDO, and in addition there are other computer-specific reasons not to spend effort on gnomes.

[Jaywade]

Module 7, huh? Getting a bit ahead of yourselves. Is there any plan to finish module 5?

Hint: Module 5 will not be finished until the kinds of player groups who easily beat Thirteenth Eclipse on elite can complete Accursed Ascension on normal.

ouch.... that's going to leave a mark

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Module 7, huh? Getting a bit ahead of yourselves. Is there any plan to finish module 5?

Hint: Module 5 will not be finished until the kinds of player groups who easily beat Thirteenth Eclipse on elite can complete Accursed Ascension on normal.

The Orchard....The Orchard...hmmm....doesn't ring any bells....Are you sure this was in DDO?

I coulda swore we went straight from MOD4 to MOD6.

WAIT!
WAIT!

Its coming back to me now....The Reverend raid boss, right? The Priest? The Monk?

[dragnmoon]

The Players & Classes 4th ed preview book explaints the reasons to leave Gnomes out of the core races. All of those reasons apply equally or better to DDO, and in addition there are other computer-specific reasons not to spend effort on gnomes.

Since I did not buy that book..and won't... can you tell us why?... And how that effects that Gnomes are still a huge part of Eberron? and How a game that is based on Eberron should not include them?

[MysticTheurge]

The Players & Classes 4th ed preview book explaints the reasons to leave Gnomes out of the core races. All of those reasons apply equally or better to DDO, and in addition there are other computer-specific reasons not to spend effort on gnomes.

"Gnomes lack a strong position in D&D."

That's really the only "problem" with gnomes presented in Races and Classes. And it's not really a problem in Eberron. Eberron Gnomes have a unique place in the campaign setting that isn't "elf-dwarf-halflings—a strange mixture of the three with little to call their own besides being pranksters." Heck, if you really want to get down to it, it's not as though Gnomes don't exist in 4E, they're just not in the PHB. If you want to make DDO's gnomes fit the current 4E incarnation of what a "gnome" is, I suppose you could. But it probably wouldn't fit very well with Eberron's existing backstory for gnomes (which already does a fine job differentiating them from Elves, Dwarves and Halflings).

Eberron stepped beyond the concept of Gnomes presented in Races of Stone and created an iconic place for gnomes, which is the main "problem" the 4E authors seem to have with them.

[Tanka]

Ten Ton Hammer: And the level cap is increasing in Module 7?

Kate: Nope! The Monk is going to be the focus, and pretty much all of our character ability folks are dedicated to that task. The level cap will definitely be heading to 18 later in the year, but it won’t be in Module 7.
Why only level 18? Casters don't get any new spell levels. The only "issue" is extra abilities for the various classes by going from a L16 cap to a L20 cap. And, honestly, those would be way easier to code in than entirely new spells.

So why capping at 18 when 19 and 20 will offer very little in terms of rewards that a player can use?

[GovtMule]

Have I mentioned that I think you guys are going to turn this into the best MMOG ever?

Thumbs up ladies and gentlemen! After two years you can still make me say "Oh, no! COOL!" :)

[dragnmoon]

"Gnomes lack a strong position in D&D."

MT you bought that PR book?... I won't touch it...It should have been free

That is why they are not adding them in 4.0 PhB?..

Luckily like you said.. that is not the case in Eberron.

[MysticTheurge]

So why capping at 18 when 19 and 20 will offer very little in terms of rewards that a player can use?

Presumably, the answer is "content."

They still have to make all those level 17-20 quests.

[LOUDRampart]

I'm glad to hear that we're getting Monks. But where is the discussion about druids?

I'm sad to hear gnomes are out of the picture (unless the playerbase really whines a lot it sounded like to me). But where is the discussion and release for 1/2 orcs?

Are both druids and 1/2 orcs thrown in the waste pile with gnomes?

[moorewr]

It's unsettling to read something like that and find so little to like.

Lotro style "quests" are one thing, but the fact that we're to go "mostly underground, under the city" with a couple Shavarrath elements.. that the explorer area is mentioned and the quests deprecated...

I feel like game development is drifting away from the focus on new and complex quests.. and quests are the life & blood of the game.

I also feel like the explorer areas are the wrong answer to "sense of movement" need.. we need another hub for adventures, not an island in an explorer zone...



Kate: There’s no question that more solo play is a request that we get all the time from players. At the heart of it, DDO is always going to be a party-based game. It’s what the IP is about and really what a lot of MMOs are about.

But we know that people also don’t always have time to find a party. Sometimes people don’t have time to go through a full-length dungeon. One of the things that we’re doing in Module 7, which is a bit similar to LOTRO, is putting in some of the quest mechanics that you might see in that game. You may walk up to an NPC, gather a dozen small quests, then over the course of several hours or days you’ll gradually fulfill those smaller quests from that sort of lighterweight mechanism.

Ten Ton Hammer: So you might get a “Kill 10 Kobolds” quest and you’d just need to find 10 kobolds to kill?

Kate: That’s exactly right.

[dragnmoon]

I'm glad to hear that we're getting Monks. But where is the discussion about druids?

I'm sad to hear gnomes are out of the picture (unless the playerbase really whines a lot it sounded like to me). But where is the discussion and release for 1/2 orcs?

Are both druids and 1/2 orcs thrown in the waste pile with gnomes?

Just because they did not mention druids and half-orcs does not mean they are not coming... They have been very adamant that they will be coming.

We have even seen video of Half-orcs being developed..

Though I would like to know what stage of development Druids are in.. I think I will send that question to DDO cast

[DrAwkward]

I'm not very fond of the "kill X <monster type>" quests either, but if done properly it won't be much different that the slayer quests in the wilderness areas. As long as it's not "bring me 10 wolf hides" and then you find out that not all wolves have hides. :eek: Hopefully they won't go that route with it. ;)

yeti skins, FTW!

I didn't find anything in that article that upsets me, or that was unreasonable. I'm pleased she did the interview, as this is the sort of stuff I like to hear about.

This item dissasembly thing intrigues me. Oh how I would love to strip "vicious" and "power II" of some otherwise decent stuff. Or, carefully extract the vorpal quality off my punctuation to tenderly apply it to a damage dealing weapon that I'm freakin proficient with.

[Tanka]

Presumably, the answer is "content."

They still have to make all those level 17-20 quests.
I don't personally like that answer, but I suppose I can understand it to an extent.

Still, M7 is a few months away. Then they have, what, 6+ months to get M8 finished before the end of the year hits? I'd personally rather M8 get pushed back so the cap can hit 20 in one go.

But that's just me.

[Angelus_dead]

Eberron Gnomes have a unique place in the campaign setting that isn't "elf-dwarf-halflings—a strange mixture of the three with little to call their own besides being pranksters."
The traits of Zilargo and House Sivis could have been given to some other race as a culture aspect. Gnomes aren't needed for that... halflings, elves, or even dwarves could've served that role.

More importantly, the role of Gnomes in the Eberron setting isn't the question. The pertinent issue is the role of a gnome in the party of adventurers.

[dragnmoon]

The traits of Zilargo and House Sivis could have been given to some other race as a culture aspect. Gnomes aren't needed for that... halflings, elves, or even dwarves could've served that role.

Technically that can be said about any of the dragon marks...

But they don't... Gnomes do...Gnomes were giving a deep & rich story in Eberron...They are a Huge part of Eberron..which this game is based on..

Kate says that Dragonborn will be looked at vs the way they fit in Eberron, Gnomes should be treated the same.


More importantly, the role of Gnomes in the Eberron setting isn't the question. The pertinent issue is the role of a gnome in the party of adventurers.

That is easy... As a Rogue, Cleric, Paladin,Wizard, Sorcerer, Monk, Fighter or a bard.. Or a MC of any of those.

[Trugaard]

I think this is great! Everyone has complained endlessly about the lack of Monks. Did they hurry a half-cocked version of a Monk into the game? No they are taking their time and that should be commended. I would think that the mere nature of the Monk would present a host of challenges in design. Introducing someone with a unique fighting style, in to a game where all the other (for the most part) modes of combat are established has to be hard.

Also the complaining about similairities between WoW and DDO are ridiculous. Killing a certain amount of monsters...hmmm...sounds like slayer! Who cares the manner in which it's presented, I happen to think that you should get XP for each individual kill. Like PnP each monster or group of monsters has an experience value. If I go out and kill a rare solo in the Vale, I get the rare encounter XP and from there on out I get credit for one kill in slayer. No matter how many times he kills me or I how many times I find him, I only really get XP once for defeating him. Every kill should net me experience since, I as a player actually gain personal experience from fighting a monster multiple times.

I see that some love Gnomes but I have more of a long distance relationship with them. I think as NPC's they are cool but I've always had a little problem with them being (to me mind you) a little Disney-ish. Just don't particularly care for them. Not that anyone cares but I don't see them as a Master Race in this game. Dragonborn is really awesome, I have read some on them but again I have fears that they will turn into the next Drow. I am forced to be grouped with at least 4 drow in every 6 man party (I exxagerate) and they all look the same.

I'm a little weary of 4th Ed rules without actually knowing how they will work with our current characters. I have no time to re-roll my characters to fit a new set of rules or to capitalize on all the benefits a new set of rules has to offer. We can always start with small changes and pick and choose the best additions to the online version.

Overall I am very happy with the direction of this game and I think most are, so don't be negative. We ask and ask and Turbine provides a glimpse of things to come. They show us the advent of the most sought class to date. What do you people say? (about 3 of 5) Boohoo I want this and that and this sucks and this disturbs me. They are proud of this and they pointed out tons of really great stuff. If you don't want to kill X amount of *enter your fave monster here* then don't do it.

I remember about 2 years ago they said this game wouldn't last. Nay sayers who claimed the game was not as good as WoW have eaten their words. I would bet that ratio of new players compared to current players greatly out numbers that of WoW, mind you not total numbers but newbs per 1000 current players for example.

This game is cutting edge, graphics wise, story lines, character progression (by far) and gameplay (most important). The community is great also. They have a sense of the heritige for D&D and the progression of such a profoundly conceived game. Be happy all, take solace in the fact that you are getting new content, Mod 7 and 8 are discussed here.

Couple of things I would love to see in addition to the stuff mentioned above:

- First and foremost - Give us the option of purchasing or earning more character slots. I want lots of characters and I want to keep some lowbies for, experience any new content at low levels, without deleting any of my experienced.
- Personalize my appearance - Maybe through crafting, color my armor, change my hair do, expand on the character gen possibilities.
- Find a reward for 2250 Favor - My idea (you may hate it) A new server, only available to 2250 Favorers' that gives you an automatic 32 point build on your first character, has a boosted XP table and lowers costs accross the board at all vendors. There would be nobody on the server who didn't know what they were doing and it would alot easier to expirment with different builds. Plus there would not be very much crowding.

Thats it for me! Out

[EspyLacopa]

One of the things that make the game really different is that we don't have the kill 10 Kobolds Quests.
I'm reminded of that one Quest NPC that jokingly asks you to collect 10 rat tails.

[Aesop]

I'm reminded of that one Quest NPC that jokingly asks you to collect 10 rat tails.

and the geni asking for 10 yeti hides

I swear if they put yeti I'm gonna be miffed

Aesop

[salmag]

Wow. I just read Kate's half-arsed interview and...

boy, am I disgusted...

If I wanted to play LOTRO, I would play that game. I want to play DDO, not an imitation of a different game.

It seems crafting (?) of some sort is going to be here, but it can only be done at ritual devices (ala Eldritch devices)

Bringing Dragonborn in (I have yet to hear anyone say they want dragonborn), and not a 3.5 and EBERRON (isn't this what DDO is based on) CORE CLASS like GNOMES is just plain sad. 4.0 D&D doesn't even look appealing.

Why not just start us all off as gods?

This is not D&D, it is looking more and more like some sort of creation that they are making up as they go along.

I am now more then ever sticking to my guns. One more year for them to SERIOUSLY add Gnomes.

After coming up with a very good new mod, news like this is terrible and very disappointing.

BRING IN GNOMES, BRING IN GNOMES, BRING IN GNOMES.

[Strykersz]

I think this is great! Everyone has complained endlessly about the lack of Monks. Did they hurry a half-cocked version of a Monk into the game? No they are taking their time and that should be commended. I would think that the mere nature of the Monk would present a host of challenges in design. Introducing someone with a unique fighting style, in to a game where all the other (for the most part) modes of combat are established has to be hard.


Because taking 6(7?) months to get mod 6 out allowed them to fully flesh out levels 15 and 16, with an abundance of new quests over the span of those levels, a broad selection of new high level enhancements, and an array of useful spells.

[Borror0]

Because taking 6(7?) months to get mod 6 out allowed them to fully flesh out levels 15 and 16, with an abundance of new quests over the span of those levels, a broad selection of new high level enhancements, and an array of useful spells.

I sense no sarcasm at all!!:rolleyes:

[Falco_Easts]

BRING IN GNOMES, BRING IN GNOMES, BRING IN GNOMES.

I couldn't agree more.



Guild housing would look terrible without lawn ornaments.

[Xgemina]

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything in the interview that says that Dragonborn race will be included. The question and Kate's answer was:


Ten Ton Hammer: Does that mean that new races that are being introduced in 4th Edition, like Dragonborn, will be looked at to be included in DDO?

Kate: Absolutely. Again, we have to know what the details are and understand how the Dragonborn interact with Eberron before we can begin commenting on their place in our world.
emphasis mine

Seems like to me she is saying that they will look at including the Dragonborn, but like any other race it is not guaranteed. Ya know, the whole have to know the details and interaction part of her response.

That aside, I would like to see all the dragon-marked races included in the game as playable races. So give us our darn gnomes and half-elves please!

As far as the go kill 10 of XXX quests...meh, so what? They probably won't be tied to favor and the xp will be minimal. If you don't care for such quests (and I admit I don't) then don't do them.

[Dungnmaster001]

Bringing Dragonborn in (I have yet to hear anyone say they want dragonborn), and not a 3.5 and EBERRON (isn't this what DDO is based on) CORE CLASS like GNOMES is just plain sad. 4.0 D&D doesn't even look appealing.


Ok I'll be the first to say it then. I'd like dragonborn as a playable race in DDO. There now you have heard it. It might even happen some day but I doubt it'll be anytime soon. More likely they will add eberron specific races first.

As far as 4th edition (it's NOT 4.0; they have NO plans for a 4.5 so calling it 4.0 is misleading. 3.5 was just a way to clear up and streamline rules that weren't playtested enough) I like almost everything I've seen about it. However I don't see it translating into DDO. What I predict is something like what Everquest did: a second game. DDO2 for lack of a better term. DDO1 would be more closely 3.5ish like what we have now, and DDO2 would be pure 4th edition. I really don't see any other way to do it unless they try and cram 4th edition rules into a 3.5 shell. Square Peg - Round Hole. not gonna work.

[MysticTheurge]

The pertinent issue is the role of a gnome in the party of adventurers.

Not really.

If this was a problem, there wouldn't be eleventy billion playable races out there. There wouldn't be people always looking to play something different, just for the sake of it.

You can find a place for just about anything in a party of adventurers. But it may be harder to find a role for everything in a setting. This is the impression I get from reading Races and Classes. Gnomes weren't distinctive enough from the other races to have an iconic place in the grand scheme of settings and/or D&D in the metaconscious of players, and so they're being dropped out (or more accurately, pushed back to some other non-PHB supplement).

But Gnomes do have a place in the Eberron setting, and a place in the minds and hearts of people who play in Eberron. We have what makes them distinct from Elves and Dwarves and Halflings. And while those things could have been given to some other race, they weren't. That's sort of like saying Kalashtar could've just been psionic humans. Or that the half-elven dragonmarks could've been split up between the elves and the humans. Sure, they could've but they weren't. And no amount of "could've" is going to change that. Eberron is what it is. WotC would be beyond stupid to try to reassign dragonmarks to other races just because they don't have something in their 4E PHB.

Gnomes will be part of 4E Eberron games, and most will continue to play the role that they played in 3E Eberron games.

[DasLurch]

Overall, looks interesting. Glad to have more info! Glad to have more insight into the decisions that are made and why.

Meh on "10 Kobold" type quests though. While you guys might think you could pull in more WoW people with a more WoW type experience, never forget that many of us are here solely because this is not WoW.

_

Amen Arminius!

I think having someone that you can talk to for a reward for doing some small quests, good idea. those quests being of the "kill 10 XXX" and report back type, not so much. Find 5 of these gems in a kobold infested warehouse? Good. Find 10 warehouses that have Kobolds, bad. Remember what the 1st word in the title is after all :)

Keep up the good work, and thanks for the update. They are always welcome.

[Sheezgame]

I really don't see the point of Kill 10x Kobolds quests when you already have the mechanics for defending keeps against waves of attackers etc.


If you wan't to do that sort of thing, but keep DDO different, then do (like you do in devils assault) and the more waves you defeat the more xp & rewards you get.

That is a great mechanic that is often very fun, and very underused. Having the pressure of defeat waves rather than slowly going through a quest is often more exciting!



Also, if I ever get a quest to collect 10 spider legs, I will be rage quitting! That stuff makes orcs cry.



P.s. - Who cares about gnomes, give us half-orcs :)

[Angelus_dead]

Gnomes will be part of 4E Eberron games, and most will continue to play the role that they played in 3E Eberron games.
Accepting money to send telegrams? That's the role they have now... it doesn't mean much.

Players rarely ever make a gnome PC. They're just not popular.

[Angelus_dead]

If this was a problem, there wouldn't be eleventy billion playable races out there. There wouldn't be people always looking to play something different, just for the sake of it.
In PnP, the effort to create a "new playable race" is one paragraph of ability adjustments and bonus feats, then one more paragraph of favored class and "reasons for adventuring". The result is rarely even balanced, unless the race is only trivially different from baseline humans.

The reason there are so many races isn't because of a high demand for them... it's because the effort is minimal.

[Borror0]

Players rarely ever make a gnome PC. They're just not popular.

You have not met my roomate. He puts life and soul into his gnomes liek never before. Trust me, they are simply not known enough and underused, but they are very alive and inteesting.

[Aesop]

Accepting money to send telegrams? That's the role they have now... it doesn't mean much.

Players rarely ever make a gnome PC. They're just not popular.

um... I love gnomes myself... and their stab happy cousins the Whisper Gnomes. I'm not allowed to play Whisper Gnomes though. But I do often play Gnomes

Aesop

[KristovK]

Angelus, tell that to my buddy who's played nothing BUT gnomes for the past 20+ years of PnP gaming.

And lets not forget the millions of WoW players who have gnomes...nah...players don't want gnomes at all, no reason to include a core race that's existed since 1st Edition AD&D in DDO, even if they are a major race in the Eberron setting.

Mostly the stuff in the interview looks good, even the bit about 'kill 10 kobolds', which we're already doing in the Slayer requirements for the Wilderness areas....not to mention that whole conquest xp bonus... :)

4th Ed rules...meh..not so hot on that, making D&D far FAR too idiot friendly, it was never a game for those without some basic mental abilities..like being able to read, write and add more then 1+1..and get the correct answer 99% of the time.

[Hammerdrop]

- Find a reward for 2250 Favor - My idea (you may hate it) A new server, only available to 2250 Favorers' that gives you an automatic 32 point build on your first character, has a boosted XP table and lowers costs accross the board at all vendors. There would be nobody on the server who didn't know what they were doing and it would alot easier to expirment with different builds. Plus there would not be very much crowding.


Ya know Trugaard,

I was with you pretty much up until this. We already have enough of that "eliteness" feeling now on the current servers. Giving a special server to those with 2250 favor may not be a good thing. Just think of all the kiddies coming to the forums to proclaim " I MADE IT!" I am on the L33T server! LOL. Sure, I am just a casual gamer, taken a few breaks from the game but have been here with DDO since beta, (is that a l33t comment? , hehe), but due to my altitis I have yet to reach 1750 favor. I am looking forward to it and hope to have it by mod7 so my monk will be a 32point build. I agree there should be more rewards for favor, 400 to 1750 stretch is a long way, heh.
I actually like part of your suggestion with a small tweak. Maybe unlock 32pt builds at 1750 on your server, and at 2250 unlock the 32pt build on ALL servers for your account maybe? That way, if you find the non-elites a little taxing on your server you can switch to a new server and test the waters there?
I don't post much but lurk alot. Maybe I ramble too much to post, hehe. But just my opinion.

FSeven
Khyber:D

[Hvymetal]

- Find a reward for 2250 Favor - My idea (you may hate it) A new server, only available to 2250 Favorers' that gives you an automatic 32 point build on your first character, has a boosted XP table and lowers costs accross the board at all vendors. There would be nobody on the server who didn't know what they were doing and it would alot easier to expirment with different builds. Plus there would not be very much crowding.


Wow, ummm no.

[msheaf1]

I'm a little weary of 4th Ed rules without actually knowing how they will work with our current characters. I have no time to re-roll my characters to fit a new set of rules or to capitalize on all the benefits a new set of rules has to offer. We can always start with small changes and pick and choose the best additions to the online version.

I believe they have already stated that you really can't convert from 3.5 to 4.0.
I know my group is pretty much decided that we aren't intereseted in going to 4.0. I have no desire to buy more books let alone buying the main books then more books to get monks, druids, bards, etc etc (i.e. things that should always be in the base D&D rules). They are taking some much of what made the game be D&D (and not some other RPG) and removing it. I have nothing against other systems (as I have played many over the years) but if I wanted to play them I would.

[RazorrX]

Sounds pretty cool so far, I will hold judgement on the new quest types.

The conversion to 4.0 is expected in my point. DDO is the MMO for D&D, thus it needs to reflect the current game. Right now that is 3.5, in June that will be 4.0.

The problem I have seen is the game designers have stated that you can not simply convert a 3.5 character to 4.0. They even said that they were really lying about converting from 2 to 3, and that this would be even more difficult. I had thought that maybe the 4.0 would be a game expansion or a seperate game if it was that hard.

Gnomes - I never play gnomes, think they are kind of creepy and if I were one I would lie and tell people that I was a halfling. ;)

That being said, Keith Baker has stated that everything that is D&D is in Eberron. Thus if 4.0 has Tieflings and Dragonborn as Core races, so does Eberron. (In fact he has stated that they are already IN Eberron). The Gnome race is gone as a core race in 4.0 (But they have a Lair!). Keith said that he felt that Eberron got Gnomes right, and so he feels that it will still support them as a playable race.

I look forward to what the upgrade to 4.0 brings to DDO.

[JayDubya]

Plus there would not be very much crowding.

Wow. I think that's one of the first times I've heard someone complaining that DDO was too crowded. Interesting.

[moorewr]

Plus there would not be very much crowding.

Wow. I think that's one of the first times I've heard someone complaining that DDO was too crowded. Interesting.

Well, he said I'd hate the idea, and lo, he was right...

[Heladron]

Please do not put any of those quests where you go out and kill 10 kobolds in our glorious game.

I came to DDO from THAT kind of game because this wasn't THAT kind of game. I gave LotRO a try, but to me it was just WoW with Hobbits. I couldn't even make it through the whole trial period. You have something that is holding my interest and many other peoples interest. Please just keep doing that. Companies always do better when they do what they are good at.

Dungeons and Dragons is about adventure and there is no adventure in killing 10 kobolds for the sake of killing 10 kobolds.

I know there are already quests like that in the game and it's somewhat sad, but adding more quests like that just smells of pandering. Let the WoW and WoW wannabes have their quests like that.

Quests like the Missing Ward and Sewer Rescue are great solo experiences. They're short quests you can run in no time at all. Why not go that route and make a bunch of short quests.

[moorewr]

I would really like to see more short high-level quests.

There's a reason everyone runs the Reaver 40 times per character beyond the reward v risk quotient. It's the only thing in the upper levels you can go form up, hit hard and be off doing something else 1/2 an hour later.

Devil Assault is a step in the right direction - I'd like the next module to have twice as many quests, and have lots of short stuff in there. And I'd like to see new side-quests put in the Orchard and the Vale.

That's right. I LIKE the orchard, but there's not enough to do in there. Explorers are ok, but they aren't quests... though you could do 15 minute plus side runs in caves etc if you wanted to.. make them worthwhile and they'd stand in for short quests...

[Sem34]

Why is everyone so upset about Kill X of X type quests when we have a version of this in the game now anyway… Slayers is just a different take on that type of quests… They could be bringing the slayer numbers down and giving awards besides exp to players that adventure in the Slayer areas… I posted an idea on this a month or so ago in support of adventure areas giving more then just exp slayer quest… the Devs could do so much with those areas and I think they are looking at that as another time sink for solo type players / players that don’t have a lot of time to adventure (and don’t say well I can complete.. blah blah blah quest in X time, that’s you and not them) … the same player base that pay to play DDO as much as you and I.

Gnomes if they get added great, if not great don’t really care… never liked them as a DM never liked them as a player… they where (in my view) just in the middle of Dwarf and Halflings. Now with that said I would like choices… players need choices… get Half-Orc, Half-Elf, and Kalashtar in the game...

Monks… about time… now where are Druids

[Dirtkicker]

Technically that can be said about any of the dragon marks...

But they don't... Gnomes do...Gnomes were giving a deep & rich story in Eberron...They are a Huge part of Eberron..which this game is based on..

Kate says that Dragonborn will be looked at vs the way they fit in Eberron, Gnomes should be treated the same.

Very true and i agree 100&#37;. But i feel there is a much bigger reason to add Gnomes...Gnomes have been a part of D&D since the start....

I am under the assumption that most of the DDO subscribers have been playing PnP since, at the very least, Advance D&D. I wasnt to keen on changing my playing style when the 3.X rule set was released, but it turned out to be pretty cool, but this rule set still included Gnomes. Even though the Gnomes have been demoted to a demi-class in 4.0, DDO is not based on 4.0. So, i dont think the new set of rules should be a factor in the decision to add Gnomes.

Also, I would like to say that i absolutely love where DDO has been going with the development of the game and their interaction with the community. This has been the only MMO for me because of the style of play DDO offers and the players in the game. But, the main reason i play DDO is because if feels like PnP and it brings a lot of nostalgia from my PnP days.

So, my vote is to bring Gnomes into the mix even though there might not be much to differentiate them from other player characters...let the chips fall where they may, but bring me back my uber Gnome thief/acrobat/illusionist...:D

[salmag]

Ok I'll be the first to say it then. I'd like dragonborn as a playable race in DDO. There now you have heard it. It might even happen some day but I doubt it'll be anytime soon. More likely they will add eberron specific races first.

As far as 4th edition (it's NOT 4.0; they have NO plans for a 4.5 so calling it 4.0 is misleading. 3.5 was just a way to clear up and streamline rules that weren't playtested enough) I like almost everything I've seen about it. However I don't see it translating into DDO. What I predict is something like what Everquest did: a second game. DDO2 for lack of a better term. DDO1 would be more closely 3.5ish like what we have now, and DDO2 would be pure 4th edition. I really don't see any other way to do it unless they try and cram 4th edition rules into a 3.5 shell. Square Peg - Round Hole. not gonna work.

It was only 3rd Edition before it became 3.5. My calling it 4.0 is not misleading. What you're complaining about is just semantics.

For them to even consider LOOKING at other races before bringing in Eberron specific core classes is not a good idea.

Just my 2cp.

[Dungnmaster001]

It was only 3rd Edition before it became 3.5. My calling it 4.0 is not misleading. What you're complaining about is just semantics.

For them to even consider LOOKING at other races before bringing in Eberron specific core classes is not a good idea.

Just my 2cp.

True it's semantics, however calling it 4.0 implies they intend to make a revision at some point which is why I say it's misleading. I probably overstated it and overreacted so I'm sorry.

I just get tired of hearing all the nonsense about how 4th edition is just a marketing scam to suck more money out of people. It's not even out yet and people are suggesting a 4.5 or even 5th edition in a couple years. They assume WotC is turning DnD into something like their Magic the Gathering line with a new core set every year (or however often it comes out).

I fully expect a 5th edition in about 10 years. Some will cry and moan then just like they are now but it's both sound business and (my opinion) good for the game to get periodic updates as long as the updates make the game fun it's all right with me.

Ok I've hijacked the thread long enough with my little pet peeve/rant. Please continue with your regularly scheduled programming :)

[SanguineDarkness]

been here from day 1 as well. I think turbine should start adding more classes/races.
Like the Tieflings, Aasimar, Gnomes, Half-Orcs, Half-Elves and more true to Eberron/dnd lore. Then druids would be cool as would monks. We're getting monks though... thats good but in module seven... I'm sorry Turbine but this is disappointing I heard there'd be Half-Orcs and Half-Elves in module seven. But I guess only the monk thing is true

[Vordax]

Why is everyone so down on this idea? You don't have to do these quests if you don't want to. There are a lot of people out there that have played other MMO's and like the fact that you can solo your way through the levels (as a newb). These quests give these new players something familiar to do.

Do you think Turbine just said hey lets waste our time and add these new quests because no ones going to do them? I am sure they are compiling data from exit interviews and trying to figure out ways to turn the trial players into a monthly subscription player. If these quests can increase the conversion rate by even a few percent I am sure it is well worth it.

More subscribers = more money for turbine = more content for us!

Vordax

PS Don't waste the time on gnomes, in 30 years of PNP I think I have partied with 1 gnome. Why waste dev time on another short race that doesn't really add anything to the game.

[Borror0]

Why is everyone so down on this idea? You don't have to do these quests if you don't want to. There are a lot of people out there that have played other MMO's and like the fact that you can solo your way through the levels (as a newb). These quests give these new players something familiar to do. [...]

More subscribers = more money for turbine = more content for us!

You fail to understand. What we like about DDO is that it's different from other MMOs.

We don't want lame quests where you're getting XP killing mobs. We're proud of not having any "bring me 10 spider hide" quest or any "go give this book to the librerian in the other village". What DDO is attracts or scare some people away. We get to play with those who stay. You'll notice, if you stay long enough on the forums, that we, as community, are really proudof what DDO currently is and try to scare those who aren't happy of it away.

We're not scared of change, we know that change is bad.

That kind of change will, liek you said, attract more player. However, their vision of an MMO isn't the same as ours. They would dislike DDO in its current form, so why try to please them? DDO is unique in that you get XP from completing a dungeon, not grinding a spot for hours. There are many ways to complete a dungeon in DDO, not many way to grind mobs in a MMO. What we don't want to see, is DDO going too close to other MMO. Shortly put, we don't want DDO to sell out to get more players.

DDO getting more players because it becomes a better game? Sure, but these quests don't go in that direction. They attract more people, yeah, but not the kind of player we'd want. Get the players who left for lack of content back. Get ones that left for the lack of new builds to try by adding feats, spells and enhancements. But don't sell out, DDO is fine as it is.

I love my DDO, I don't want to play WoW or LotRO... or I'd be playing WoW or LotRO.

[Vordax]

You fail to understand. What we like about DDO is that it's different from other MMOs.

We don't want lame quests where you're getting XP killing mobs. We're proud of not having any "bring me 10 spider hide" quest or any "go give this book to the librerian in the other village". What DDO is attracts or scare some people away. We get to play with those who stay. You'll notice, if you stay long enough on the forums, that we, as community, are really proudof what DDO currently is and try to scare those who aren't happy of it away.

We're not scared of change, we know that change is bad.

That kind of change will, liek you said, attract more player. However, their vision of an MMO isn't the same as ours. They would dislike DDO in its current form, so why try to please them? DDO is unique in that you get XP from completing a dungeon, not grinding a spot for hours. There are many ways to complete a dungeon in DDO, not many way to grind mobs in a MMO. What we don't want to see, is DDO going too close to other MMO. Shortly put, we don't want DDO to sell out to get more players.

DDO getting more players because it becomes a better game? Sure, but these quests don't go in that direction. They attract more people, yeah, but not the kind of player we'd want. Get the players who left for lack of content back. Get ones that left for the lack of new builds to try by adding feats, spells and enhancements. But don't sell out, DDO is fine as it is.

I love my DDO, I don't want to play WoW or LotRO... or I'd be playing WoW or LotRO.

I really like the fact that DDO is different and better than any other MMO also. But I also realize that DDO is a business and businesses need customers (new ones). I really don't want DDO to be like WOW, and it never will be.

They added the slayer/explorer quests and there were some of these same complaints when they were added. But I doubt that many now consider them bad.

Why don't we wait and see how they handle the new quests before we pass judgment on it.

Vordax

[Borror0]

But I also realize that DDO is a business and businesses need customers (new ones).

Yeah, but there is a line to not cross either.

It's like legalisation of pot. Any country would make tons of money out of its legalisation. From taxes, for the salary of those that harvest it, etc. However, if neither Canada nor USA has legalised it it's because they consider it's immoral for them to do so, even though there would be economical advantages to it (without mentioning that could also control its quality and make ure there aren't any junk in it).

Same thing, it'd be nice, economicly for DDO, but are they willing to sell out like that? I hope not.

I hope not, Codog said it once, he's Proud of DDO and so are the other developpers... I just hope that their plan of making it better doesn't include making DDO more LotRO-ish. That would sadden me, and a lot of the current playerbase. It might actually scare more current players than it'd attract new ones...


Why don't we wait and see how they handle the new quests before we pass judgment on it.

Well, we're giving feedback, saying we hate it. So they know. We hate it the way we were explain it. Now, if it's not that way... well we'll see. At worse, we're "forcing" them get out an explanation faster. At leastm they got our feedback.

[Eladrin]

They added the slayer/explorer quests and there were some of these same complaints when they were added. But I doubt that many now consider them bad.

Why don't we wait and see how they handle the new quests before we pass judgment on it.
The quests are much more like extensions off the collectables system, and are intended to supplement existing quests, not replace them.

Some are like: "An alchemist has placed a bounty on kobold thrower vials, as he would like to collect them for study." - he doesn't care where you get them, so long as you do. Others are more similar to the adventure area rare encounter quests - "The vile Witch Doctor Squagh of the Clan Tunnelworm den killed my uncle, the city guardsman! I demand retribution! Bring me back the badge that he stole from my beloved uncle!"

We've got some pretty cool options with this that can be used for very interesting things in the future. (What if that alchemist, after a certain number of people completed the miniquest and a long enough period of time was actually able to reproduce them and start selling them? Everyone wins! Except the kobolds.)

Edit: Note - examples are all hypothetical. ;)

[Coldin]

The quests are much more like extensions off the collectables system, and are intended to supplement existing quests, not replace them.

Some are like: "An alchemist has placed a bounty on kobold thrower vials, as he would like to collect them for study." - he doesn't care where you get them, so long as you do. Others are more similar to the adventure area rare encounter quests - "The vile Witch Doctor Squagh of the Clan Tunnelworm den killed my uncle, the city guardsman! I demand retribution! Bring me back the badge that he stole from my beloved uncle!"

We've got some pretty cool options with this that can be used for very interesting things in the future. (What if that alchemist, after a certain number of people completed the miniquest and a long enough period of time was actually able to reproduce them and start selling them? Everyone wins! Except the kobolds.)

Edit: Note - examples are all hypothetical. ;)

Eladrin, you bring to mind a very important question regarding this. Right now, in the Shroud, there are new "collectibles" that drop in bags when certain things die. Thing is, only one person can collect these and it's first come first serve. One thing I love about DDO is that players don't have to compete with their own party over loot.

If this new quest mechanic adds in these 1 person collectibles, I will be greatly disappointed.

[Ducky]

Just give me something to do that doesn't involve a dungeon.
Midevil slot machines or a made up card game, solo quests in explorable zones, crafting that doesn't involve raiding.. Just something. Give the game variety at this point and let the fanbois weep. You already have a core system in place with dungeons and quests, focus on side goals.
Please
Please
Please
Please

[MysticTheurge]

The quests are much more like extensions off the collectables system, and are intended to supplement existing quests, not replace them.

Some are like: "An alchemist has placed a bounty on kobold thrower vials, as he would like to collect them for study." - he doesn't care where you get them, so long as you do. Others are more similar to the adventure area rare encounter quests - "The vile Witch Doctor Squagh of the Clan Tunnelworm den killed my uncle, the city guardsman! I demand retribution! Bring me back the badge that he stole from my beloved uncle!"

We've got some pretty cool options with this that can be used for very interesting things in the future. (What if that alchemist, after a certain number of people completed the miniquest and a long enough period of time was actually able to reproduce them and start selling them? Everyone wins! Except the kobolds.)

See, now you describe it far better than the interview made it sound.

What we're essentially talking about here is Explorer Zone quests that aren't tied to a specific explorer zone.

That I can handle, I guess.

[Hakushi]

If these quests are tied to the explorer zones, maybe it's time to remove the lvl cap for high lvls in these zones. Having a high lvl character in your group will prevent advancement for you, but not for him, and because he's high lvl, he would get a penality to the xp, or no xp at all of course.

And please, the mistake was made in The Shroud, don't let more collectables that drop for only one person or any king of loot to follow that very bad idea. Also about the Shroud collectables, I saw the frustrating lvl cap again, why are you sticking on this, why a higher lvl is unable to advance a quest because he's... too high lvl. This is not the spirit of D&D.

[EspyLacopa]

The quests are much more like extensions off the collectables system, and are intended to supplement existing quests, not replace them.

Some are like: "An alchemist has placed a bounty on kobold thrower vials, as he would like to collect them for study." - he doesn't care where you get them, so long as you do. Others are more similar to the adventure area rare encounter quests - "The vile Witch Doctor Squagh of the Clan Tunnelworm den killed my uncle, the city guardsman! I demand retribution! Bring me back the badge that he stole from my beloved uncle!"

We've got some pretty cool options with this that can be used for very interesting things in the future. (What if that alchemist, after a certain number of people completed the miniquest and a long enough period of time was actually able to reproduce them and start selling them? Everyone wins! Except the kobolds.)

Edit: Note - examples are all hypothetical. ;)

That highlighted part? Pure awesome and win.

[iamsamoth0]

I don't really like the idea of areas that I cannot go 'back' to. I want to be able to look at my quest journal and see rows, and rows of "Completed".
I agonize about not leveling so I can get all 1500 kills in TR, at least the ceiling in Sorrowdusk is 11. I anguish at the idea of opening Chunkss' book to see many non-completed quests. Heck I lost 10 favor in the new module, Proof Elite brought me back in line. And my create button had been acting bizarly(sp), sometimes on, sometimes off.
I have spent practically all of my playtime in the last month just getting the 1500 on two mid-level toons. Holding off leveling, just to get that 10k xp. If I wasn't at the auctions, that is, or the event. Another story all together.
But, I love this game.
We have here a wonderfully rich, complex, intricate, and intriguing world to play with here. I think the level cap should be the most important. I guess we have really more than enough content to get people to 20th, right? Does someone even have an idea of a running complete xp available?
I know that how I play {level appropriate-ish thru elite} before advancing, holding off leveling until I have all quests and wilderness levels, etc. Which sometimes can takes weeks of trying. If there were a higher level cap then it might not be as centric. With no new content for awhile, then the xp pool would dry up some. Taking time at the lower levels to collect the xp, do the quests.
What is the level limit's now? It used to be 36. I mean how uber will we be then really? At the top end of the game now is a quasi-deity. And the game becomes so dependent on team play, it's sometimes difficult to have to PUG so often, my main guild has been warming up as of late, but it is still very difficult to do specific things with an experienced group which becomes life/death vital. I thought I was broke before with the buying of cakes and cookies as of late, but, now with the xp debt shifted to equipment damage, I forsee being very broke. Not sure if I am thrilled with that change, I would rather it have been optional, I'll take xp debt please. I'm slowly digging myself into a hole on my newbie server Thelanis.

Guh to much typing...

[greystone306]

Just give me something to do that doesn't involve a dungeon.
Midevil slot machines or a made up card game, solo quests in explorable zones, crafting that doesn't involve raiding.. Just something. Give the game variety at this point and let the fanbois weep. You already have a core system in place with dungeons and quests, focus on side goals.
Please
Please
Please
Please

Well theres already seamus luckypenny in the Leaky Dingy and the 2 people for games of chance in trhe phoenix.... so your first request is kind of already in..

[cdbd3rd]

You fail to understand. What we like about DDO is that it's different from other MMOs.

We don't want lame quests where you're getting XP killing mobs. We're proud of not having any "bring me 10 spider hide" quest or any "go give this book to the librerian in the other village". What DDO is attracts or scare some people away. We get to play with those who stay. You'll notice, if you stay long enough on the forums, that we, as community, are really proudof what DDO currently is and try to scare those who aren't happy of it away.

We're not scared of change, we know that change is bad.

That kind of change will, liek you said, attract more player. However, their vision of an MMO isn't the same as ours. They would dislike DDO in its current form, so why try to please them? DDO is unique in that you get XP from completing a dungeon, not grinding a spot for hours. There are many ways to complete a dungeon in DDO, not many way to grind mobs in a MMO. What we don't want to see, is DDO going too close to other MMO. Shortly put, we don't want DDO to sell out to get more players.

DDO getting more players because it becomes a better game? Sure, but these quests don't go in that direction. They attract more people, yeah, but not the kind of player we'd want. Get the players who left for lack of content back. Get ones that left for the lack of new builds to try by adding feats, spells and enhancements. But don't sell out, DDO is fine as it is.

I love my DDO, I don't want to play WoW or LotRO... or I'd be playing WoW or LotRO.

QFFT! Well said, Borr.


edit:

/Still hunting for sneak peek viddie of monks. ;)

[EspyLacopa]

I don't really like the idea of areas that I cannot go 'back' to. I want to be able to look at my quest journal and see rows, and rows of "Completed".
I agonize about not leveling so I can get all 1500 kills in TR, at least the ceiling in Sorrowdusk is 11. I anguish at the idea of opening Chunkss' book to see many non-completed quests. Heck I lost 10 favor in the new module, Proof Elite brought me back in line. And my create button had been acting bizarly(sp), sometimes on, sometimes off.
I have spent practically all of my playtime in the last month just getting the 1500 on two mid-level toons. Holding off leveling, just to get that 10k xp. If I wasn't at the auctions, that is, or the event. Another story all together.
But, I love this game.
We have here a wonderfully rich, complex, intricate, and intriguing world to play with here. I think the level cap should be the most important. I guess we have really more than enough content to get people to 20th, right? Does someone even have an idea of a running complete xp available?
I know that how I play {level appropriate-ish thru elite} before advancing, holding off leveling until I have all quests and wilderness levels, etc. Which sometimes can takes weeks of trying. If there were a higher level cap then it might not be as centric. With no new content for awhile, then the xp pool would dry up some. Taking time at the lower levels to collect the xp, do the quests.
What is the level limit's now? It used to be 36. I mean how uber will we be then really? At the top end of the game now is a quasi-deity. And the game becomes so dependent on team play, it's sometimes difficult to have to PUG so often, my main guild has been warming up as of late, but it is still very difficult to do specific things with an experienced group which becomes life/death vital. I thought I was broke before with the buying of cakes and cookies as of late, but, now with the xp debt shifted to equipment damage, I forsee being very broke. Not sure if I am thrilled with that change, I would rather it have been optional, I'll take xp debt please. I'm slowly digging myself into a hole on my newbie server Thelanis.

Guh to much typing...

Errrrr

An actual Quasi-Diety would kick our ass so hard. . .They typically have at least either 20 class levels and/or 20 HD of outsider. Toss in upgrades from just being in DDO. . .

At best, we fight someone who thinks they're a diety. If you can, check out the Divine rules: here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#rank0) (link is to the online d20 SRD section on Divine rules)

[iamsamoth0]

Errrrr

An actual Quasi-Diety would kick our ass so hard. . .They typically have at least either 20 class levels and/or 20 HD of outsider. Toss in upgrades from just being in DDO. . .

At best, we fight someone who thinks they're a diety. If you can, check out the Divine rules: here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#rank0) (link is to the online d20 SRD section on Divine rules)

mmmm, k...
I apologize for incorrect terminology. What ever it is, it is.

[Shamguard]

The quests are much more like extensions off the collectables system, and are intended to supplement existing quests, not replace them.

Some are like: "An alchemist has placed a bounty on kobold thrower vials, as he would like to collect them for study." - he doesn't care where you get them, so long as you do. Others are more similar to the adventure area rare encounter quests - "The vile Witch Doctor Squagh of the Clan Tunnelworm den killed my uncle, the city guardsman! I demand retribution! Bring me back the badge that he stole from my beloved uncle!"

We've got some pretty cool options with this that can be used for very interesting things in the future. (What if that alchemist, after a certain number of people completed the miniquest and a long enough period of time was actually able to reproduce them and start selling them? Everyone wins! Except the kobolds.)

Edit: Note - examples are all hypothetical. ;)


Just so long as I don't have to deliver a cask of ale and keep it away from all the drunk dwarfs.

....

[xynxie]

For all those elitist and those that seem to actually think they live in ebbron when they log in.....I would suggest you stay with PnP.

Have any of you read a Stephen King book....THEN watched a movie BASED on that book? Not quite accurate eh.

Technology has limitaions associated with cost/availability and current limitations....hence the reason Lukas reedited the original 3 Star Wars recently as opposed to doing all the effects at the time....the technology has evolved dramatically and will do so for on line gaming as well.

Most folks in this thread act as if doing a MOD is just whipping a few lines of this and that and boom...its a done deal......you folks need to find out a bit of what it takes to make a program such as this work then explain what you want vs need.

Like a bunch of kids. you tell your parents over and over you want and expect but you could care less the cost to them as long as you get it.

Technology vs Imagination. PnP let your imagination run wild....but in a MMO understand you must limit it to whats available....and whats available cost money...and for money you need folks to come in and play in huge numbers....not the 100 or so of us who troll the boards saying we hate new ideas.

[Trugaard]

Well I am not at all elitist and actually find it a bit offensive to be called such. I don't actually have 2250 I am just around 1800 and I am a casual player who stuck to my character and played only him until I reached that plateau. The idea of another server with the things I mentioned lends itself to low manned groups. The low vendor costs coupled with the players eperience (not attitude) would be exciting. All that said, of course that has flaws and I see them, all I am saying is I'd like to see a 2250 (or comparable) reward of some sort. Maybe it would be a teleportation system that woud allow you to move quickly from anywhere in Stormreach or something of the like (use your imagination) just think it's a goal that should be out there.

I actually love PUGs but the reality is that there are alot of us with 1750, I am a casual player and I seemed to reach it. The reason I brought it up wasn't so I could dogged by the Mod 7 hating, Turbine bashing, group of negative adventurers I thought it would provoke you all to give your opinion on a new Favor benchmark. So thanks for being consistent.

PEACE OUT

[DrAwkward]

Just so long as I don't have to deliver a cask of ale and keep it away from all the drunk dwarfs.

....
Or nosey halflings? Agreed.

[iamsamoth0]

In a place hopefully folks will see it.

A reward that allows you to log in on a special server, and live test builds.
Or jump into fighting with a 7rog/2 sor/3 ftr build with any gear and consumables, expendables you want.
Throw wide the golden doors of ye' DB spreadsheet, O' Turbine!
A romper room of sorts for 10 min of play, if need be.

[Elfboy]

I heard nothing about Flurry of Blows. The cornerstone ability of the Monk, without it, they won't be as fun to play.

[MysticTheurge]

I heard nothing about Flurry of Blows. The cornerstone ability of the Monk, without it, they won't be as fun to play.

Flurry of Blows was on the feat list of the example monk in the latest video. Though it didn't contain any details on how that ability will work.

[Elfboy]

Flurry of Blows was on the feat list of the example monk in the latest video. Though it didn't contain any details on how that ability will work.
Well, at least they got it. But a feat?! IT'S WHAT MAKES A MONK A MONK! And where are the half orcs and elves? :p

[Aesop]

Well, at least they got it. But a feat?! IT'S WHAT MAKES A MONK A MONK! And where are the half orcs and elves? :p

well Feature I assume as it is a class Feature of Monk.

its all how you define things a Feature is really just a Feat that is only available to certain classes and/or Races

Aesop

[MysticTheurge]

Well, at least they got it. But a feat?! IT'S WHAT MAKES A MONK A MONK! And where are the half orcs and elves? :p

It's on the feat list the same way Sneak Attack is on a Rogue's feat list and Rage is on a Barbarian's feat list.

[Borcan]

Ok the Monk animations are cool yeah yeah.....BUT props goes to the interviewer running the camera that made sure EVERY TIME he went from a shot of the laptop back to kate; he panned from her chest to her face. I mean could he have made that ANY more obvious?? I think not. WTG TTH guy, you win camera perv of the month award!

[moorewr]

Ok the Monk animations are cool yeah yeah.....BUT props goes to the interviewer running the camera that made sure EVERY TIME he went from a shot of the laptop back to kate; he panned from her chest to her face. I mean could he have made that ANY more obvious?? I think not. WTG TTH guy, you win camera perv of the month award!

:confused::confused::confused:

Did we watch the same video?

[Pellegro]

I hope monks come soon.

You can always tell when the new content is wearing thin ... the boards get feisty.

Things are gettin' feisty.

[query]

NOW NOW NOW!

(I have no idea what you are referring about when you say we are getting feisty. I'm just being an impatient brat after ohhhh, two-plus years :p)

[Callowyn]

Gnomes, Half-Elves and Half-Orcs...

How can a game derived from AD&D even consider itself to be a descendant of that incredible legacy if it precludes those core races?
I'll admit that my group and I stuck with the 1st edition rules until about a year before the 3rd edition came out, before making the move to 2nd edition. We refuse to move to 3rd/3.5/whatever it's called now, simply due to the overcomplications in running what should be a fairly simple and fun game. Basically, I will be glad to see monks come in, and hope that the races are not forgotten, as variety is the spice of life, both on our earth as well as in the AD&D/D&D realms. I find it hard to picture a party without at least one gnome or half-elf in it, from my 25 years of DM'ing the same ongoing campaign.

As for gnomes not having a valid place, the statement obviously comes from a person who has never seen a good roleplayer in a pnp game living it up while playing a gnome.

Anyways, there's a spot of my 2 cents on races.

As for quests, in all the years I have been DM, the groups have all been on about every conceivable type of quest, in all climates, and yes, there was a yeti or 2 ;) and some were to collect things for village crafters, or to deliver a sensitive package, and as long as they are handled properly, there's no reason they can't fit into DDO. Solo quests also have their place, but no single character should be able to cover every base, not even the famous Elminster of Shadowdale. That said, rogues, warriors, priests and mage-types should all have some special sorts of solo quests to go on, such as finding a lost spellbook of some famous mage, only to learn it has rotted, leaving only a couple of high-level spells. That sort of thing can be very fun, and givs everyone something they can do. The true strength and spirit of AD&D/D&D however was in group play, and to ignore that does a serious injustice to the man that brought us this legacy.

[Hvymetal]

Half Orcs and Half Elves are supposed to be coming, gnomes, well as far as I understand they are not going to be in 4.0 either so who knows....

[Xaxx]

meh

[Hvymetal]

meh
aye, Gnomes are not a game-breaker for me either way...

[Aesop]

aye, Gnomes are not a game-breaker for me either way...

I would like to see them personally ... but that's just me. I like the little sobs


Aesop

[Hyldr]

Please dont turn this game into WoW or LOTRo.
Be more inventive than "Kill 10 Kobolds - Now kill 20 Kobolds!"

Isn't this essentially what the slayer objective in explorer areas is? Well, we don't get rewards for it, other than xp and the occasional rare encounter, but imo it's about the same thing.

[Gunga]

I have to say... these 2 statements upset me..




Why does it upset me?

They are saying no to gnomes.... and using the 4th edition PhB as a possible excuse not to add them...but they are using the excuse on seeing how dragonborn fit in ebberon to decide on how and if they will add them...

Gnomes are a Huge Part of Eberron.. they are a Dragon Marked family! they should definitely be included in a MMO based on Eberron.. and they will still be in 4th edition.. they are not going to just take out the gnomes in eberron in 4th edition.. they are to deep into the story of eberron.

But they will wait and see how they fit in eberron for dragonborn?..

So they are using the 4th edition Phb for one.. but not the other?

anyone see anything wrong with those 2 statements?

*By the way.. I am angry about no gnomes in this game :D

Build a halfling wizard and pretend hes fat.

[el_diablo]

Half Orcs and Half Elves are supposed to be coming, gnomes, well as far as I understand they are not going to be in 4.0 either so who knows....

I was able to go to a 4th edition preveiw event and play an encounter and it does rock. Information has been released on the wizards web that gnomes are now "monsters", check youtube for some video interviews. And I am not sure but I think in PnP d&d the flurry of blows is a X/ per day ability. So whether it is an enhancement or feat chain in ddo it still follows the other classes ability to customize your toon just how you want. I can't wait I have been hoarding monk weapons for a long time so I will finally get to use them on my new monk.

[moorewr]

Build a halfling wizard and pretend hes fat.

Bwahahhahahhahha!

No, YOU make a dwarf thief and make him shave his beard!

[Merconas]

1. Gnomes: I like gnomes. I understand they are tough and all that jazz but I still like them. I also understand that WotC is not adding them as playable in 4.0... that's their mistake.


WoTC's "mistake" was trying to balance the game, and blowing racial abilities available to characters way out of proportion in the first place. Racial abilities were secondary to--and dependent on--level advancement in the original game; that's balance. As far as I'm concerned; DDO did it right in moving Drow up to an available race after achieving 400 favor. Something which fits with the original "DM's discretion". The original game was fine right up until somebody decided to add 35 "optional races"; which then became an excuse for wandering mob's of charlatan adventurer's :D

cheers,

Merconas out.

..or perhap's it was just discontinuing the release of 2nd edition content.

...Gnomes would be a good choice for the 1000 favor mark.

....32 point builds should not be reserved for 1750 favor in my opinion; but its allready done. Perhap's you could add in a 30 point build after achieving 650, or 700 favor.

[Strakeln]

WoTC's "mistake" was trying to balance the game, and blowing racial abilities available to characters way out of proportion in the first place. Racial abilities were secondary to--and dependent on--level advancement in the original game; that's balance. As far as I'm concerned; DDO did it right in moving Drow up to an available race after achieving 400 favor. Something which fits with the original "DM's discretion". The original game was fine right up until somebody decided to add 35 "optional races"; which then became an excuse for wandering mob's of charlatan adventurer's :D

cheers,

Merconas out.

..or perhap's it was just discontinuing the release of 2nd edition content.

...Gnomes would be a good choice for the 1000 favor mark.

....32 point builds should not be reserved for 1750 favor in my opinion; but its allready done. Perhap's you could add in a 30 point build after achieving 650, or 700 favor.No resurrecting month old threads that look like new news!