[I don't like the new quest.]

[parvo]

[I don't like the new devil quest.]

[Vinos]

Yeah that last wave is "challenging" for levels 6-8.

[Hvymetal]

Yeah that last wave is "challenging" for levels 6-8.Challenging is one word for it:) Ran it the first time yesterday in a party of 5-8's, wiped on the last wave:(

[Vinos]

Challenging is one word for it:) Ran it the first time yesterday in a party of 5-8's, wiped on the last wave:(

Yeah if you don't have the ideal party make-up and are all at least level 7 you'll get smoked by that last wave more often than not. At least the waves are good XP you'll get regardless. You could almost make a case for farming up until the last wave.

[Lithic]

Good ol' parvo. Why be civil and polite when you can just throw insults?

Some constructive suggestions could have included:
1) Raising the quest level
2) Putting a warning that on elite this quest is NOT lvl 8 (shocking-and humorous-results when a party of lvl 10's discovers this is not the case)

[Vinos]

2) Putting a warning that on elite this quest is NOT lvl 8 (shocking-and humorous-results when a party of lvl 10's discovers this is not the case)

It's on the login screen.

[Razvan]

It's on the login screen.


In all fairness, first time we went in at the live event no one knew...

But, again, in all fairness...go in on elite with a party of lev 6 chars...say "Oh ****, it's level 18...recall!"....recall...
15 to 30 seconds later you are back in on normal!

[MysticTheurge]

It's not as if this is the only monster or group of monsters with a CR significantly over the "level" of the quest.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Yeah if you don't have the ideal party make-up and are all at least level 7 you'll get smoked by that last wave more often than not. At least the waves are good XP you'll get regardless. You could almost make a case for farming up until the last wave.

I didn't notice that the waves were handing out XP along the way. If so, that's pretty cool.

I did finally notice this with the Shroud last night. (I'm an idiot, I know.) Seems like I must have racked up 20k in "optional" XP before we beat the raid and got the 20k "standard" XP.

The Shroud is some serious happy farming ground-- ingredients and XP. If I was a do-nothing college kid (instead of a do-nothing career professional) I'd ride that sucker as fast as I could get back in. Like a roller coaster on an off day.

[Heladron]

Ha ha.

As soon as the quest opened on Saturday night, a guildie and I went in on elite. Just the two of us, thinking we were going to have a fun time and thinking we were in for some level 16 smack down on a level 8 quest. Well, the first wave went pretty good. With maxed, empowered blade barriers they were going down pretty easy during the first wave. Wave two came and it took no longer than 5 seconds for wipe. It was some bad timing due to the BBs going down just as the spawns came; well that and the lag. There must have been at least 5 Bezekira, a bunch of devils and there's no way you're going to have a very easy time with a party never mind two, but we had a good laugh.

[sirgog]

OMG who called The Shroud elite only level 19, there's 4 CR33 Lieutenants omg we're all going to die!


Sorry, had to get that out of the system. IMO this quest should have been graded at 8 on norm, 13 hard, 18 elite.

[Arianrhod]

In all fairness, first time we went in at the live event no one knew...

But, again, in all fairness...go in on elite with a party of lev 6 chars...say "Oh ****, it's level 18...recall!"....recall...
15 to 30 seconds later you are back in on normal!

That's not really the issue - the issue is that on normal, you face waves of cr 8-11 chain-casting trog shamans, with no rez shrine and no way to reenter. IF your whole group has House P buffs and finishes before the buffs run out, it's doable by a mixed group of 5-8s, but it really isn't level 6 on normal.

[parvo]

It's not as if this is the only monster or group of monsters with a CR significantly over the "level" of the quest.

It is the only quest on Normal difficulty with a large group of unavoidable mobs that have CR 2-6 higher than the quest. No other quest does that.

[moorewr]

In fairness to Parvo, if he found this out on his permadeath character, he has a lot more to be upset about than the rest of us. :rolleyes:

[parvo]

In fairness to Parvo, if he found this out on his permadeath character, he has a lot more to be upset about than the rest of us. :rolleyes:

We do hard quests all the time. We like it that way. We accept that sometimes we'll die. That's the way it is. But we get really excited when new content is launched at a level we normally attain. That excitement turned to dissapointment when we realized how bad this one is mis-labeled. It is, by far, not even close, the worst mis-level-labeled Normal quest below 11.

Turbine is the DM, and as such has an obligation to provide content that is challenging but do-able for characters in the correct level range. For the record, we had:

6 Sorc
7 Fighter
6/1 Paladin/Cleric
5/1 Ranger/Fighter
7 Cleric
5 Wizard

By all accounts a solid party and good players. All lost except the sorc who was able to find a Dimension Door at the last second. Lost not because of poor teamwork, unpreparedness, inattention or anything like that. [eaten by cube]

[Ron]

IMO, this is what twinking and rampant item inflation have done to the game. The devs are (over)reacting to the fact that people are blowing through thier content (because they have equipment they should never have at the level they are) by making the new dungeons harder. In this case they labelled a quest as level 6, which, if it had been put into the game at launch, would have been more like 8 or even 10.

It's exactly what I've been saying for the last year. I said the same thing about PiitP when it went in. I could say the same thing about any number of dungeons that have been added recently.

It's a dissapointing trend. The effect is to force players into twinking or be locked out of new content. The correct reaction by the devs should be none at all, IOW, to keep the dungeon difficulty classification system the same as when the game launched. So what if some players blow through content? That's going to happen anyway! Keep the game accessable to the casual non-twinking non-powergamer player, as it was when the game launched.

It's too bad the devs went this direction, IMO. In many many ways this game has gotten much better (and it was already an incredible game when it launched). But in this one respect it has declined.

[Dane_McArdy]

We do hard quests all the time. We like it that way. We accept that sometimes we'll die. That's the way it is. But we get really excited when new content is launched at a level we normally attain. That excitement turned to dissapointment when we realized how bad this one is mis-labeled. It is, by far, not even close, the worst mis-level-labeled Normal quest below 11.

Turbine is the DM, and as such has an obligation to provide content that is challenging but do-able for characters in the correct level range. For the record, we had:

6 Sorc
7 Fighter
6/1 Paladin/Cleric
5/1 Ranger/Fighter
7 Cleric
5 Wizard

By all accounts a solid party and good players. All lost except the sorc who was able to find a Dimension Door at the last second. Lost not because of poor teamwork, unpreparedness, inattention or anything like that. [eaten by cube]

So, the moment you don't like something, you think calling someone stupid is going to help?

[MysticTheurge]

the worst mis-level-labeled Normal quest below 11.

You keep pointing out that it's "normal" but it seems kind of obvious to me that our standard understanding of what Normal/Hard/Elite is doesn't apply to this quest.

All we know is that "normal" is level 6, "hard" is 12 and "elite is 18.

But you know what else is level six? Irestone Inlet on Elite, or Halls of Shan-to-kor on Hard.

There's no way to know whether this level 6 is supposed to be one of those or something more like "Iron Mines: Freeing Atchka" because the difficulties are all different and wonky.

[Oreg]

Regardless of the OP's points - the title was rude and childishly insulting.

[parvo]

IMO, this is what twinking and rampant item inflation have done to the game. The devs are (over)reacting to the fact that people are blowing through thier content (because they have equipment they should never have at the level they are) by making the new dungeons harder. In this case they labelled a quest as level 6, which, if it had been put into the game at launch, would have been more like 8 or even 10.

It's exactly what I've been saying for the last year. I said the same thing about PiitP when it went in. I could say the same thing about any number of dungeons that have been added recently.

It's a dissapointing trend. The effect is to force players into twinking or be locked out of new content. The correct reaction by the devs should be none at all, IOW, to keep the dungeon difficulty classification system the same as when the game launched. So what if some players blow through content? That's going to happen anyway! Keep the game accessable to the casual non-twinking non-powergamer player, as it was when the game launched.

It's too bad the devs went this direction, IMO. In many many ways this game has gotten much better (and it was already an incredible game when it launched). But in this one respect it has declined.

I don't think this has anything to do with twinking. I'd put a mid-level non-twinked PD party against a twinked zerg-pug any day. Back when the "normal" players were crying about Proof is in the Poison, we were putting non-twinked PD parties together and completing it without dying. In fact, one PD player even solo'ed it. I don't even complain about Searing Heights, because in my opinion, a well played party of level 5-7's could complete it without prior knowledge.

My guess? The quest was originally designed for level ~18 and someone said "what about the lower levels?" At that point it was mathmatically scaled down (like hard and elite in reverse) and launched without further testing or consideration.

[Quarion]

Turbine values feedback, but not insults.