To all the Non-Believers!

[brshelton]

To all those who say UMD is impossible with a 6 starting CHA. To all those who say you can't hit a workable UMD as a Dwarf without devoting stat points to it. You are wrong. This is with only a command item no cartouche or gloves.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7113/screenshot00041qa1.jpg

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2118/screenshot00040zs0.jpg

[Ghoste]

so +2 from charisma bonus, +2 from command item, +4 from greater heroism, looks like you have a skill boost going (+5?)...that makes +9 misc modifier. How do you get the other 10 points for the +19 misc mod I see listed on your skills panel?

[brshelton]

+6 from crafted 3rd tier goggles and 2 from head of good fortune

[studentx]

You might want to paint shop that second pic. Yo.

[brshelton]

oops missed it thanks editing

[MysticTheurge]

9.5 ranks
+2 charisma
+2 command
+4 GH
+5 skill boost
+6 shroud item
+2 head of good fortune

Nice.

Of course, that is with a +2 tome and two high level raid items and one 20-boost.

[Oreg]

One little nagging question.....

With UMD that high and ranger levels to boot, why do you need to carry 400 cure serious pots? Wands are alot cheaper. :)

Otherwise, nice job getting it that high.

[MysticTheurge]

With UMD that high and ranger levels to boot, why do you need to carry 400 cure serious pots? Wands are alot cheaper. :)

Wands only stack to 50 (charges) per inventory slot?

[brshelton]

One little nagging question.....

With UMD that high and ranger levels to boot, why do you need to carry 400 cure serious pots? Wands are alot cheaper. :)

Otherwise, nice job getting it that high.

wands also cant be used when madstoned raged which I try to be 100% of the time. Believe me I face the wands vs. pots cost battle EVERY day. Considering in a long gaming session I can use 1000 pots I face it A LOT.

MT the head is just reaver loot which is very easy to get. And the goggles to second tier are also very easy. 3rd tier not so much.....

[Kreaper]

Another reason to carry pot AND wands is that you can alternate shots of each when you are in deep stinky stuff and you will heal twice as fast.

[Vizzini]

Might be showing my newbness here - but Items with Command on them add to UMD boost? I thought it just up'd your turn ability and made you less able to sneak..

You mean to tell me Command Items actually have a DECENT use?!?!



+2 command

[DJNsomniac]

I call HACKS!

[brshelton]

Might be showing my newbness here - but Items with Command on them add to UMD boost? I thought it just up'd your turn ability and made you less able to sneak..

You mean to tell me Command Items actually have a DECENT use?!?!

yes +2 to all cha based skils AKA haggle, umd etc. And a robe of command is ML 1

[MysticTheurge]

Might be showing my newbness here - but Items with Command on them add to UMD boost? I thought it just up'd your turn ability and made you less able to sneak..

You mean to tell me Command Items actually have a DECENT use?!?!

Command is a +2 bonus to charisma skills.

But it doesn't stack with other skill bonus items. So if you have the Cartouche or anything similar that provides a (competence) bonus to UMD, command will be pointless.

[query]

I got a 6 Cha starting WF Wiz/rogue and he is UMD 28 only a +1 tome found no head of good fortune no madstone ever found and he leaves the cartouche at home (or bank.) Yeah I now got that wizzie green helm, but the idea is it IS possible to use UMD with the "gimped" cha classes and no investment into the stat at creation. No way did he have instatomes as he was my first and a 28 point char remember.


I find it ironic that I can kill devils better than gnolls sometimes, but that he CAN kill devils arcanely, roguishly, and use dead raising scrolls and not just that clickie just proves anything *IS* possible if you put your mind to it.


Oh sorry, the character somehow survived the gimpness everybody told me to see a heck of a lot of more WF rogue/wizzes and rogue/sorces in the world now that were really rare when I began.

And if one more person incorrectly defines him as an arcane trickster.....ahh what the heck, the're funny.

[Vizzini]

****! How did I not know that!! ¬.¬
Have to get Command Items for all my hagglers and UMD users now!


yes +2 to all cha based skils AKA haggle, umd etc. And a robe of command is ML 1

[brshelton]

Command is a +2 bonus to charisma skills.

But it doesn't stack with other skill bonus items. So if you have the Cartouche or anything similar that provides a (competence) bonus to UMD, command will be pointless.

30 DELERAS and no cartouche :(

[brshelton]

I got a 6 Cha starting WF Wiz/rogue and he is UMD 28 only a +1 tome found no head of good fortune no madstone ever found and he leaves the cartouche at home (or bank.) Yeah I now got that wizzie green helm, but the idea is it IS possible to use UMD with the "gimped" cha classes and no investment into the stat at creation. No way did he have instatomes as he was my first and a 28 point char remember.


I find it ironic that I can kill devils better than gnolls sometimes, but that he CAN kill devils arcanely, roguishly, and use dead raising scrolls and not just that clickie just proves anything *IS* possible if you put your mind to it.


Oh sorry, the character somehow survived the gimpness everybody told me to see a heck of a lot of more WF rogue/wizzes and rogue/sorces in the world now that were really rare when I began.

And if one more person incorrectly defines him as an arcane trickster.....ahh what the heck, the're funny.

umd is also a class skill for you and it is not for a 14/2 ranger fighter so I get half ranks. just pointing it out.

[bigal4458]

****! How did I not know that!! ¬.¬
Have to get Command Items for all my hagglers and UMD users now!

Like previously stated. Command won't stack w/ haggle items or UMD or other cha skill boost items.

[query]

And a bow of respect from me for that even more difficult goal.

You now are my you can do it 6 cha idol!
(I think that means we can finally kill Cajun man now.)


umd is also a class skill for you and it is not for a 14/2 ranger fighter so I get half ranks. just pointing it out.

[ChildrenofBodom]

Shun The Non-believers!!!


Shuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

[query]

as a believer, can I do it to the non-believers?

I CAN? YAY!


Dooooooooooooom!

[Delt]

Good job - but it should be noted, if you aren't hitting a 38-40+ sustainable UMD (ie: no boost) you are losing the main benefit of UMD (heal/reconstruct scrolls - thus pretty much never die :) ). Still, with a cartouche (or gloves) and UMD as a class skill, seems possible to hit 40 UMD while still dumping CHA...which is pretty cool.

[brshelton]

Good job - but it should be noted, if you aren't hitting a 38-40+ sustainable UMD (ie: no boost) you are losing the main benefit of UMD (heal/reconstruct scrolls - thus pretty much never die :) ). Still, with a cartouche (or gloves) and UMD as a class skill, seems possible to hit 40 UMD while still dumping CHA...which is pretty cool.

i disagree UMD is also used for RR items and rezzing dead people

[query]

i disagree UMD is also used for RR items and rezzing dead people

[Hands you a cigar]

And just because I CAN hit UMD 40 doesn't mean I always WANT my loadout to. With the true res clickies, raises are more backups anyway and the-I'm a wizard I stoneskin and expensively cast other spells ask for and get no tips-and you expect me to spend HOW much on something I'm normally backup #4 for or normally use my true reses when the cleric(s) eats it?

[brshelton]

[Hands you a cigar]

And just because I CAN hit UMD 40 doesn't mean I always WANT my loadout to. With the true res clickies, raises are more backups anyway and the-I'm a wizard I stoneskin and expensively cast other spells ask for and get no tips-and you expect me to spend HOW much on something I'm normally backup #4 for or normally use my true reses when the cleric(s) eats it?

yep its for when the clerics dies 3 times and im outta clickies. Its for when I'm left standing and I have to rez the cleric.

[Heladron]

Where the heck do you put your loot? You have about 80+ items taking up backpack space and that's only stuff you're showing in hotbars.

Nice job on the UMD though, I'm not even gonna worry about my sorcerers UMD anymore. You've just proven that in a pinch anybody can do it with a few decent items that shouldn't be too hard to obtain.

[brshelton]

Where the heck do you put your loot? You have about 80+ items taking up backpack space and that's only stuff you're showing in hotbars.

Nice job on the UMD though, I'm not even gonna worry about my sorcerers UMD anymore. You've just proven that in a pinch anybody can do it with a few decent items that shouldn't be too hard to obtain.

i usually only have about half to a whole backpack slot free for chests.

[Delt]

i disagree UMD is also used for RR items and rezzing dead people

I said "main benefit", not only. Everyone and their grandma can rez nowadays (the cleric, the sorc, the rog, the bard and various splashes). Even the non-UMD classes have true res clickies and rings. If you actually manage to build a group of 16's where only the cleric can raise, you've metaphorically won the lottery, so to speak.

Restriction bypass is a nice insurance for random loot, but there is no way RR bypassing > Unlimited Hitpoints...no way.

[brshelton]

I said "main benefit", not only. Everyone and their grandma can rez nowadays (the cleric, the sorc, the rog, the bard and various splashes). Even the non-UMD classes have true res clickies and rings. If you actually manage to build a group of 16's where only the cleric can raise, you've metaphorically won the lottery, so to speak.

Restriction bypass is a nice insurance for random loot, but there is no way RR bypassing > Unlimited Hitpoints...no way.

The rogue has UMD as a class skill. The cleric is well a cleric. The sorc has CHA out the butt. The point of this is to show that you can hit a workable UMD with a 6 starting CHA and no feats.

[Grenfell]

First of all, that is impressive. Second, all my characters after a certain point pump UMD, no matter what class, no matter what starting stats.

But it is important to keep in mind that 30.5 UMD is at a weird place, game-wise.

You really only need 20 (or maybe 22) for the vast majority of items requiring race/alignment.

On the other hand, you need 36 to hit Raise Dead scrolls (and if you've got tier3 commander items, then you probably have True Resurrection clicky at tier 2). You need 40 to hit Heal scrolls, in-combat. There are some wands and other scrolls that are useful around 32 UMD (Restoration comes to mind) but in reality, Raise Dead and Heal are the two big ones for UMD.

At 30 UMD, that's a 50% fail rate on Heal scrolls. Certainly not enough to rely on in combat, and possibly not cost-effective even outside combat. It's a 25% fail rate on Raise Dead scrolls; again, good enough outside combat, but not in-combat.

In fact, I'd argue that there's a fairly significant gap between say 22 UMD and 38ish UMD where it's in a bit of a gray zone.

Just something to keep in mind as you plan your character and gear slots and tome usage.

/gren

[brshelton]

First of all, that is impressive. Second, all my characters after a certain point pump UMD, no matter what class, no matter what starting stats.

But it is important to keep in mind that 30.5 UMD is at a weird place, game-wise.

You really only need 20 (or maybe 22) for the vast majority of items requiring race/alignment.

On the other hand, you need 36 to hit Raise Dead scrolls (and if you've got tier3 commander items, then you probably have True Resurrection clicky at tier 2). You need 40 to hit Heal scrolls, in-combat. There are some wands and other scrolls that are useful around 32 UMD (Restoration comes to mind) but in reality, Raise Dead and Heal are the two big ones for UMD.

At 30 UMD, that's a 50% fail rate on Heal scrolls. Certainly not enough to rely on in combat, and possibly not cost-effective even outside combat. It's a 25% fail rate on Raise Dead scrolls; again, good enough outside combat, but not in-combat.

In fact, I'd argue that there's a fairly significant gap between say 22 UMD and 38ish UMD where it's in a bit of a gray zone.

Just something to keep in mind as you plan your character and gear slots and tome usage.

/gren

agreed it is in an odd place. But also keep in mind once a cartouche would put me at 31, gloves at 33 and bard song at 35 AKA rez on a 1. I will never be UMDing in combat period because of madstone so thats not an issue. I use my clickies for o **** moments and my scrolls for non-com rezzes. It also nice for using knock lvl 10 wands in shroud part 3 to solo puzzles :D

[Delt]

The rogue has UMD as a class skill. The cleric is well a cleric. The sorc has CHA out the butt. The point of this is to show that you can hit a workable UMD with a 6 starting CHA and no feats.

I never said otherwise -- I said "nice", but it falls short of the main benefit of UMD (unlimited HP), you disagreed and stated rez and equipment were main benefits, I simply replied most characters have res ability at 16 and restated my opinion that unlimited HP should be the goal if possible (as that certainly trumps restricted equipment). And your latest reply expands stuff I already pointed out/seperated and then restates the original intent of the thread (which I already acknowledged originally).

In order to continue this circular and difficult to follow exchange, I could again say "nice job" to the original post and then "it's a shame you couldn't hit 40, as that's where the real fun begins". Then you'd reply and it would continue forever until someone learned to respect the flow of natural written communication, lol.

Instead I'll just echo what Gren said, 30.5 is an odd place to be (especially factoring a boost). Without the boost (maybe add the gloves) it's a pretty solid spot for some characters tho (like non-rangers, CSW's are 28 if I recall). Also cool that even dumped stat, at level 16 most characters should be able to boost/buff to item restriction bypass levels relatively easily, just by putting .5 points per level.


It also nice for using knock lvl 10 wands in shroud part 3 to solo puzzles :D

Wands don't work there, too low.