Experimenting w/ new quest difficulty mechanism?

[transtemporal]

So for anyone who doesn't know - the new marketplace quest, Devil Invasion uses a new and novel quest difficulty mechanism.
The quest is a level 6 walk-up on normal, but rather than level 7 on hard and level 8 on elite, its 12 on hard and 18 on elite. This changes the type of creatures and bosses that spawn (not just the same mobs with inflated HP, but different mobs, like tiefling warriors and trogs on normal to barbarzu and orthons on elite). It also scales the treasure available. Normal/hard/elite difficulties are available straight off the bat (no requirement to do normal and hard to get to elite). There is no end reward and no favor, but there are 4 chests that spawn (along with a rest shrine) between the waves of devils.

First question is for the devs: is this a small-scale test of a new difficulty system that you're gonna implement in new content or a one-off never-to-be-repeated?

Second question is for the punters: Apart from the fact that you can't tell its a level 18 on elite when looking at the quest dialogue, what did you think of the 6 normal / 12 hard / 18 elite scaling? Would you like to see more quests use the same mechanism or no?

cheers,
transtemporal

[Cowdenicus]

I love the idea for a few quests here and there, probably not on a regular basis though.

[sirgog]

I love this system.

Hope there's a LOT more like it (although IMO this should give favor, and the quest should be available forever)

[Razvan]

Yeah, this is not a new system...but how else could low level, mid-level and high level chars have access to this special event quest and get loot appropriate to their level?


Nice idea from the devs, but it is a one time thing for sure ! (to be used on other live event content in the future maybe, but not on regular quests)

[Spectralist]

Second question is for the punters: Apart from the fact that you can't tell its a level 18 on elite when looking at the quest dialogue, what did you think of the 6 normal / 12 hard / 18 elite scaling? Would you like to see more quests use the same mechanism or no?


I would love it if they did this for every quest. Maybe not quite +6/12 but a much higher plus then it is now. Mainly because it would spread the content over more levels and i would be able to do many of my favorite quests at higher levels and still get XP. Although i would prefer it if in most cases the actual enemy types didn't change.

[Horrorscope]

Why not a perma-death difficulty level as well? I always go back to Gothic 2 and Gothic 2 Night of the Raven, new quests but not all new terrain. Today I feel what presses development more then anything is graphics and creating the content visually. What I am getting at is keep the back drops and re-use them in different quests. With traps in different places, degree of diffuculty, monster type and placement. It's a quick way of getting us "more new" without breaking the dev's backs all the time. But again that is me.

[Falco_Easts]

Why not a perma-death difficulty level as well?
It's bad enough when someone chooses the wrong level to enter quest at the moment but at least you can recall, break group, reform and go back in. Imagine dieing then all the calls of "Which @#$% of a #$%^'s $%^& opened this on permadeath???" :)


I like the new mechanic on this quest but maybe when you clock on normal, hard or elite the level displays before you click on enter. I'm sure my guild wasn't the only one that said "level 6? Let's kick this one on elite!!! Whooo, Level 18!!! Recall and reform."

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Yeah, this is not a new system...but how else could low level, mid-level and high level chars have access to this special event quest and get loot appropriate to their level?


Nice idea from the devs, but it is a one time thing for sure ! (to be used on other live event content in the future maybe, but not on regular quests)

How do you come to that conclusion? They may have built it for the event, but why couldn't they use it widely.

[captain1z]

very scary.......


went in on normal with my usual pugging brothers.

Said "that was easy"

someone else says "we can open elite"

I say "ok"

hellfire and brimstone did come from the earth that day. Wave 2 made us all scream, like being on a rollercoaster that would not stop ....... no matter how bad you wanted to get off, no matter how much you throw up in your own face. You paid for the ticket now ride the ride ...... enjoyment is optional.


All in all ...I like it. If you can solo a quest on normal, why drag a party thru it with you......... just crank up the diff you you can all be challenged.

2nd run thru we were more prepared and almost finished, once the cleric went down that was all she wrote.................... nice loot too.


worth the price of admission.

[moorewr]

Yeah, ran it on normal.. yawning.. went back on Elite with a mostly guild run and a very odd wizard.. cruised through four waves.. the orthons show up for the fifth wave and boom! me and the other cleric drop in seconds and watch the other bars drop.. fastest party wipe evar. Pretty cool.

[GuitarHero]

What I am getting at is keep the back drops and re-use them in different quests. With traps in different places, degree of diffuculty, monster type and placement. It's a quick way of getting us "more new" without breaking the dev's backs all the time. But again that is me.

Thats one of my all time favorite things about bringing a new crew through HiPS. When they are looking around an area saying "Um, i recognize this part. Have we been here before?" Quests like that add a bit of permanence feeling to the area, but quests like Tangleroot kinda take reusing terrain a bit too far.

[MysticTheurge]

There definitely needs to be some indication (preferably right on the difficulty selection panel) that indicates what level each difficulty is.

[Razvan]

How do you come to that conclusion? They may have built it for the event, but why couldn't they use it widely.


Resources...to make such quests, as the one here, you have to code one quest three different times (different monsters)....
So, instead of making three different quests the devs will be making one with different challenge levels??...Doesn't make much sense when all people are complaining about is lack of content - lack of quests...

That is how I came to that conclusion!

[MysticTheurge]

Resources...to make such quests, as the one here, you have to code one quest three different times (different monsters)....
So, instead of making three different quests the devs will be making one with different challenge levels??...Doesn't make much sense when all people are complaining about is lack of content - lack of quests...

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

Do you think it's harder to:

A) Make three different difficulties of each monster in the quest (N/H/E kobolds, N/H/E kobold warriors, N/H/E kobold rogues, N/H/E kobold shamans, etc.), or
B) Code the quest to use monster B instead of monster A (Tieflings on Normal, Trolls on Hard, etc.)

I suspect, that they're probably pretty close to being the same amount of work, it's just that most quests want a consistent monster type, for story reasons.

[Lithic]

There definitely needs to be some indication (preferably right on the difficulty selection panel) that indicates what level each difficulty is.

Probably too late now, but they should have made it so when you click the door, the window shows 3 different available quests. Something like "Devil scouting party-Lvl 6, Devil skirmish-lvl 12, Devil assault-Lvl 18", and each only have one diff level available (They can eliminate all the other diffs on solo-only quests, surely they could do the same to lock these to one diff). This could have been displayed like when you go to do tangleroot and theres 2 people at the beginning, one guy at pt 3 and another at pt 7.

[MysticTheurge]

Probably too late now...

Yeah, it's not really that big a deal if this is a one-off thing. But if there are going to be more quests like this, they should figure out a way to indicate to people the level of the quest/difficulty combo that they're actually going into.

[Lithic]

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

Do you think it's harder to:

A) Make three different difficulties of each monster in the quest (N/H/E kobolds, N/H/E kobold warriors, N/H/E kobold rogues, N/H/E kobold shamans, etc.), or
B) Code the quest to use monster B instead of monster A (Tieflings on Normal, Trolls on Hard, etc.)

I suspect, that they're probably pretty close to being the same amount of work, it's just that most quests want a consistent monster type, for story reasons.

Both A and B are likely the same. Chances are good that they coded Kobold-norm as one mob, Kobold-hard as a second mob, and Kobold-elite as a third mob each with their own character sheet of stats and abilities. If thats the case, then subbing mobA for mobB wouldnt be any different than coding norm/hard/elite (Assuming the moster B isnt a completely new mob of course, which would require alot more work than making Kobold-superelite).

[Razvan]

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

Do you think it's harder to:

A) Make three different difficulties of each monster in the quest (N/H/E kobolds, N/H/E kobold warriors, N/H/E kobold rogues, N/H/E kobold shamans, etc.), or
B) Code the quest to use monster B instead of monster A (Tieflings on Normal, Trolls on Hard, etc.)

I suspect, that they're probably pretty close to being the same amount of work, it's just that most quests want a consistent monster type, for story reasons.


Actually what I was thinking is that it requires more testing...

Say you have a kobold on normal, a troll on hard and a dense earthie on elite...

Now what you have to think about now is the how each of these monster types will behave in the quest environment (will the earthie get stuck where the kobold will not and such)...

As it stands at the moment all they are doing is upping the CR for the mobs in the quests, so...no extra testing required, since the monsters are the same...


And the "story reasons" part makes sense too...