Where is Asmodeus or Orcus

[moonglum]

I recently came back to DDO and I am so pleased to see other people playing online. I used to play the old pnp game and remember some of the tougher enemies such as Orcus or Asmodeus. I hope to see these baddies introduced in a chain quest sometime in the future. With the live event in SR and the most recent module perhaps we are on the path to see these villains in the future.

[RictrasShard]

I rather hope they are on vacation, myself.

[Brummbar]

Not Sure but..

Aren't those Gods from another game universe.

I think Ebberon is not Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms so I'm not totally sure that the Gods are the same between universes.

Some one will correct me and you on this and clarify no doubt.

[captain1z]

I recently came back to DDO and I am so pleased to see other people playing online. I used to play the old pnp game and remember some of the tougher enemies such as Orcus or Asmodeus. I hope to see these baddies introduced in a chain quest sometime in the future. With the live event in SR and the most recent module perhaps we are on the path to see these villains in the future.

Those are both Forgotten Realms baddies ....... wont likely find them in the Ebberron setting.

[RictrasShard]

Those are both Forgotten Realms baddies ....... wont likely find them in the Ebberron setting.

They're in Forgotten Realms? Never knew that. My only experiences with them were from before FR was released.

[Angelus_dead]

Those are both Forgotten Realms baddies ....... wont likely find them in the Ebberron setting.
No, they're Greyhawk monsters, who were added into AD&D's Monster Manual from that setting. Forgotten Realms mixes together dozens of miscellaneous sources, including those demon lords... but that doesn't make them "Forgotten Realms" creatures. Neither are Drow or Illithids, by the way.

[Kyrus]

Well they are devils and demons so they can travel wherever...

[Snoggy]

I recently came back to DDO and I am so pleased to see other people playing online. I used to play the old pnp game and remember some of the tougher enemies such as Orcus or Asmodeus. I hope to see these baddies introduced in a chain quest sometime in the future. With the live event in SR and the most recent module perhaps we are on the path to see these villains in the future.

We just got to our first Pit Fiend, a general of hell (I mean shavarath). I think there's still some ladder-climbing left before we hit the nobility and lords of that plane. But I like your enthusiasm!

[MylesMDT]

They are Planar creatures, so they exist entirely outside of the different campaign universes.

Myself, I'd hate to see them, Jubilex especially.

Nah, I'd love to see him!

BTW, does anyone have the stats of an Orthon? I soloed one tonight (1 AM EST) in the Marketplace, standing on top of one of the broken pillars. L9 Ranger, solo, hit him with Many Shot, +2 Arrows, and a +1 Holy Composite Longbow of Righteousness. He went down pretty quick.

I have to say as a "Welcome Back"er, this is fun stuff. Gary would be proud.

[Memnir]

Actually... don't we already have an Aspect of Jubilex in The Pit?

[EspyLacopa]

We just got to our first Pit Fiend, a general of hell (I mean shavarath). I think there's still some ladder-climbing left before we hit the nobility and lords of that plane. But I like your enthusiasm!
Maybe we'll get to fight one of the Lords of Madness in a raid when the level cap goes up again. Gotta love them crazy Daelkyr.

[cdbd3rd]

They are Planar creatures, so they exist entirely outside of the different campaign universes.

Myself, I'd hate to see them, Jubilex especially.

Nah, I'd love to see him!

BTW, does anyone have the stats of an Orthon? I soloed one tonight (1 AM EST) in the Marketplace, standing on top of one of the broken pillars. L9 Ranger, solo, hit him with Many Shot, +2 Arrows, and a +1 Holy Composite Longbow of Righteousness. He went down pretty quick.

I have to say as a "Welcome Back"er, this is fun stuff. Gary would be proud.

I saw that. I had fallen asleep on my keyboard, and woke up apparently after the nights the main probing. Figured out you were thumping on the last strangler.:rolleyes:

(Tonight = more sleep during the day.) ;)

[cdbd3rd]

Actually... don't we already have an Aspect of Jubilex in The Pit?

Yeah, that was just their way of saying Jubilex had stopped by and used the rest room (pit). That's all that fight is, is a battle against His congealed waste byproduct.

[Angelus_dead]

They are Planar creatures, so they exist entirely outside of the different campaign universes.
That is completely false and insensible.

[Nemonon]

Asmodeus and Orcus existed far before forgotten realms. they were in the first monster manual and included in nearly every game setting since

greyhawk. They exist in the planes. which is tottally seperate and independent of all campain settings letting all campain settings tap into that

source material. You could encounter adventureres from Krynn, spell jammers, dark sun, greyhawk and ebberon all in the planes (which by the

way were dictated in full by monte cook and various others in the Planescape setting) If ebberon is independent from this and has no connection at all

with the planes then that is what i find ridiculous. On a side note Orcus is in no way considered a god. He is a prince of Hell and far less powerful.

Asmodeus however is actually one of the first two gods to ever exist and aided in creating all of existince. Who also cares nothing about converting

people to evil he only cares for making people disbelive in the other gods so there souls end up in his realm anyways. (much better for bussiness).

However it is still worth noting the module for figting Orcus and rescuing Wakeeun the god of Merchants is one of the first epic adventures ever created

and required an entire party of lvl 20+ adventurers getting battered and beaten to complete.For more information on the planes and devils see AD&D 2nd

edition Planescape setting and the Guide to Hell. I think it is more likely that ebberon just has its own names for the existing Planes. Shaveroth=Bator for

example. i see no reason for them to have created entirely new planes to house the same old devils and demons when the ones in existence have been

fine tuned and fleshed out over the last 30 years and would be far better than anything the Ebberon developers could "invent" on the fly souly for

ebberon to interact with.

[wemery73]

both are listed in AD&D 1st Edition - item number 2009 - Monster Manual way before forgotten realms came out..
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/images/44/17002.jpg

(1977)
Publisher: TSR, Inc.
Game Line: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons
Game System: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons
Product Code: TSR 2009
ISBN: 0-935696-00-8
# of Pages: 112

Credits:

Name Credit
Gary Gygax Author

David C. Sutherland III Interior Artist

David A. Trampier Interior Artist

Tom Wham Interior Artist

Jean Wells Interior Artist

David C. Sutherland III Cover Artist

Mike Carr Editing


Armodeus (Arch-devi I )
FREQUENCY: Very rare
NO. APPEARING: I
ARMOR CLASS: -7
MOVE: 12"/24"
HIT DICE: 199 hit points
Yo IN LAIR: 90%
TREASURETYPE: I, R, U, V
NO. OF ATTACKS: I
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 4- 14
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: +3 or better
MAGIC RESISTANCE 90%
INTELLIGENCE: Supra genius
ALIGNMENT: Lawful evil
SIZE: L (13%'tall)
PSlONlC ABILITY: 366
weapon to hit
Attack/Defense Modes: All/all

Orcus (Prince of the Undead)
FREQUENCY: Very rare
NO. APPEARING: J
ARMOR CLASS: -6
MOVE: 9"/18"
HIT DICE: 120 hit points
% IN LAIR: 50%
TREASURE TYPE: P, S, 1, U.
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGe/ATTACK: See below
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: +3 or better
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 85%
INTELLIGENCE: Supra genius
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil
SIZE: L ( J5'tall)
PSlONlC ABILITY: 350
weapon to hit
Attack/Defense Modes: All/all

[wemery73]

Orcus (Prince of the Undead)

It is probable that this creature is one of the most powerful and strongest of
all demons. If he so much as slops with his open hand the blow causes 1-4
hit points of damage. His terrible fists can deliver blows of 3-13 hit points.
If he uses a weapon he strikes with a bonus of +6 to hit and +8 on
damage. Additionally his tail has a virulent poison sting (-4 on all saving
throws against its poison), and his toil strikes with an 18 dexterity which
does 2-8 hit points each time it hits.
Orcus can, at will, use any one of the following powers: Cast continual
darkness, charm person, create illusion (as a wand of that kind), cause
fear (os a fear wand), detect rnogic, read magic, read languages, detect
invisible objects, ESP, cause pyrotechnics, dispel magic, clairvoy, use
clairaudience, cast a 12-die lightning bolt, suggest, polymorph self, create
o wall of fire, telekinese 12,000 gold piece weight, animate dead (os a
19th level magic-user), cast a feeblemind spell once per day, project
image, use any one of the symbols once per day each, polymorph any
object, shape change, time stop once per doy, and has an 80% chance of
gating in any demon of type I-V (but only a 50% chance of gating a type V
or VI and will never call upon another prince). Orcus can speak with the
dead (as 20th level cleric).
Orcus furthermore is able to summon certain of the undead, for he is their
prince. If random calling is desired by the referee the following chart is
suggested:

1 - 4-48 skeletons
2 - 4-32 zombies
3 - 4-24 shadows
4 - 2-8 vampires
Finally, Orcus holds the wand of death (Orcus' Wand) which is a rod
of obsidian topped by a skull. This instrument causes death (or
annihilation) to any creature, save those of like status (other princes or
devils, saints, godlings, etc.) merely by touching their flesh. Other powers
of this device os rumored amongst mortals are dealt with in another book.
Description: Orcus is a grossly fat demon lord, some 15' tall. His huge gray
body is covered with goatish hair, and his head is goat-like although his
horns are similar to those of a rom. His great legs are also goat-like, but his
arms are human. Vast bat wings sprout from his back, and his long, snaky
tail is tipped with a poisonous head.




Asmodeus, arch-fiend, the Overlord of all the dukes of Hell rules by both
might and wit. He is physically stronger than any other devil (as strong as a
storm giant) and the most cunning and artful. His mighty palace rests upon
the floor of the lowest rift in Hell's ninth plane. His servitors are pit-fiends
(q.v.) and whichever of the other lesser and greater devils he commands
to service. Once per year he can command the arch-devils to attend his
court and pay homage.
The powers possessed by Asmodeus which are usable at will, once per turn
or melee round, are: pyrotechnics, produce flame, wall of fire, ice storm,
wall of ice, continual light, read languages, read magic, detect invisible,
locate object, invisibility, dispel magic, hold person, hold monster, shape
change, beguile, rulership, mass charm, geas, restoration, raise dead fully,
or (fulfill another's) wish. Asmodeus can use the following powers once
per day: symbol of pain, symbol of insanity, symbol of hopelessness (save
versus magic or submit to Asmodeus' will), (un) holy word. He can always
summon 2 lesser or 1 greater devil. The gaze of this arch-fiend causes fear,
fear and weakness or chill (slows 50% and -5 on all dice rolls) at his
option. Saving throw versus magic applies.
Asmodeus has a glowing rod of pure ruby. It acts as a rod of absorption. It
also causes serious wounds on anyone touched by its opaline tip. Upon
command it will shoot forth a cone of frost, a jet of acid, or a bolt of
lightning (all according to the appropriate dragon breath weapon). The
value of this instrument is 1,000,ooO gold pieces considering the gem
qualities only!
Description: There can be no question that Asmodeus is the most
handsome of all devils as well as being the strongest and most cunning.
The ultimate evil he represents can be seen in his beauty only when he so
wills or if he forgets himself and flies into a rage.




Asmodeus and Orcus existed far before forgotten realms. they were in the first monster manual and included in nearly every game setting since

greyhawk. They exist in the planes. which is tottally seperate and independent of all campain settings letting all campain settings tap into that

source material. You could encounter adventureres from Krynn, spell jammers, dark sun, greyhawk and ebberon all in the planes (which by the

way were dictated in the Planescape setting by monte cook) If ebberon is independent from this and has no connection at all with the planes

then that is what i find ridiculous. On a side note Orcus is in no way considered a god. He is a prince of Hell. Asmodeus however is actually one

of the first two gods to ever exist and aided in creating all of existince. Who also cares nothing about converting people to evil he only cares for

making people disbelive in the other gods so there souls end up in his realm anyways. (much better for bussiness). For more information on the

planes and devils see AD&D 2nd edition Planescape setting and the Guide to Hell.

[Angelus_dead]

greyhawk. They exist in the planes. which is tottally seperate and independent of all campain settings letting all campain settings tap into that
The idea that "planes are not part of the setting" is just totally and completely false. Also, it's silly.

[wemery73]

The Eberron cosmology, used in the Eberron campaign setting, contains thirteen Outer Planes. They exhibit traits similar to those of the standard D&D cosmology but also some (Irian, Mabar, Fernia, and Risia) appear more like Inner Planes. The cosmology is unique in that the Outer Planes orbit around Eberron through the Astral plane. As they orbit, their overlap with the material plane changes and access to those planes may become easier or restricted.

[TreknaQudane]

The idea that "planes are not part of the setting" is just totally and completely false. Also, it's silly.

Exactly, besides Eberron has a different cosmology than vanilla D&D. While in theory you could see those names, it's more likely to see something unique for Eberron.

[Nemonon]

Angela i mean no disrespect but you are wrong. If you know anything about the make up of the D&D universe you would know that all celestial

bodies exist in crystal spheres that may be traversed by spell jamming vessels. Ebberon included. That is the main way to travel to other settings

in D&D outside of a portal or powerful spell or artifact. You can also encounter conduits to the asteral and etheral plane in the Philistion or area

surrounding the crystal spheres. it is only by sailing through the Asteral plane that you can reach the outer planes. Baator, the Abyss, Archeon,

etc. ect. it is only through travelling though the etheral planes that you can reach the inner planes. Fire, Air, Earth, Ooze, Smoke. So the planes

have nothing to do with the campain settings like it or not. each campain is inside a crystal sphere which has to be left to get to the same set of

planes as all other campain settings. That is the cosmos or mulitiverse i should say that has been laid out over the last 30 years and the only

one that i belive is in existence today. They may have broken the mold when they made Ebberon and erased decades of work and study but i

doubt it. You can find further information in the Spell jammers campainsetting and the Planescape campain setting. I belive some minor things

were changed in 3.0 but i know that sigil the city of doors is still in place as well as the old structure of things. The only changes i've noticed

were in the discription of the planes and the way you interact with them.

note: There are more ways to reach the planes than i have laid out here. i only talked about the ways you can travel through The philistion to get there so as to draw a picture of the cosmos for those who don't know how it works. Also traveling from plane to plane requires portals of which you need portal keys to open. Since all planes are infinite in size and direction. My point is..............we could fight Orcus. Hell we could fight Zues or even the lady of Pain. They all live in the Planes..................

[Nemonon]

Wemery73.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I know very little about the ebberon campain setting. seems like Eberon has celestial bodies that orbit around

it containing aspects of existing planes or maybe even those bodies are indeed portals to the planes themselves. They still however are

contained inside a crystal sphere and take place as part of the cosmos just like all other campain settings and worlds. meaning it could still

happen. Agian i know very little about Ebberon. I do however know alot about spelljamming and planewalking. If it doesn't work this way i would

be very surprised since this has always been a constant regardless of the setting. Also in regards to Asmodeus being the Duke of hell you are

right and wrong. It is also stated in the guide to hell that his biggest secret and the secret that could unravel the multiverse is that Asmodeus is

one of the first two gods the twin serpents Ahriman and Jazirian (also known as the serpents of Law). Who had an arguement after they created

all of existance about where the center of the universe would be. After the dispute Ahriman fell in to the lowest pits of baator and Zazirian flew

up to mount celestia and became the god of the couatl which were born from her blood. Devils were born from the blood of Ahriman in turn. The

Duke of Hell is but a manifestation of Ahriman one of many by the way as it does not weaken Asmdeous to have multiple aspects at one time as

it does the other Royalty of Hell to do so. He uses this often to defend his claim to the Throne of Hell. It is also for this reason that you will

almost always see the body of a serpent at the lowest level of Hell in nearly any map.

[Nyp]

The most surprising thing about this thread is it demonstrates how many people play DDO that haven't been playing D&D since, well...forever and are unfamiliar with the structure of the D&D mutiverse. I see this borne out in many other posts as well. Through the 30+ years that I have been playing PnP, D&D has gone through many changes, updates, revisions, campaign settings etc. Not everything that has ever been put out by Tactical Studies Rules, TSR, WotC can be connected or should they be. As long as each campaign is true to its itself then there are no problems. I have DM'd several campaigns that lasted @ 7 years of real time each. Both worlds had distinct backgrounds, histories and mythologies that had nothing to do with the other. However there are some things that can be considered constants. Asmodeus, Orcus, Demogorgon Jubilex etc. are VERY bad and you never want to wake up next to them.

My advice is to shut of your PC (gasp!) get 5 or 6 other friends, snacks, soda, pencils and paper and experience the games as it was meant to be. There is a lot to be said for human, face to face interaction that cannot be duplicated by the virtual world.

[RictrasShard]

My advice is to shut of your PC (gasp!) get 5 or 6 other friends, snacks, soda, pencils and paper and experience the games as it was meant to be. There is a lot to be said for human, face to face interaction that cannot be duplicated by the virtual world.


Heresay! Nyp is a witch! Burn him/her!

[Petro]

Could you imagine the epic campaign to battle Asmodeus. Astral travel would have to be obtained first either by magic or other means (death). Upon arriving in Avernus (the first of nine hells) you would have to battle legions of devils to get to the Bronze Citadel a huge fortress. Lord Bel (a pit fiend) resides in the center of this fortified city, whom you would need to defeat only to find the entrance to Tiamats liar. After swimming through a sea of maggots and Lemures you would come to the Pillar of Skulls a trophy of those killed in the Blood War that reaches miles into the sky. Oh and if you don't know who Tiamat is she is only the goddess of all evil dragons. Picture a Five headed chromatic dragon of Pure evil that makes Vela look like a baby whyrmling. Oh and her five consorts ancient black, blue, green, red, and white dragons. Or you could try your chances in the Cave of Greed. Just to reach the Gates of Dis the second deepest layer. Almost there you only have 8 more layers to go each one exceedingly more evil and vile the the first.

Man that would be fun!

[Mad_Bombardier]

Actually... don't we already have an Aspect of Jubilex in The Pit?Juiblex. Not Jubilex. ;) Maybe if he partied a little more the Faceless Lord would be more jubilant and we could call him Jubilex. :D

[EspyLacopa]

Angela i mean no disrespect but you are wrong. If you know anything about the make up of the D&D universe you would know that all celestial

bodies exist in crystal spheres that may be traversed by spell jamming vessels. Ebberon included. That is the main way to travel to other settings

in D&D outside of a portal or powerful spell or artifact. You can also encounter conduits to the asteral and etheral plane in the Philistion or area

surrounding the crystal spheres. it is only by sailing through the Asteral plane that you can reach the outer planes. Baator, the Abyss, Archeon,

etc. ect. it is only through travelling though the etheral planes that you can reach the inner planes. Fire, Air, Earth, Ooze, Smoke. So the planes

have nothing to do with the campain settings like it or not. each campain is inside a crystal sphere which has to be left to get to the same set of

planes as all other campain settings. That is the cosmos or mulitiverse i should say that has been laid out over the last 30 years and the only

one that i belive is in existence today. They may have broken the mold when they made Ebberon and erased decades of work and study but i

doubt it. You can find further information in the Spell jammers campainsetting and the Planescape campain setting. I belive some minor things

were changed in 3.0 but i know that sigil the city of doors is still in place as well as the old structure of things. The only changes i've noticed

were in the discription of the planes and the way you interact with them.

note: There are more ways to reach the planes than i have laid out here. i only talked about the ways you can travel through The philistion to get there so as to draw a picture of the cosmos for those who don't know how it works. Also traveling from plane to plane requires portals of which you need portal keys to open. Since all planes are infinite in size and direction. My point is..............we could fight Orcus. Hell we could fight Zues or even the lady of Pain. They all live in the Planes..................

No disrespect to you, but you are quite wrong: Eberron has an entirely separate set of planes, which follow different rules from the other settings. This was done on purpose.

Just because the Planescape setting worked like that does not mean it applies to ALL planes that will ever be created for new settings.

[honkuimushi]

Planescape and Spelljammer were not ported to third edition. Parts of them were incorperated, but there was a move away from linking settings. Eberron in particular was created to use a different planar structure and to be separate from other campaign settings. This trend seems to be continuing if you look at 4th edition.

They went and tossed the entire Great Wheel structure, even going so far to completely destroy Faerun and its planar structure. Up until now, Faerun has basically used the default Great Wheel structure and it was a large part of the Spelljammer and Planescape settings and was linked to all the other TSR settings, with the possible exceptions of Ravenloft and Darksun. (Though there were some links to Ravenloft, i.e. Jander.) That Great Wheel structure, along with most of the history of FR, has been destroyed and replaced with the 4th edition planar structure, setting theme and left a lot more isolated.

Because Eberron was created using a different plan, the existance of unique planar creature is really up in the air. I would suggest no. The gods in Eberron are a lot more nebulous and evidence of their existance is very weak. Belief is truly a matter of faith. The Lords of the Dust have cults worshipping them. This was mentioned in the campaign setting. I would think that beings so near in power to dieties as Asmodeus and Orcus would have majorly influential cults with the lack of competition. Add to that the lack of a Baator. Asmodeus and the Lords of the 9 just don't have much of a reason to exist without the structure of the 9 Hells to shape them.

[moonglum]

We just got to our first Pit Fiend, a general of hell (I mean shavarath). I think there's still some ladder-climbing left before we hit the nobility and lords of that plane. But I like your enthusiasm!

Asmod and Orcus are apart of Greyhawk if my memory serves me correctly. They were apart of the old PnP game as someone stated in the previous post. Described in the older Monster manual. They were introduced many many years before Forgotten Realms came into existence. Regardless if this is Eberron I would like to see them introduced at some point in time. Anything is possible.

I would also at some point hope to fight Lolth? (spelling). Anyone remember the purple module back in the days. Forgot the name of it but I recall having to travel to her plane or web and fight her. She had some pretty nasty monsters on her side.

[Cjarr]

Orcus (Prince of the Undead)

It is probable that this creature is one of the most powerful and strongest of
all demons. If he so much as slops with his open hand the blow causes 1-4
hit points of damage. His terrible fists can deliver blows of 3-13 hit points.
If he uses a weapon he strikes with a bonus of +6 to hit and +8 on
damage. Additionally his tail has a virulent poison sting (-4 on all saving
throws against its poison), and his toil strikes with an 18 dexterity which
does 2-8 hit points each time it hits.


Still love the fact that it can state most powerful with damage of 3-13.....:)

[EspyLacopa]

Still love the fact that it can state most powerful with damage of 3-13.....:)
It would be if players only did 1-4 damage, and only had 20 hp.

All a matter of scale.

[moonglum]

Still love the fact that it can state most powerful with damage of 3-13.....:)

It is his wand that will get you.

[jmelanie7]

Actually... don't we already have an Aspect of Jubilex in The Pit?

No it's an aspect of Juiblex, not the same. Juiblex is an Eberron god.



And to answer creatures who live in the planes travel anywhere, this is not true when it is an entirely diffrent MULTIVERSE, like eberron is.

[jmelanie7]

Still love the fact that it can state most powerful with damage of 3-13.....:)

Then they should state my barb as GODLY

[jmelanie7]

I would also at some point hope to fight Lolth? (spelling). Anyone remember the purple module back in the days. Forgot the name of it but I recall having to travel to her plane or web and fight her. She had some pretty nasty monsters on her side.

This is not going to happen, Drows in Eberron are not at all related to spiders, but to scorpions, but i'm pretty sure you figured it out (scorrows).

[GeneralDiomedes]

No it's an aspect of Juiblex, not the same. Juiblex is an Eberron god.


Pretty sure he appeared before that :)

Also, I thought it was an Avatar of Juiblex in the Pit no? And all the Trogs there have Juiblestic names (and even another version of Acid Arrow) which means the Pit is likely the home to a cult of Juiblex possibly lead by that silly ooze at the bottom.

As to what can or can't appear in a certain multiverse .. actually anything that the author wants to can appear. If Eberron is a little short on iconic figures like Orcus (and it is) there's nothing stopping them from borrowing some of the existing mythology.

[Musmanno]

Those are both Forgotten Realms baddies ....... wont likely find them in the Ebberron setting.

Pre-date FR as others have pointed out.

Reminds me of a discussion I had online with a guy who claimed Drow originate with the Forgotten Realms. I had to email him a couple of scanned pages from a 1978 D&D module to convince him that Drow were around way before Drizz't and FR.

[Musmanno]

No disrespect to you, but you are quite wrong: Eberron has an entirely separate set of planes, which follow different rules from the other settings. This was done on purpose.

That's exactly right.

It is explained thusly on the WotC web site:

"Because Eberron's planes are associated only with Eberron (rather than a common set of Outer Planes with multiple Material Planes), the planes should tie in to events in Eberron, whether current or historical...the Eberron cosmology doesn't have any planes representing concepts not on Eberron, and the creatures on those planes."

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebug/20041213a

[Musmanno]

Pretty sure he appeared before that :)



Yep. Juiblex shows up in the first 1977 Monster Manual.

[Brutous]

Ya, about that.....Well you see I', personally glad that Orcus is not out and about anywhere in the game. If he was it would have to be a 24-48 man raid with a balista and endless supply of healing and rez scrolls.

[EspyLacopa]

Ya, about that.....Well you see I', personally glad that Orcus is not out and about anywhere in the game. If he was it would have to be a 24-48 man raid with a balista and endless supply of healing and rez scrolls.

No, we'd be lv30 characters in a 12 man raid.

[Brutous]

No, we'd be lv30 characters in a 12 man raid.

ah...epic lvl- nice!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcus_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29

[Draclaud]

Just give us a Ravenloft Mod, and be done with it. It's a demi-plane and addable to any and all words. Love the flexibility.

[suitepotato]

Actually... don't we already have an Aspect of Jubilex in The Pit?

Yes, good spot.

Demons, devils, various gods, are all extraplanar and intersect various prime material planes as their whimsy directs them. Various gods appear under different guises altogether in different prime material planes, so some of those in Eberron may be ones more familiar under other names in pnp.

The politics of the other planar creatures are deep and complex like international politics on Earth here. Each power and group of powers has to be very careful to watch out for repercussions on multiple levels and time is different between planes and the greater powers can see back and forth in time the stream of events as they change. Orcus won't risk a confrontation with Demogorgon for nothing. Odin won't trespass into Zeus' backyard. Just to draw from the old source material.

Pit fiends hail from Hell's ninth layer, and so far as has been covered, only Asmodeus (last I checked) held any land there (not surprising with constant roving triple strength firewalls). There are various gods of humans and others known to have abodes in the Hells, but they keep far from the arch devils and I don't recall any at the ninth level. Asmodeus MIGHT send pit fiends as emissaries to anyone he is doing business with, but none of them would dare risk his wrath by free-lancing for some other power.

So my money would be on a power that is known by another name in Eberron actually being Asmodeus by another name being behind the whole thing and there being a deeper reason. At least, I hope so. Putting a pit fiend in for no reason other than opportunism is just plain stupid and savages the RPG background material.

[EspyLacopa]

Pit fiends hail from Hell's ninth layer,
Actually, Pit Fiends in Eberron come from Shavarath, which is essential an immense Battleground.

[suitepotato]

Actually, Pit Fiends in Eberron come from Shavarath, which is essential an immense Battleground.

And as stated over the years, many of the planes noted in the old DnD are known by LOTS of different names across a nearly infinite if not infinite series of alternate prime material planes.

Nothing was said of multiple alternate Hells, Limbos, etc.

Also, it has been repeatedly stated that various powers are known by totally different names depending on what plane, planet, continent, nation, is concerned.

The powers are referred to as powers for a reason. They can walk between planes of reality and different universes the way humans teleport across town and have worshippers and servants across so many places they number in the trillions and trillions. They are nearly ageless and can play gambits across swaths of time that are beyond mortal understanding.

[Aspenor]

And as stated over the years, many of the planes noted in the old DnD are known by LOTS of different names across a nearly infinite if not infinite series of alternate prime material planes.

Nothing was said of multiple alternate Hells, Limbos, etc.

Also, it has been repeatedly stated that various powers are known by totally different names depending on what plane, planet, continent, nation, is concerned.

The powers are referred to as powers for a reason. They can walk between planes of reality and different universes the way humans teleport across town and have worshippers and servants across so many places they number in the trillions and trillions. They are nearly ageless and can play gambits across swaths of time that are beyond mortal understanding.

Eberron exists as a world by itself, with no connection or correlation with most DnD campaign sets.

[Westerner]

The Pit Fiend has ~250,000HP... I don't know that I want to mess with a Demon Lord or Arch Devil. :)

[RazorrX]

According to Keith Baker = If it exists in D&D it has a place in Ebberon.

So devil and demon princes.. yep they are here somewhere.

[Brutous]

The Pit Fiend has ~250,000HP... I don't know that I want to mess with a Demon Lord or Arch Devil. :)

I think I heard of a party one that was able to drop his con - and blind him. But I think they were epic lvl.

[EspyLacopa]

According to Keith Baker = If it exists in D&D it has a place in Ebberon.

So devil and demon princes.. yep they are here somewhere.
Likely commanding their respective armies in Shavarath.

Shavarath isn't Hell, or any analog. It's a massive battleground: Home to Archons, Demons, and Devils, locked in conflict over dominance over the plane. Closest possible analog to any Hell in the cosmology of Eberron would be Fernia. . .and that's just because it's all on fire.

[moonglum]

Pre-date FR as others have pointed out.

Reminds me of a discussion I had online with a guy who claimed Drow originate with the Forgotten Realms. I had to email him a couple of scanned pages from a 1978 D&D module to convince him that Drow were around way before Drizz't and FR.



Hehe there you go....

[Tin_Dragon]

I recently came back to DDO and I am so pleased to see other people playing online. I used to play the old pnp game and remember some of the tougher enemies such as Orcus or Asmodeus. I hope to see these baddies introduced in a chain quest sometime in the future. With the live event in SR and the most recent module perhaps we are on the path to see these villains in the future.

This game is Eberron Specific, those guys are not from Eberron.

They have no place in DDO: Eberron, now if someone did a DDO: Oearth, or (God Forbid) Forgotten Realms (what a mess that would be), we should see them.

[Tin_Dragon]

According to Keith Baker = If it exists in D&D it has a place in Ebberon.

So devil and demon princes.. yep they are here somewhere.

In regards to races, monsters, classes, etc...

But named world specific are just that. World specific.

[moonglum]

The most surprising thing about this thread is it demonstrates how many people play DDO that haven't been playing D&D since, well...forever and are unfamiliar with the structure of the D&D mutiverse. I see this borne out in many other posts as well. Through the 30+ years that I have been playing PnP, D&D has gone through many changes, updates, revisions, campaign settings etc. Not everything that has ever been put out by Tactical Studies Rules, TSR, WotC can be connected or should they be. As long as each campaign is true to its itself then there are no problems. I have DM'd several campaigns that lasted @ 7 years of real time each. Both worlds had distinct backgrounds, histories and mythologies that had nothing to do with the other. However there are some things that can be considered constants. Asmodeus, Orcus, Demogorgon Jubilex etc. are VERY bad and you never want to wake up next to them.

My advice is to shut of your PC (gasp!) get 5 or 6 other friends, snacks, soda, pencils and paper and experience the games as it was meant to be. There is a lot to be said for human, face to face interaction that cannot be duplicated by the virtual world.


I'll stick to DDO and other MMO's. My days of the Pnp are gone. I also started PnP in the late 70's or early 80's.
Sure there is not much human interaction in DDO or other MMO's but I like the visual aspects versus the words. At least DDO has voice chat.

Of course Asmod, Orcus and the others are bad. What else would they be? As to wake up next to them I dont get your point unless your providing game scare/humour.

[moonglum]

This game is Eberron Specific, those guys are not from Eberron.

They have no place in DDO: Eberron, now if someone did a DDO: Oearth, or (God Forbid) Forgotten Realms (what a mess that would be), we should see them.

This is a game. If Turbine wants to bend the realms Im sure it would not create a mass exodus of players..." um look here this is Eberron you have to be true to the Eberron world". Bah..thats bull.

[Tarnoc]

Well i played old school pnp did many of the old campieghs against orcus and the evil gods

i play ddo and donnot know eberon well but ultimately

i dont care wat you call the baddy well make up a names liek harry or sally lol

i just wanna see the artwork done for baddys

and p.s. ide be happy to meet you all fighting banishable slimes lol and watch everone whine my wops breaking lmao

would you be happy fighting more and more pit fiends or other artwork of dungeons and dragons ultimately any seeting was under the control of said dm in ddos case that turbine

so really they can do as they whish and if they make it awesome fun and such only a few whiners would ever compleint it didnt fit totally in eberon

[Uska]

Well they are devils and demons so they can travel wherever...

not quite eberrons planes arent connected to greyhawk and the rest

[Thorboar]

I would also at some point hope to fight Lolth? (spelling). Anyone remember the purple module back in the days. Forgot the name of it but I recall having to travel to her plane or web and fight her. She had some pretty nasty monsters on her side.

Queen of the demon web pits....loved that module..... by the way, it was in the Greyhawk setting . Lolth also was part of the forgotten Relms.

[Uska]

They are Planar creatures, so they exist entirely outside of the different campaign universes.

Myself, I'd hate to see them, Jubilex especially.

Nah, I'd love to see him!

BTW, does anyone have the stats of an Orthon? I soloed one tonight (1 AM EST) in the Marketplace, standing on top of one of the broken pillars. L9 Ranger, solo, hit him with Many Shot, +2 Arrows, and a +1 Holy Composite Longbow of Righteousness. He went down pretty quick.

I have to say as a "Welcome Back"er, this is fun stuff. Gary would be proud.

Not if they arent part of the world back ground and Orcus jubilex and crowd dont exist or least they didnt in ebberon no connection between eberrons planes and those of the old pnp worlds

[dopey69]

Wemery73.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I know very little about the ebberon campain setting. seems like Eberon has celestial bodies that orbit around

it containing aspects of existing planes or maybe even those bodies are indeed portals to the planes themselves. They still however are

contained inside a crystal sphere and take place as part of the cosmos just like all other campain settings and worlds. meaning it could still

happen. Agian i know very little about Ebberon. I do however know alot about spelljamming and planewalking. If it doesn't work this way i would

be very surprised since this has always been a constant regardless of the setting. Also in regards to Asmodeus being the Duke of hell you are

right and wrong. It is also stated in the guide to hell that his biggest secret and the secret that could unravel the multiverse is that Asmodeus is

one of the first two gods the twin serpents Ahriman and Jazirian (also known as the serpents of Law). Who had an arguement after they created

all of existance about where the center of the universe would be. After the dispute Ahriman fell in to the lowest pits of baator and Zazirian flew

up to mount celestia and became the god of the couatl which were born from her blood. Devils were born from the blood of Ahriman in turn. The

Duke of Hell is but a manifestation of Ahriman one of many by the way as it does not weaken Asmdeous to have multiple aspects at one time as

it does the other Royalty of Hell to do so. He uses this often to defend his claim to the Throne of Hell. It is also for this reason that you will

almost always see the body of a serpent at the lowest level of Hell in nearly any map.

well I am just a hard core gamer that fell into ddo by fluke, saw it bought it and never stopped palying since :) heard of dnd but never knew ne one who ever played and I got to tell ya i really enjoy reading you guys post about the history and bases for this game i love so much tyvm:) and if neone could recomend a starter book i could get to read more about it that would be sweet too

[Dymond]

I just gotta chime in that we specifically mentioned 'Avatar of Juiblex' in The Pit Quest. At that point you've kind of closed the door on the 'they don't exist in Eberron' argument. Jubilex wasn't a Demon type, he was a Demon Lord like Orcus. So if Juiblex gets a shoutout in DDO, who is to say that Orcus couldn't or shouldn't?

[Nevthial]

Orcus or Asmodeus.

Oh, them? I have their souls stones in my pocket.






BTW: All alternate realities are accessible to each other even if they are typically noncoterminous through the plane of Shadow........It's even stated as such in the Manual of the Planes. This is why we have things such as Murlynd's Spoon in Eberron. ( He is the most infamous plane traveller in D&D history.)

[Chazzie]

I did mention how awsome it would be to stumble into Orcus at the end of a new raid on a different thread. It would have to be imo the toughest fight ever in DDO with his wand and abililties, The story line could go something like Orcus himself is overseeing a project for whatever ,thats why he's in Eberron and not on his plane.That would be one place i think none of us would like to visit.I could see it now in LFM "We need 6 more clerics" lol OOOOO~yea if you where lucky enough to win the battle his wand should fall on the ground roflol so new people can try to pick it up roflol now that would be funny,(you die if you arm yourself with it ,if I remember right or was that Asmodeus?)

Asmodeus~would be very awsome.The problem with this would be you made it to his room, take two steps in.If you where a Paly you would drop dead and if you where anything else you would you would be kissing his ring.Come to think of it wouldnt the Paly turn to a Anti Paly?(remember them?) I bet he would it would be like a prize on the mantle of his fire place lol?Anywho my point is if he didnt turn you to the dark side , you would be dead you cant get close enough to him to even cast a spell let alone swing your sword.


Post #15 of this thread is Spot on imo


Sorry for poor grammer/I work with #'s for a living lol

[UnderwearModel]

Eldritch Wizardry Supplement III by Gygax & Blume copyright 1976

Demogorgon is on pages 36 & 37 of the supplement

[Coldest]

I recently came back to DDO and I am so pleased to see other people playing online. I used to play the old pnp game and remember some of the tougher enemies such as Orcus or Asmodeus. I hope to see these baddies introduced in a chain quest sometime in the future. With the live event in SR and the most recent module perhaps we are on the path to see these villains in the future.

Welcome back Moonglum.

Coldest (Darc)

[Chazzie]

Please dont mistake for a rant

From post #27
No disrespect to you, but you are quite wrong: Eberron has an entirely separate set of planes, which follow different rules from the other settings. This was done on purpose.

Just because the Planescape setting worked like that does not mean it applies to ALL planes that will ever be created for new settings.

And post #28 Makes a point or two yes

I mean No disrespect to the posts listed.Im just useing them as a prime example.

It seems people here at DDO,for some reason forgot or didnt know there is only one rule to D&D. That rule is "THERE ARE NO RULES" All our HB's,Drag Magz,and other forms of information are nothing but guidlines.Nothing in D&D is set in stone. Ive been a DM for PnP for more years than i would like to think of and at my table you go everywhere from Basic to 3.5 and everything in between and 4.0 will be on its way someday in our adventures Im sure.

To sum it up~You can do anything and go anywhere , It just depends on your DM and where he/she takes you =)

Side Bar~4.0 is a let down imo

Anywho~ I wish you all Happy Hunting and May all your rolls be 20's~

[Uska]

oh this is back

[Uska]

I did mention how awsome it would be to stumble into Orcus at the end of a new raid on a different thread. It would have to be imo the toughest fight ever in DDO with his wand and abililties, The story line could go something like Orcus himself is overseeing a project for whatever ,thats why he's in Eberron and not on his plane.That would be one place i think none of us would like to visit.I could see it now in LFM "We need 6 more clerics" lol OOOOO~yea if you where lucky enough to win the battle his wand should fall on the ground roflol so new people can try to pick it up roflol now that would be funny,(you die if you arm yourself with it ,if I remember right or was that Asmodeus?)

Asmodeus~would be very awsome.The problem with this would be you made it to his room, take two steps in.If you where a Paly you would drop dead and if you where anything else you would you would be kissing his ring.Come to think of it wouldnt the Paly turn to a Anti Paly?(remember them?) I bet he would it would be like a prize on the mantle of his fire place lol?Anywho my point is if he didnt turn you to the dark side , you would be dead you cant get close enough to him to even cast a spell let alone swing your sword.


Post #15 of this thread is Spot on imo


Sorry for poor grammer/I work with #'s for a living lol



they dont belong in eberron period we would face the lords of dust or something lilke that .

[Seneca_Windforge]

Well they are devils and demons so they can travel wherever...

Eberron is a "closed" universe, so in theory that's not possible.

They've been done to death anyway. Give me unique creatures, please.

[Aspenor]

they dont belong in eberron period we would face the lords of dust or something lilke that .

Completely wrong. Keith Baker, the creator of Eberron, has specifically said that anything and everything that appears in other settings has its own place in Eberron.

[Uska]

Completely wrong. Keith Baker, the creator of Eberron, has specifically said that anything and everything that appears in other settings has its own place in Eberron.

its also been said it doesnt connect to those other places so there are confilicting points it was is said besides your just trying to argue again as usuall or just argue with me I notice you didnt argue with seneca

[Aspenor]

its also been said it doesnt connect to those other places so there are confilicting points it was is said besides your just trying to argue again as usuall or just argue with me I notice you didnt argue with seneca

he is also wrong. i read your post first.

the fact that it doesn't "connect" is irrelevant. it has been specifically stated by the CREATOR of the setting that everything from DnD has its place in Eberron, whether it's documented or not.

[Banegrivm]

Those are both Forgotten Realms baddies ....... wont likely find them in the Ebberron setting.

Both of those are actually from the World of Greyhawk. You can find both of them and their stats listed in the 1E Monster Manual. As time went on they became used in other editions of D&D. The Greyhawk IP is unfortunately owned by Gary Gygax's widow and won't allow WOTC to use anything that is "Greyhawk". Legally however, they can take those characters and move them over into other D&D IP's. Orcus and Asmodeus are apart of the entire D&D cosmology.

[Hobgoblin51]

15 year old necro. well done.













dont do it again.

[brian14]

Well, Orcus is Prince of the Undead, after all

[Cordovan]

closing as /necro