First, Last, Most

[KiwiJoe]

World of Warcraft - Whoeva scores the 1st point of damage gets the kill

DDO - Whoeva scores the last point of damge gets the kill

Surely everyone can can see the floors in both these systems. Wouldn't whoeva scores the most damage (tie = kill goes to last point of damge) be the best system?

While your working on that how about a "total hit points healed" counter along side the kill count. :)

[Attomic]

This has been discussed before, with a number of camps each holding firmly to their position and not ceding one inch. Some people think the whole kill-count thing should be reduced just to total number of monsters killed by the party, avoiding all "i pwnz0rz j00z" arguments. :)

[Sheezgame]

Using whoever scores the most damage is equally as flawed.

The best solution is to not take any notice of the kill count, but I guess it serves some peoples vanity :).

[Spell]

You're in a group... the group got the kill.
You solo'd the quest... you got the kill.
Problem solved.

[Leyoni]

Kill count is meaningless. And, honestly, I don't care as long as I'm able to complete the adventure successfully.

If I could, I'd turn off the information. Too many people think it is a status item. Then they run off trying to get the kills, complaining if they are behind or if the kill doesn't get credited to them, or brag about their numbers. No real problem except when they zerg off on their mad killing rampage and eat up party resources. Or, worse, get themselves and everyone else killed in the process.

I'll stand in a doorway and shieldblock all day long and let the casters slag everything and not think a thing about it. Getting through the adventure is the most important thing. If it is my turn to do the killing then great. If not, then that's great too.

[Attomic]

Kill count is meaningless. And, honestly, I don't care as long as I'm able to complete the adventure successfully.

If I could, I'd turn off the information. Too many people think it is a status item. Then they run off trying to get the kills, complaining if they are behind or if the kill doesn't get credited to them, or brag about their numbers. No real problem except when they zerg off on their mad killing rampage and eat up party resources. Or, worse, get themselves and everyone else killed in the process.

I'll stand in a doorway and shieldblock all day long and let the casters slag everything and not think a thing about it. Getting through the adventure is the most important thing. If it is my turn to do the killing then great. If not, then that's great too.

Testify, brother Ley. Reminds of the people saying fighters/whatever are "obsolete" or "useless" - we ALL take turns being little more than the party's pack mule, and emotional maturity involves an acceptance of the fact. :)

[Grond]

Using whoever scores the most damage is equally as flawed.

The best solution is to not take any notice of the kill count, but I guess it serves some peoples vanity :).

Vanity (sung to "Tragedy" by the BeeGees)

Here I lie
in a dark and lonely corridor
Held and died
When I ran off to raise my score
Can't res out
I just can't make it back alone
I really should be pwning you
Pwning you
Outscoring you Outscoring you

Vanity
When you're feeling leet and you must compete
It's vanity
When your kill count's high but your party dies
It's hard to win
With no-one to heal you you're
dead in the end
Vanity
When you lose control and you got no soul
It's vanity
When your kill count's high but your party dies
It's hard to win
With no-one to heal you you're
dead in the end
When your party's gone and you can't go on

Run ahead
'Cause kill count pwnzers everything
Gotta kill
Before the sorcs can finger things
Down I go
Without heals I can't take them all
I really should be pwning you
Pwning you
Outscoring you Outscoring you

Vanity
When you're feeling leet and you must compete
It's vanity
When your kill count's high but your party dies
It's hard to win
With no-one to heal you you're
dead in the end
Vanity
When you lose control and you got no soul
It's vanity
When your kill count's high but your party dies
It's hard to win
With no-one to heal you you're
dead in the end


Vanity etc.

[Dane_McArdy]

World of Warcraft - Whoeva scores the 1st point of damage gets the kill

DDO - Whoeva scores the last point of damge gets the kill

Surely everyone can can see the floors in both these systems. Wouldn't whoeva scores the most damage (tie = kill goes to last point of damge) be the best system?

While your working on that how about a "total hit points healed" counter along side the kill count. :)

Or, take it out of the XP window, and let players know what they are doing for themselves. In otherwords. I can open up a personal score card while in an adventure and it will say, X mobs killed, or X damage done.

Some people like knowing what they are doing, some don't. But when put in a group context, showing indivuals, it seems to cause problems.

[Hafeal]

Or, take it out of the XP window, and let players know what they are doing for themselves. In otherwords. I can open up a personal score card while in an adventure and it will say, X mobs killed, or X damage done.

Some people like knowing what they are doing, some don't. But when put in a group context, showing indivuals, it seems to cause problems.

I like this idea. It would be nice if you could look at xp data outside of a dungeon too. Often I want to look back but forget to hit the x button before leaving - did I get the x bonus on that? Oh, how much xp was that again? Definitely not a high priority, but it would be nice if the data was somewhere (for example, put the info as a button option in the compendium listing, info would only be for the most recent completed turn through). You could then include the kill count there.

[Aesop]

Vanity (sung to "Tragedy" by the BeeGees)

[etc.[/I]

I'm sorry you lose... you used BEEGEEs song for gods' sake... wwhat's next Barry Manilow

Aesop

[Kreaper]

I agree with the party kills only camp. Get rid of the individual kill count. This is supposed to be a team game. As it stands, what good is the kill count at all? How many times have you beat a monster to within a couple of hit points only to have someone else run up and finish it off? Did they EARN that kill. No. But the end result is the same. The mob was killed and the GROUP has made progress.



Groups like the BeeGees and performers like Michael Bolton, Barry Manilow sure did make a lot of money to have been so bad. I never have understood how such popular groups/individuals could be so wildly popular for years, make so many millions of dollars, sell millions of albums and then become the butts of so many jokes years later. :rolleyes:

[Ringos]

I'm sorry you lose... you used BEEGEEs song for gods' sake... wwhat's next Barry Manilow

Aesop

Geez, throw in John Denver* and you are hittin' all my buttons! :)

*see sig

[Grond]

I'm sorry you lose... you used BEEGEEs song for gods' sake... wwhat's next Barry Manilow

Aesop

Sure!

When I'm playing my cleric and I'm nearly out of spellpoints, I announce I'm at the Copa.



You know... Mana low. :D

[Ringos]

Sure!

When I'm playing my cleric and I'm nearly out of spellpoints, I announce I'm at the Copa.



You know... Mana low. :D

*groan

At the end of a raid, is it 'Looks Like We Made It'?!?!

[Grond]

*groan

At the end of a raid, is it 'Looks Like We Made It'?!?!

Nope, it's usually "I want it all" as the group makes a mad dash for the chests. :D

[moorewr]

I say.. either no stats (except maybe total kills and player deaths for the group, not individuals) unless you expand it to 'damage done/kills/damage received/deaths' - heck, throw in damage per swing for the number crunching metagamers. :)

[Grond]

I say.. either no stats (except maybe total kills and player deaths for the group, not individuals) unless you expand it to 'damage done/kills/damage received/deaths' - heck, throw in DPS per swing for the number crunching metagamers. :)

Oh lord, if you threw in 'official' DPS the "_____need to be nerfed!" and, "My class is useless since the last update!" posts would go through the roof.

[moorewr]

Oh lord, if you threw in 'official' DPS the "_____need to be nerfed!" and, "My class is useless since the last update!" posts would go through the roof.

Exactly! The howls of forum wars are music to my ears. :)

[unionyes]

All the XP log needs is the following.

Quest Name and Level
XP Adjusters due to level of character vs. quest

Monsters Killed Total.
Traps Disabled Total.
Breakables Broken Total.

Bonuses.

Total XP.

If we really wanted to have instant gratification and/or vindication of our uber play and builds, we would want something like on Dance Dance Revolution that says 'You're Great!!' across the screen in big balloon letters every time you land an attack.

[moorewr]

If we really wanted to have instant gratification and/or vindication of our uber play and builds, we would want something like on Dance Dance Revolution that says 'You're Great!!' across the screen in big balloon letters every time you land an attack.

DEVS! Get to work on this right away!

[Naturelaughslast]

Kill count...hmmm. The "kill count" has always been a relative thing- whoever delivers the killing blow gets the credit. Although the system is flawed I find it useful at only the lower levels with melee's being stronger. At higher levels with MUCH more power and the caster/fighter gap widening the "kill count" becomes irrelevant. Casters tend to pile up the kills and outdo many of the melees. A good amount of people look at the numbers as a good reason to reroll because their build is "gimped" but the truth is, by this point in the game you should not care about the numbers. Teamwork and playing your class well are MUCH more importent. I have a twf str ranger who often lead the kill counts by huge numbers but as he raises his level the game favors castors and balances out more in some ways. He is NOT gimped because of this and is a solid build. The fact is by lvl 16 you should have gotten over the silly kill count stats. They are there for the sake of vanity but the system is hit or miss at best. The kill count is there because the statistic is easy to track and people are masters of the obvious. The other statictics not easily tracked in the game...healing/bard buffs/cc are often overlooked. I see this quite a bit playing my capped bard who's techniques are more subtle and not as flashy. Maybe if we had a way to track those it would be a bigger deal. Point being you do not get any "kills" without the help of others and you need to get over the inconsistant numbers. The kill count is fine the way it is and if you are looking at that to show how uber your character is maybe you should invest more in teamwork.

[Zenako]

One thing that would be useful is also something like a countdown log for some of the bonus like Conquest, or Ransack etc.

Breaking boxes and you are at 10 left for the next bonus level, etc, until you max the bonus. In some quests it would be very useful to know that to move from the +15% to the +25% bonus you only need to kill 2 more mobs or of you need to find and kill 20 more mobs. Would settle a lot party arguements sometimes about how reasonable it was to work on some of those bonuses.

[Heladron]

I think that kill count is a detriment to the game. It's just one more reason for a hooplehead to run up ahead of the group so he/she can start to measure how big their Two-handed Sword is.

I tend to think it's more of a male thing, but I know some vain females. I haven't grouped with any females who wanted to show how uber they were, but there must be two or three in the thousands of players out there.

One statistic that would probably be easy to add would be to append your personal kill count with that little XP message that shows up in the General window as you complete the mission. That way the strokers could get off on them self and the rest of us could relish that the adventure was over and we got through it.

I just get so tired of getting the occasional person in the group that has to keep bringing it up every couple seconds hoping they get a, "You're so great! We're all just nOObz compared to you. Please show us some more of your l33t skills. I dream about you when I sleep cuz I'm so jealous of how many kills you got in that quest."

[Lizardgrad89]

Kill count is meaningless. And, honestly, I don't care as long as I'm able to complete the adventure successfully.

If I could, I'd turn off the information. Too many people think it is a status item. Then they run off trying to get the kills, complaining if they are behind or if the kill doesn't get credited to them, or brag about their numbers. No real problem except when they zerg off on their mad killing rampage and eat up party resources. Or, worse, get themselves and everyone else killed in the process.

I'll stand in a doorway and shieldblock all day long and let the casters slag everything and not think a thing about it. Getting through the adventure is the most important thing. If it is my turn to do the killing then great. If not, then that's great too.


Kill count isn't entirely meaningless. It does give some information, as long as you know how to read it.

For example: I was in one of the Tomb quests a while back with my battle rogue and a group with 4 tanks and a cleric. After the first couple of skirmishes, I noticed that I had 28 of the 33 kills, so I asked, "does ANYBODY have a ghost touch weapon besides me?" (I was TWF with a ghost touch of GUB and a ghost touch of pure good). The answer was "no", so I explained to them that we were never going to make it, if it was basically a robe-wearing hobbit and a cleric. So we broke group (or at least, I left).

But the point is, without that kill count, I wouldn't have realized that I was the only effective fighter, and a party wipe would surely have been forthcoming. I mean, I like my little rogue, and she has a nice backstab, but for her, being main tank=faceplant.

(Ironically, my primary style with that toon is to put on precision and break out the paralyzer/cursespewer combo and let the tanks get the kills. Doesn't work with undead, though, obviously)

Kill count as a MEASURE OF SUCCESS, though, is meaningless. I measure success by three things:

1. Finishing the quest in a reasonable amount of time (doesn't mean zergng, but not three hours to finish Von 3, either)
2. Low # of deaths/recalls to recharge mana.
3. The group gets along, works well together, and has fun.

Who killed what? Who cares!

Now, if you want to talk about a REALLY meaningless stat, let's discuss the BREAKABLES count...

[Snoggy]

I say.. either no stats (except maybe total kills and player deaths for the group, not individuals) unless you expand it to 'damage done/kills/damage received/deaths' - heck, throw in DPS per swing for the number crunching metagamers. :)


How does one calculate Damage Per Second Per Swing?

[moorewr]

How does one calculate Damage Per Second Per Swing?

You are a silly person, and you made me edit my post.

[Aesop]

Geez, throw in John Denver* and you are hittin' all my buttons! :)

*see sig

Hey I like John Denver he at least stood up for freedom of speech :D

Aesop

[Snoggy]

You are a silly person, and you made me edit my post.


You are one of the few who actually gets my sense of humor! Thank you for that!

[moorewr]

You are one of the few who actually gets my sense of humor! Thank you for that!

:)

[Mindspat]

Honesty, who gives a Kobolds Behind who get's "the" kill!?!

[brshelton]

I was in a Tor group the other day and we get to the end and the barbarian goes Wow you outkilled me its been a long time since that happened blah blah blah.... I'm just like meh my weapons favor the kill count and who cares but he goes on some more about it. I say it just lists total kills not individual.

[Gypsy_Mouse]

Who killed what? Who cares!


You said it!
But I tell you, when I'm feeling really mean, I let my healbot cleric wade in just as mobs are getting ready to die and start swinging just so I can steal a bunch of kills.
Better yet, I wait until they're almost dead and Destruction the last little bit of life out of them. Then I laugh my plate-armored butt off while the melees are still swinging. :D



Now, if you want to talk about a REALLY meaningless stat, let's discuss the BREAKABLES count...


Shush! Sometimes that's the only way I get on the scoreboard! :p

At least until they put in a "Healed X, Y times"

or

"Healed collective pixilated butts and saved the group from certain failure"

[QuantumFX]

I'm sorry you lose... you used BEEGEEs song for gods' sake... wwhat's next Barry Manilow

Aesop

Switchfoot FTW!!!

Oh Vanity!
(With apologies to the Foreman's)

There's some damage
to your red bar
Away from the entrance
where the clerics are
By the boss fight
pass the tripped trap
He'll keep you company
til we rez your a**

In the same quest
where the clerics are
They're all wondering
Where the hell you are
By the boss fight
past the tripped trap
He'll keep you company
til we rez your a**

Oh Vanity!
Why can't we all zerg it together?
You S.O.B.
Why can't we all zerg it together?

In the backroom
Of the quest you're on
There's a blue dot
Where you're fallen
With a soulstone
And no red bar
Watch the party chat
point out what a jerk you are!

Oh Vanity!
Why can't we all zerg it together?
You stupid SOB
Why can't we all zerg it together?

What tragedy?
Why can't we all zerg it together?
Oh Vanity!
Why can't we all zerg it together?

In the fallout, the fallout
We found out the hype won't get you through
Connected, connected
I mean it, the hype won't get you through

Oh Vanity!
Why can't we all zerg it together?
Oh Vanity!
Why can't we all zerg it together?
What tragedy!
We can't we all zerg it together?
Oh Vanity!
Why can't we all zerg it together?

Lalala...

Lets zerg it together

[Attomic]

hooplehead

*commits larceny so he can own the shiny new snark*

Translation: I'm so stealing that.

[knghtstalkr]

I would love to see these end of quest stat:

Player XXX was healed for ##### hitpoints worth of damage.
Player YYY was healed for ##### hitpoints worth of damage.
Player ZZZ was healed for ##### hitpoints worth of damage.
etc...
etc...

I wouldn't need to know who did the healing... it could be assumed that the healing was done by the party healer. This stat would include hp healed from pots and heal spells. It would reflect repair for warforgies.

--AND--

Player XXX died ### times.
Player YYY died ### times.
Player ZZZ died ### times.
etc...
etc...

*smirk*

I would love to compare a killmeister kill tally to the amount of healing it took to keep them alive, or the amount of rezzes it took to keep them going. If someone is going to claim kill count uberness, then they better have low numbers for these stats to begin to impress me.

Plus, it is subtle cleric love!

[Hvymetal]

Meh, don;t care either way if your a tard and only worried about kill count I only have to worry about you in the current quest, you'll probablly never group with me again. However it is fun to tease people about the kill count, ever since I picked up a wounding/punsturing shortsword on my Rogue Tactile I have noticed that he tops or nearly tops the kill counts in quests with stat damagable mobs now, it is nice to knock the sorces and barbs down a notch if they start to get uppity. Now I just need to get my hands on a Rapier, *walks off cackling maniaclly to himself*

[Memnir]

I've said it before - and I'm sure to say it again... I don't care how it dies, just so long as it dies.
Did the Sorc/Wiz go on a PK, FoD, FireWalls frenzy? Great!
Did the melee types get crazy with the vorpals? Great!
Was the cleric a Blade Barrier/Destruction freak? Great!

I don't care if I got the most kills or not when I'm in a group. I care that my character did it's part to complete the mission as smoothly and hassle-free as possible. I know the numbers mean a lot to some folks. These are the people who need constant reassurance of how great they are and keep a yardstick handy at all times to prove it. I tend to ignore those folks and just go about my day. :)

[Vormaerin]

There are just way too many factors in kill count to make it useful. There are quests where my bard (who is the main healer in our four man party) gets next to no kills. Normally, our rogue leads the kill count. But when we ran Haywire's Foundry, I happened to lead.. because I have a greater construct bane weapon and no one else does. So I guess that makes me the best player, huh? *Rolls eyes*

I kind of look at it in pugs on my new barbarian, because I've not played a barbarian before (I'm usually inclined towards intimitanks as melee types go) so I'm trying to judge how effective I am beyond the 'not dying, not being a manasponge' stuff I can see easily in game. But pugs are just wierd anyway; you just get stuff like warforged sorcerors with aggro affinity and no diplomacy skill in evidence.. You have to take the information with a large grain of salt.

[GlassCannon]

World of Warcraft - Whoeva scores the 1st point of damage gets the kill

DDO - Whoeva scores the last point of damge gets the kill

Surely everyone can can see the floors in both these systems. Wouldn't whoeva scores the most damage (tie = kill goes to last point of damge) be the best system?

While your working on that how about a "total hit points healed" counter along side the kill count. :)

I have on several occasions requested a Damage Dealt, Damage Taken, Damage Healed, Spellpoints used, Metamagic usage %, and various other pointless clientside counters for the XP list. It must be low on the priority list, but it sure does help people feel good about their contribution.

[Aesop]

I have on several occasions requested a Damage Dealt, Damage Taken, Damage Healed, Spellpoints used, Metamagic usage %, and various other pointless clientside counters for the XP list. It must be low on the priority list, but it sure does help people feel good about their contribution.

I'd be ok with damage dealt damage healed... Casters should rule that pretty easily though with aoe. Of course how does that work with insta death?

in the end it isn't important really... I've more than doubled entire party kill counts but that's just luck in the long run

Aesop

[dungeonrat07]

The body count number is one sided and meaningless! None of the clerics heals or wizard / clerics buffs are counted! Also when death is meaningless there is no bragging rights! In D&D when your toon dies there should be a saving threw! If the saving threw is failed the the toon loses a con point! Also some one in the forum "fighter are useless" said the barbarians at 16 th lvl have unlimited amount of rage if this is the case why does my wizard have limited amount of mana? Is this not one sided!!! I would let monster have the spell ray of Enfeeblement, unlimited just like the rest of the spells!

[dungeonrat07]

Kill count...hmmm. The "kill count" has always been a relative thing- whoever delivers the killing blow gets the credit. Although the system is flawed I find it useful at only the lower levels with melee's being stronger. At higher levels with MUCH more power and the caster/fighter gap widening the "kill count" becomes irrelevant. Casters tend to pile up the kills and outdo many of the melees. A good amount of people look at the numbers as a good reason to reroll because their build is "gimped" but the truth is, by this point in the game you should not care about the numbers. Teamwork and playing your class well are MUCH more importent. I have a twf str ranger who often lead the kill counts by huge numbers but as he raises his level the game favors castors and balances out more in some ways. He is NOT gimped because of this and is a solid build. The fact is by lvl 16 you should have gotten over the silly kill count stats. They are there for the sake of vanity but the system is hit or miss at best. The kill count is there because the statistic is easy to track and people are masters of the obvious. The other statictics not easily tracked in the game...healing/bard buffs/cc are often overlooked. I see this quite a bit playing my capped bard who's techniques are more subtle and not as flashy. Maybe if we had a way to track those it would be a bigger deal. Point being you do not get any "kills" without the help of others and you need to get over the inconsistant numbers. The kill count is fine the way it is and if you are looking at that to show how uber your character is maybe you should invest more in teamwork.

Thats right!

[dungeonrat07]

I think that kill count is a detriment to the game. It's just one more reason for a hooplehead to run up ahead of the group so he/she can start to measure how big their Two-handed Sword is.

I tend to think it's more of a male thing, but I know some vain females. I haven't grouped with any females who wanted to show how uber they were, but there must be two or three in the thousands of players out there.

One statistic that would probably be easy to add would be to append your personal kill count with that little XP message that shows up in the General window as you complete the mission. That way the strokers could get off on them self and the rest of us could relish that the adventure was over and we got through it.

I just get so tired of getting the occasional person in the group that has to keep bringing it up every couple seconds hoping they get a, "You're so great! We're all just nOObz compared to you. Please show us some more of your l33t skills. I dream about you when I sleep cuz I'm so jealous of how many kills you got in that quest."

You have a good point! I also think that the ones that need the uberness in the game are lacking in manhood or womanhood and are try to compensate. To all that read this take any way you want and to the ones that read an attack in it yes I am disrespecting you!

[dungeonrat07]

I would love to see these end of quest stat:

Player XXX was healed for ##### hitpoints worth of damage.
Player YYY was healed for ##### hitpoints worth of damage.
Player ZZZ was healed for ##### hitpoints worth of damage.
etc...
etc...

I wouldn't need to know who did the healing... it could be assumed that the healing was done by the party healer. This stat would include hp healed from pots and heal spells. It would reflect repair for warforgies.

--AND--

Player XXX died ### times.
Player YYY died ### times.
Player ZZZ died ### times.
etc...
etc...

*smirk*

I would love to compare a killmeister kill tally to the amount of healing it took to keep them alive, or the amount of rezzes it took to keep them going. If someone is going to claim kill count uberness, then they better have low numbers for these stats to begin to impress me.

Plus, it is subtle cleric love!

Hay Dvs listen up this guy told you how to do it!

[Attomic]

I've said it before - and I'm sure to say it again... I don't care how it dies, just so long as it dies.
Did the Sorc/Wiz go on a PK, FoD, FireWalls frenzy? Great!
Did the melee types get crazy with the vorpals? Great!
Was the cleric a Blade Barrier/Destruction freak? Great!

I don't care if I got the most kills or not when I'm in a group. I care that my character did it's part to complete the mission as smoothly and hassle-free as possible. I know the numbers mean a lot to some folks. These are the people who need constant reassurance of how great they are and keep a micrometer handy at all times to prove it. I tend to ignore those folks and just go about my day. :)

Agreed, and fixed it for ya. :D

[Emili]

You said it!
But I tell you, when I'm feeling really mean, I let my healbot cleric wade in just as mobs are getting ready to die and start swinging just so I can steal a bunch of kills.
Better yet, I wait until they're almost dead and Destruction the last little bit of life out of them. Then I laugh my plate-armored butt off while the melees are still swinging. :D





Shush! Sometimes that's the only way I get on the scoreboard! :p

At least until they put in a "Healed X, Y times"

or

"Healed collective pixilated butts and saved the group from certain failure"


LOL, funny thing is it's also a typical caster thing... you have a melee with agro swinging away on the mob for 6 seconds and the mob is nearly dead - the mob has 1-5% of it's hp left - the melee charater bareley touched ... then the arcane caster fod's banish's or whatever before the melee swings the killing blow - the casters do this continuously thru the quest... The same caster then before the end-boss say's to the party, wait I'll be right back going to recall for mana. :rolleyes: Having the party wait 5 minute for him to use the shrine, run back in the quest and rebuff people yet again... and have plenty of nuking mana :D

Now personally I do not really care who got the kill or what was killed by whom or how many, I could care less if you walked in there charmed the who place and let the mob kill off each other... I care bout my chests, that it was done efficiently, timely and of course completed... I care if it's costing me heal scrolls or wands or healing potions or wear and tear on my favorite khopesh or a mana potion because i had to use mana I was trying hold back from using... If I walk out of a quest and I find it cost me more time or plat then what the rewards were then that in itself is as much a failure even if I got the complete. It's not that I walk away from a bad situation but I bloody heck remember them and actually who was all involved.

[Lord_Legolas]

I dont care for the kill count that much, but from a character whom doesn't do much killing - IE: Cleric - I would like to see the 'healing' info as someone mentioned. Such as healing spells (clumped together) per character, scrolls per character, ect.

Aren't we forgetting one seemingly important thing? I've seen this repeatedly, especially with my fighters, that whom ever gets the highest kill count usually get the best loot - named loot. If this is the case, then this is what needs to be changed! Too many times I've seen that the character with the highest kill count pull named loot... While the others, whom have contributed to that high kill count very seldom get named loot! Only once did one of my clerics pull named loot and that was in Madstone Crater, the laugh-able Girdle of Giants Brawn.