Divine Rogue

[wiglin]

I remember reading Rameses post on his penitent rogue when it was first conceived and always thought it was a good build. After seeing his new post I thought why not add a couple of levels of paladin. Two levels of paladin will net a +6 increase to the builds saves. I designed a repeater version and a twf version. The twf version would be more effective especially with ranged sneak attack being alot closer than 30 feet. Everything is pretty optional as I have not rolled this guy yet. I will wait until I get another +2 Int tome. I also am undecided on the second rogue bonus feat. I have crippling strike, but I have heard mixed opinions on it.

EDIT: I have my +2 Int Tome and I have created this character.

Race: Lawful Good Halfling Male
Class: (2 Paladin / 13 Rogue / 1 Cleric)

Hit Points: 263 +30Temp =296 (-21 if you take gtwf instead of toughness)
Spell Points: 471 w/ Crafted Raid Item

Saves:
Fortitude: 21 +4Item +4GH +2Luck =31
Reflex: 23 +4Item +4GH +2Luck +1Haste =35
Will: 18 +4Item +4GH +2Luck =28

Stats:
Strength-------12 +6Item =18 (+4)
Dexterity------16 +2Tome +4Level +4Enhancement +6Item =32 (+11)
Constitution---14 +6Item =20 (+5)
Intelligence---14 +2Tome +6Item =22 (+6)
Wisdom---------10 +2Tome +6Item =18 (+4)
Charisma-------14 +1Tome +1Enhancement +6Item =22 (+6)

Tomes Used
+2 Dex
+2 Int
+2 Wis
+1 Con
+1 Cha

Skills:
Balance-----------17
Diplomacy---------25 +10Greensteel +5Greensteel +4GH =44
Disable Device----29 +15Item +1Item +1Greensteel +4GH +7Tools +5RAB =62 (DC82 Possible)
Hide--------------31
Jump--------------21
Move Silently-----31
Open Lock---------34 +15Item +4GH +7Tools +5RAB =65 (DC85 Possible)
Search------------30 +15Item +1Wand +1Greensteel +4GH +5RAB +1Item =57
Spot--------------27 +15Item +4GH =46
Tumble------------21
Use Magic Device--28 +5Greensteel +4GH +2Luck =39 /or pre-raid loot +3Item +4GH +5RAB =40

Level Progression:
Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)

Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)

Level 4 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)

Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 8 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)

Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)

Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 16 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Feats: Ranged Focused
1) Toughness
3) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow
6) Rapid Reload
9) Weapon Finesse
12) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
15) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
(Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
(Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike

Feats: Mellee Focused
1) TWF
3) Weapon Finesse
6) Skill Focus:UMD
9) ITWF
12) Improved Crit: Peircing
15) Toughness /or GTWF
(Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
(Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike

Enhancements:
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Fortitude)
Enhancement: Halfliing Luck II (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Will)
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Search III
Enhancement: Rogue Spot II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I

Attack Bonus: Ranged
11 Base
11 Dex
4 GH
4 Flanking
1 Haste
1 Racial
1 DF
3 Ammo
----------------
36
3-10 Outside Buffs / Clickies
----------------
39-46

Damage: Ranged
1d10 Base
2d6 Elemental
5 Weapon
1 DF
2 SA Training
7d6 Sneak Attack
-------------------
11-72 Per Bolt + Crit

Attack Bonus: Mellee
11 Base
11 Dex
4 GH
4 Flanking
1 Haste
1 Racial
1 DF
1-5Weapon
-------------------
34-39
-2TWF
-------------------
32-37
3-10 Outside Buffs / Clickies
-------------------
35-44

Damage: Mellee
1d6 Base
2d6 Elemental
5 Weapon
1 DF
5 Str Bonus /w Rage
2 SA Training
7d6 Sneak Attack
--------------------
14-73 + Crit

Other Benefits:
11 DV's = 11(3d4+10) =143-242 sp/shrine
1 LOH = 72 Hit Point Incap Rescuer

Spells:
L1) CLW, Divine Favor, Remove Fear, Obscuring Mist (Blur Effect)

Greensteel Goals:
Dagger: PDM, EMD, (EOE +OE) = Holy, Acid Burst, +4ac, Transmuting, Slicing, Keen, Stoneskin Clicky
Necklace: -EE, +EE, (+EE -EE) = +300sp, Int Skills +1, Cha Skills +5, Wis +6, Diplomcay +10, Haggle +10, Concordant Opposition

[Eudimio]

Egads! What are you going to do with all of those spellpoints? 1-point divine favors? 5-point cure light wounds?

[wiglin]

Egads! What are you going to do with all of those spellpoints? 1-point divine favors? 5-point cure light wounds?

They are just a side effect of the raid loot. Crafted raid loot that adds +6 to UMD also adds 300 spell points. The spell points were not the focus but they are there so I showed them.

[Rameses]

Looks good.

Honestly though Connor (Slayer187) suggested the same thing to me, but you can accomplish the same saves without taking Paladin levels.
Halfling Luck (Will 2, Fort 3 & Reflex 1.) are currently part of my enhancements and my saves at 16 are

Fort 23
Reflex 29
Will 25

Self-Buffed with GH and +4 Resist item.

-Rameses!

[wiglin]

Thanks for the feedback Rameses,

Another reason I chose paladin levels though were for the weapon proficiency's which gives a few more options on finessible vorpals, and with as much as I have been dispelled on higher end content, I wanted to have solid saves without gh. Going straight penitent rogue works well as you know since you have done it successfully, I am just a bit of a saves junky. :)

[wiglin]

Rameses,

What is your opinion on crippling strike? Is it worth it or are we instakilling too much to matter these days.

[Rameses]

Rameses,

What is your opinion on crippling strike? Is it worth it or are we instakilling too much to matter these days.

Personally the use of Vorpals in the Regular Quest on Elite is over done and much over-rate.
I look at CS as +1 AC every hit. Instead of -2 to Str.
Take it as you will.

I am, Rameses!

[Rameses]

Grrrrrrr! Retraction...
Earlier when I posted my saves that was with a Paladin in hte group and I tried to subtract the Aura that he gave from my saves.... However I mispoke.

Fort - 25
Reflex - 31
Will - 27

all with GH and resistance cloak.

[Impaqt]

Nightsheild would be a lot more effective a spell to carry over Obscuring Mist.

I would be tempted to drop the TOughness feat to work in Greater TWF intothis build.

20 HD
78 L13 Rogue
20 L2 Paly
8 L1 Cleric
80 COn Bonus
10 DV
---
18 Minos Legend
30 Greater False Life
---
264 Standing HP's without Toughness. THis is a very good HP total for a character that needs to avoid aggro to be effective.

[wiglin]

Grrrrrrr! Retraction...
Earlier when I posted my saves that was with a Paladin in hte group and I tried to subtract the Aura that he gave from my saves.... However I mispoke.

Fort - 25
Reflex - 31
Will - 27

all with GH and resistance cloak.

The 27 will save is self buffed? What is your wisdom? Those are solid saves.

[wiglin]

Nightsheild would be a lot more effective a spell to carry over Obscuring Mist.

I would be tempted to drop the TOughness feat to work in Greater TWF intothis build.

20 HD
78 L13 Rogue
20 L2 Paly
8 L1 Cleric
80 COn Bonus
10 DV
---
18 Minos Legend
30 Greater False Life
---
264 Standing HP's without Toughness. THis is a very good HP total for a character that needs to avoid aggro to be effective.

This may very well happen. I agree toughness is debatable without the full enhancement line. I also already have 20 tapestries lined up for mino's lengen, so if I feel my hitpoints are overkill as I near the cap I will swap it for gtwf.

[Impaqt]

This may very well happen. I agree toughness is debatable without the full enhancement line. I also already have 20 tapestries lined up for mino's lengen, so if I feel my hitpoints are overkill as I near the cap I will swap it for gtwf.


You wont be able to. If you take TOughness at L1, theres no way to swap in Greater 2WF because you dont meet any of the prereqs at L1.

You much better leavng toughness to level 15 and taking that instead of G2WF if you feel you realy need the 23 extra Hit points.

[Aspenor]

The 27 will save is self buffed? What is your wisdom? Those are solid saves.

He has force of personality. I think his wisdom is 8, or 9, base of course.

[wiglin]

He has force of personality. I think his wisdom is 8, or 9, base of course.

Ahh

Kinda hard to work in with twf. The twf rogue is already feat starved as it it.

[Rameses]

He has force of personality. I think his wisdom is 8, or 9, base of course.

9 base +1 Tome = 10 Starting Will, Intricate Field Optics *always on* 12 Wis.


Ahh

Kinda hard to work in with twf. The twf rogue is already feat starved as it it.

But that is the fun twinking builds... everyones gonna run it different. I'd be dissapointed if someone just copy cat'd my build without trying something new and interesting.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3264/screenshot00031di2.jpg

[wiglin]

You wont be able to. If you take TOughness at L1, theres no way to swap in Greater 2WF because you dont meet any of the prereqs at L1.

You much better leavng toughness to level 15 and taking that instead of G2WF if you feel you realy need the 23 extra Hit points.

Good point.

[wiglin]

I made some feat rearrangements and added my greensteel item goals.