new to sorc

[elric69]

Hey im still somewhat new,(my highest toon is level 10) I need some stat and begining advice and how to create a sorc. I plan on using a drow but am curious if I should max the cha. stat or not, and I am curious if I should bother using a feat so that I can use a better weapon? any advice would be apreciated. I definately want a max dammage nuker so to speak, a toon who does the max dammage possible.

[twix]

Max cha and put as much into con as possible.Why would you want a weapon when everything should be dead with a fire ball or two ;P

[philo]

Hey im still somewhat new,(my highest toon is level 10) I need some stat and begining advice and how to create a sorc. I plan on using a drow but am curious if I should max the cha. stat or not, and I am curious if I should bother using a feat so that I can use a better weapon? any advice would be apreciated. I definately want a max dammage nuker so to speak, a toon who does the max dammage possible.

Like was mentioned in the above post, max chr and as much con as you can get...for drow that means 20chr 16 con

For a nuking/damage build you will want maximize and empower feats...and every good sorc has heighten.

Max +spell dmg enhancements and all of the crit enhancements you can take.

[unionyes]

Hey im still somewhat new,(my highest toon is level 10) I need some stat and begining advice and how to create a sorc. I plan on using a drow but am curious if I should max the cha. stat or not, and I am curious if I should bother using a feat so that I can use a better weapon? any advice would be apreciated. I definately want a max dammage nuker so to speak, a toon who does the max dammage possible.

My drow sorc has maxed charisma, which is hugely important for manna and spell effectiveness. Don't waste a feat on any weapon proficiency, sorc's don't get that many feats, and you will need them for empower, maximize, and heighten. A crossbow and staff will be all you will need at lower levels, by mid level you will never be swinging at mobs anyhow, just killing them from afar.

I advise taking max and empower as soon as you can get them, take all the manna enhancements you can, and pick an elemental chain (I took fire/cold, but electric/acid can be effective too, only do repair/force if you are gonna be a wf cleric) and max them out. Take the charisma enhancements and max them as well.

At level 15, I always have max and empower on, crit for 1000+ with otilukes freezing sphere on fire types, and my firewalls do 2-300 a round. I am sure that there are higher damage numbers out there, but I don't seem to have any problems killing stuff so I am good with my damage.

Also, always get and wear the highest charisma item you can get your hands on. It increases effectiveness and manna. Build up a collection of penetration and lore items, they will help you land your spells and increase the damage they cause.

Constitution is important, because once you start doing tons of damage, you will get tons of aggro. You will need to stay alive long enough for your firewall to kill them, or until you can get off a couple of fireballs or freezing spheres. Max it as well, and hang on to the best false life and con items you can get. Once you can cast stoneskin, that will help a lot. My sorc 15 has 22 con (16 + 6 item), never goes anywhere without stoneskin (effectively another 150 hp worth of damage reduction), greater heroism, and false life.

One thing to be careful of, as a sorc when going to the 'max damage possible', you will pretty much have to focus on one type of elemental damage. Some mobs are resistant or immune to certain types of elemental damage, so always have some wands in your pack, and try to make sure you have all the bases covered as far as spells go. Even though I am fire/ice specced, I have magic missile, melfs acid arrow, pk, fod, and ball lightning, for those (rare) times when the fire and ice just won't cut it.

Edited to add oh yeah, don't forget to put points in UMD. Your charisma will be so high that you should be able to rez at higher levels. I didn't do this, and now my sorcerer is lacking.

[Yajerman01]

eventually in the higher levels you will finite your toons abilities. Magical training and improved magical training are helpful in the lower levels but as you get higher and especially when you start playing in the shroud, spell pen will play an important part.

At that point start looking into Greensteel items to place on your toons weakest item slot. FOr me Bracers were the way to go, so I invested in greensteel bracers and have tier 2 componets added onto them giving me essentially 400 sp. I point this out because at some point youll want to pick up spell pen feats and drop Magic Training and improved magic training.

The point is, Im maxed on spell pen and have the elemental enhancers maxed out - so if im not blasting Fireballs or Coneof Cold im killing with FOD or PK for the win.

As the other have said before me - max your CHar out on your drow - otherwise your essential gimping an already powerful race.

[CSFurious]

not needed

bards & rogues raise the dead for when there is no cleric

get your sor, the pouch of jerky from the dq raid & cast false life constantly & you got self-healing

a sor would be better served putting all skill-points just into concentration, haggle, jump & diplomacy

why?

concentration: always want to get that spell off when being struck by the enemy

haggle: being rich is good, you can never have enough plat

jump: you can never jump high enough to escape from the enemy (i got the jump spell, what happens when you run out of mana, potions, scrolls &/or clickies & the spell runs out, you going to cry because you cannot make that jump or be able to make it?)

diplomacy: you can never shed enough aggro off of your squishy self & onto those in your party better able to take the aggro

or you can put points into UMD, wand-whip yourself with a cmw & cast gh on yourself & maybe on your 3rd scroll (wasting 2 just cost you 13,000 gold) until you get all the necessary uber-equipment raise the dead or use a heal scroll

that is not spectacular IMO

i am sure some sor with umd is going to cry now, but it still does not make the aforementioned points any less true

sorry in advance

[Aspenor]

not needed

bards & rogues raise the dead for when there is no cleric

get your sor, the pouch of jerky from the dq raid & cast false life constantly & you got self-healing

a sor would be better served putting all skill-points just into concentration, haggle, jump & diplomacy

why?

concentration: always want to get that spell off

haggle: being rich is good

jump: you can never jump high enough to escape from the enemy

diplomacy: you can never shed enough aggro

or you can put points into UMD, wand-whip yourself with a cmw & cast gh on yourself & maybe on your 3rd scroll (wasting 2 just cost you 13,000 gold) raise the dead

that is not spectacular IMO

i am sure some sor with umd is going to cry now, but it still does not make the aforementioned points any less true

sorry in advance

I couldn't disagree more with having haggle and jump on a sorcerer for skills. Jump essentially caps at 40, with each additional point adding so little that it can be considered negligible. Haggle....well you'll have a fine haggle with a good item and high charisma.

If you're going to roll a toon with haggle, make a bard.

UMD for a sorc is more useful than either of these. You can do a lot more than cast a ress. You can self heal, you can cast restoration to restore neg levels, and you can even cast heal scrolls if you get enough twinked loot.

If you're taking jump and haggle on a sorc you might as well take listen and tumble instead.

[Mhykke]

not needed

bards & rogues raise the dead for when there is no cleric

get your sor, the pouch of jerky from the dq raid & cast false life constantly & you got self-healing

a sor would be better served putting all skill-points just into concentration, haggle, jump & diplomacy

why?

concentration: always want to get that spell off

haggle: being rich is good

jump: you can never jump high enough to escape from the enemy

diplomacy: you can never shed enough aggro

or you can put points into UMD, wand-whip yourself with a cmw & cast gh on yourself & maybe on your 3rd scroll (wasting 2 just cost you 13,000 gold) raise the dead

that is not spectacular IMO

i am sure some sor with umd is going to cry now, but it still does not make the aforementioned points any less true

sorry in advance

I have to disagree on the UMD. Sorcs can get pretty high (especially considering crafting), at least high enough to raise dead w/o failure, and use heal scrolls fairly regularly.

I'd skip the points into jump. Jump spell, get yourself some featherfall boots of jump +10, and you're at the max effectiveness for jumping in the game, w/o spending a single skill point.

Put those points into UMD.

[Vesuvia]

For starters don't be a drow.

*The highest possible CHA a drow can currently get is 39, compared to a Human's 38 which makes no difference, and the human will have MANY more HP*

Keep running favor for 32 pt build.

Human

Max Cha/Con leave the rest at 8, this may seem bad at first but after a +3 tome or +6 item your still lookin at a 17 in your low stats. Where as your "High" stats your lookin at a 28(30 when raged)Con, and up to a 38 Cha at high end.

Stat on lvls: All cha

Feats: Maximize, Empower, Heighten, Extend, Force of Personality, Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness

Skills: +1 UMD, Concentration per lvl (If your taking anything besides these 2 skills REROLL)

*At high end your going to be able to get to a 42.5 UMD straight sorc without the feat*
*Obviously wonderful when heal scrolls are a 40 UMD*

Saves: At high end with boots of the innocent, head of good fortune, greater hero, human versatility, you know the nice buffing stuff =) Your going to be looking at around;

Fort: 28
Reflex: 22
Will: 37

AC: Um, utterly worthless. If you see ANY sorc that tries to tell you they have 40+ ac and it's good. Tell them to reroll IMMEDIATELY. They are gimped so badly it's unreal, either by not using useful gear to boost there spell casting abilities and instead wearing +AC or they have basically no con or cha due to taking dex. Blur/Displacement + Stoneskin is all you need.

Enhancements: All fire/cold specs, All sps specs, 2 maximize, 1 empower, 1 human versatility, 1 scroll/wand, 1 elect/acid dmg/crit %, All cha, Human con/cha, 1 Spell Pen

Honestly, I'm only using firewall/cone of cold really anymore from my fire/cold speccing but it's still well worth it. Alot of buffs, but most frequently using FoD, Mass Suggestion, Disentigrate, with options in Sunburst (Vol runnin!), ball lightning (Alternating with Cone vs MANY devils).

[Harncw]

not needed

bards & rogues raise the dead for when there is no cleric

get your sor, the pouch of jerky from the dq raid & cast false life constantly & you got self-healing

a sor would be better served putting all skill-points just into concentration, haggle, jump & diplomacy

why?

concentration: always want to get that spell off

haggle: being rich is good

jump: you can never jump high enough to escape from the enemy

diplomacy: you can never shed enough aggro

or you can put points into UMD, wand-whip yourself with a cmw & cast gh on yourself & maybe on your 3rd scroll (wasting 2 just cost you 13,000 gold) raise the dead

that is not spectacular IMO

i am sure some sor with umd is going to cry now, but it still does not make the aforementioned points any less true

sorry in advance

I disagree about maxing your jump, jump is a lvl 1 spell. and the clerics will love you for carrying it. Also it supposedly caps out at some point, and casters that jump around like wild injuns are so mod 5!

I also disagree about maxing your haggle, it changes what like 5% (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Haggle)? so you would have 105kpp instead of 100kpp? 1,050,000 pp instead off 1,000,000? Not too mention you have a high cha and that is the modifer for haggle...

And my sorc hits a raise dead scroll on a 1, and heals about 50/50... keep in mind that some people can do better.

[CSFurious]

my point is that it is not necessary

is it cool to wand-whip yourself & use a raise dead scroll? i guess so from the defense of sor-umd so far

anyway, i got a level 16 sor & i never regretted not having umd

& if i ever roll another sor, i am not putting any skill points into umd

i agree with jump capping out at 40, but haggle can never be high enough IMO especially for casual players as they need all the plat they can get or save


I couldn't disagree more with having haggle and jump on a sorcerer for skills. Jump essentially caps at 40, with each additional point adding so little that it can be considered negligible. Haggle....well you'll have a fine haggle with a good item and high charisma.

If you're going to roll a toon with haggle, make a bard.

UMD for a sorc is more useful than either of these. You can do a lot more than cast a ress. You can self heal, you can cast restoration to restore neg levels, and you can even cast heal scrolls if you get enough twinked loot.

If you're taking jump and haggle on a sorc you might as well take listen and tumble instead.

[Aspenor]

my point is that it is not necessary

is it cool to wand-whip yourself & use a raise dead scroll? i guess so from the defense of sor-umd so far

anyway, i got a level 16 sor & i never regretted not having umd

& if i ever roll another sor, i am not putting any skill points into umd

i agree with jump capping out at 40, but haggle can never be high enough IMO especially for casual players as they need all the plat they can get or save
Clerics must love you :rolleyes:

[CSFurious]

my sor has 189 hitpoints unbuffed & needs a cleric/bard bad sometimes (i need to get that minos legen still)

i believe in letting everyone have a role in the party, i.e., i kill & control stuff & the cleric/bard heals me

idk maybe if i roll a human sor i will put points into umd for soloing purposes, but i doubt it as i have too many characters right now as it is

peace


Clerics must love you :rolleyes:

[Vesuvia]

CSFurious...um...REROLL immediately.

Haggle?!?! If you NEVER take any points into haggle you can still get it into the 40+ easily.

You could have 331 +36 hp (rage, false life, greater hero'd) max human sorc, without EVER taking the toughness feat..
and that's not to say you'll still be able to have well over 2600+ sps

Seriously be self sufficient, nobody wants to baby a squishy sorc. Be a power house.

Just the other day was in pt 4 shroud, our 3 clerics and many others died..when he was at 60% life. The remaining 2 fighters, 1 ranger and 1 paladin along with my Sorc STILL beat him with me switching to healing after killing gnolls.

[CSFurious]

not really, but i am trying to be more polite

anyway, i am real glad you can wand-whip yourself & use raise dead scrolls, must come in handy 5% of the time

i just cast stoneskin, blur/displacement, haste & jump & start casting, i think i die less than 5% of the time while adventuring with that character

also, i am sure that the OP who is likely a pretty new player will be able to get his build just like yours in about 2 years, i.e., about the time that you got yours together

as to being non-squishy & self-sufficent, just roll a wf sor or wizard

also, clerics in PUGS are babysitters in this game, they might not like that, but they are

i do not need a baby-sitter when i can enchant the entire dungeon

CSFurious...um...REROLL immediately.

Haggle?!?! If you NEVER take any points into haggle you can still get it into the 40+ easily.

You could have 331 hp max human sorc, without EVER taking the toughness feat..
and that's not to say you'll still be able to have well over 2600+ sps

[Aspenor]

my sor has 189 hitpoints unbuffed & needs a cleric/bard bad


i do not need a baby-sitter when i can enchant the entire dungeon

:confused::confused::confused:

[CSFurious]

i do not charm undead with this build & therefore rely on aoe spells & might take damage

i also rely on the finger for self-protection & we all know how that works against the undead

also, i need clerics bad for dv's

honestly, the pouch of jerky, false life & gh work really well in combination with respect to keeping a sor alive


:confused::confused::confused:

[Vesuvia]

anyway, i am real glad you can wand-whip yourself & use raise dead scrolls, must come in handy 5% of the time


Who carries wands?

I always have a minimum of 400 heal scrolls 400 CSW pots and 100 resurrect scrolls.

No it doesnt take 2 years to build a character like mine either. Just build it and get in them raids and start gathering proper gear.

BTW, pouch of jerky sucks. Really should be wearing Head of Good Fortune for stacking +2 saves/skills. If you want a slow ticking hp item get a Jungle cloak or two, and honestly if you want GFL (Greater False Life) item, get the Belt of Brute Strength from Titan. +6 str 30+ hp is way nicer =)

[Vesuvia]

also, clerics are babysitters in this game, they might not like that, but they are


No they aren't.

[Aspenor]

A smart cleric would rather carry soul stones than babysit.

[unionyes]

I guess you don't 'need' UMD, if everyone is playing a specific role in the party. Outside of guild runs, I would say that happens about half the time.

Unfortunately, sometimes a rez can be really important. Sure the rogue or the bard can rez the cleric if he dies. What if there is no rogue or bard, which is pretty common in a lot of groups? What if all three of them die, and happen to die far away from a handy shrine?

I am just saying that there have been many times when being able to rez would have been a quest saver. As for haggle, I spend tons of plat on potions, wands are a lot cheaper so there's plat saved right there. As for selling vendor junk, a gh does me just fine. And jump is a very popular spell, I throw it on myself, the cleric, and anyone else who asks for it. It's cheap, and it's handy to have. Stoneskin isn't as cheap, but it is very popular as well. And as far as the cost of rez scrolls goes, my rogue carries some and pulls them off at 70%. A sorc, with a much higher charisma but probably less points into UMD could do that. It isn't like you will be doing it all the time, just in emergencies. And IMO, if you possibly can you should carry some rez scrolls and a wand or two anyhow on all your toons because clerics use them a lot and you should be contributing to the healing costs.

If it looks like the party is going to wipe and a shrine is too far away or guarded, on my rogue I go into sneak mode and wait until the coast is clear and then rez the cleric, which has saved more than one party wipe. If my sorc had UMD like she should have, I could wand myself invisible and do the same thing. If I could, I would trade the points that I put into jump for UMD in a second.

I realize that everyone plays differently, and thats a good thing, because having a lot of cookie cutter toons out there would get boring fast. But the OP asked for advice, and mine was (in part) to max UMD. That's what I am doing with my lowbie.

[Aspenor]

An important point of note...

Any sorc admitting to not having UMD would find themselves ostracized eventually, unless they only play with a small group of people. Admit to enough parties that can't heal yourself and can't ress the cleric as a sorc and you will find your sorc unwanted.

It's just the reality of the state of the game. It's the difference between being loved by healers, and being hated by them.

[Yajerman01]

no one has mentioned it, but high UMD also lets you bypass race requirements on items too.

[CSFurious]

for you because you are a sorceror that uses heal & res scrolls

if i wanted to carry 400 heal & rez scrolls, i would have rolled a cleric

do not bring any clerics on your next shroud raid, just umd sors, please advise us how it goes


No they aren't.

[Vesuvia]

I can only put how I built my sorc, and if you do the same I guarantee you will be VERY impressed of it's capabilities. However I don't play Alts as I don't feel like I need to. Just about everything I want to do I can do already. No of course I don't do good melee or good healing by any means and I'm not trying to but I have the capability to do them alright which is fine. In the shroud when we're beatin down portals? in between haste/raging/mass suggesting you'll find me dual wielding greater construct banes and helpin them fighters out ya know =)


I already told you that a few nights ago our 3 clerics, another sorc, and 3 tanks died when he was at 60% in pt 4 and myself, 2 fighters, 1 ranger, 1 paladin (who did die at about 20% because he tried to get just one more shot off instead of backing out) still pulled it off. It was UBER =) And yes I'm thouroughly convinced you don't even need clerics with capable sorcerers and tanks. It will be harder but possible.

[Aspenor]

The point here is not a sorc playing healer, the point is about being self sufficient.

I need no class in my party to stay alive. I don't need tanks, I don't need a rogue, and I don't need a cleric or a bard.

The point is, when the **** hits the fan, do you need a nanny or can you take care of yourself?

I'm pretty sure that you can figure out which one is preferable.

[Vesuvia]

for you because you are a sorceror that uses heal & res scrolls

if i wanted to carry 400 heal & rez scrolls, i would have rolled a cleric



Well that's being rather selfish and not contributing or helping to the party in other ways you should be capable of doing.

[CSFurious]

i would estimate that 75% of wizards & sors have no umd

maybe amongst the elite of the elite

but, amongst the lesser mortals who play the game i have never encountered this attitude

you still need arcane casters, i have been on 50+ raids in this game & i cannot ever remember a sorceror who has had to use any healing or rez scrolls during the raid

healers hate players who either do not know how to play or fail to make a donation

& anyway by the time you get to level 16, you will be playing with the same people most of the time anyway if you are in a guild & if you are "somewhat" normal

IMO there are a lot of other things to worry about in end-game quests versus worrying about whether or not the sor can use a heal scroll or not

An important point of note...

Any sorc admitting to not having UMD would find themselves ostracized eventually, unless they only play with a small group of people. Admit to enough parties that can't heal yourself and can't ress the cleric as a sorc and you will find your sorc unwanted.

It's just the reality of the state of the game. It's the difference between being loved by healers, and being hated by them.

[Vesuvia]

The point here is not a sorc playing healer, the point is about being self sufficient.





That is exactly my point. I'm not a cleric. I'm a Sorc and built purely to dominate and destroy in all situations. However, I don't need anyone to keep me alive either. I can use heal scrolls and fail on 1's only, for 121 a heal. Not a cleric, but not shabby in dire situations.

Actually if I'm forming a raid and I know one sorc has heal/res capabilities and one doesnt..the one that doesnt will NEVER make it in my group.

[philo]

my point is that it is not necessary

is it cool to wand-whip yourself & use a raise dead scroll? i guess so from the defense of sor-umd so far

anyway, i got a level 16 sor & i never regretted not having umd

& if i ever roll another sor, i am not putting any skill points into umd



reroll...and then reroll your no umd having reroll lol...umd will only be more useful as levels progress.

One of the abilities groups expect any half decent sorc to be able to do is rez. Eventually sorcs will be expected to be able to use heal scrolls, but for now that is sort of gear dependent.

Granted you can always get around the umd rezing with rez rings or true rez clickies...but that doesnt cover other/future scroll possibilities.

Did you really just recommend someone takes haggle and jump over umd on their sorc? sigh...thats so sad its funny... you are better off taking spot then either of those two. At least then you will be able to see stealthed mobs to tab them. If you are really that broke that your mid 30ish haggle without putting any points into it is not enough there is another issue there besides your haggle.

[Aspenor]

i would estimate that 75% of wizards & sors have no umd


Pure wizards? Probably don't have UMD.

I would estimate that 90% of sorcerers have UMD. In my guild, you roll a sorc with no UMD, you get told to reroll. Immediately. POST HASTE.

[CSFurious]

there have been countless threads debating that topic

anyway, i contribute to the party by handing out some buffs & killing & controlling the enemy

clerics appreciate smart play & while same includes the ability for a sor to use heal scrolls same is not neccessary IMO

what is necessary is to do your primary sor duties? IMO those include instakilling, charming & other cc, nuking & certain buffs such as stoneskin & haste


Well that's being rather selfish and not contributing or helping to the party in other ways you should be capable of doing.

[CSFurious]

why does a wizard get a free-pass?

anyway, you guys sound like a lot of fun to play with, i.e., it sounds like free-will is abundant amongst your members

i would just assume eat dirt then join a guild like that


Pure wizards? Probably don't have UMD.

I would estimate that 90% of sorcerers have UMD. In my guild, you roll a sorc with no UMD, you get told to reroll. Immediately. POST HASTE.

[CSFurious]

if any group told me that i had to be able to raise dead or use healscrolls to join up, i would laugh at them & just start my own group

if your group needs the sor to raise people, it has bigger problems to worry about

i guess the only reason to put umd into your sor is because there is nothing better to put skill points into

i have a great idea let's eliminate clerics entirely & every single quest will be able to be completed with just umd sors

as a matter of fact, the only type of build that anyone will be allowed to play is a umd sor

the game will be so much fun


reroll...and then reroll your no umd having reroll lol...umd will only be more useful as levels progress.

One of the abilities groups expect any half decent sorc to be able to do is rez. Eventually sorcs will be expected to be able to use heal scrolls, but for now that is sort of gear dependent.

Granted you can always get around the umd rezing with rez rings or true rez clickies...but that doesnt cover other/future scroll possibilities.

Did you really just recommend someone takes haggle and jump over umd on their sorc? sigh...thats so sad its funny... you are better off taking spot then either of those two. At least then you will be able to see stealthed mobs to tab them. If you are really that broke that your mid 30ish haggle without putting any points into it is not enough there is another issue there besides your haggle.

[philo]

why does a wizard get a free-pass?

anyway, you guys sound like a lot of fun to play with, i.e., it sounds like free-will is abundant amongst your members

I dont even get along with asspenor but hes right :eek:

A pure sorc without points in umd has basically gimped themselves and is worth a reroll.

[Aspenor]

why does a wizard get a free-pass?

anyway, you guys sound like a lot of fun to play with, i.e., it sounds like free-will is abundant amongst your members

Because the wizard doesn't have the charisma to hack a high UMD, unless he takes 1 or 2 levels of rogue in which case he can exceed the UMD of a pure sorc.

It's not a question of free-will, it's a question of playstyle. I don't need a cleric, so often we don't have one. We play whatever characters we wish to play at the time. If that ends up being a 3sorc/2ranger/1barb party, that's how it happens.

You sound like a lot of fun to play with too, with your nanny-needing cleric-requiring ways that drain party resources.

[Aspenor]

I dont even get along with asspenor but hes right :eek:

A pure sorc without points in umd has basically gimped themselves and is worth a reroll.

Too true. Oh....and nice freudian slip there Philo... :p Intentional? I don't really care anymore.

[Oreg]

I am not going to say anyone is gimped but I can tell you that I am really, really, really glad that my umd is close to 40 (38 ish - can't remember exactly right now.).

[Strakeln]

or you can put points into UMD, wand-whip yourself with a cmw & cast gh on yourself & maybe on your 3rd scroll (wasting 2 just cost you 13,000 gold) raise the deadFor starters, GH doesn't require a UMD check from a sorc. And your calculation of a sorc's UMD capabilities are off. Mine uses rez scrolls without fail and rarely fails a heal scroll.

An unrelated point, for the OP: a lot of people will swear by heighten, I personally don't find it all that useful except for web. Which I haven't carried in ages. Just note that while some will say you must have X, Y, and Z feats, not everyone agrees.

[Vesuvia]

if any group told me that i had to be able to raise dead or use healscrolls to join up, i would laugh at them & just start my own group



Yes laugh because gimping yourself is awesome!

I feel sorry for your groups when your cleric dies.

[Vesuvia]

An unrelated point, for the OP: a lot of people will swear by heighten, I personally don't find it all that useful except for web. Which I haven't carried in ages. Just note that while some will say you must have X, Y, and Z feats, not everyone agrees.

I agree to this to an extent. Although heighten for sorc's was much more needed for PK when we were stuck with dancing ball only in reaver duties and didn't pack FoD. Now we do have FoD it's not needed nearly as much, although still heightening it for another 5 sp for +1 DC isn't all that bad either. If I had to drop something for something else...if there was something I really wanted...it would be heighten or improved mental toughness (but man I do love my SP) !

[CSFurious]

is to get your umd up +4

believe me i have stood there watching while a sor goes thru the ritual (equipping the right items, etc.) of getting ready for the raise, i laughed out loud


For starters, GH doesn't require a UMD check from a sorc. And your calculation of a sorc's UMD capabilities are off. Mine uses rez scrolls without fail and rarely fails a heal scroll.

An unrelated point, for the OP: a lot of people will swear by heighten, I personally don't find it all that useful except for web. Which I haven't carried in ages. Just note that while some will say you must have X, Y, and Z feats, not everyone agrees.

[Yajerman01]

i have a sorc who has vested many skill points into UMD - i wear a few items that are bypassed with UMD and there have been a number of times when I have pugged that someone has died - sometimes the cleric where I had to raise them. I get rather decent deals from vendors without vesting too much into haggle and I am currently working on my own hagglebot for optimum pricing.

I have met 1 sorc who didn't have UMD and have never seen that toon since.

IMO UMD is essential; Sometimes i get into bad groups where I have to expend more SP then normal which translates into becoming just an extra body that is limited in assisting. I know that if comes down to it I can help out as a backup healer assissting the cleric on expenditures while i either wand or scroll heal. TO me, knowing that I can help out the team in other ways makes my toon more versatile and makes me feel more of a team player. Fortunately I havent been in too many groups where that has been laid upon me, but I can honestly say that if it is called upon me, I have no problem doing it. Thast just yet another important factor to UMD.

[Aspenor]

is plus FOUR to skills.

[philo]

is to get your umd up +2

believe me i have stood there watching while a sor goes thru the ritual (equipping the right items, etc.) of getting ready for the raise, i laughed out loud

sigh really? GH increases skills by 4...

[Vesuvia]

is to get your umd up +2

believe me i have stood there watching while a sor goes thru the ritual (equipping the right items, etc.) of getting ready for the raise, i laughed out loud

Um its +4 and I'm glad you laughed out loud because you were standing there being worthless doing nothing, and at least he was contributing.

[philo]

is plus FOUR to skills.

Asp is a quicker forum troll then I am ;/

[Aspenor]

Asp is a quicker forum troll then I am ;/

and i even trudged out in the snow between posts and cleaned off my car. huzzah!

[CSFurious]

i cannot remember being in a group where if the cleric was dead there was not a party wipe

if your cleric dies, the group is probably either overmatched or not very good to start IMO

i always roll with bards & rogues who use raise dead scrolls so i guess i have never really encountered any sors who raised the dead

i guess if i did not play with clerics, bards, & rogues that i would be gimped with no umd

but, since i play with lots of clerics, bards & rogues, i think i am ok since i do not need umd while i am playing with them or even soloing


Yes laugh because gimping yourself is awesome!

I feel sorry for your groups when your cleric dies.

[CSFurious]

i am addicted to good hope with my bard

no, i was reading my playboy


Um its +4 and I'm glad you laughed out loud because you were standing there being worthless doing nothing, and at least he was contributing.

[Aspenor]

i cannot remember being in a group where if the cleric was dead there was not a party wipe


Then you are obviously playing with people that don't know how to be self sufficient and depend on a nannycleric. How sad. :(

[Vesuvia]

Honestly the only bards I play with are battle bards, and generally don't group with rogues as I see them as mostly unneeded for any reason. Now letting a rogue guildie or friend come along is one thing, but I'd much rather have another tank/cleric/sorc in that spot instead. Bah, clerics die all the time and parties don't wipe. Some people make squishy clerics or are to busy healing others to heal themselves, and this doesnt mean the party was over matched, this could be as simple as a nasty trap crunchin your cleric then what? =)

[Yajerman01]

if your cleric dies, the group is probably either overmatched or not very good to start IMO

HEY CS, you should use the excerpt above as your new sig!

Very insightful!

[Vesuvia]

I have decided you sir are a Noob also and shouldnt be giving build advice. You should instead go back to page one and follow my post on how to build an effective sorcerer. I am done.

[philo]

i cannot remember being in a group where if the cleric was dead there was not a party wipe


that says alot right there...that basically sums it up. I didnt realize there were people on any server that would make that comment...

and sorry elric69 for all of us forum trolls derailing your thread.

The moral of this thread is you should take UMD or you might end up in reroll denial like that guy

[Oreg]

Putting 6 man groups aside for a second. Having high umd has allowed me and friends to 2-3 man vale quests with almost any group makeup. Heal scrolls to supplement pots, restoration scrolls, raise dead scrolls, all pretty much failing on a 1 only.

A sorc becomes more versatile and more valuable with umd. Name one other skill that can help so much.

For light armor wearers like myself there is an added bonus - seven fingered gloves are always on because of the arcane spell failure, head of good fortune is on 90% of the time (Kardin's eye te rest of the time). GH is on myself 100% of the time. So I am not taking any time to change out equipment before i cast from a scroll or wand.

[CSFurious]

first, i think you say some very insightful things

however, you then talk about traps crunching your cleric & after you that you tell us that you do not play with rogues

do you see the problem there?

anyway, any well-played spellsinger or warchanter is of tremendous benefit to any group

the same applies to rogues & i am not talking about the squishy ones who die all the time & just come out from the back when there is a trap to disable, i am talking about a rogue who can dps with the best of them & plays smart

i min-max to a certain extent, but i always think that the ideal party make-up consists of a cleric, a bard, a rogue, a sor & two other melee types (sometimes insert another arcane caster here), that is how i have fun while playing the game


Honestly the only bards I play with are battle bards, and generally don't group with rogues as I see them as mostly unneeded for any reason. Now letting a rogue guildie or friend come along is one thing, but I'd much rather have another tank/cleric/sorc in that spot instead. Bah, clerics die all the time and parties don't wipe. Some people make squishy clerics or are to busy healing others to heal themselves, and this doesnt mean the party was over matched, this could be as simple as a nasty trap crunchin your cleric then what? =)

[Aspenor]

that says alot right there...that basically sums it up. I didnt realize there were people on any server that would make that comment...

and sorry elric69 for all of us forum trolls derailing your thread.

The moral of this thread is you should take UMD or you might end up in reroll denial like that guy

May I take this moment to be ashamed of my server :(

I never knew this point of view existed. It surely cannot be found in any guild I run with.

[CSFurious]

i completely agree

but, my question to you is, "why are you doing these quests with only 2 to 3 players in your group?"

why not just invite a cleric, bard or rogue along? there are plenty of them that would love to play with you & your friends


Putting 6 man groups aside for a second. Having high umd has allowed me and friends to 2-3 man vale quests with almost any group makeup. Heal scrolls to supplement pots, restoration scrolls, raise dead scrolls, all pretty much failing on a 1 only.

A sorc becomes more versatile and more valuable with umd. Name one other skill that can help so much.

For light armor wearers like myself there is an added bonus - seven fingered gloves are always on because of the arcane spell failure, head of good fortune is on 90% of the time (Kardin's eye te rest of the time). GH is on myself 100% of the time. So I am not taking any time to change out equipment before i cast from a scroll or wand.

[Aspenor]

i min-max to a certain extent, but i always think that the ideal party make-up consists of a cleric, a bard, a rogue, a sor & two other melee types (sometimes insert another arcane caster here), that is how i have fun while playing the game

And how often do you find yourself in this "ideal" party?

As noted above by other posters, UMD makes a character more versatile. I have run in 6 sorc parties through the vale content on elite with no issues. I have also run with in makeups like 3 sorc, 1 barb, 2 rangers, or 2 sorc, 1 wiz, a rogue, 2 barbs and a ranger.

You seem to have this very narrowminded view of party roles that pigeonholes you into a place where you can do nothing but cast arcane spells to help your party.

[philo]

Hey, I found a post CS made in a different thread...Ill just leave it out of context, the point is the same:


Quote:
some players cannot let go of the past
the biggest problem IMO are "old-timers" who are attached to their original builds from 1 to 2 years ago

those builds are out of date now and most need to be re-rolled
King's Blood of Argo: Goldfingers - Butchie - Sharkey - Bootsie - Silkie - Apples

Khyber: Hooks


He told someone they need to reroll! :eek:

[Aspenor]

i completely agree

but, my question to you is, "why are you doing these quests with only 2 to 3 players in your group?"

why not just invite a cleric, bard or rogue along? there are plenty of them that would love to play with you & your friends

Probably because there were no other guildies or friends available, and he didn't want to invite strangers. It's not unheard of. I would rather run 3 people short and wait for guildies to log in than fill a party with strangers and make a pal wait.

[Oreg]

i completely agree

but, my question to you is, "why are you doing these quests with only 2 to 3 players in your group?"

why not just invite a cleric, bard or rogue along? there are plenty of them that would love to play with you & your friends

A few reasons.

1) we have a pretty tight guild and we enjoy each other's company. We save free spots in case a guildie logs in.
2) we talk on Skype - nonstop.
3) it is a challenge to see how hard the content we can handle
4) we zerg - alot.

We do take puggers on raids and I do join pug groups but most times we will short man non-raid quests rather than put up an lfm.

[Yajerman01]

I am in disagreement with you CS and I beleive UMD is more important/usefull/relevant then dumping skill points into haggle. I cannot fathom the logic put behind your assertions other then to say you have a different perspective to running a sorc then the MAJORITY of sorc players.

To each his own as I say, if your having fun running your toon without UMD, then none of us can tell you differently. However, to the OP, I firmly believe that UMD is essential and I for one am in alignment with the majority of sorc who oppose CSfurious on this post.

that is all.

[CSFurious]

i rely on my previous statement that if the cleric is dead then the group is either overmatched or not very good

welcome to my squelch list sucka

asp was already there but sometimes i like to see what he has to say


that says alot right there...that basically sums it up. I didnt realize there were people on any server that would make that comment...

and sorry elric69 for all of us forum trolls derailing your thread.

The moral of this thread is you should take UMD or you might end up in reroll denial like that guy

[Yajerman01]

you squelch me over a dabate or anyone else? now thats truly petty.

[CSFurious]

i completely agree with everything you say & i appreciate your diplomacy

anyway, i just will say that it is possible to get a sor to plus 1800 favor without ever using a single heal or raise dead scroll

also, i do enough raising with scrolls with my bard

i will be damned if i will play babysitter with my sor using scrolls

i might as well just roll up a dwarf barbarian or a cleric


I am in disagreement with you CS and I beleive UMD is more important/usefull/relevant then dumping skill points into haggle. I cannot fathom the logic put behind your assertions other then to say you have a different perspective to running a sorc then the MAJORITY of sorc players.

To each his own as I say, if your having fun running your toon without UMD, then none of us can tell you differently. However, to the OP, I firmly believe that UMD is essential and I for one am in alignment with the majority of sorc who oppose CSfurious on this post.

that is all.

[CSFurious]

not you

read slower

i read fast & sometimes jump to conclusions as well

peace


you squelch me over a dabate? now thats truly petty.

[CSFurious]

your style of play demands that you be extremely self-sufficient

with the exception of this sor, all of my characters are self-sufficient

once again, this sor is self-sufficient with the bag of jerky, false life, gh & healing potions (also, donations to your cleric & bard can always keep you alive long time)

i never met a cleric who was opposed to healing a sor with 200 hitpoints as they are always mad at the barbarians with 600 hitpoints


A few reasons.

1) we have a pretty tight guild and we enjoy each other's company. We save free spots in case a guildie logs in.
2) we talk on Skype - nonstop.
3) it is a challenge to see how hard the content we can handle
4) we zerg - alot.

We do take puggers on raids and I do join pug groups but most times we will short man non-raid quests rather than put up an lfm.

[Yajerman01]

not you

read slower

i read fast & sometimes jump to conclusions as well

peace

fair enough

[CSFurious]

i have decided that you also get the honor of going on my squelch list

my sor is plenty effective & i hold my own in any quest without using a single heal or rez scroll


I have decided you sir are a Noob also and shouldnt be giving build advice. You should instead go back to page one and follow my post on how to build an effective sorcerer. I am done.

[Aspenor]

Frankly, I'm not telling anybody how to play. You like your sorc without UMD, and that's fine.

But telling a new sorc to not take UMD is a mistake.

[Vesuvia]

I thought I was done. Your sorc is worthless and squishy add me to your squelch list. If there was a god that allowed you to play on Ghallanda and you some how managed to sneak into a party of mine you would likely end up in single digit kills and dead most of the quest.

[Strakeln]

is to get your umd up +4

believe me i have stood there watching while a sor goes thru the ritual (equipping the right items, etc.) of getting ready for the raise, i laughed out loud36 UMD, in my normal running around gear. No item swapping, no nothin'. Succeed on a 1. Heal scrolls on a 4.

[Vesuvia]

i completely agree with everything you say & i appreciate your diplomacy

anyway, i just will say that it is possible to get a sor to plus 1800 favor without ever using a single heal or raise dead scroll

also, i do enough raising with scrolls with my bard

i will be damned if i will play babysitter with my sor using scrolls

i might as well just roll up a dwarf barbarian or a cleric

I'm sure you can get 1800+ favor while being worthless, and depending on other people 100% of the time, and I'd be also willing to wager being with your bard is about the same as your sorc.

[Xithos]

my sor has 189 hitpoints unbuffed & needs a cleric/bard bad sometimes (i need to get that minos legen still)

i believe in letting everyone have a role in the party, i.e., i kill & control stuff & the cleric/bard heals me

idk maybe if i roll a human sor i will put points into umd for soloing purposes, but i doubt it as i have too many characters right now as it is

peace

Lack of self-sufficiency works a lot better among guilds and close buddies than it does with a pug. I hope you buy lots of cure pots since you don't find UMD to be worthwhile.

[CSFurious]

& once again tip the cleric/bard

with my gimped haggle of 50-plus, i can afford it

yes, guilds are great especially when they are full of open-minded individuals who respect individuality & understand that this is a game that most of us play for fun

as to pugs, they are sort of like one-night stands, i.e., little conversation & limited time together afterwards

pugs either go really smooth so everyone keeps running together or they break apart fast

so when pugging, if the cleric be dying a lot, then more likely than not, i will be "alt-f4'ing" or claiming wife-aggro before you know it

Lack of self-sufficiency works a lot better among guilds and close buddies than it does with a pug. I hope you buy lots of cure pots since you don't find UMD to be worthwhile.

[Xithos]

& once again tip the cleric/bard

with my gimped haggle of 50-plus, i can afford it

yes, guilds are great especially when they are full of open-minded individuals who respect individuality & understand that this is a game that most of us play for fun

as to pugs, they are sort of like one-night stands, i.e., little conversation & limited time together afterwards

pugs either go really smooth so everyone keeps running together or they break apart fast

so when pugging, if the cleric be dying a lot, then more likely than not, i will be "alt-f4'ing" or claiming wife-aggro before you know it

Good man on the potions. As far as new player advice goes though, drop skill points from low-benefit things like jump and pump UMD. You can even use that uber haggle to reduce the price of cure wands to make for an even more cost-effective experience.

[CSFurious]

i think my example was from when a player was level 9 or 10

anyway, when i need a back-up cleric i will keep you in mind


36 UMD, in my normal running around gear. No item swapping, no nothin'. Succeed on a 1. Heal scrolls on a 4.

[CSFurious]

see what happens whe you are diplomatic? you can get people to agree with you

but, i will say that i use diplo on my sor all the time, it is great having a 40 diplo to keep the bad guys away

if i had to choose between umd & diplo, i would choose diplo as a sor does not have 400+ hitpoints, it is great being in the reaver raid & using diplo to protect yourself

anyway, it is the player not the build, it is also the attitude & it is evident in this thread that many have very bad attitudes


Good man on the potions. As far as new player advice goes though, drop skill points from low-benefit things like jump and pump UMD. You can even use that uber haggle to reduce the price of cure wands to make for an even more cost-effective experience.

[Oreg]

see what happens whe you are diplomatic? you can get people to agree with you

but, i will say that i use diplo on my sor all the time, it is great having a 40 diplo to keep the bad guys away

if i had to choose between umd & diplo, i would choose diplo as a sor does not have 400+ hitpoints, it is great being in the reaver raid & using diplo to protect yourself

anyway, it is the player not the build, it is also the attitude

If i could respec skills I would dump diplo and add haggle to my umd and concentration.

And it is no doubt the player - I used to be amazed that more sorcs didn't go the 240+ hp 40 AC Blue Dragonhide / Fanion route because to me it was clearly better. Now, I believe that there are lots of ways to play this class. I still love my way but can appreciate other's playstyles as well.

and to the OP - Take UMD, Haggle and Concentration. That is my free advice. :)

[CSFurious]

i have 30+

i just wear a plain old robe of heavy fortification & sell those dragon scales on the ah

"danger" is my middle-name so i like to run around with 190 hitpoints

i get bored sometimes with my dwarf 10 rogue/4 fighter because he never dies with his 350 hitpoints (only wearing +2 con item lol)

i just charm the hell out of the enemy & my new friends protect me

If i could respec skills I would dump diplo and add haggle to my umd and concentration.

And it is no doubt the player - I used to be amazed that more sorcs didn't go the 240+ hp 40 AC Blue Dragonhide / Fanion route because to me it was clearly better. Now, I believe that there are lots of ways to play this class. I still love my way but can appreciate other's playstyles as well.

and to the OP - Take UMD, Haggle and Concentration. That is my free advice. :)

[philo]

so when pugging, if the cleric be dying a lot, then more likely than not, i will be "alt-f4'ing" or claiming wife-aggro before you know it

I should have pegged him for one who bails on groups in the middle of a quest. Somehow, while his poor build choices dont really help his cause, Im guessing the build, while non-optimal, isnt the real issue.

All I hear from CS is this cleric died and that cleric died and the party wiped. If you can do the job that is expected of you your cleric wont die...even if things go bad though you should still be able to do the job that is expected of you at that point and rez.

Every point that CS has made has had an underlying tone of the sorc not being able to do the their job. Im sure it has to be because of a number of issues ranging from player competence to build to group makeup.

Why would someone who openly states that every group he is in where the cleric dies ends up wiping try to give someone else advice? Do they really think thats how the game is for other people? Can he not see that he has issues that other players dont have?

So to rehash. Poor build (less then 200hp's unbuffed=reroll, no umd=reroll)/ Cant do the job the group expects of him/ Bails on groups in the middle of quests

I bet people are pounding down your door to group with you...

There are 3 kinds of players...Those that can carry others through to the end, those who are just along for the ride, and those who are weighing the group down and need to be carried...

[unionyes]

Wow, I go for lunch and miss the whole flame attack.

All I said was I have a sorc that has no UMD. I wish I had put points into it. It was my first toon. I am looking at making another one soon, and will take UMD without a doubt.

Should also point out that I like my sorc even without UMD. She is great, she kills stuff fast and hard, has a few buffs to hand out, and for the most part can dominate in any fight.

Maybe we are missing an important point, in that you can have a good sorc without UMD. I mainly wanted to tell the OP that it was one skill I didn't think about taking and I regret it. Not enough to delete my sorc 15, but I will take UMD next sorc I make.

It isn't an 'either or' question. OP, some here will say that if you have UMD you are wasting your time, which isn't true. And others will tell you that if you don't have UMD you are totally worthless. This is also not true. You need to make up your own mind on it, check out the benefits of going either way, and do what you want to do. All I can say is that I made one without, and the next sorc I make will have UMD. Take that for what it's worth. If you learn anything from this thread, it should be that there are a couple different schools of thought out there regarding what sorcs can and should do.

[Oreg]

I'm not sure one person qualifies as a "school of thought" :D

[Vesuvia]

I'm sorry you weren't the one being flamed in paticular Union, it was CS =). Lets be real honest about one thing it's not hard to do dmg as a sorc. Get your superior potency 6, your greater arcane lore max your enhancements, flip on maximize/empower/extend and your on par with all our damage. The only thing that genuinly matters is your HP and SP totals and your ability to go outside the box and do more then just dmg/cc/or insta deaths, ie back-up clerical abilities. Also when running solo you'll have NO problems, when you can crank heal scrolls on the run 95% effectively.

[CSFurious]

no, not at all

i do not think you know how to read very well so i will help you

first, i have only bailed on a group mid-quest maybe 10 times in over 18 months

second, as to clerics dying, once again, i cannot make it any simpler for you, i.e., the party is either over-matched or not very good

my point is the cleric should never die if the group is good so what difference does it make if you can raise him from the dead

additionally, i stated that in 95% or more of my groups the cleric never dies (what are you doing with your umd then? nothing sucka)

this reminds me of when you try to lead a pug in trial by fire norm at level 8 or 9 or do ts hard at level 7, sometimes it is better to wait & get more powerful before you tackle certain quests (i am sure that this does not apply to you & your ilk because you are super-uber)

third, as to hitpoints, all those drow sors better reroll because if any of them has max chr & more than 240 hitpoints unbuffed, i will take you off my ignore list

fourth, i have plenty of people to play with because it is the player not the build & i did not get to 1800+ favor by creating a lot of enemies with my playstyle & contributions to the group

fifth, i am tired of this thread now & players who think that there is only one way to do things because honestly, we will never play this game together anyway so what happens in our individual instances matters naught

so, wave your heal scrolls around, i am glad, i will just continue to roll with those who think non-umd sors are ok (mainly clerics & bards who have job security because of players like me)

this issue is not black or white


I should have pegged him for one who bails on groups in the middle of a quest. Somehow, while his poor build choices dont really help his cause, Im guessing the build, while non-optimal, isnt the real issue.

All I hear from CS is this cleric died and that cleric died and the party wiped. If you can do the job that is expected of you your cleric wont die...even if things go bad though you should still be able to do the job that is expected of you at that point and rez.

Every point that CS has made has had an underlying tone of the sorc not being able to do the their job. Im sure it has to be because of a number of issues ranging from player competence to build to group makeup.

Why would someone who openly states that every group he is in where the cleric dies ends up wiping try to give someone else advice? Do they really think thats how the game is for other people? Can he not see that he has issues that other players dont have?

So to rehash. Poor build (less then 200hp's unbuffed=reroll, no umd=reroll)/ Cant do the job the group expects of him/ Bails on groups in the middle of quests

I bet people are pounding down your door to group with you...

There are 3 kinds of players...Those that can carry others through to the end, those who are just along for the ride, and those who are weighing the group down and need to be carried...

[Lizardgrad89]

I like having UMD on my Sorc. It just seems to give me a lot more options.

I don't agree about Jump, though. I'm pretty sure the "40 cap" is dated information. If I recall correctly, there is no longer a top limit on jump. For example, you supposedly now need a 73 jump to get to the Von 5 ladder (or you have to use the blower to get to the switch). My Jump tops out at 52, which is completely non-uber, but it's still enough to keep the "jump around in the firewall" method valid (except against scorps). I have a +10 jump ring, and I can tell the difference whan I'm not wearing it.

[CSFurious]

the whole world would be a better place

peace


Wow, I go for lunch and miss the whole flame attack.

All I said was I have a sorc that has no UMD. I wish I had put points into it. It was my first toon. I am looking at making another one soon, and will take UMD without a doubt.

Should also point out that I like my sorc even without UMD. She is great, she kills stuff fast and hard, has a few buffs to hand out, and for the most part can dominate in any fight.

Maybe we are missing an important point, in that you can have a good sorc without UMD. I mainly wanted to tell the OP that it was one skill I didn't think about taking and I regret it. Not enough to delete my sorc 15, but I will take UMD next sorc I make.

It isn't an 'either or' question. OP, some here will say that if you have UMD you are wasting your time, which isn't true. And others will tell you that if you don't have UMD you are totally worthless. This is also not true. You need to make up your own mind on it, check out the benefits of going either way, and do what you want to do. All I can say is that I made one without, and the next sorc I make will have UMD. Take that for what it's worth. If you learn anything from this thread, it should be that there are a couple different schools of thought out there regarding what sorcs can and should do.

[Merkinsal]

Too true.

Oh shoot. So UMD, then what else? Concentration and Diplomacy I'm guessing but how much of each?

[CSFurious]

i will never be on ghallanda so that is great

my bards are my best builds so you would lose your bet sucka


I'm sure you can get 1800+ favor while being worthless, and depending on other people 100% of the time, and I'd be also willing to wager being with your bard is about the same as your sorc.

[Vesuvia]

And I still somehow think they would be less then average...

[rimble]

Hey im still somewhat new,(my highest toon is level 10) I need some stat and begining advice and how to create a sorc. I plan on using a drow but am curious if I should max the cha. stat or not, and I am curious if I should bother using a feat so that I can use a better weapon? any advice would be apreciated. I definately want a max dammage nuker so to speak, a toon who does the max dammage possible.

Drow is good. Maxing Charisma (and Constitution) is good. Max Concentration (unless you plan on using Quicken) and I really like UMD and recommend maxing that too. Don't take a weapon feat, if you really want to use some weapons you can keep Master's Touch memorized, which lets you use most weapons without penalty. You really shouldn't be attacking things in melee too much anyways, unless maybe you Hold them first, at which point you auto-hit and auto-crit anyways. I Hold things and then dual-wield Heavy Picks with massive ToHit penalties and still tear them apart, you only miss on a 1 if they're Held.

[Aspenor]

Oh shoot. So UMD, then what else? Concentration and Diplomacy I'm guessing but how much of each?

Take 12 int on a drow. Take 1 skill point per level in all three.

Or go the smart route, human, and 10 int, 3 skill points per level and put them in all three. I have a 28 pt human that will beat 99.9% of drow in casting and survivability.

[Vesuvia]

The only problem with going 10 int, you can't max cha/con which are the really important ones, and myself ..honestly I have NEVER used diplo one time ever...as I'm very against diplo and fearsome armors. When I firewall I WANT the agro to stay on me where I am, and usually want all agro most if not all the time.

[Aspenor]

The only problem with going 10 int, you can't max cha/con which are the really important ones, and myself ..honestly I have NEVER used diplo one time ever...as I'm very against diplo and fearsome armors. When I firewall I WANT the agro to stay on me where I am, and usually want all agro most if not all the time.

What...you still use firewall regularly??

Hmph :D:cool:

[twix]

A smart cleric would rather carry soul stones than babysit.

/signed Anyone who thinks a cleric is all heal needs to roll a cleric and realize the possibilities of one of the most powerful classes in the game.

[twix]

Oh p.s i would like to be squelched as well cs for the amount of ******** that goes into your posts and your lack of common sense.Wanna help a new player? Dont post when you dont know what your talking about :)

[Vesuvia]

Lol it's true Firewall is still useful! =) just not in runnin with the devils elite! lol that'll get you OWND>

[philo]

first, i have only bailed on a group mid-quest maybe 10 times in over 18 months


as to hitpoints, all those drow sors better reroll because if any of them has max chr & more than 225 hitpoints unbuffed, i will take you off my ignore list




First off, I thought I was on ignore=X lol

You have seriously bailed on 10 groups in the middle of the quest and then you come on the forums and admit it? Barring technical issues (my power has gone out once or twice in the last 2 and a half years)...i have left one pug before the quest was over...and it was really an emergency. Thats kind of a pathetic number of times to bail on a group...and you say it like you ONLY bailed on 10 groups lol sigh

We all understand you are a newer player who doesnt know all that much, we get that part. You really dont think a drow sorc can get over 225hp's unbuffed with max chr? Before you type anything, or try to give people advice, you should know a little bit more about what you are talking about.

My sorc is human, while not drow, he currently has 315 hp's unbuffed (and thats with only eating a +1 con tome...and of course no toughness feats lol hopefully that doesnt need to be said). Yes, he started with 18 con. Drow start with 16 con...thats a difference of 1 extra hitpoint per level. You do the math. And besides I didnt say anything about 225 I said any pure sorc with less then 200 unbuffed should reroll...you had stated you had 189..big difference between 189 and 225...

Im glad im not on ignore. I enjoy poking the newbs through the fence.

[philo]

.Wanna help a new player? Dont post when you dont know what your talking about :)

QFT :D

[philo]

third, as to hitpoints, all those drow sors better reroll because if any of them has max chr & more than 225 hitpoints unbuffed, i will take you off my ignore list



I shouldnt be on ignore anymore right? ;)

[Strakeln]

I said any pure sorc with less then 200 unbuffed should rerollI have to disagree with this, but I will admit that if you want to play a character with less than 200HP, you had better know what you're doing... and you had better be good a twitch skills.

Honestly, it's pretty rare that anything even gets close enough to my sorc for me to be concerned. When you have a nearly unlimited mana pool and 180 different ways to neuter any given opponent, you have little excuse for taking damage ;)

[Yajerman01]

... any pure sorc with less then 200 unbuffed should reroll...

Well my sorc is at a whopping 194 unbuffed and only in a not so cohesive PUG will i die. So the concept of re-rolling based upon a paltry 6 hp is inconceivable as my caster straight out rocks and death is rare. But I guess I could get a +6 con in place of +4 im using and nudge it a bit closer to the 200 mark to make him feel more 200hp acceptable. Aside the sarcasm, i do not think 200hp is a mark that signifies reroll.

Bad choice feats, bad choice of enhancements, bad choice in skill points, bad choice in use of abilities points is what defines a good built sorc from a bad built sorc and what potentially signals a need to reroll. Granted the first two, feats and enhancements can be adjusted, skills and ability points however are a done deal.

But no matter how good of a build you have, bad player skills is what seperates peoples interpretation/perception of a l33t vs. gimp.

[Yajerman01]

I have to disagree with this, but I will admit that if you want to play a character with less than 200HP, you had better know what you're doing... and you had better be good a twitch skills.

Honestly, it's pretty rare that anything even gets close enough to my sorc for me to be concerned. When you have a nearly unlimited mana pool and 180 different ways to neuter any given opponent, you have little excuse for taking damage ;)

you just beat me to the punch, but your right Strakeln - twitch is important, "know thy enemy". I ran VONS preraid quests last night, me (my sorc), 3 wizzies and a tank. 2 of the wizzies were doing just fine but the third wizzy just kept dying. I couldnt understand it. I do not know if he didnt have enough hit point, or if he wasnt buffing or what, but a level 15 wizzy should be soloing all the vons quests without dying, let alone 4 times. to me the perception was a bit objective but "gimp" still entered my mind.

[philo]

I have to disagree with this, but I will admit that if you want to play a character with less than 200HP, you had better know what you're doing... and you had better be good a twitch skills.

Honestly, it's pretty rare that anything even gets close enough to my sorc for me to be concerned. When you have a nearly unlimited mana pool and 180 different ways to neuter any given opponent, you have little excuse for taking damage ;)

eh /shrug there are things that will one hit you on hard/elite settings if you dont have decent hitpoints. Delayed fireblasts in shroud on higher settings. Abbots disintigrate or delayed fireblast or polar ray come to mind. You are right, you can usually avoid that damage but not 100% of the time.

and your "nearly unlimited mana" is not even close to enough to do things like dps the pit fiend for more then 10-20% of his bar etc.

And of course looking to future expansions, im sure it will only get worse. I do understand that Im biased and rank hitpoints on my casters higher then many. 200 unbuffed base is low as is and even non hitpoint/con builds should be able to attain that number easily enough with decent gear. Dex based casters are a thing of the past. Imo having below 200hp's unbuffed means you could have planned your build better.

[Yajerman01]

eh /shrug there are things that will one hit you on hard/elite settings if you dont have decent hitpoints. Delayed fireblasts in shroud on higher settings. Abbots disintigrate or delayed fireblast or polar ray come to mind. You are right, you can usually avoid that damage but not 100% of the time.

and your "nearly unlimited mana" is not even close to enough to do things like dps the pit fiend for more then 10-20% of his bar etc.

And of course looking to future expansions, im sure it will only get worse. I do understand that Im biased and rank hitpoints on my casters higher then many. 200 unbuffed base is low as is and even non hitpoint/con builds should be able to attain that number easily enough with decent gear. Dex based casters are a thing of the past. Imo having below 200hp's unbuffed means you could have planned your build better.

PS, you cant max out your con and your char on a drow sorc. the highest you can obtain at inception is a 20 char and a 14 con. Hopefully as a drow you can nab a +3 charisma tome and use your favor on the con, but otherwise what ive stated is the best con you can get if your putting all your ability points into charisma.

SO having that said, i feel confident that i did the correct thing as i dumped everything i could into con and charisma. But for a second there you had me guessing about my build :)

[unionyes]

Man, if you need 200+ HP or reroll, I am pwned.

My sorc 15 has like 160 or so. My rogue 14 has 140 or so.

I must be friggin awesome to have survived this long with that low of hit points. Of course, my sorc kills them before they can get to me, and when you throw stoneskin, gh, false life, and other buffs on the effective number goes up some. My rogue kills them before they know I am even there. I always sort of considered myself to be an average sort of casual gamer, but with my intense squishiness and ability to survive, I must be a pretty uber gamer ;)

The only character that I have with over 200 hit points is my dwarf fighter 8, he has 225 and is being designed to spam intimidate, shield block and keep aggro while the rest of the party kills. He is slow, dumb, and if the party ever wants him to get over a boulder or a wall they better bring some rope to haul his chunky butt over. That's why he is still level 8, it is kinda boring being a pure tank. I would much rather nuke 'em from afar, or run into the fray three steps behind the tanks and slaughter without getting aggro, much more fun IMO.

[philo]

PS, you cant max out your con and your char on a drow sorc. the highest you can obtain at inception is a 20 char and a 14 con. Hopefully as a drow you can nab a +3 charisma tome and use your favor on the con, but otherwise what ive stated is the best con you can get if your putting all your ability points into charisma.

SO having that said, i feel confident that i did the correct thing as i dumped everything i could into con and charisma. But for a second there you had me guessing about my build :)

with a 14 base con you should still be able to break 200hp's easily with decent gear.

20 base
4x16=64 class
10draconic vitality
6 con item makes con 20=+5 per lvl..5x16=80
30 greater false life item

thats 204 right there...
every character should be wearing minos legion imo..thats +18 so 222

thats 222 without any tomes...but +2 tomes are easy to attain these days too, they come from end rewards.

thats 238 with a +2 tome

not including any spiffy greensteel items etc. (of which i consider the first 2 upgrades attainable by even casual players)..but we will leave those out since one has so many options and hp's wont be first on most peoples list

and to the person who commented about their rogue this is only for pure casters. Rogues have to spread their stats around more while casters have a primary stat and con basically.

Note I have been saying "with decent gear". If you are lacking the gear there is no reason to reroll. You just have some things you should try to acquire. Everyone should have a 6 con item and a greater false life item at the bare minimum.

...and I personally think every class in the game should be wearing a minos legion

[CSFurious]

i forgot you are the battle cleric who plays drunk

np


Oh p.s i would like to be squelched as well cs for the amount of ******** that goes into your posts and your lack of common sense.Wanna help a new player? Dont post when you dont know what your talking about :)

[Aspenor]

i forgot you are the battle cleric who plays drunk

np

Actually, a lot of us play drunk. And we don't wipe when the cleric dies. :p

[CSFurious]

according to certain logic in this thread, there are only 3 races that can be sorcerors, i.e., humans, dwarves & warforged

those are the races that can get the most hitpoints as sorcerors

additionally, due to chr limitations, really only human should be used as a sor because that race's potential chr is higher than the other 2

that sounds like a lot of fun, i.e., if you do not choose one of those races at character creation then you are gimped

i would conservatively estimate that at least 50% of sors are drow & 50% of wizards are drow or elf

i guess that means that half of the existing arcanes need to re-roll for end game

if that is true, then there is no future for DDO end-game with respect to arcane casters because i do not foresee that many players re-rolling

cookiecutter builds are bad for the game


PS, you cant max out your con and your char on a drow sorc. the highest you can obtain at inception is a 20 char and a 14 con. Hopefully as a drow you can nab a +3 charisma tome and use your favor on the con, but otherwise what ive stated is the best con you can get if your putting all your ability points into charisma.

SO having that said, i feel confident that i did the correct thing as i dumped everything i could into con and charisma. But for a second there you had me guessing about my build :)

[philo]

all those drow sors better reroll because if any of them has max chr & more than 225 hitpoints unbuffed, i will take you off my ignore list




according to certain logic in this thread, there are only 3 races that can be sorcerors, i.e., humans, dwarves & warforged
those are the races that can get the most hitpoints as sorcerors


To funny. He must still have me on ignore because I just broke down how a drow with only a 14 base con can fairly easily attain over 225 hp's...not to mention I really only state that if you cant hit 200 you should probably rethink your build. Not sure where he got the 225 number.

[Aspenor]

with a 14 base con you should still be able to break 200hp's easily with decent gear.

20 base
4x16=64 class
10draconic vitality
6 con item makes con 20=+5 per lvl..5x16=80
30 greater false life item

thats 204 right there...
every character should be wearing minos legion imo..thats +18 so 222

thats 222 without any tomes...but +2 tomes are easy to attain these days too, they come from end rewards.

thats 238 with a +2 tome

not including any spiffy greensteel items etc. (of which i consider the first 2 upgrades attainable by even casual players)..but we will leave those out since one has so many options and hp's wont be first on most peoples list

and to the person who commented about their rogue this is only for pure casters. Rogues have to spread their stats around more while casters have a primary stat and con basically.

Note I have been saying "with decent gear". If you are lacking the gear there is no reason to reroll. You just have some things you should try to acquire. Everyone should have a 6 con item and a greater false life item at the bare minimum.

...and I personally think every class in the game should be wearing a minos legion


he must still have me on ignore because I just broke down how a drow with only a 14 base con can fairly easily attain over 225 hp's...not to mention I really only state that if you cant hit 200 you should probably rethink your build.
Quoted for good measure :eek:

[Yajerman01]

with a 14 base con you should still be able to break 200hp's easily with decent gear.

20 base
4x16=64 class
10draconic vitality
6 con item makes con 20=+5 per lvl..5x16=80
30 greater false life item

thats 204 right there...
every character should be wearing minos legion imo..thats +18 so 222


Im gonna have to check my gear tonight when i get home, excluding the +6 con item i dont have I do know i have 14 base con, I do have a Greater false life item on, but im just not getting 204, plus I am wearing the minos so im gonna have to figure out where im running up shy at.

I forgot about the added HP to greenstell items, good call! But since im wearing wiz6 greensteal bracers, i pressume it will be a while before i obtain the magic 20 runs on the shroud just in hopes of obtaining that item that clenses the greensteel gear. Until then SP rules the roost on my toon.

[Merkinsal]

cookiecutter builds are bad for the game

Interestingly enough, we can't see each others builds or gear as I could in another game I once played. I think (therefore I must be delusional) that the privacy players have with their builds and gear is a good thing. As tremendously complicated as this game is and the fact that once created a character cannot be changed, I would bet many do not have exactly what they want and are not about to reroll to do something about it. Heck, I cannot even see what damage someone is doing to compare dps, what spell they're casting, what technique they are using in hand to hand, and the kill count is a joke as it only counts the last fatal hit. Except for the "Do you have Ddoor?" or "Do you have flesh to stone" neither of which have wrong answers (I'm not sure about that statement lol) no one really knows how our characters are built. I did get the "How is your UMD?" once because we needed to rez a guy and someone had the scroll but couldn't use it. I guess I'll have to look at that when I do a 32 point build. Anyway, in that one quest, my performance was more than good enough to succeed. Point being, this game is all about how well you play within the group and the group's success, ultimately, and not so much about the build. If you like jump, then by all means up your jump and go for it. If you like agro, (and can handle it with out dying), dump diplomacy. If you like charms, charm. If you don't, then don't. Personaly I hate charms with a passion and do not use them. Never once has anyone said anything and never once has that affected the quests success. Create the character that fits your personality and go with it. You will find plenty of groups and guilds to play in and will have a wonderful time. I don't have UMD but get no end of compliments.

{edit} P.S. Tip on being successful. As a Sorc, you are back there with the cleric. Keep him alive! lol. I love to hear "Thank you again. How many times have I said that?" If the cleric dies, I take that as a personal failure and ask what could I have done differently.

[philo]

Im gonna have to check my gear tonight when i get home, excluding the +6 con item i dont have I do know i have 14 base con, I do have a Greater false life item on, but im just not getting 204, plus I am wearing the minos so im gonna have to figure out where im running up shy at.

I forgot about the added HP to greenstell items, good call! But since im wearing wiz6 greensteal bracers, i pressume it will be a while before i obtain the magic 20 runs on the shroud just in hopes of obtaining that item that clenses the greensteel gear. Until then SP rules the roost on my toon.

If i had to guess... Since you have a 4 con item and wear minos legion should put you at 206....but if you arent breaking 200 you probably dont have draconic vitality and are sitting at 196? Did you get your gianthold favor? Im probly off but...does 196 sound right?

that would include 14 base a 4 con item and minos legion without having draconic vit.

[Yajerman01]

If i had to guess... Since you have a 4 con item and wear minos legion should put you at 206....but if you arent breaking 200 you probably dont have draconic vitality and are sitting at 196? Did you get your gianthold favor? Im probly off but...does 196 sound right?

that would include 14 base a 4 con item and minos legion without having draconic vit.

I called my wife and she annoyingly agreed to look at my character. ANd first off, I apologize, she said my toon is showing 190 hp, not 194. I also asked her to read back my con ability and she said its 15. so either I ate a +1 tome or I actually have a +5 con item on (pretty sure its a 4).

As for giant favor, yes, that I already have. Im not sure about the draconic vit and I dare not ask my wife to check again. so ill have to look later. but at this point im assuming it is the draconic vit., because that and a +6 con item would put me at 204 then. I pressume anyway <shrugs>

I hate being at work!

[CSFurious]

seriously, unless you play 4 to 7 hours per day +2 con tomes do not drop from the sky & neither does all that other gear either especially when you spend your time playing multiple characters

anyway, the easiest way is to make a human sor because you can easily have starting chr of 18 & con of 16

when a +2 con tome drops from the sky, you can have a con of 24 with a +6 item on your brand-new human sor

this week would actually be a great week to re-roll as there is +25 bonus & you could probably get to level 12 or 14 by Sunday if you took off a few days from work or decided not to sleep that much

sounds like a lot of fun

the above is satire, & i think your sor is fine as is as i believe in freewill & also sticking it to the man, i.e., players who know everything

additionally, i have decided that, for the time being, if current end-game requires a sor to throw around heal scrolls in the shroud that i will not be playing any sor because that is not my idea of fun

peace


I called my wife and she annoyingly agreed to look at my character. ANd first off, I apologize, she said my toon is showing 190 hp, not 194. I also asked her to read back my con ability and she said its 15. so either I ate a +1 tome or I actually have a +5 con item on (pretty sure its a 4).

As for giant favor, yes, that I already have. Im not sure about the draconic vit and I dare not ask my wife to check again. so ill have to look later. but at this point im assuming it is the draconic vit., because that and a +6 con item would put me at 204 then. I pressume anyway <shrugs>

I hate being at work!

[Deragoth]

UMD, and Concentration are the most important. Diplomacy would be nice to have... if you're not a noob like me and only took a 10 intelligence.

Hey, are you guys with the +36 UMD taking Skill Focus? I've been thinking about picking this feat up...

[Oreg]

UMD, and Concentration are the most important. Diplomacy would be nice to have... if you're not a noob like me and only took a 10 intelligence.

Hey, are you guys with the +36 UMD taking Skill Focus? I've been thinking about picking this feat up...

No to skill focus unless you want to take it early and respec out of it later. As I have stated before - you only need a few items.

Head of Good Fortune
Seven Fingered Gloves
Great Commander + CHA item (yes, I know it will take some time but start on it anyway)

[Deragoth]

Ahh yes, forgot about the gloves... maybe because I've been trying to pull them for over a year and I STILL HAVEN'T GOT THEM. Stupid gloves.

[Heladron]

An important point of note...

Any sorc admitting to not having UMD would find themselves ostracized eventually, unless they only play with a small group of people. Admit to enough parties that can't heal yourself and can't ress the cleric as a sorc and you will find your sorc unwanted.

It's just the reality of the state of the game. It's the difference between being loved by healers, and being hated by them.

I admit my UMD is sub-par. I play in guild as well as numerous PUGs. I used to put points into it, but have never had to go past two rez rings so I started to reconsider the benefit.

100+ CSW Pots - Check
2 Ancestor Rings - Check
180+ HP - Check

I always have money for lots of pots and carry no less than 100 at any point. Are heal scrolls more efficient? Sure, but sorcs are more than likely spewing money from every orifice anyway. I know mine is pretty well to do and I try to be self sufficient so the cleric is not baby sitting me. In fact I will often tell them lay off the healing and I'll pot up until I get really low. Save the mana for the Melees.

I don't understand why all the pigeon holing goes on. It's pretty bizarre why people seem to think you need to build a character from Template A+. I've just seen too many different characters. Some you say, Re-Roll, do not pass level 3. Others you send a tell and ask how they just did what they did when everyone else is failing.

Never had anybody ask how big my UMD was, but they did want to whip out my big 10"....Wand of Fireballs. :)

[Oreg]

I admit my UMD is sub-par. I play in guild as well as numerous PUGs. I used to put points into it, but have never had to go past two rez rings so I started to reconsider the benefit.

100+ CSW Pots - Check
2 Ancestor Rings - Check
180+ HP - Check

I always have money for lots of pots and carry no less than 100 at any point. Are heal scrolls more efficient? Sure, but sorcs are more than likely spewing money from every orifice anyway. I know mine is pretty well to do and I try to be self sufficient so the cleric is not baby sitting me. In fact I will often tell them lay off the healing and I'll pot up until I get really low. Save the mana for the Melees.

I don't understand why all the pigeon holing goes on. It's pretty bizarre why people seem to think you need to build a character from Template A+. I've just seen too many different characters. Some you say, Re-Roll, do not pass level 3. Others you send a tell and ask how they just did what they did when everyone else is failing.

Never had anybody ask how big my UMD was, but they did want to whip out my big 10"....Wand of Fireballs. :)


IMO the heal scrolls are as much for other party members as for you. Like your ancestor rings are.

[Merkinsal]

Never had anybody ask how big my UMD was, but they did want to whip out my big 10"....Wand of Fireballs. :)

LMAO. Ya, people talk about firewall but you throw a few empowered potency fireballs in there and everybodys going "oh.. well.. that was easy" lol .... record of my favorite blues.

[Heladron]

IMO the heal scrolls are as much for other party members as for you. Like your ancestor rings are.

In the end I guess some of it comes down to play style. Personally, I've never been in a situation where I've needed to use a heal scroll on a party member, as a sorcerer. I have use wands in clever ways to get a cleric back from near death. Sometimes a hit from a Bears endurance will do the trick and then the party is back in action. Stuff like that. A well timed rage can help like that also. Plus those clever saves are so much more fun than a stock heal.

I just don't think a sorcerers should be ostracized for not putting points into a non-class skill because the general population feels they should have to. That's all. I personally gave up putting points into it at level 11 or 12. It was just something I wasn't finding myself using in the parties I run in, but maybe it'll come in handy one day.

[Kamboe]

Order of Stat Importance:
Cha
Con
Dex
Wis
Int
Str

UMD on my sorc is very important to me, i got the 7 fingered gloves, SF UMD, and Head...which puts me to a 35.5(i think),
usin a Heal Scroll on a 5 isnt bad....when i get my Wiz 6 Cha Skill goggles i will get to a 38.5(Medium upgrade)

With 267 hp, Heal scrolls make soloing stuff like SR very easy...

[Mhykke]

CS,

Sure, you don't have to have UMD, it's your choice, but I just don't get the opposition to throwing a heal or res scroll around.


Why is it bad if the sorc can raise someone w/ a scroll, or throw a heal around here and there? Makes quests go by faster, makes soloing easier.....it's fine if you don't want UMD, but why the UMD hate? I don't get it.

[Lizardgrad89]

Order of Stat Importance:
Cha
Con
Dex
Wis
Int
Str

UMD on my sorc is very important to me, i got the 7 fingered gloves, SF UMD, and Head...which puts me to a 35.5(i think),
usin a Heal Scroll on a 5 isnt bad....when i get my Wiz 6 Cha Skill goggles i will get to a 38.5(Medium upgrade)

With 267 hp, Heal scrolls make soloing stuff like SR very easy...

If you take the force of personality feat you can drop wis to the bottom.

[CSFurious]

when i play my sor, i mainly charm & instakill; i also use all of the good fire/cold spells

i also cast haste constantly & will usually hand out blur & stoneskin & some resists

i have never been in a quest where i had to use either a raise dead or heal scroll on another party member, i am lucky, i play in balanced groups with good players & i do not like soloing because i enjoy others

i chug potions & keep myself alive with my buffs, twitch skills & metagaming

if i wanted to use heal scrolls i would play my bards or roll up a cleric, it is just a playstyle issue

my hate/resentment comes from the players who say that any sor who does not have umd is gimped

IMO if a sor is in a balanced party of good players with metagaming, there is never any need to use a umd scroll as a poster previously eloquently stated

as long as i contribute to the group, no one should judge where my skill points were spent especially on a non-class skill

anyway, i will just play my bards for a while as i enjoy playing them the most

i have also been ignoring my dragonmarked halfling wizard, with the xp bonus, it might be a good time to play him & thankfully i will not be required to use umd scrolls on other party members with him at end-game

later

CS,

Sure, you don't have to have UMD, it's your choice, but I just don't get the opposition to throwing a heal or res scroll around.


Why is it bad if the sorc can raise someone w/ a scroll, or throw a heal around here and there? Makes quests go by faster, makes soloing easier.....it's fine if you don't want UMD, but why the UMD hate? I don't get it.

[Mhykke]

when i play my sor, i mainly charm & instakill; i also use all of the good fire/cold spells

i also cast haste constantly & will usually hand out blur & stoneskin & some resists

i have never been in a quest where i had to use either a raise dead or heal scroll on another party member, i am lucky, i play in balanced groups with good players & i do not like soloing because i enjoy others

i chug potions & keep myself alive with my buffs, twitch skills & metagaming

if i wanted to use heal scrolls i would play my bards or roll up a cleric, it is just a playstyle issue

my hate/resentment comes from the players who say that any sor who does not have umd is gimped

IMO if a sor is in a balanced party of good players with metagaming, there is never any need to use a umd scroll as a poster previously eloquently stated

as long as i contribute to the group, no one should judge where my skill points were spent especially on a non-class skill

anyway, i will just play my bards for a while as i enjoy playing them the most

i have also been ignoring my dragonmarked halfling wizard, with the xp bonus, it might be a good time to play him & thankfully i will not be required to use umd scrolls on other party members with him at end-game

later

I know what you're saying about role and all that. But if you can optimize your role, and not detract the least bit from it, while helping out w/ others' "roles", isn't that even better?

If everyone in the party could not only do what their primary "role" is, but have additional ways in which to contribute, where's the harm in that? I mean, I love my barbarian, but if someone offered me a way for him to toss heals around on himself or others that didn't take away from his build at all, I'd think it was a good thing.

[twix]

i forgot you are the battle cleric who plays drunk

np

Funny thing is i can run circles around your toons completely smashed .Drunk ftw :)

[unionyes]

I know what you're saying about role and all that. But if you can optimize your role, and not detract the least bit from it, while helping out w/ others' "roles", isn't that even better?

If everyone in the party could not only do what their primary "role" is, but have additional ways in which to contribute, where's the harm in that? I mean, I love my barbarian, but if someone offered me a way for him to toss heals around on himself or others that didn't take away from his build at all, I'd think it was a good thing.

/agreed.

The main contention now (forget about the question that started this, everyone else has and I'm sure that by now the OP has cancelled his account because we are all a little crazy around here) is whose way is the best way. And by best, they mean only. And by only, they mean everyone that hasn't done it that way may as well reroll. And by reroll, they mean that if you don't they will never run with you.

There seems to be two camps now. UMD = ubergreat sorc, and UMD = totally gimped sorc.

I would love to see both sides square off against each other in PVP, although the UMD specced would probably win because they can heal each other......................

[CSFurious]

if i cat-assed 12 hours a day like you, it would be hard not to be better & i would have to be drunk as well to not be bored out of my mind


Funny thing is i can run circles around your toons completely smashed .Drunk ftw :)

[Merkinsal]

I know what you're saying about role and all that. But if you can optimize your role, and not detract the least bit from it, while helping out w/ others' "roles", isn't that even better?

I dont know so I'm asking, "What is given up?" Could someone please show the stats on 7 fingered gloves and the Head thing people use for UMD? Then I'll have a better idea of what I will have given up and gained. Also of course there is too the SF UMD that is instead of another FEAT(cough).

Just as a point that may be pointless. I don't jump in firewalls as some apparently do, as was mentioned earlier. I don't even just jump over the firewalls. I jump over the solid fog cloud that the firewall is in. I am new so please correct me. We were in the final fight at the Crucible (lowbeeeeee I know). The leader says to the cleric, "All you need to do is keep (sorc) alive, thats all, just keep him alive." and to me lol, " I want firewalls, lots of firewalls". The cleric had nothing to do. Nobody got close. I could see them coming a mile away and just jumped to the other side of my two solid fog clouds and 6 firewalls. Bada bing bada boom, two jumps and it was all over. I never see other sorcs do that. Am I unusual? Is this something other sorcs just can't do? I didn't put that much enhancement into jump, or did I? I truly don't know because I'm at work. Boy did I have agro. Cleric was safe. I was having a wonderful time. Good times!

[twix]

if i cat-assed 12 hours day like you, it would be hard not to be better & i would have to be drunk as well to not be bored out of mind

Rofl i work at night and play maybe 4 hours a day when i get out.once again dont post about things you dont know.Go reroll practice a bit and then comment and maybe someone will take you serious.

[philo]

seriously, unless you play 4 to 7 hours per day +2 con tomes do not drop from the sky & neither does all that other gear either especially when you spend your time playing multiple characters



+2 tomes drop from end rewards from any vale quest on normal...any new mod 6 content. Its very possible to trade for/buy one. Not to mention we now have 20th raid rewards in game. Just because you are gimp doesnt mean even some casual players do not have these. You might actually have to try to attain one instead of waiting for one to fall from the sky=X. But then there is no reason to have a +2 con tome in order to hit 200 hp anyway /shrug

The only "other gear" listed was a 6 con item, greater false life belt and a minos legion. If you are unable to attain these items you are doing something wrong.



anyway, the easiest way is to make a human sor because you can easily have starting chr of 18 & con of 16

when a +2 con tome drops from the sky, you can have a con of 24 with a +6 item on your brand-new human sor

Actually, my sorc starting stats were 18 chr and 18 con. Human sorcs can hit 28 con without any greensteel items and without gimping themselves. Not 24 like you seem to think. But then I dont expect you to have a clue.



this week would actually be a great week to re-roll as there is +25 bonus & you could probably get to level 12 or 14 by Sunday if you took off a few days from work or decided not to sleep that much

Oh ya, I almost forgot about that. Good idea. Get cracking, chop chop




the above is satire, & i think your sor is fine as is as i believe in freewill & also sticking it to the man, i.e., players who know everything


You classify players who know more then you as "the man" lol?




additionally, i have decided that, for the time being, if current end-game requires a sor to throw around heal scrolls in the shroud that i will not be playing any sor because that is not my idea of fun
peace

While I could if I wanted to... I dont even carry heal scrolls...or rez scrolls anymore actually. I have a few rings and cure serious wands are more then enough to heal yourself unless you screw up. I dont like healing/buffing people /shrug. Thats not what my character was built for.

You obviously havnt spent much time in the shroud. It is one of the most fun raids.

Every time you post you make it quite obvious that you arent very knowledgeable about the game. Maybe you should refrain from giving others advice in the future.

[twix]

Every time you post you make it quite obvious that you arent very knowledgeable about the game. Maybe you should refrain from giving others advice in the future.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So true.

[Samy]

I've never come across the attitude that a sorcerer should have UMD, and I'm surprised some people feel so strongly about it that non-UMD sorcs should "reroll".

While I agree it's great if a sorc has UMD and can bring back a cleric in a dire situation, it's not their role and IMO it's silly to expect that of the sorc. It sure is great if they can, but it strikes me as odd to *expect* sorcs to be rezzing people.

Though he didn't put his stance very diplomatically, I certainly agree with CSFurious that any guild that wanted to dictate how I should build *my* character, I wouldn't want to be a part of.

[Aspenor]

I've never come across the attitude that a sorcerer should have UMD, and I'm surprised some people feel so strongly about it that non-UMD sorcs should "reroll".

While I agree it's great if a sorc has UMD and can bring back a cleric in a dire situation, it's not their role and IMO it's silly to expect that of the sorc. It sure is great if they can, but it strikes me as odd to *expect* sorcs to be rezzing people.

Though he didn't put his stance very diplomatically, I certainly agree with CSFurious that any guild that wanted to dictate how I should build *my* character, I wouldn't want to be a part of.

It's not a matter of dictation, it's a matter of playstyle.

Everybody is expected to be self sufficient. We often have no cleric. We often run with 2 or 3 people.

And everybody in said guild is interested in having the MOST useful and MOST versatile character possible. It's a no-brainer, with 34-38 charisma, you **** well better have UMD. It makes no sense not to, other than "it's not my role" which is about as lame an excuse as I have ever heard.

It's not my ROGUE'S role to cast heal scrolls and reconstructs via UMD either, but I do it all the time.

[Samy]

It's not a matter of dictation, it's a matter of playstyle.I don't care what you call it. If it's a "build your character like this or we kick you out of the guild", then I don't want to be in a guild like that. Period. I don't care whether you call it dictation, playstyle, or foobar. The name you give to that behavior is immaterial. It's reprehensible to me, whatever the pet name you like to give it.

[Aspenor]

I don't care what you call it. If it's a "build your character like this or we kick you out of the guild", then I don't want to be in a guild like that. Period. I don't care whether you call it dictation, playstyle, or foobar. The name you give to that behavior is immaterial. It's reprehensible to me, whatever the pet name you like to give it.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You obviously don't understand.

Trying to explain the good-naturedness of my guild is obviously not going to stick in your mind, because you just want to believe that you're being repressed.

The ONLY way somebody in my guild would make a sorc without UMD is by mistake. And if it happened, they would be the brunt of a joke for 24 hours, get called a noob a few times, then they would reroll and be supplied with twink tomes and items to powerlevel up to catch up with the rest of us.

But in all reality, suffice to say that nobody in my guild is noobtastic enough to roll a sorc without UMD. It takes a certain amount level of play to even be considered for the guild, and one of the most important factors is being able to take care of yourself if you can. Sorcs can take care of themselves if built properly, thus it is expected.

And yes we are snobs, deal with it.

[unionyes]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You obviously don't understand.

Trying to explain the good-naturedness of my guild is obviously not going to stick in your mind, because you just want to believe that you're being repressed.

The ONLY way somebody in my guild would make a sorc without UMD is by mistake. And if it happened, they would be the brunt of a joke for 24 hours, get called a noob a few times, then they would reroll and be supplied with twink tomes and items to powerlevel up to catch up with the rest of us.

But in all reality, suffice to say that nobody in my guild is noobtastic enough to roll a sorc without UMD. It takes a certain amount level of play to even be considered for the guild, and one of the most important factors is being able to take care of yourself if you can. Sorcs can take care of themselves if built properly, thus it is expected.

And yes we are snobs, deal with it.

Can somebody tell me the name of this guild, and what server they are on? I may have missed it, or the name may have disappeared during one of the flames prior. I just want to know who they are so that I may humbly learn at their feet. Maybe they can put me on their 'farm team' guild until I am one day, Vulkoorim willing, good enough to play with them. Not. (But I would like to know who they are, they are being presented in a certain way so I would like to know who they are.)

[Taerdra]

Mine or more properly the guild I belong to is an open guild... but I really don't understand why people get annoyed by others who want to play with people they enjoy playing with (whether noobs, experts, whatever). This is a game for fun, so you should be able to play with whom you want and not have to play with those you don't. It's not a big deal, and I don't see why people get insulted by that...

In terms of the debate, this can be summed up briefly by:
1) UMD is very very helpful, especially if you want to be self-sufficient.
2) CON is the second primary stat you want. DEX would be, but rays don't work as in PnP here.
3) HPs are important on every character including the Sorceror.

I think new players would be good to heed those points. How much you heed the rest is up to you.

[Aspenor]

Funny thing is i can run circles around your toons completely smashed .Drunk ftw :)


Can somebody tell me the name of this guild, and what server they are on? I may have missed it, or the name may have disappeared during one of the flames prior. I just want to know who they are so that I may humbly learn at their feet. Maybe they can put me on their 'farm team' guild until I am one day, Vulkoorim willing, good enough to play with them. Not. (But I would like to know who they are, they are being presented in a certain way so I would like to know who they are.)

See the signature of Twix. That's the guild I'm talking about.

I am in two guilds technically, and keep them out of my sig. It's pretty enough.

[Deragoth]

You'd think we were killing puppies when we talk about UMD being a fairly obvious choice for a high charisma character. It's an incredible skill to have available. If you don't want to take it, that's fine, you don't need it to be a good or effective player... But it can be an amazing boon to many classes.

Not taking it because "healing/rezzing/BBQing" isn't my job is just plain silly. What about race-restricted items? That alone seems worth it. However, expecting people that see the value of UMD to agree with a choice of not taking it is a bit of a stretch.

[Merkinsal]

expecting people that see the value of UMD to agree with a choice of not taking it is a bit of a stretch.

Or vise versa, but that's not the point. ***, that's a sane, completely sensible statement. Who do you think you are, coming into this thread making sense? And being agreeable, whats with that?

[transtemporal]

Heh, on the UMD thing, at first I wondered about it too. Being a cross-class skill and even with a high cha, I didn't see why how I could get it up to the level where I could reliably use CSW without failing, but now... its the best thing since sliced cheese. It means I can help out the healing effort (albeit slightly) and I can heal myself.

[unionyes]

Or vise versa, but that's not the point. ***, that's a sane, completely sensible statement. Who do you think you are, coming into this thread making sense? And being agreeable, whats with that?

No kidding. I thought this thread was the 'My Way Or The Highway' thread.

[alchilito]

I have found UMD to be the single most useful skill to put into my characters. Simply being able to use any item in the game regardless of race requirement makes it worth for me, and I am sure as the level caps increase more good stuff will come out of it.

Peace.

[Merkinsal]

No kidding. I thought this thread was the 'My Way Or The Highway' thread.

Ya, most insightful isn't it? In my short time I have never seen a thread generate so much response and so I have been compelled to pay more attention to it than any other thread I have ever read. I am very conscious of the fact there are some "concepts (whatever)" that are clearly superior. I did not have the slightest idea UMD was anywhere such a thing that a premier guild would put such emphasis on. The fact that Transtemporal, Aspenor, and others, and their guilds, feel so strongly about this gives me pause, as it should any sane person (although I may be insane in other respects lol). That's not to say there aren't aspects of the game, nuances, that may escape them. (Sorry guys but I'm not about to start genuflecting yet). For me, it make sense to take advantage of the fact I have the highest charisma of any character in the game and go with UMD. The fact that no one has been able to give me a better alternative for the use of my enhancements tips the balance for me. But no, I'm not about to reroll my lvl 14 Sorc, my first character, because hes uber and a great addition to any party and my guild is ok with that. One day, however, I'll reroll a 32 point build, and he'll have UMD. At some point I think I'll find something those guys haven't thought of, but that isn't today.

[Ruselticks]

Like was mentioned in the above post, max chr and as much con as you can get...for drow that means 20chr 16 con

For a nuking/damage build you will want maximize and empower feats...and every good sorc has heighten.

Max +spell dmg enhancements and all of the crit enhancements you can take.

Trying but get only 14 in con and 2 points left when building one. Is there something i miss ?

[Oreg]

Trying but get only 14 in con and 2 points left when building one. Is there something i miss ?

32 pt builds?

Edit. 14 con is fine btw. with a +6 item you will be over 200 hp.

[unionyes]

Trying but get only 14 in con and 2 points left when building one. Is there something i miss ?

Lots of times builds that experienced players throw out there include eating a +1 tome or two at level 1, or else assume a 32 point build.

Just do the best you can with what you have. I am sure you will love your sorcerer, however he turns out.

[Ruselticks]

Dont have 1750 yet, but not so far. Do i should wait to build a human with 18 con 18 char and get the free feat.
Or the drow with 14 con 20 char (and 2 points in intel to get one more skill, lets say spot or jump) is more suited ?

Both build will have concentration and UMD.

[Oreg]

Dont have 1750 yet, but not so far. Do i should wait to build a human with 18 con 18 char and get the free feat.
Or the drow with 14 con 20 char (and 2 points in intel to get one more skill, lets say spot or jump) is more suited ?

Both build will have concentration and UMD.

Either one actually. These days the extra feat is nice with many people taking two feats for spell pen. Extra DC and sp on the drow is nice also. At this point its a personal choice. Personally I'd go drow and then when you get him 1750 if you want to roll another caster - try human then.

[Desteria]

YOu can get UMD to the point where you dotn fail heal scrolls ever actuyl can get it higher..
I have +40 umd on my pure 28pt human sorc with out any bost, I could add +3 more to that, maby 2 mroe on top of that for a feat (not sure if they put it in ddo i never looked). Adn could add +5 from human versitility if i wanted to wast AP's fro a temp bost.

why is this very very very usfull, well a Godo HP tank can basicaly be kept up with heals scrolsl on part 4/5 of the shroud onyl falling behind slowly, so the odd mass cure spell or real heal from a cleric catches them up, this means once you burn your tank on part 5 you can play cleric for a tank rather then sit around, also 2 umd people can easly kepe a tank up working together, this makes thous cleric light run a lot easyer take 2 clerics 2 casters with UMD and a bard all fo a sudden you cna have a lot of DPS peopel and keep them all healed :)

yes untill your umd get high it slow healing but beign able to pop Heal scrolls on your self yum yum.

[CSFurious]

i have reflected over the past week & determined that i was weak noobsauce when i rolled my sor

my only defense was that i had been playing the game for about 6 months when i rolled that sor

i love her but everyone needs a mule

she does not have enough hitpoints & every sor should have some umd for something to do when the mana runs out

i am going to use a 32-point human sor for my next reroll project

i am good at power-leveling now (just took a bard on khyber from 1 to 15 in less than a month) & if i dedicate myself will be in the shroud in about 30 days

but, if any of you tanks think that i am spamming heal scrolls on you without payment, let's just say that the squelch list & me are good friends

later

[Oreg]

i have reflected over the past week & determined that i was weak noobsauce when i rolled my sor

my only defense was that i had been playing the game for about 6 months when i rolled that sor

i love her but everyone needs a mule

she does not have enough hitpoints & every sor should have some umd for something to do when the mana runs out

i am going to use a 32-point human sor for my next reroll project

i am good at power-leveling now (just took a bard on khyber from 1 to 15 in less than a month) & if i dedicate myself will be in the shroud in about 30 days

but, if any of you tanks think that i am spamming heal scrolls on you without payment, let's just say that the squelch list & me are good friends

later


All that aggravation and arguing ......:(

Good luck with the new Sorc. :)

[CSFurious]

it just takes me a while sometimes as is evidenced in this lengthy thread


All that aggravation and arguing ......:(

Good luck with the new Sorc. :)

[Merkinsal]

it just takes me a while sometimes as is evidenced in this lengthy thread

Thanks for the great thread CS. Best one I've ever seen and wouldn't be if not for you.