to rogue or not to rogue...

[canacorn]

so, been playin for a bit,now. my main is a rogue, about 3/4 of the way to my 32 point build. handful of other toons- rogue/ranger, dex based fighter, and a straight ranger i recently conceived with tempest in mind (all drow- honestly, mainly because i like playing drow). i've done nothing in the way of any type of caster as of yet (ranger just started and rogue/ranger only two lvls of ranger for bowstrength and free twf). toying with the idea of a drow bard that i'd like to be a fairly competent secondary tank contribution while still utilizing bard abilities near max. prolly won't pursue twf, but go sword and board finesse with possibility of drow rapier/ss enhancemants to buff my to hit. more than likely, i'll go big cha for the obvious bard utility and gimp wis with force of personality to shore up will saves. considering the two rogue splash for evasion and a tiny bit of backstab bonus. my thinking is that i won't actively pursue rogue abilities as i'm gimping wis and the seeming need for a fair amount of specialization necessary for a rogue to be viable subsequent to mod 6. regardless, i'd like to go heavy umd/haggle along with dip and perform for bard stuff-which rogue levels wouldn't slow down too bad. to finalize, i guess the primary question is will the rogue splash gimp bard abilities too much at upper levels? relative to that, is my thinking in regards to rogue abilities in line? the next would be just how much int do i need in regards to keeping obvious skills maxed while maintaining con and str respectability. rough idea is 12 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 14 int, 8 wis, 16 cha; bard1, rogue1, bard1, rogue1, bardx with fop 1st lvl and finesse at 3rd. lots of good hand me down rapiers/shortswords as well as stat items and mithral armor.

[sigtrent]

I wouldn't take rogue with bard for the sake of evasion only. A bard doesn't make an especialy good defensive tank and you don't have much need of running through traps unless you are taking the rogue levels... what you loose (spells mostly) just doesn't seem to be worth what you gain.

If you wanted rogue skills, I'd say go for it. Rogue/Bard builds nicely since bards get a lot of skill points to work with and share a few class skills.

Also I'd recomend you don't go for a finesse based bard unless you have some plan for super AC or you really want to do ranged combat. STR based is ultimately less "expensive" build wise freeing you up to do other things with the finesse feat pick.

I've never been playing my bard and thought, "Dang if I only had evasion!" He's rarely out in front of the party pulling agro or running into traps. He hangs back until the fight has bet started and then wades into the fray once agro is established on those better able to handle it. (you can build a bard to take agro but it doesn't sound like that is what you are after)

[canacorn]

fair enough- it seems i prolly just wanna go pure bard then... the finesse i thought i'd lean towards as i'd keep him in mithral for minimum spell failure and take advantage of it's high dex allowance and my ready stable of finessable weapons from my other toons. to beg elaboration on your advice, what would you suggest i start str at?

[skraus1]

No if you want to go rogue and bard and also invest in int, you should be able to rogue. I've done every trap on elite in mod 6 with mine. They're not all that crazy. All you need is a 14 int. Spot is not needed in this sort of build.

If you do this START ROGUE. You're losing out on skills for no real reason. Also take rogue 2 about level 9. That way you'll feel like a bard as soon as possible.

[canacorn]

really appreciate prompt input on this. i actually started a rogue last night that i could opt for the bard idea or go straight rogue with a tough umd. while i had the finesse idea in mind vaguely, i took fop as my first feat. think i might try him and see how he plays as well as a pure bard and feel them both out. its relatively easy to hit 4, if not 6, and try them both on for size.