MAX DPS TWF Ranger

[Illuminati]

Too many 'ifs' out there to multiclass and lose STWF, Tempest II and whatever else. If you wanna stay pure and have the highest melee with surviveability, go Human.

Race:Human
Class: Ranger
Alignment: Subjective

1. Dodge
1. Khopesh
3. Mobility
6. Spring Attack
9. IC:Slash
12. OTWF
15. Power Attack

Favored: Undead, Elemental, Evil Outsiders, Constructs

17 Str *13 Pts (+4 Level, +1 Human Enhancement, +6 Item, +2 Favor Tome, +2 Spell +2 Greensteel +2 Rage Pot) = 36 /40 (+4 DoubleMadstoned)
14 Dex *6 Pts (+3 Enhancement, +4 Item, +1 Tome) = 22
16 Con *10 Pts (+6 Item, +1 Human Enhancement, +1 Tome, +2 Rage Pot) = 26 / 34 (+8 DoubleMadstoned)
8 Int
11 Wis *3 Pts (+6 Item, +1 Tome) = 18
8 Cha

HP:
128 Base
20 Heroic Durability
128 Con Modifier
30 Greater False Life
10 Favor
18 Toughness Helm
------
334 (+64 if Madstoned for 398)

Saves:
+10/5/5
+7/6/4 Stats
+5/5/5 Item
+4/4/4 Greater Hero
---------
+26/20/18 *Still high, and in awesomesauce land if you play with a pally.

Damage: Self Potential Greensteel Khopesh
1d10 (~5.5) + 5 + 2d6 Holy (~6.5) + 1d6 Acid (~3.5) + 15 Strength + 12 Favored + 5 Power Attack +2 Spell = 55 Average per hit

For your crits add: +18 Seeker (Bloodstone) + 30 (Strength) + 22 (Base Dmg) + 24 (Favored) + 10 (Power Attack) + 4d6 Acid Burst (~12.5) + 4 Spell

174 DAMAGE ON A CRIT Average....

AC:
10 Base
10 Armor (Delving Suit)
6 Dexterity
5 Protection
5 Natural
4 Insight
6 Dodge (Ring, Feat, Bracers)
2 Tempest
0/4 Shield Spell
0/1 Haste
-2 Rage
--------
46
51 (Shield Spell, Haste)

Gear Goal:
Main Hand: Greensteel Holy, Acid Burst (2x Stoneskin per rest) + 4 Insight AC
Off Hand: Greensteel Acid, Good Burst (2x Stoneskin per rest) + 2 Exceptional Strength
Armor: Delving Suit
Bracer: Chaosgarde (Dodge +2)
Belt: Greater False Life Belt
Boot: Madstone 20% Stride/+4 Dex
Helm: Heavy Fort / Toughness
Ring1: +6 Constitution
Ring2: Chattering Ring (+13 Spot, +3 Dodge)
Goggles: Greensteel (Poison, Disease proof and other stuff)
Cloak: +5 Resistance
Neck: +2 Wisdom / +5 Protection
Gloves: +6 Strength
Trinket: Bloodstone

Note:
If you are a lucky and have 2x Deathnips you can go Pierce instead and perhaps grab something else instead of Khopesh, but you will see more benefits from Khopesh over Heavy Picks on average.

[Illuminati]

*Reserved*

[EinarMal]

<Insert fake forum cop title here>

You are now officially banned from making any more max DPS threads, thank you and have a nice day <insert game sound here>

:D

[Turial]

Yeah Humans are nice for survivability. There is nothing quite like being taken from 1 hp to full (250ish for my ranger) from a 300+ hp mass cure light wounds.

[Gol]

Dwarf has about 80 more HP (Dwarven Toughness), better saves (higher Con and Dwarven Spell Res), higher AC (Dwarven AM) for 1 less Strength and 1 less feat. Raw DPS, yes, Human wins if you can't get the +3 Str tome to make up for it. For all intents and purposes, I'm still sticking with Dwarf.

However, you only started with 17 Str, so you just lost out on your only advantage of being Human.

Max DPS for a pure Ranger? Not even excluding gear. 18 Starting Str and a +3 Reaver tome get another str point. Sure, you can't count on the +3 tome, but it doesn't even do you any good.

Max DPS TWF for a mostly Ranger? Barbarian 1 for real Rage and Fighter 2 for the Str enhancement, you're just getting further behind.

[Illuminati]

Sorry, only pure rangers need apply =)

Seriously gang, Tempest II, STWF for free (at 15 most likely). No reason to multiclass really.

[Illuminati]

<Insert fake forum cop title here>

You are now officially banned from making any more max DPS threads, thank you and have a nice day <insert game sound here>

:D

I know, but what's worse, MAX threads or Dwarfism =p

[maddmatt70]

You were razzing Shade in the barbarian forums about his title and yet you go and do the same thing utilizing suboptimal weapons from a dps standpoint. These weapons that you have listed are not even the highest dps from a greensteel weapon standpoint (other greensteel weapons do more dps) and besides that there are better weapons out there to be found in chests, etc.. Its great that you like greensteel weapons and crafting, but to turn a blind eye on logic and the facts is another. In another couple of months you will be onto the next great thing so how can I take this statement seriously. I for the most part like your builds - your fighter build is very nice for instance, but hey man enough with the greensteel weapon stuff..

[Benjai]

No IC: Pierce for W/P? I'd drop power attack or OTWF in a heartbeat for it.

Also seems sorta buff dependant, if you don't have Rams Might or Rage your sitting at 32, take away your weapon and your at 30. What happens when new loot or some other situation renders your green-steels unnecessary? Building a character based around weapons never lasts long, remember dual retribution builds? Seems kinda gimmicky to me.

Remember raid loot is kinda hard to get, took me my 20th titan to get a chattering ring (and if I hadn't gotten it then I probably still wouldn't have it, a month later), and who runs the dragon anymore, the delving suit might be hard to get.

Also I'd highly think madstone boots would be very counter-productive. I mean if your madstoned you literally ARE a watered down barbarian who crits less often and hits way less harder and has less to-hit, and less hitpoints.

[Illuminati]

Dwarf has about 80 more HP (Dwarven Toughness), better saves (higher Con and Dwarven Spell Res), higher AC (Dwarven AM) for 1 less Strength and 1 less feat. Raw DPS, yes, Human wins if you can't get the +3 Str tome to make up for it. For all intents and purposes, I'm still sticking with Dwarf.

However, you only started with 17 Str, so you just lost out on your only advantage of being Human.

Max DPS for a pure Ranger? Not even excluding gear. 18 Starting Str and a +3 Reaver tome get another str point. Sure, you can't count on the +3 tome, but it doesn't even do you any good.

Max DPS TWF for a mostly Ranger? Barbarian 1 for real Rage and Fighter 2 for the Str enhancement, you're just getting further behind.

That's it, I am making another compare thread!!! =p

Pure Class , pure class, pure class. Human PURE class >>>> Dwarven Pure Class. If (and its probably a big IF at this point) they give us STWF at 15 for free, Tempest II (+15% Melee Alacrity, +3 AC), then the pure will be dominant.

BTW, your math is wrong. (Using ur build as reference)

Dwarf:
+63 HP (compared to mid 300 human, its plenty)
+4 Fort / +4 Reflex / +0 Will (Will is the only one that matters when not above 20, here it is equal to your build)

Human: (if turbine comes through)
STWF (1 More Attack)
Tempest II (1 More Attack)
which would be roughly 20% more DPS if they do it.

[Illuminati]

Maybe OTWF, not PA.

My Ranger always has Rams up, even the hybrids.

Greensteels are build worthy atm and I am pretty bored at work =p

I thought so too about Madstone still I watched people use them. Basically buff and go. Trust your healer for heals and your all set since your buffs last 16 mins.

This is a very playable viable build, not some 'coulda' 'woulda' 'shoulda' and gives credence to pure classes.


No IC: Pierce for W/P? I'd drop power attack or OTWF in a heartbeat for it.

Also seems sorta buff dependant, if you don't have Rams Might or Rage your sitting at 32, take away your weapon and your at 30. What happens when new loot or some other situation renders your green-steels unnecessary? Building a character based around weapons never lasts long, remember dual retribution builds? Seems kinda gimmicky to me.

Remember raid loot is kinda hard to get, took me my 20th titan to get a chattering ring (and if I hadn't gotten it then I probably still wouldn't have it, a month later), and who runs the dragon anymore, the delving suit might be hard to get.

Also I'd highly think madstone boots would be very counter-productive. I mean if your madstoned you literally ARE a watered down barbarian who crits less often and hits way less harder and has less to-hit, and less hitpoints.

[Gol]

+4 Fort / +4 Reflex / +0 Will (Will is the only one that matters when not above 20, here it is equal to your build)Not counting the +5 to all saves vs spells I get as a Dwarf. Plus, your math was based on +5 resistance, mine is +4. Vs spells, it's more like +10/+10/+5 over yours.

In the interest of being kind to others on the Ranger forums, I'm taking my leave of this thread with one more comment.

IMO, this is a less than max DPS-even-for-a-pure-Ranger build that needs the extra HPs of a Dwarf, extra saves of a Dwarf, extra AC of a Dwarf, and has nothing to gain by not multiclassing at least 1 level, and only delayed gratification by multiclassing 2 or 3 levels.

[Illuminati]

You were razzing Shade in the barbarian forums about his title and yet you go and do the same thing utilizing suboptimal weapons from a dps standpoint. These weapons that you have listed are not even the highest dps from a greensteel weapon standpoint (other greensteel weapons do more dps) and besides that there are better weapons out there to be found in chests, etc.. Its great that you like greensteel weapons and crafting, but to turn a blind eye on logic and the facts is another. In another couple of months you will be onto the next great thing so how can I take this statement seriously. I for the most part like your builds - your fighter build is very nice for instance, but hey man enough with the greensteel weapon stuff..

Its just a template for people who want to stay pure. Multi-class is a poison sometimes and we need to remember that STWF and Tempest II could make us all regret a splash of this and that.

You are correct about the title but like I did to Shade, prove me wrong. Whats a better TWF Greensteel weapon for DPS?

I won't post another MAX lol but it's kinda fun picking on Dwarves.

[EinarMal]

Its just a template for people who want to stay pure. Multi-class is a poison sometimes and we need to remember that STWF and Tempest II could make us all regret a splash of this and that.

I will say that, at least in 3.5, this is generally not true for Rangers and Fighters. Almost no one builds a pure Fighter/Ranger they either MC some other full BAB class or some full BAB prestige class. Now, one can argue that it is a flaw in the base clases that Fighters run out of steam around level 12 and Rangers at 15.

So, unless they add some uber enhancements at level 16+, a pure Ranger will probably be less powerful than one who takes 4-5 levels of another class (as would a Fighter). There just are not a lot of class abilities above that level that make it worthwhile.

Some 3.5 classes were made to benefit from staying pure (Clerics/Wiz/Sorc/Barbarian) and some benefit from MC levels from a strict min/max view of things. It still works to build a pure Ranger but it most likely will not be optimal unless Turbine decides otherwise (which they may or may not do).

[Turial]

Illuminati I think you can free up your gloves slot for something better then +6 str seeing as your wearing the Titan belt (+6 str and GFL). I would honestly put a hp green weave glove in that slot with the upper regen tier and ditch the green steel goggles for something like the DQ goggles. The DPS might be great but if its cut in half by displacement...well such is life.

It may also be a decent idea to take a separate kopesh earth + earth + earth for earth grab. Even if the grab only lands 5% of the time your looking at a distinct advantage gained in terms of DPS and crowd control even if you only use it for the trash mobs between red names and purple raids.

Also it would be interesting to key in the DQ cloak for the +5 resistance one when not fighting casters. Perma blur is a nice thing for when casters either dont or simply refuse to blur the ranger.

[brshelton]

No IC: Pierce for W/P? I'd drop power attack or OTWF in a heartbeat for it.

Also seems sorta buff dependant, if you don't have Rams Might or Rage your sitting at 32, take away your weapon and your at 30. What happens when new loot or some other situation renders your green-steels unnecessary? Building a character based around weapons never lasts long, remember dual retribution builds? Seems kinda gimmicky to me.

Remember raid loot is kinda hard to get, took me my 20th titan to get a chattering ring (and if I hadn't gotten it then I probably still wouldn't have it, a month later), and who runs the dragon anymore, the delving suit might be hard to get.

Also I'd highly think madstone boots would be very counter-productive. I mean if your madstoned you literally ARE a watered down barbarian who crits less often and hits way less harder and has less to-hit, and less hitpoints.

dont talk about Sergod that way! :P

[Oran_Lathor]

Nice dpser... I opted to make my tempest an elf and go with the rapier enhancements instead. (I just can't bring myself to play dwarves or humans for aestic reasons)


I don't do the whole build thing on here, but she'll end up with 346 HP standing, 51 AC dual wielding (+ dragonmarked displacement) and 30 str (effective 38 for dmg purposes with rams and elf enhances).

I've also collected some good weapon sets for her... I'm dying to try out this one:

Main hand: +4 weakening rapier of enfeebling
Off hand: +1 seeker (+10) shortsword of puncturing.

[Illuminati]

Nice dpser... I opted to make my tempest an elf and go with the rapier enhancements instead. (I just can't bring myself to play dwarves or humans for aestic reasons)


I don't do the whole build thing on here, but she'll end up with 346 HP standing, 51 AC dual wielding (+ dragonmarked displacement) and 30 str (effective 38 for dmg purposes with rams and elf enhances).

I've also collected some good weapon sets for her... I'm dying to try out this one:

Main hand: +4 weakening rapier of enfeebling
Off hand: +1 seeker (+10) shortsword of puncturing.

Same, though I am Dex and haven't regretted it ever. Hes 26/34 so it's not that bad actually for DPS. I just picked up a +4 Crippling of Puncturing Rapier and I am a big fan. I use it alot over my W/P rapier since I am so permadamageparanoid.

[Illuminati]

Illuminati I think you can free up your gloves slot for something better then +6 str seeing as your wearing the Titan belt (+6 str and GFL). I would honestly put a hp green weave glove in that slot with the upper regen tier and ditch the green steel goggles for something like the DQ goggles. The DPS might be great but if its cut in half by displacement...well such is life.

It may also be a decent idea to take a separate kopesh earth + earth + earth for earth grab. Even if the grab only lands 5% of the time your looking at a distinct advantage gained in terms of DPS and crowd control even if you only use it for the trash mobs between red names and purple raids.

Also it would be interesting to key in the DQ cloak for the +5 resistance one when not fighting casters. Perma blur is a nice thing for when casters either dont or simply refuse to blur the ranger.

Good suggestions. I can't wait to see the numbers on the earth grab one since it looks awesome. I just hope it isn't resisted alot.

A guildie is doing acid + good burst since he thinks it will hit more, which I agree with.

[Illuminati]

I will say that, at least in 3.5, this is generally not true for Rangers and Fighters. Almost no one builds a pure Fighter/Ranger they either MC some other full BAB class or some full BAB prestige class. Now, one can argue that it is a flaw in the base clases that Fighters run out of steam around level 12 and Rangers at 15.

So, unless they add some uber enhancements at level 16+, a pure Ranger will probably be less powerful than one who takes 4-5 levels of another class (as would a Fighter). There just are not a lot of class abilities above that level that make it worthwhile.

Some 3.5 classes were made to benefit from staying pure (Clerics/Wiz/Sorc/Barbarian) and some benefit from MC levels from a strict min/max view of things. It still works to build a pure Ranger but it most likely will not be optimal unless Turbine decides otherwise (which they may or may not do).

Ahh PC's if we had them...errr...wait... isnt that Enhancements =p where the Dwarves get the Dwarven Defender PC with ever Class no matter what =)

You have to admit if STWF and Tempest II, min 15 Ranger is probably a good thing.

[sigtrent]

Sorry, only pure rangers need apply =)

Seriously gang, Tempest II, STWF for free (at 15 most likely). No reason to multiclass really.

That stuff is all still conjecture at this point. Nothing wrong with pure classing a ranger but untill we actualy know... we don't know.

[EinarMal]

Ahh PC's if we had them...errr...wait... isnt that Enhancements =p where the Dwarves get the Dwarven Defender PC with ever Class no matter what =)

You have to admit if STWF and Tempest II, min 15 Ranger is probably a good thing.

Yeah right now it is looking like Ranger 15 will be the sweet spot. To me though I don't care to wait personally, so it wouldn't bother me if I took a Fighter level or two now for example to be better for 3 months then have to wait 3 months and be worse. Again until we get to 20 nobody really knows, and even then they could still release some enhancement or other that would change things.

Any smartly built build works fine, your builds are good, I think the Ranger 15/Fighter 4/Barbarian 1 build I listed in the other thread is good, it honestly doesn't matter much, but it is fun to mess with them. The absolute best thing about this game is how many fun and viable ways you can get to approximately the same end.

[Illuminati]

Yeah right now it is looking like Ranger 15 will be the sweet spot. To me though I don't care to wait personally, so it wouldn't bother me if I took a Fighter level or two now for example to be better for 3 months then have to wait 3 months and be worse. Again until we get to 20 nobody really knows, and even then they could still release some enhancement or other that would change things.

Any smartly built build works fine, your builds are good, I think the Ranger 15/Fighter 4/Barbarian 1 build I listed in the other thread is good, it honestly doesn't matter much, but it is fun to mess with them. The absolute best thing about this game is how many fun and viable ways you can get to approximately the same end.

Well said.

[Illuminati]

Dwarf has about 80 more HP (Dwarven Toughness), better saves (higher Con and Dwarven Spell Res), higher AC (Dwarven AM) for 1 less Strength and 1 less feat. Raw DPS, yes, Human wins if you can't get the +3 Str tome to make up for it. For all intents and purposes, I'm still sticking with Dwarf.

However, you only started with 17 Str, so you just lost out on your only advantage of being Human.

Max DPS for a pure Ranger? Not even excluding gear. 18 Starting Str and a +3 Reaver tome get another str point. Sure, you can't count on the +3 tome, but it doesn't even do you any good.

Max DPS TWF for a mostly Ranger? Barbarian 1 for real Rage and Fighter 2 for the Str enhancement, you're just getting further behind.

Eh? No numbers man. Please post them. This is a pure class Max btw, not a hybrid but give me a few and I'll post the DA vs. Khopesh numbers from a Human vs. Dwarf.

[Illuminati]

Reserved for later to compare DPS builds.

Pure Dwarf Ranger: 2x Dwarven Axes (30 Str)

Hybrid Ranger Tank: 2x Khopesh (32 Str)

Pure Human Ranger: 2x Khopesh (32 Str)

[Gol]

How about the 34 Str Dwarf hybrid (14/2) w/ dual Khopeshes? 18 + 4 levels + 6 item + 2 Ram's + 1 fighter enh + 3 reaver tome = 34

[paul1devries]

Ok - i am a bit of a rookie, but why does the bloodstone add 18 damage to a crit? I thought they only added a better chance to confirm a crit....?

Redleaf

[EinarMal]

Ok - i am a bit of a rookie, but why does the bloodstone add 18 damage to a crit? I thought they only added a better chance to confirm a crit....?

Redleaf

That was changed in a previous mod. Fighter enhancements and the power critical feat only increase the chance to confirm, a seeker item (like bloodstone) gets added to damage on the critical and is multiplied by the weapons critical multiplier. So, seeker items are great for something like a khopesh user who crits often and has a x3 multiplier.

[Turial]

Ok - i am a bit of a rookie, but why does the bloodstone add 18 damage to a crit? I thought they only added a better chance to confirm a crit....?

Redleaf

They changed seeker effects on items around mod 4 ish I think so that the seeker effect also added damage on a critical hit. So simply take the +6 seeker of the stone and multiply it by the critical muliply factor. Kopeshes give 3x so 18 damage. It was a nice change to an item and add-on that overwise really didn't see much use.

[paul1devries]

Holy #$Fx! I always thought they were pretty much useless as i almost always hit - in which case it seemed useless to add an item to confirm something that was going to be confirmed anyway.

Wow, i guess i will start farming a high seeker item now instead of selling them all the time...

Thanks for the heads up...

Redleaf

[EinarMal]

Holy #$Fx! I always thought they were pretty much useless as i almost always hit - in which case it seemed useless to add an item to confirm something that was going to be confirmed anyway.

Wow, i guess i will start farming a high seeker item now instead of selling them all the time...

Thanks for the heads up...

Redleaf

Yes, not only that but a seeker +10 weapon in the offhand applies to both weapons while TWF, so you only need to ever equip one seeker weapon. So, if you can't find a bloodstone, using an offhand seeker item can often result in more DPS than other mods.

[Illuminati]

Yes, not only that but a seeker +10 weapon in the offhand applies to both weapons while TWF, so you only need to ever equip one seeker weapon. So, if you can't find a bloodstone, using an offhand seeker item can often result in more DPS than other mods.

I have a +2 Seeker +6 of Khopesh of Maiming (Human only) on my Barb build, its awesome with a +3 burst in main hand.

Anyway, I can't in good conscious add a +3 tome to dmg calcs. Iv'e never seen one myself, only +2's and I have been playing since day 1.

[sigtrent]

Yes, not only that but a seeker +10 weapon in the offhand applies to both weapons while TWF, so you only need to ever equip one seeker weapon. So, if you can't find a bloodstone, using an offhand seeker item can often result in more DPS than other mods.

Yep, my main runs an off hand seeker 10 pick and main hands a kopesh and it upped my DPS tramendously over running a straight up dps weapon in my off hand (unless of course you can't crit what you are fighting) I only have normal TWF though so I'm not taking many off hand swings and I have yet to pull a bloodstone.

[Illuminati]

I've been seeing alot of nice Seeker +6 of Pure Good stuff, which in the offhand is pretty nice as well. They are usually in the +1 - +4 range though


Yep, my main runs an off hand seeker 10 pick and main hands a kopesh and it upped my DPS tramendously over running a straight up dps weapon in my off hand (unless of course you can't crit what you are fighting) I only have normal TWF though so I'm not taking many off hand swings and I have yet to pull a bloodstone.

[Vra]

I was using holy burst kukri in my ofhand on my ranger, then for fun I put on a seeker 10 kukri instead, wooop - now my khopeshe do some real crit damg.

I ran it through a damg calculator and it upped my dps a great deal actually, so might be worth when mobs can be crittet

[Vandos]

2 problems with this build, no eq slot for a +6 con item and at present you cant use 2 greensteel weapons or greenweave items.

[Illuminati]

2 problems with this build, no eq slot for a +6 con item and at present you cant use 2 greensteel weapons or greenweave items.

Actually you can use two greensteel weapons without a penalty. Only the items you can't wear two of. The glove/goggles slots are semi open.

[Gol]

Anyway, I can't in good conscious add a +3 tome to dmg calcs. Iv'e never seen one myself, only +2's and I have been playing since day 1.I can't in good conscious plan a build incapable of capitalizing on one.

[Illuminati]

+3 Tome?

No need to include them if you are posting a build. People can figure it out on their own.

[Gol]

+3 Tome?

No need to include them if you are posting a build. People can figure it out on their own.
A normal build, sure. One that claims to be "MAX"? Include it in the calcs, at least, that way it's more obvious that this build isn't "MAX" TWF Pure-Ranger DPS.

[Yaga_Nub]

2 problems with this build, no eq slot for a +6 con item and at present you cant use 2 greensteel weapons or greenweave items.

You can use two greensteel weapons just fine.