Rerolling: The Penitent Rogue. 32pts

[Rameses]

I am planning a reroll if and only if we are granted another +50% experience event. Yes, I am lazy. :p
My original Penitent Rogue ( http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=119788) was a 28pt character and while very effective in game the character is extremely raid loot intensive.
I've always wanted to make some changes so here is my "What if..." or "Looking back, this is what "I" would have done differently..."

Name: The Penitent Rogue.
Race: Halfling
Class: 15 Rogue / 1 Cleric
Alignment: Chaotic Good

Level Progression
1-2 Rogue
3 Cleric
4-16 Rogue

Hit Points: 240 (98 Base, +20 Heroic Durability, +64 Stat, +18 Toughtness(minos legens) , +30 GFL, +10 Draconic Vitality)
Spell Points: 170 (with Stat on.)

Saves @ level 16 (fully self-buffed)
Fort: 22
Reflex: 29
Will: 25

Base Attack Bonus: 11 / 11 / 16 / 21
Base Attack Bonus: 22 / 22 / 27 / 30 (Modified by Dex and Racial Bonuses. Excludes Weapon "to Hit" bonus)

Armor Class @ level 16
Base: 10
Dex: +6 (Max Dex. And I refuse to wear a Dress.)
Armor: 9 (+5 Mithral Chain Shirt)
Shield: +7 (+5 Mithral Heavy Shield)
Deflection: +5
Size: +1
Head of Good Fortune: +2
Misc: +4
Natural: +3
Dodge: +1
Self Buffed AC: 48


Stats @ level 1 with +1 tomes
Str 14 (13 Base , +1 tome)
Dex 17 (16 Base , +1 tome)
Con 12 (11 Base , +1 tome)
Int 15 (14 Base , +1 tome)
Wis 10 (9 Base , +1 tome)
Cha 16 (15 Base , +1 tome)

Stats @ level 16 with +1 tomes, +6 items, Enhancements, Level Increases
Str 20 (13 Base , +1 tome, +6 item)
Dex 30 (16 Base , +1 tome, +6 item, +5 Enhancements, +2 Level Increases)
Con 18 (11 Base , +1 tome, +6 item)
Int 22 (14 Base , +2 tome, +6 item) *item usage: situational*
Wis 16 (9 Base , +1 tome, +6 item) *item usage: situational*
Cha 25 (15 Base , +2 tome, +6 item, +2 Level Increases) *item usage: always*

Skills @ level 16
Diplomacy 44 (18 Ranks, +6 Stat, +15 item, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH)
Disable Device 53 (19 Ranks, +6 Stat, +15 item, +1 Enhancement, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH, +7 Tools)
Haggle 45 (19 Ranks, +6 Stat, +15 item, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH)
Hide 46 (17 Ranks, +10 Stat, +10 item, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH, +4 Racial)
Jump 43 (16 Ranks, +5 Stat, +15 item, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH, +2 Racial)
Move Silently 44 (17 Ranks, +10 Stat, +10 item, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH, +2 Racial)
Open Lock 57 (19 Ranks, +10 Stat, +15 item, +1 Enhancement, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH, +7 Tools)
Search 49 (19 Ranks, +6 Stat, +15 item, +4 Enhancement, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH)
Spot 46 (19 Ranks, +4 Stat, +15 item, +3 Enhancement, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH) *item usage: situational*
Use Magic Device 37 (19 Ranks, +7 Stat, +3 Golden Cartouche, +1 Skill Mastery, +4 GH, +3 SF: UMD)

Feats @ level 16 *not in order as aquired*
Dodge (may switch out for Two Weapon Fighting)
Force of Personality
Improved Crit: Piercing
Skill Focus: UMD (thanks Rictor)
Weapon Finesse
Die Hard
Inproved Evasion
Skill Mastery

Enhancements @ level 16 (always playing with these, so don't take them to heart..)
Rogue Dex III
Halfling Dex II
Rogue Subtle Backstab IV
Rogue Faster Sneaking IV
Cleric Divine Vitality I
Cleric Extra Turning I
Halfling Luck: Fort II
Halfling Luck: Reflex I
Halfling Luck: Will II
Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Rogue Disable Device I
Rogue Search II
Rogue Spot II



Also please understand, I am not trying to make the Uber Min/Max Character. I am just making changes to a pre-existing character through a Re-Roll.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3923/ramisescharactersheetvx8.jpg

I am, Rameses!

[Impaqt]

How do you get 160 HP's from an 18 CON? Shouldnt that be more like 64?

I count a 14 Base on Will save.. 5 Rogue +2 Cleric +6 CHR(FoP)+1 Halfling Wheres the otehr 3 come from?

You'll Have another ROgue Special Ability at L14.

[Shamguard]

If your not going to give up the armor at higher levels why are you boosting your dex so much?

You might want to look at shifting some of the dex points to int, for extra skill points and better search and disable device.
Your dex based skills are well over anything that is needed, so the ony hit would be a -1 to your attack bonus.

You could also give up some str to boost your int. Shifting one point of str to int will only cost you a -1 to damage, but you can make this up when you get your 1750 favor tome.
(The more I think about it I like giving up a point of str better than giving up a point of dex.)

I'm just don't like to see and odd int because you are getting nothing from that extra point. Since both search and disable device are int based skills you are losing out on an extra point to both with an odd int.

You did seem to give yourself an extra 96 hits points from con. (did you originaly plan a 20 level build and not change it for a 16 level build?)

Your disable device and search are both a little soft for the high end content, you may want to see if you can work the skill action boost into your enhancements. Maybe give up some of the search enhancement to buy the action boost, you can get a better bonus vs APs used. (Yes, I've become an skill action boost convert.)
For as much as you seem to rely on GH I'm surprised you don't have the skill action boost.

Overall not a bad little build.
If you are going to splash a level of something on a rogue a level of cleric is not a bad choice.

As far as waiting for a bonus weekend, why?
I rerolled Shamgard because I was tired of having my main character level capped for so long.
There is enough xp and favor in the game now even without a bonus weekend it took me less than six weeks to get back to the level cap. This was also durring the Holidays when I had less time to play than normal. I even tried to get as much favor as I could at level so it wasn't such a grind to get the 1750, though with all the extra stuff now it was much easier to get 1750 than it was the first time.
The only thing I don't like about the reroll is now Shamgard is not the first charcter on my login screen, but he is still my main character.

Whatever you do have fun, this is a game after all.
Remember drow may make better rogues, but Halflings ARE Rogues.


...

[Rameses]

How do you get 160 HP's from an 18 CON? Shouldnt that be more like 64?

I count a 14 Base on Will save.. 5 Rogue +2 Cleric +6 CHR(FoP)+1 Halfling Wheres the otehr 3 come from?

You'll Have another ROgue Special Ability at L14.

Good catch on the CON and Will, not sure what I was thinking. It was late when I posted this.


I am, Rameses!

[Rameses]

If your not going to give up the armor at higher levels why are you boosting your dex so much?

You might want to look at shifting some of the dex points to int, for extra skill points and better search and disable device.
Your dex based skills are well over anything that is needed, so the ony hit would be a -1 to your attack bonus.

I am going for the "to Hit" bonus. I know, I know +1 "to Hit" doesn't make that big of a differnce. But if that were true; why do so many melee types take the Weapon Focus feat?


You could also give up some str to boost your int. Shifting one point of str to int will only cost you a -1 to damage, but you can make this up when you get your 1750 favor tome.
(The more I think about it I like giving up a point of str better than giving up a point of dex.)

I'm just don't like to see and odd int because you are getting nothing from that extra point. Since both search and disable device are int based skills you are losing out on an extra point to both with an odd int.

Your disable device and search are both a little soft for the high end content, you may want to see if you can work the skill action boost into your enhancements. Maybe give up some of the search enhancement to buy the action boost, you can get a better bonus vs APs used. (Yes, I've become an skill action boost convert.)
For as much as you seem to rely on GH I'm surprised you don't have the skill action boost.

Meh, I don't know for sure. As far skill points go the character gets by well enuff. Plus, I do have the RAB: Skill 1 in my enhancments (I hope) but that will be used for buffing/scrolls mainly. I don't consider Action Boosts as a Static Buff. Sorry.
My original build runs with a 19 Int without an item on all the time. Since I rarely to almost never have to put the item on, I figured what the H.E.Double Hockey Sticks. I'll go this way and see what happens.


You did seem to give yourself an extra 96 hits points from con. (did you originaly plan a 20 level build and not change it for a 16 level build?)

No, just late and had sleep induced dellusions.


Overall not a bad little build.
If you are going to splash a level of something on a rogue a level of cleric is not a bad choice.

Thanks, and absolutely! My Orginal Penitent Rogue build was built the same way and I can't tell you how nice it was to have Wand usage at lower levels without having to make a UMD check and the DV's are always handy. Specially in these "I'll just recall for SP" days.


As far as waiting for a bonus weekend, why?
I rerolled Shamgard because I was tired of having my main character level capped for so long.
There is enough xp and favor in the game now even without a bonus weekend it took me less than six weeks to get back to the level cap. This was also durring the Holidays when I had less time to play than normal. I even tried to get as much favor as I could at level so it wasn't such a grind to get the 1750, though with all the extra stuff now it was much easier to get 1750 than it was the first time.
The only thing I don't like about the reroll is now Shamgard is not the first charcter on my login screen, but he is still my main character.

Why wait for a Bonus weekend? I DO NOT WANT TO ROLL ANOTHER CHARACTER! :D
I want to be able to blast to level 10-12 in a Day then run with Guildies to hit the upper levels.
Plus, while yes I'm rerolling my original build. I am still keeping my original build as a mule and Favor Wh0re. I won't be investing much time into favor with this character unless it happens by accident I don't foresee this build ever making 1750 favor. Which for all intents and purposes is fine by me.


Whatever you do have fun, this is a game after all.
Remember drow may make better rogues, but Halflings ARE Rogues.
...

Indeed... to Quote you Sham... It's the player not Build... but this is really gonna be a fun build. :D


I am, Rameses!

[Rameses]

On Wearing Dresses. I just can't bring myself to do it. I understand the possiblilties if I did wear a Dress. I just can't, now if Turbine would impliment clothing like they did in Lotro: indeed I would.

I am, Rameses!

[Cap_Man]

On Wearing Dresses. I just can bring myself to do it. I understand the possiblilties if I did wear a Dress. I just can't, now if Turbine would impliment clothing like they in Lotro: indeed I would.

I am, Rameses!

lol, I'm with you there. Just can't bring my self to do it. :D

A rogue in a dress is just .... wrong!

[Hvymetal]

On Wearing Dresses. I just can bring myself to do it. I understand the possiblilties if I did wear a Dress. I just can't, now if Turbine would impliment clothing like they in Lotro: indeed I would.

I am, Rameses!Agreed

[Shamguard]

I am going for the "to Hit" bonus. I know, I know +1 "to Hit" doesn't make that big of a differnce. But if that were true; why do so many melee types take the Weapon Focus feat?[quote]

I saw that and that's why I suggested the str point trade instead.


[quote=Rameses;1565049]Meh, I don't know for sure. As far skill points go the character gets by well enuff. Plus, I do have the RAB: Skill 1 in my enhancments (I hope) but that will be used for buffing/scrolls mainly. I don't consider Action Boosts as a Static Buff. Sorry.[quote]

Since search isn't a static skill it's a good use of RAB if you need the extra skill points, and since you already plan Search IV if you go Search II and Skill Boost III your ahead by another +2 for the cost of 1 less AP. (Just something to look at) If your quick the Action boost can last long enough to help with the disable device too,:)

[quote=Rameses;1565049]My original build runs with a 19 Int without an item on all the time. Since I rarely to almost never have to put the item on, I figured what the H.E.Double Hockey Sticks. I'll go this way and see what happens.


I'm just a fan of high int rogues. I like have some of the odd skills so I always look for ways to squeeze some extra skill points, it's just my PnP style creeping in I guess, go with what works for you.



No, just late and had sleep induced dellusions.


Been there.:)


Why wait for a Bonus weekend? I DO NOT WANT TO ROLL ANOTHER CHARACTER! :D
I want to be able to blast to level 10-12 in a Day then run with Guildies to hit the upper levels.
Plus, while yes I'm rerolling my original build. I am still keeping my original build as a mule and Favor Wh0re. I won't be investing much time into favor with this character unless it happens by accident I don't foresee this build ever making 1750 favor. Which for all intents and purposes is fine by me.

So, this will be Ramesesjr?:)

On the favor I found that since I was doing as many quests as I could just once on elite, by the time I was near level cap I had ove 1600 favor and I was able to solo or duo most of the last 100-150 with very little effort. (Just something to keep in mind, that the free +2 tome may not be as much of a grind as it once was)
I hate to rerun quests even at different difficulty levels, so I sneaked in to every elite quest I could while I leveled up.:)

The only problem is now that the level cap is 16 I have a feeling the upper end of the dead zone may creep to level 13 very soon. So you may find that 10-12 is not as sweet as it was before Mod 6. With so much xp in the new stuff and no xp death penalty, characters are blasting to level 16 very quickly.
Though they can carry you through some of the adventure zones and get you boat loads of xp and loot.:D

It's getting to the point soon there will be so much favor in the game everyone will be able to hit 1750 with little to no effort.

Just a few more of my thoughs, just remember free advice is usualy worth what you pay for it.:)

...

[Aeneas]

I thought melees only took weapon focus so they could take weapon specialization - isn't it a prereq?

[Kiranselie]

Be prepared to farm, and farm, and farm those dang gloves from the titan. Ive been in there 16 times on my rogue, 10 on my caster, and have yet to see them drop. Not just drop for me, just drop period. On a positive note, only 2 more weeks till i get shafted in my end rewards and start the grind again :)


Edit* Well 20 came and went and guess what, no gloves. So ram, if your looking to run titan, hit me up, every wednesday and sunday until i get these dang things.

[Rameses]

Be prepared to farm, and farm, and farm those dang gloves from the titan. Ive been in there 16 times on my rogue, 10 on my caster, and have yet to see them drop. Not just drop for me, just drop period. On a positive note, only 2 more weeks till i get shafted in my end rewards and start the grind again :)

LOL I know. On my original 28pt build I pulled the Seven Fingered Gloves on the first run.
It's a fun raid and I know that it can be short manned and the crew I run with wouldn't mind helping I am sure. And by short man the raid I am more looking at 20 completions.

Just a thought.

I am, Rameses!

[mcik17]

Ramz, U should just roll a Bard with 2 levs of rogue for the evasion. U always say im not that kind of Rogue!!!! U could self buff better and longer, Heal better,still use those W/P well. U would lose a DPS fromnot having ur sneek attacks..but who needs sneek attacks with 2 W/P! I also know how much u love bards so this just seems natural for u. Welcome back Ramz!!!!

[Aspenor]

Ramz, U should just roll a Bard with 2 levs of rogue for the evasion. U always say im not that kind of Rogue!!!! U could self buff better and longer, Heal better,still use those W/P well. U would lose a DPS fromnot having ur sneek attacks..but who needs sneek attacks with 2 W/P! I also know how much u love bards so this just seems natural for u. Welcome back Ramz!!!!

Bards???

ZOMG....

Rameses is about to go ballistic on you.

/cues the bard hate

[mcik17]

Not HATE.....Its called Jelousy!!!!!!

[Rameses]

Ramz, U should just roll a Bard with 2 levs of rogue for the evasion. U always say im not that kind of Rogue!!!! U could self buff better and longer, Heal better,still use those W/P well. U would lose a DPS fromnot having ur sneek attacks..but who needs sneek attacks with 2 W/P! I also know how much u love bards so this just seems natural for u. Welcome back Ramz!!!!

I've said this once, and I'll say it a again.


The only good bard. Is a dead Bard. Ewwww... I bet that little ditty of a song isn't helping you now, is it Mr. Bard

I am, Rameses!

[Rameses]

By the God's I am way too impatient to wait for a 50% xp weekend!

I rolled this character (last Wednesday?) and am at level 9 (ok, 1000 xp from 9) at the moment.
I can't tell you how much I am enjoying this character, comparatively (?spelling) speaking to the original that is.

A few changes that I made are as follows...

Last two +1 attribute modifiers will be going to CHA instead of Dex.


aquired a +2 CHA Tome. (I know! This gives me an odd Number to CHA, but it sets up the next Attribute Modifier as level caps increase.)

aquired a +2 INT Tome.

And pretty much have everything I need to make the Upgraded version of Green Steel Goggles with +3-6 to CHA based skills (well, I think that is how they work?) With exception of the bound power items

This 32pt build far out performs my orginal 28pt build at this level... I can't wait to see what it will be like at level 16~!~!

I am, Rameses!

[Aeneas]

I don't know what you did to deserve it, but i believe this weeks WDA was written expressly for you, sir.

[Rameses]

I don't know what you did to deserve it, but i believe this weeks WDA was written expressly for you, sir.

Hmmm, I don't know which part you'd be referring to. Please, enlighten me.

[Aspenor]

Hmmm, I don't know which part you'd be referring to. Please, enlighten me.



New Enhancements
NEW Halfling Cunning IV[LIST]
Cost: 4 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 14 Halfling, Halfling Cunning III, 48 action points spent.
Benefit: You gain an additional +1 bonus to attack rolls when flanking an enemy, bringing the total increase to 4.
NEW Halfling Guile I
Cost: 1 Action Point
Prereqs: Level 3 Halfling, Halfling Cunning I, 7 action points spent.
Benefit: You gain +2 to your sneak attack damage and +1 to bluff.
NEW Halfling Guile II
Cost: 2 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 7 Halfling, Halfling Cunning II, Halfling Guile I, 22 action points spent.
Benefit: You gain an additional +2 to your sneak attack damage, bringing the total increase to 4, and an additional +1 to bluff, bringing the total increase to 2.
NEW Halfling Guile III
Cost: 3 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 11 Halfling, Halfling Cunning III, Halfling Guile II, 37 action points spent.
Benefit: You gain an additional +2 to your sneak attack damage, bringing the total increase to 6, and an additional +1 to bluff, bringing the total increase to 3.
NEW Halfling Guile IV
Cost: 4 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 15 Halfling, Halfling Cunning IV, Halfling Guile III, 52 action points spent.
Benefit: You gain an additional +2 to your sneak attack damage, bringing the total increase to 8, and an additional +1 to bluff, bringing the total increase to 4.

This

[Rameses]

This

I don't know if that is something I'd be willing to spend Enhanements on.

[Aeneas]

well not the halfling cunning 4 so much, but if you decided to damage focus your rogue you could crank out an extra 20 or 30 per backstab with enhancements alone.

[Aspenor]

I don't know if that is something I'd be willing to spend Enhanements on.

/shrug

Just bringing it to your attention bro.

[Rameses]

well not the halfling cunning 4 so much, but if you decided to damage focus your rogue you could crank out an extra 20 or 30 per backstab with enhancements alone.

true, but there is such a thing as "TOO MUCH" damage as a Rogue.


/shrug

Just bringing it to your attention bro.

You know I appreciate the wisdom.

I am, Rameses!

[Shamguard]

By the God's I am way too impatient to wait for a 50% xp weekend!

I rolled this character (last Wednesday?) and am at level 9 (ok, 1000 xp from 9) at the moment.
I can't tell you how much I am enjoying this character, comparatively (?spelling) speaking to the original that is.

ROTFLMAO:D

Some how I just knew you wouldn't wait.:p

so did you name him RamesesII or RamesesJr?

[Rameses]

ROTFLMAO:D

Some how I just knew you wouldn't wait.:p

so did you name him RamesesII or RamesesJr?


Shudder the thought....

I am, Ramises!

[Aeneas]

Nah, just go double treasons and max out the subtle backstabbing :D

[Rameses]

Nah, just go double treasons and max out the subtle backstabbing :D


Hello McFly... (couldn't resist, just watched it last night)

I am trying to post a Build that doesn't rely on lots of Raid Loot.

I am, Rameses!

[Tallyn]

You may not want to max out both lines, HOWEVER, it will let you get to +8 with much less cost of AP.

To max out the Rogue line by itself would take 10 AP for +8 to damage on sneak attacks.

To get to +8 damage as a Halfling Rogue would cost you 6 AP... a savings of 4 AP, which can be significant.

[Rameses]

You may not want to max out both lines, HOWEVER, it will let you get to +8 with much less cost of AP.

To max out the Rogue line by itself would take 10 AP for +8 to damage on sneak attacks.

To get to +8 damage as a Halfling Rogue would cost you 6 AP... a savings of 4 AP, which can be significant.

Correct. But either way I will not be investing into these enhancements.

[Yaga_Nub]

Hello McFly... (couldn't resist, just watched it last night)

I am trying to post a Build that doesn't rely on lots of Raid Loot.

I am, Rameses!

Ram, treason drops like every other SR run and no one takes them so you'll have 10 of them before you hit your 20th.

And then as an end reward for your 20th there will be 3 in the list (and yes I know that's impossible but.... he is, Rameses! right?)

[Rameses]

Ram, treason drops like every other SR run and no one takes them so you'll have 10 of them before you hit your 20th.

And then as an end reward for your 20th there will be 3 in the list (and yes I know that's impossible but.... he is, Rameses! right?)

I understand that the treason drops like crazy, the point I am trying to make is that it is VERY possible to play a character and be extremely effective in game without relying on Raid Loot (no matter how common.)

and yes...

I am, Rameses!

[Rameses]

Character update...

Just hit level 13 last night... fun times. While PuGing I've met some great people and even some good players.

I ran my first Titan run, big thanks to the Stormbringers crew for letting get in on a Free Ride (for once I didn't have to do a dang thing.)
And no I didn't get my Seven Fingered Gloves (good thing too, Beaufry told me he'd go postal on everyone if I did get them on my first run.)

It's cool though, I got everything I need (I believe) with the exception of the power to make the goggles once I get shroud ready.
And yes. I am fixated on getting my UMD as high as possible. :D

I am, Rameses!

[Philam]

Hey Ramses enjoyed running the Crucible(2) and pre quest for Titan. Great leadership. Thank you!

P.S. This is Phaith your friendly pyro caster

[CSFurious]

you are at level 13 in less than 2 weeks

me thinks you are going to get lots of raid loot (are you going to stop running raids or refuse to take the raid loot?)

i understand that you wanted your build to stand on its own, but you are going to get lots of raid loot as this is your main

peace


Hello McFly... (couldn't resist, just watched it last night)

I am trying to post a Build that doesn't rely on lots of Raid Loot.

I am, Rameses!

[Rameses]

Hey Ramses enjoyed running the Crucible(2) and pre quest for Titan. Great leadership. Thank you!

P.S. This is Phaith your friendly pyro caster

Hey hey! thanks for the kind words...

[Rameses]

you are at level 13 in less than 2 weeks

me thinks you are going to get lots of raid loot (are you going to stop running raids or refuse to take the raid loot?)

i understand that you wanted your build to stand on its own, but you are going to get lots of raid loot as this is your main

peace

lol Indeed!

Nah, I wont be turning down raid loot. But if I start posting a build that requires lots and lots of raid loot it defeats the purpose of posting a build in the first place...
I wouldn't really be posting a build that would be accessable to the average player.

I know, I know. I am going for the goggles. But this crafting compared raid farming. (no difference really)


-Rameses!

[Kiranselie]

I for one am dang glad you didnt pull those gloves last night, its bad enough that merricka goes on every raid w/ me, and then out rolls me on every item i want, but last night there were three other umd'ers in the group besides myself. I would have probably reached through the connection and strangled you if you pulled them on your first run. As it stands, 39 total titan runs and ive still yet to see anyone pull those gloves, much less me. Well, come sunday ill be hitting the old number 20 on my rogue. Either i get them then, or i throw my hands up in disgust and never run it again (for at least a week, its still hands down my favorite quest).

[Hvymetal]

Well finally got to meet Rameses (or should I say Ramises?), ran with ya on Ghola Elite on my WF Wiz Sihdhartha, good run very impressive Rogue.

[Rameses]

Well finally got to meet Rameses (or should I say Ramises?), ran with ya on Ghola Elite on my WF Wiz Sihdhartha, good run very impressive Rogue.

Thank you sir. I was more amazed though that I was running with a Caster that actually helped the party by buffing and doing some carnage...

Usally the standard PuG caster doesn't help the party in anyway other than trying get the highest kill count. Team players, gotta love em. :D


I am, Rameses!

[Rameses]

If anyone is paying attention and cares... :D

I just hit level 14 today (13 Rogue / 1 Cleric)
I've set certain benchmarks (or watermarks) that I wish to acomplish (?spelling)

to date
I've ran 3 raids. (Reaver, Dragon and Titan) yes, I did get the Head of Good Fortune on my first try. (Luck be a Lady)

Without raid loot I have the characters UMD to a 36 (37 with the Head of Good Fortune.) Which means my expectations for this character far exceeds that of the original build: which had a 37 UMD using both the Seven Fingered Gloves and the Head of Good Fortune.

I've run the character through all the new quests on elite at level 13 and was able to find and disable the traps. now Spoting them was a completely different story, and i still say that the trap that killed me wasn't there. :D

ok well it's not much to update, man has it been a blast leveling this character... I can't wait to see what level 16 is gonna bring!

I am, Rameses!

[Hvymetal]

Thank you sir. I was more amazed though that I was running with a Caster that actually helped the party by buffing and doing some carnage...

Usally the standard PuG caster doesn't help the party in anyway other than trying get the highest kill count. Team players, gotta love em. :D


I am, Rameses!It comes from playing a Rogue as my main, get used to trying to help out however you can;)

[Ricter]

You have Skill Focus: UMD listed under your UMD bonuses, but don't have the feat listed in your feat section. You also have only improved evasion as a rogue special feat, but should have two I believe (10 and 13 rogue, if I'm not mistaken).

A few questions for you about potential builds, but first background. I currently run a rogue x / fighter 1, but I don't really appreciate the bland flavor of the build, especially because my UMD is on the lower side. I've been looking at a few different builds, at least partially inspired by your own, which is why I'm asking them here instead of in a separate thread.

Human Rogue 14 / Cleric 1 / Wizard 1

pros:
Can use any wand or scroll in the game (doesn't need UMD nearly as high, frees a large amount of skill points)
Quite a few more spell points
Handful of low level spell buffs (obviously diminish in value over time)
Human Versatility / Human abilities
+1 Will Save
+1 Metamagic Feat


cons:
Loss of halfling bonuses
-2 HP
-1 BAB
-1 Fort Save
-1d6 SA
-6 skill points

Halfling Rogue 13 / Paladin 2 / Cleric 1
I've seen this discussed elsewhere, but only with the level cap at 14. What are your thoughts on it now?

Human Rogue 13 / Ranger 2 / Cleric 1

pros:
bow strength
twf for free
proficiencies
+2 hit points
+favored enemy
+1 fort save
+1 refl save

cons:
-1d6 SA
-1 will save
-2 skill points
close to a bread and butter build (rogue 14 / ranger 2)

Finally, I've also been looking at your build, but I don't really like halflings. How viable would it be with a Drow or a Human instead? Also, how critical is the feat selection? I was probably going to swap quite a few of them out.

[Rameses]

You have Skill Focus: UMD listed under your UMD bonuses, but don't have the feat listed in your feat section. You also have only improved evasion as a rogue special feat, but should have two I believe (10 and 13 rogue, if I'm not mistaken).

A few questions for you about potential builds, but first background. I currently run a rogue x / fighter 1, but I don't really appreciate the bland flavor of the build, especially because my UMD is on the lower side. I've been looking at a few different builds, at least partially inspired by your own, which is why I'm asking them here instead of in a separate thread.
Good Catch! As many times as I've reread and proof read the original post, I am amazed I missed that.


Human Rogue 14 / Cleric 1 / Wizard 1

pros:
Can use any wand or scroll in the game (doesn't need UMD nearly as high, frees a large amount of skill points)
Quite a few more spell points
Handful of low level spell buffs (obviously diminish in value over time)
Human Versatility / Human abilities
+1 Will Save
+1 Metamagic Feat


cons:
Loss of halfling bonuses
-2 HP
-1 BAB
-1 Fort Save
-1d6 SA
-6 skill points
What do you truely gain from the caster level?
In the case of the Cleric level you gain Divine wand usage and DV's. Though the spell points are only used as clickies of remove fear and bless (for those fools that constantly fails against Bane in Deleras.)
From caster levels all you are gaining?
With your UMD at high levels you'll be able to use any Arcane Scroll possible and you're spells will be negated because they won't be used for much of anything.


Halfling Rogue 13 / Paladin 2 / Cleric 1
I've seen this discussed elsewhere, but only with the level cap at 14. What are your thoughts on it now?

Human Rogue 13 / Ranger 2 / Cleric 1

pros:
bow strength
twf for free
proficiencies
+2 hit points
+favored enemy
+1 fort save
+1 refl save

cons:
-1d6 SA
-1 will save
-2 skill points
close to a bread and butter build (rogue 14 / ranger 2)
Honestly, if your gonna take the paladin levels you're better off taking 3 levels of paladin for the CHA to your saves. though you gain that from Force Of Personality.


Finally, I've also been looking at your build, but I don't really like halflings. How viable would it be with a Drow or a Human instead? Also, how critical is the feat selection? I was probably going to swap quite a few of them out.
I am partial to Halflings. It's really up to you what race you play. Every race can bring something new to this builds "table." I have a friend that just rolled a warforged version, I am excited to see how it turns out.

[Ricter]

Good Catch! As many times as I've reread and proof read the original post, I am amazed I missed that.

Quite understandable. I always appreciate a look over my builds, so I figured I could return the favor, especially if I'm going to attempt to build off of your ideas.


What do you truely gain from the caster level?
In the case of the Cleric level you gain Divine wand usage and DV's. Though the spell points are only used as clickies of remove fear and bless (for those fools that constantly fails against Bane in Deleras.)
From caster levels all you are gaining?
With your UMD at high levels you'll be able to use any Arcane Scroll possible and you're spells will be negated because they won't be used for much of anything.

Arcane wand usage, extra buff spells. It'd be more useful at lower levels, before you have the clickies / potions to provide all the various buffs. I wasn't thinking of using aggressive spells, the saves would likely be far too low. The idea kind of spawned from how poor of a UMD check my current rogue has.


Honestly, if your gonna take the paladin levels you're better off taking 3 levels of paladin for the CHA to your saves. though you gain that from Force Of Personality.

Oh, I thought you got it at Paladin 2. My bad. That might make it not worth it then... hmmm...


I am partial to Halflings. It's really up to you what race you play. Every race can bring something new to this builds "table." I have a friend that just rolled a warforged version, I am excited to see how it turns out.

Mkay, that's what I thought. I'm personally a big fan of human versatility on top of the bonus feat.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Aspenor]

You only need 2 levels of paladin for charisma bonus to saves. 3rd level is disease and fear immunity.

[Aesop]

I understand that the treason drops like crazy, the point I am trying to make is that it is VERY possible to play a character and be extremely effective in game without relying on Raid Loot (no matter how common.)

and yes...

I am, Rameses!

Just so you know Rameses...My main Lionne Has ZERO Raid loot... I just am unlucky ad don't raid ... I've been in 2 of the Raids... Killed the DQ 3 times and haven't completed the Shroud yet. I would like those freakin gloves from the Titan though :D

Aesop

[wiglin]

You only need 2 levels of paladin for charisma bonus to saves. 3rd level is disease and fear immunity.

And the 3rd level is really worth it for those immunities. Greater Heroism grants fear immunity and Disease is easily removed via wand or potion.

Although you could get 1 more LOH for what? 72ish and +1 more to saves via enhancements. Still not worth it though.

[Rameses]

well there you go Ricter. I stand corrected, Paladin level 2 gived the Cha saves.

[MrWizard]

i was wondering what the cleric does for you.
I see you using umd and the 1 level cleric will not do much.

what about paladin or ranger since they can wand whip too? or bard so the umd can still be added too and wand whipping allowed?

I ask because I am not too up on the multi rogue yet...

[Rameses]

i was wondering what the cleric does for you.
I see you using umd and the 1 level cleric will not do much.

what about paladin or ranger since they can wand whip too? or bard so the umd can still be added too and wand whipping allowed?

I ask because I am not too up on the multi rogue yet...

taking the level of cleric at 3rd unlocks all divine wand usage. (invaluable while leveling.)
plus gives you DV's.
In raids DV's can be critical.
In normal quests, I use them to bribe buffs out of selfish pain the arse Casters.

Self-buffing is nice but it's spendy.

[wiglin]

i was wondering what the cleric does for you.
I see you using umd and the 1 level cleric will not do much.

what about paladin or ranger since they can wand whip too? or bard so the umd can still be added too and wand whipping allowed?

I ask because I am not too up on the multi rogue yet...

DV's mainly, up to 242 sp from 1 level of cleric. It adds synergy to the cha that you take for umd. You also get divine favor to help make up for the loss of 1 attack. You could also add two levels of paladin though so you can use force of personality for something else, like increasing the 2wf line.

[Ricter]

DV's mainly, up to 242 sp from 1 level of cleric. It adds synergy to the cha that you take for umd. You also get divine favor to help make up for the loss of 1 attack. You could also add two levels of paladin though so you can use force of personality for something else, like increasing the 2wf line.

I think that's something I might try out when I reroll then. I like the flavor at least, and it seems like a workable build.

[Ricter]

A couple other things. You're still giving yourself the benefit of the toughness feat, even though you no longer have it. Also, you may want to expand the math for your saves. They seem lower than they should be, but I can't tell what you added together for base. I assume the actual base + stat bonus? Also, I think you cheat yourself 2 points to disable device from enhancements. You say you have rank III, but only give yourself +1.

Removed by request.

[Aspenor]

A couple other things. You're still giving yourself the benefit of the toughness feat, even though you no longer have it. Also, you may want to expand the math for your saves. They seem lower than they should be, but I can't tell what you added together for base. I assume the actual base + stat bonus?

I'm also running the numbers on rogue 13 / paladin 2 / cleric 1. I'll get those up when I can.

He may or may not be counting the Minos Legens??? Let me double check.

Yeah, I'm not sure...I assume the Toughness feat hit points come from the Minos Legens.

[Rameses]

He may or may not be counting the Minos Legens??? Let me double check.

Yeah, I'm not sure...I assume the Toughness feat hit points come from the Minos Legens.

It does. I am too lazy at the moment to take it off.

[Ricter]

I added a big edit with a full build a few posts above, please check it out in case you skipped it over.

[Rameses]

I added a big edit with a full build a few posts above, please check it out in case you skipped it over.

I don't mind thoughts and suggestions. But please refrain from posting a build in a build.
I will not take the toughness out of the HP break down as it's a static HP buff.

[Ricter]

I don't mind thoughts and suggestions. But please refrain from posting a build in a build.
I will not take the toughness out of the HP break down as it's a static HP buff.

Fixed, and I got it the first time you said it. Didn't say that you have to remove it.

[alchilito]

I have personally seen this build in action and all I can say is that it is impressive to witness the multi-functionality of this rogue.

[GeneralDiomedes]

By the God's I am way too impatient to wait for a 50% xp weekend!


Just brew some extra strength coffee .. and play 50% faster!

[Rameses]

Just brew some extra strength coffee .. and play 50% faster!

hehe it's done already. the character is level 15 Rogue - 1 Cleric by far one of the funnest characters I've played in a long time.