What's with the WF racism?

[Thailand_Dan]

I am new to DDO, having played 2 months now. Searching the forum here has taught me a lot, but I still have tons of questions. In this time, I've tried different races (elf, halfling, WF, drow), and different character types (Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Bard). For many of my characters, as I start to rise in level, I get bored playing them, as they become too fragile. However, my highest toon is a Level 9, Warforged Fighter. This is a fun character to play. No worries of water-breathing, poison, or disease. Sure rust monsters hate them and WFs tend to be a bit slower than other characters, but I can deal with that.

However, on about half the higher level quests (Level 7+) that I have been on, the cleric and bard healers rarely are willing to heal me. If a sorcer is in the group, they almost never have the spell to repair (or so they say). After typing "heal please" three or four times in the chat window (sometimes without a heal), I usually stop fighting, and hang out in the back with the casters, until they will heal me. I understand WF tanks eat tons of spell points compared to the caster standing in the back that will refill half his HP bar from one heal, but the caster cannot tank in the front line.

On two or three occasions, I have left quests because the cleric simply ignored me. I always carry pots with me, but I think its wrong if I am the only front-line fighter, I am expected to take all the aggro, and I am supposed to heal myself.

Q1: Am I alone here in these observations and opinions?

Q2: Am I being unreasonable to insist on getting healed, even though this will eat up most of the healers SP?

[Hadrian]

Do you have healer's friend enhancements?

Are you wearing a shield?

If the answers to these two questions are yes, then you won't be sucking up more spell points than other people.

[Thailand_Dan]

Do you have healer's friend enhancements?

Are you wearing a shield?

If the answers to these two questions are yes, then you won't be sucking up more spell points than other people.

I have every damage reduction and increased heal effects feats I've been able to take (that I know of). I usually use two handed weapons in the higher level quests, only because my one handed weapons do so little damage to the big monsters. However, when I two hand, I use barkskin pots to raise my AC (unless they are being stingy with the heals). I recently bought a medium fort belt for 20K off the AH, which brings my fortitude to 100%. What else can I do?

[Ringos]

I wouldn't group with a Cleric that wouldn't heal me. Now being topped off at all times may be different. Have you tried asking Wizards to load repair before jumping in the quest? Don't expect too many casters other than Wizards to load repair for you though. Bringing along wands of repair and cure X would be appreciated too. Bringing along wands to help out would probably help quite a bit. As a Cleric, I wouldn't refuse to heal a WF, but some out there may be less tham enthused. Later on, when Clerics get the Heal spell, WF are much easier to handle.

Just some thoughts. Take care!

[Hadrian]

Shield of faith potions will add 3 more AC.

Other than that, you're in low level quests with new players who do not understand that you're taking less damage than a similar build of another race. That goes away when you get higher in level, mostly. Once clerics get the Heal spell, it doesn't matter much how many HPs you're missing or how difficult you are to heal.

Also, sorcerers won't carry the healing spells because they have very limited spell slots. Wizards might if you ask before the quest starts.

Try making a wizard friend and buying him some reconstruction scrolls once you hit level 9. They're expensive, so make sure it's someone you intend to run with frequently. Even though they're expensive, they're more efficient than potions, costing about 2x as much but healing about 4x as much. They also hasten your melee for 20 seconds or so.

[skraus1]

Well you are facing the WF problem. Yeah they have dr, but they are harder to heal and as your hp get bigger and the monsters hit harder clerics start liking you less and less. You should be using a shield + barkskin pots all the time at level 9 to take less damage. Especially if the clerics are refusing to heal you, that generally is because you're taking all their mana. This also could be because of anti-wf prejudice. It's a combination oftentimes.

And yes, no sorceror ever mems a cure spell unless they expect to be with a lot of wf because they have very few spells and many important things to take.

[Vaarsuvius]

Here this thread should help :)

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=126983

[ENGRAV0]

There is always the option of adding one level of Sorc, the mana wont do much for you, but the ability to use your own wands on yourself is nice. Also, there are a few WF Sorcs out there, mine being one of them, er, two of them. hehe. I have a cleric also, Drow, and always heal the WF, given a choice between a cure spell, or heal, I will always use the heal on WF.

Another option is, you can always tell the Cleric in your group that you will tith him when you can get back out of the quest. be honest though, if he is a good healer, then Tith him. You determine the amount, as my WF are self healing, I dont really use up too much of the clerics mana, just ask them to hit me if I take sudden drastic damage and need to get to a safe spot, or if I am cornered by those dreaded little Rusties, usualy not an issue, but occasionaly. My Sorcs always give 5k to the healers, I have it to spare, and it helps out. If I dont have it, I add the cleric to my freinds list, edit the little box with his name and what I need to send him. I do indeed forget sometimes, but not very often. Clerics are hard to keep around if they aren't freinds of yours, so tithing too early can be bad also at times. You give him money, he leaves partway through the quest, it occurs, but if you treat the cleric right, or inform them you are healer freindly, I have found that often times they are more than happy to keep you going. Just watch out for the battle clerics, grrr. LoL. Hope this gives you a couple of ideas.

[Gara]

It's annoying when someones rolls a warforged but does not have the bank to back the support they so often need. If you want a warforged then prepare to spend lots money on your own healing items. This is true of any character but warforged put extra strain on a cleric. Why should the cleric have to pay out of his or her pocket to keep you healed when you don't carry around your own pots?

It's less of a problem at high level since you get the Heal spell but at low level there is nothing more annoying then a first timer on a warforged who does not even carry a single potion. If you can bank roll the character then you will be a huge asset to your party instead of a bane

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

It's annoying when someones rolls a warforged but does not have the bank to back the support they so often need. If you want a warforged then prepare to spend lots money on your own healing items. This is true of any character but warforged put extra strain on a cleric. Why should the cleric have to pay out of his or her pocket to keep you healed when you don't carry around your own pots?

It's less of a problem at high level since you get the Heal spell but at low level there is nothing more annoying then a first timer on a warforged who does not even carry a single potion. If you can bank roll the character then you will be a huge asset to your party instead of a bane

Thats not always true. I made a WF barb once, got him to level 9, had at least 20 SoF and Barkskin at the max you can buy, all levels or repair pots about 60 of each, and whenever i was outside of a guild group, i was basically looking after myself, no repairs, no cures, I had to watch my health no matter what. he had mith plating, a decent dex score, Heavy shield and Docent max +age for his level, and a Mod fort item. I spent more on myself than any cleric did for all the groups i was in from levels 1-8.

My High Haggle Bard got this stuff fairly cheap.

[NameisToad]

I run a Warforged Paladin sometimes, and I find that Clerics have no problem healing me after I give them cure wands up front. Of course, being a Paladin, I also have my lay on hands, and I use my own cure wands, so maybe it's the fact they can see exactly how far backwards I'm bending to make sure I'm not draining their resources...

My Pally is also a follower of the Lord of Blades, so he uses Greatswords almost exclusively. I carry 100 Barkskin potions and I wear a protection +4 item in order to make up for the lack of a shield, and I have a shield clicky that I remember to use once in a while.

[Ghoste]

You want me to stop my WF racism?!!

Never! No matter what, I will always look down on the weak flesh races.

May the new race triumph and have its rightful place in the world: that place being on the top of a huge pile of fleshling corpses.

Death to all fleshlings!!!

[transtemporal]

Clerics can heal you but as others have mentioned, its at a 50% penalty. This can be increased by taking the Healers friend enhancements. Usually the first level is enough. Its enough to let the cleric know (and do let the cleric know you have the enhancement) that at least you're aware of how much SP it takes to heal you.

Don't take it personally, its just that at lower level clerics don't have a lot of SP to throw around and healing your WF for 50% means the healer could run out of SP at a critical moment. At higher levels the WF thing isn't so much of an issue because a pure healer-spec cleric heals so much damage anyway that the penalty doesn't matter anymore.

My suggestion is to become self-suffcient, carry pots and carry some RSD/RCD wands that you can give to a friendly sorc or wiz to wandwhip you between fights. Although sorcs and wizs do get the repair spells, sorcs have limited spell slots and probably won't take it unless they're WF themselves. Wizs will probably have it and might memorize it if you ask them nicely. The problem with non-healer classes is that they're usually not watching health bars like healers so its a between-fights measure at best!

[Rragnaar]

WF racism is caused by cleric players that don't understand how to play their characters properly. A cleric is supposed to heal the party in a non-partisan way. The problem is: Most people who play clerics that won't heal WF are simply bad players.

[Thailand_Dan]

First off, thx for the great feedback guys, and especially the link above, it helped a lot. Honestly, I didn't know about the upgrade in body type: mitheral, Adm. I thought the only thing you got was a higher level docet. OK, I'm a noob. I will see what I can do to make it more cleric friendly.

Concerning the quote below:


It's annoying when someones rolls a warforged but does not have the bank to back the support they so often need. If you want a warforged then prepare to spend lots money on your own healing items. This is true of any character but warforged put extra strain on a cleric. Why should the cleric have to pay out of his or her pocket to keep you healed when you don't carry around your own pots?

It's less of a problem at high level since you get the Heal spell but at low level there is nothing more annoying then a first timer on a warforged who does not even carry a single potion. If you can bank roll the character then you will be a huge asset to your party instead of a bane

I guess it depends on your perspective. The cleric may say, if you are going to choose a hard to heal toon, you should be ready to pay to support it. I can see the rationale for this in raids or even slayer or long quests where almost everyone is fighting. However, on 6-man, or sometimes 5- or 4- man quests, with a lot of doors to open where the WF is at the front, and every one else ranges from the back, this is kind of unfair IMO. The WF is playing the tank, he has the highest repair bill, dies the most, spends tons on various weapons to match up with approapriate monsters, not to mention the pots he goes through for barkskin and repair. Whereas, the cleric goes to the shrine and gets free sp. I realize in higher level quests clerics carry NE pots, which are pricey, but I am not refering to these. The quests I have gone on so far usually have a shrine handy pretty close to when the cleric is running out of sp.

The other day it happened on a Dessert 3-chest run where everyone buffed, we ran like heck to see if the bosses were there, when one was, the tanks went in, we got the chest, recalled, and reformed. Usually the (level-9) cleric had half a bar of SP at the end of each run. One of the bards (obviously a long time player) was very nice and used his heal (not repair) wand on me. I told him (using a tell) I would eat up a ton of his wands, and he should rather ask the cleric to keep on their job. He ignored my advise and continued to heal me. Great guy.

I guess my point to the responder above is, from my perspective, why should I fight, take the damage, and pay to heal myself, when your (the cleric's) main job is to heal people, but you wont heal me?

I am seriously considering taking my next level as something else to be able to use wands, though. Good advise. A 50-charge wand is a lot cheaper than 50 pots.

[AxeM]

Also since you mentioned typing out heal please it makes me suspect that you don't have a mic. Being able to verbally interact with your party mates can help endear them to you in a way that typing does not.

Also you may want to try lending out Repair wands to the sorcs, I remember from leveling up a cleric those fighters who gave out wands got forgiven for all sorts of getting beat in the face combat styles because no matter how much extra damage they were taking, they were the ones paying for it, not me.

Which reminds me of levling up my fighter and giving out cure wands to clerics since I was 2handing instead of going Sword & Board.

[Thailand_Dan]

Also since you mentioned typing out heal please it makes me suspect that you don't have a mic. Being able to verbally interact with your party mates can help endear them to you in a way that typing does not.


Good point. I dont have a mic. Ears only. Thats a cheap fix.

[Uska]

It's annoying when someones rolls a warforged but does not have the bank to back the support they so often need. If you want a warforged then prepare to spend lots money on your own healing items. This is true of any character but warforged put extra strain on a cleric. Why should the cleric have to pay out of his or her pocket to keep you healed when you don't carry around your own pots?

It's less of a problem at high level since you get the Heal spell but at low level there is nothing more annoying then a first timer on a warforged who does not even carry a single potion. If you can bank roll the character then you will be a huge asset to your party instead of a bane

Hey it's not just the wf who put a burden on the cleric, how about the zerging fighter swinging a two-hander running around like a monkey on crack not carrying any potions or contribuiting for wands and constantly screaming heal me?

[Arianrhod]

Another thing that can sometimes cause the heals/repairs to be slow in coming is when there is confusion as to who's going to take responsibility for the job. If there's both a cleric and an arcane in the group, each might think the other will be healing/repairing the WF, and the WF might be assuming there's plenty of healing/repairing available & not using potions as quickly as he otherwise might. Communicating before the fighting starts, and getting a clear idea of who's going to be healing/repairing (or whether anyone will) can help solve this issue before it starts (though sometimes the solution is dropping group for a more cooperative team). As mentioned above, having voice chat does help with communication.

[Boldrin]

Suggestion.... Make a battle wizard. Self healing , all the benefits of WF ,and Nifty spells like FW PK and FOD.

[Hvymetal]

Simple reply, stupid Clerics. No really and seriously. I have a Warforged Cleric than ran in mostly Warforged groups, never had a problem really healing them along with anyone else. Hell, even my Rogue doesn't have an issue wand whipping Warforged.

Sorry to say it if you seriously have a problem healing a prepared Warforged (which from the OP's follow up post seems he was, repair pots, 100& fort, Barkskin pots) then you are quite simply a gimp yourself and were it me I would hope you knew how to deal with aggro from mobs when you get it, cause I will let you die.

[ENGRAV0]

You want me to stop my WF racism?!!

Never! No matter what, I will always look down on the weak flesh races.

May the new race triumph and have its rightful place in the world: that place being on the top of a huge pile of fleshling corpses.

Death to all fleshlings!!!

You know Ghoste, I keep hearing so much about you, I am gonna have to run with you sometime. I hear your a blast to run with, hope to do this sometime.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Never beg!
When your HP get really low, go to the back of the group and range from a safe distance. They will eventually get the idea......they might have to die first, but eventually they will miss your tanking for them. :)

[Cowdenicus]

WF racism is caused by cleric players that don't understand how to play their characters properly. A cleric is supposed to heal the party in a non-partisan way. The problem is: Most people who play clerics that won't heal WF are simply bad players.

Who says a cleric is supposed to heal at all. If you were really intrested in being healed, you would have the UMD to do it yourself.

[BuzzSaw]

At the risk of being repetative...

http://www.forgottenlegion.net/forgotten_tales/ft18.jpg
http://www.forgottenlegion.net/forgotten_tales/ft19.jpg

As for the WF Bias, Yea, I've gotten grief on my WF about not being able to heal as well, but they all have two levels of healer's friend and I do not believe that they are any harder on the Clerics in the group then a Rogue trying to tank or the Raging Human Barbarian with 9 AC.

But trust me, my experience has been 95% positive with most clerics having no real issue healing WF. And once the clerics do get Heal, you will get alot less static.

As for Sorcerers, unless they was warforged themselves, they are not going to be packing Repair. So hope you get an understanding Wizard. But don't rely on them either...If they wanted to heal they would have rolled a cleric. You seem to have the right idea...alot of self reliance.

Not a bad plan overall.
Buzz

[vainangel]

Whatever type of character you play, if you cannot heal yourself, you will be at the mercy of the party.

This is where guilds come in handy.
IF you want to carry RsW pots with you, that would work, and a few wands to give to a sorc, ranger, wiz to help you out.

[Mithran]

Why play a cleric if you don't understand the principles behind being a cleric. Your "corrections" are the obvious marks of an idiotic personality. Racism in game often rweflects a person who is racist in real life and is therefore not worth the time of day.

So put your white hood back on and go accidentally crucify yourself on a burning cross.


There's a difference between Cure and Repair. Loved your guest appearance in the above comic, though.

[Impaqt]

I dont care if your Warforged, Drow, Human or Dwarf.. If you start spamming "Heal me!!!!!!" over and over, you are NOT going to get healed until I feel like it.

If your Warforged and make NO Attempt to keep yourself upright, Why should I? Them are the trade off ya make for all those sweet immunities. Carry Pots, Take an arcane level and carry Wands, or Get a Solid UMD Score.

ANd for Cryin out loud, If ya cant afford to buy pots, Dont play a warforged. If you insist on being a robot, at LEAST use a Sheild and Play smart.

[MysticRhythms]

Some tips for you when you play your character. Note: I do not believe you need to change anything nor are you REQUIRED to take a level in an arcanist class to heal yourself. Play your character, just play it smart:

1) Never assume you will be healed. if you accept that you are your own responsibility, you'll change your mindset in a quest to reflect that. you'll become self-sufficient through necessity. you'll start to learn what clickies are valuable to you and you'll pace yourself properly in fights.

2) it is not your job to kill everything. A warforged fighter (and any character, for that matter), needs to put himself in harms' way against the toughest enemy fighter types. Let the people with Evasion go after spellcasters. you need to throw your adamantine skeleton in front of the big, bad nasty. Often these are enemies that are hard to hit and have things like poison or other nasty effects that you are immune to. Yes it is important to kill casters, but casters are also the things that do the most damage to you via their spells.

3) In light of 2), buff yourself. It's easy to obtain the house phiarlan and House Jorasco buffs. Use them. this gives you lots of great ways to mitigate your incoming damage. Take the Owl's Wisdom buff to help you with Will saves. Take Resist Fire because nothing really stops Scorching Ray. take Resist Cold if you are going up against Niac's. This all helps you become "easier to heal." This also makes fights against spellcasters a lot easier.

4) Don't feel that you are forced to equip a shield. If you have Power Attack and a Two-Handed weapon (unless you are devoted purely to tanking, you SHOULD be using Power Attack and a two-Hander on a WF Fighter), then find yourself some Shield clickies. I know it's not easy to do, but you should seriously consider saving money up to buy them off the Auction house if you can. I've managed to come across maybe a dozen total Shield clickies in my playing career and I have never sold a single one. they stop Magic Missile. They give you a Shield bonus to AC equivalent to a +2 Heavy Steel Shield. Use them for big fights. If you can find some affordable Warforged Titan cookies, use those. They last a lot longer than clickies do.

5) Buy potions. Buy CandyCanes. Farm tangleroot for Lily Petals and other good potions. Carry Lesser Restoration Potions and Remove Curse and remove Blindness. Put yourself in a position where you never have to say "Can I get a _____, please?" you're already immune to many things so you can carry far fewer items. Be the guy that the cleric says "you know, he never asks me to remove stat damage or anything else." They'll be a lot more inclined to heal you if they notice that they don't have to spend their mana on other effects. If you can get some affordable Candy Canes, do it. Use them to top off between fights.

6) Buy Repair Wands (they're cheaper than potions). Just ask for them back. Ask the sorcerer/wizard to only use them between fights to top you off. Go with Potions in fights (they're faster to use anyway). If you come out and say this, people will realize that you are taking responsibility for your character. They will be far more willing to help you when you need it from them.

7) Don't say "Heal Please." One of two things is happening. Check the cleric's mana bar. If it's full, then you are grouping with a cleric who obviously won't listen to your requests anyway. Back off fights and play conservatively in such a case. NEVER type "heal, please." It's just annoying. If the cleric's mana bar is empty, he's likely been trying to heal you and you are possibly taking on too much aggression or not using any of the tips above. In this case, "heal, please" is extremely annoying. Take responsibility for yourself and learn to play around the type of cleric you have rather than forcing the cleric to play around your playstyle.

8) Get a Repair +X item and use shrines aggressively. Remember to tell clerics that you will be using a shrine. there is no need for you to be wand-whipped if you have a safe shrine anywhere on the map that you can use. If need be, gt an Expeditious Retreat clicky to get yourself to the shrine and back faster. If you are a Warforged Fighter taking advantage of Tactics, you should have skill points to be able to afford maxxing out Repair. Do so.

9) I've already siad it but I can't help but stress this point - use clickies. Load your pack up with good ones. you don't need a poisonproof, disease immunity or underwater action item. Use these slots to shore up your defenses. Even the lame little trinket fom one of the kobolds in the harbor grants Resist Fire 10 for a few minutes. I have it on my 7th level Warforged Fighter. In fact, I have two. being a two-handed fighter also means you aren't loading your pack up with multiple shields nad you have half as many weapons as a TWF. Be smart about your pack space. A warforged fighter should have a super utility belt worth of handy items. I carry around a Fox's Cunning clickie for my fellow Rogues and an Owl's Wisdom clickie for myself to dal with Fear saves even more than just a Remove Fear pot will. Heck, I even carry clickies to remove things I'm immune to because I know that fleshies tend to rely n their clerics for that.

10) When you hit the high levels, you'll never need to worry about clerics moaning about healing you anymore. They'll have access to hte Heal spell and you will be spending less and less money on repair wands. Build up the habit, however, and you'll be rewarded with "easier" play once you have buddies that can cast Heal. In fact, they'll love your immunity to energy drain since you won't be crying about negative levels.

[Invalid_82]

As a long time player of multiple wf barbs, I 100% agree with what others are eluding to here, to make it easier on yourself it REALLY helps to have the bankroll to support your new WF through the earlier levels until the heal spell becomes available. To the OP you are going through the tough levels right now, but you are getting close to making it over the hump where a WF with Healers Friend loses the major stigma of being not worth it to heal. Especially caring a bit of resources in case of a pinch ie reconstruct scrolls/wands and pots and you should be good to go. Another suggestion I have for you, and I have this on both my WF barbs is getting the Finger Necklace of the Ah, it will increase your healing by 10% bringing you up to 80% with Healers Friend 2 and 85% with Healers Friend 3. Clerics should notice a big difference between healing you and healing a wf with no Healers Friend. And if you let your clerics know that you have 80%+ healing in most of the groups I have been in they have treated me with the same respect as my fleshy comrades hehe. I have talked with many others that wanted tips on making a wf and first thing I tell them, is it's expensive to bring them through the low and mid levels. If you can keep looking forward to getting to the higher levels, find yourself a finger necklace, let your clerics know that you are 80% healer friendly and carry a bit of resources if it needed I am sure as people play and see all these factors you will find less and less of a problem with clerics and others not healing. The truth of it is, the roles reverse in the end game because as a WF you can be healed by Clerics at 80%, Wizzy's at 100%, Sorcs at 100%, Pallies at 80% and 100% lay on hands, UMDer's using Scrolls at 80-100%, in fact you become the easiest person to heal because almost every class can heal you if needed. In high level elite quests this healing factor can be the difference between success or failure. So stick with it, I am sure things will change when you get past this hump.

Prey
Hand of the Black Tower - Khyber

[Thailand_Dan]

Once again guys, appreciate all the helpful advise. In reading the link to another thread, I see you can have composite plating, mitheral, or adamantine body types. Is this an initial decision when you first create it, or are these upgrades. In either case, how do choose which one you want. To be clear, I am NOT asking, "how do I choose, which one is better". Rather, I am asking, "what screen, vendor, or NPC do I go to make this choice."

Thx

[WeaselKing]

Once again guys, appreciate all the helpful advise. In reading the link to another thread, I see you can have composite plating, mitheral, or adamantine body types. Is this an initial decision when you first create it, or are these upgrades. In either case, how do choose which one you want. To be clear, I am NOT asking, "how do I choose, which one is better". Rather, I am asking, "what screen, vendor, or NPC do I go to make this choice."

Thx

You talk to Fred the Mindflayer beneath the garden in House Jorasco. You will need a certain amount of money (based on your level) and a Khyber Dragonshard (either flawed imperfect or regular depending on your level). If you have not done the q&a quest in the harbor behind the mailbox near the AH, then you can complete this quest to obtain a feat repec token that will take the place of the dragonshard. Fred will allow you to trade any feat for any other that you could have taken when you took that feat initially. For what you are doing this shouldn't be a problem but it can be a pain when you are trying to respec a chain of feats.

[malnon]

WF racism is caused by cleric players that don't understand how to play their characters properly. A cleric is supposed to heal the party in a non-partisan way. The problem is: Most people who play clerics that won't heal WF are simply bad players.

Incorrect. A cleric is responsible for six members in a full party. A clerics job is to make sure that the key party members are alive to finish the quest, not to play babysitter. And if you are taking that much damage there is something else wrong with the party, not just a WF/cleric issue.

As stated, once we get the heal spell the WF become much easier to heal, but before that they can drain the sp of a cleric. Although I will say dwarf tanks (especially barbs) are no better. WF have a second strike against them with the -50% heal. At low levels it can be extremely tough to manage a full party without proper buffs (another common problem) when people are running content above their level. When you add in a WF the problem becomes compounded.

Think of the cleric watching the red bars on 6 players drop. Wihtout mass heal spells and sup devotion/potency items our ability to heal in tough confrontations is extremely limited. And wands are not an answer, nothing use to annoy me more than using a cure serious wand on a dwarf/WF tank, healing them for 20 some points and barely noticing the red bar go up.

I am not saying the cleric should completely ignore you. But look at it from their point of view. Instead having one annoyed player, if they burn all their sp on you they will have 5.

[Ringos]

[QUOTE=Thailand_Dan;1560500]I guess my point to the responder above is, from my perspective, why should I fight, take the damage, and pay to heal myself, when your (the cleric's) main job is to heal people, but you wont heal me?
QUOTE]

Just two things to remember here (just advice)...

Don't think that a Cleric is just a Healbot...and if you do think it, don't tell anyone. That will make you very few friends. There are some GREAT Clerics that post on the forums that can do it all. At least one group of Clerics took out the Reaver on Elite. Do they like having a decent tank around? You bet! Clerics can do pretty well on their own, so please don't think they can't do it without you.

It's MY playstyle that tells me to keep EVERYONE healed up. Some Clerics are the same, some are different. If someone starts telling me how to play, that would probably be the last time I grouped with them. I don't mind someone letting me know if they are getting low on HP or throwing a helpful tip once in a while, but we all pay the same amount each month to play how we want.



Like I said, this is not meant to be mean at all, just tryin' to pass along a few tips.

Take care!

[esoitl]

no offense to the people posting but some of this i find laughable

i've partied with WF's all the time and i have never had an issue healing them. that all depends on the cleric and how much of an idiot they are. now, i have also run with wizards and sorcs who are given wands(and i have been that sorc before) who just never remember to heal WF's.

hell, i've run with WF wizards who don't heal themselves


i think i have seen every kind of WF class out there and run with them, i honestly don't mind healing UNLESS the group becomes a drain on resources..... then and only then do i get a bit disgruntled at the WF and having to heal more than a regular character.... not that i won't but it sucks to blow through more money than needed

the 'WF racism' comes from the bad players(maybe poor players) who feel that it isn't their job to heal WF with a wiz in the party and don't want to spend the sp and eventually wands(read: cash) to heal them

taking healers friend is a big bonus in my eyes, you can obviously tell who has it and who doesn't by the numbers over their heads. if i see a WF without it i give priority to other well before him, it's HARD to keep them up without the heal spell so really you end up wasting sp on ineffective healing and probably are leading yourself to some bad times


by the sounds of it you just grouped with some bad clerics in the past - not all of us hate the toasters of the world.... except when you are the lone fleshy in a party of 5 WF's which i have done more than i care to remember



FYI: i hate the people who are crying for heals - i don't even bother trying to fight but instead am constantly looking at the life bars..... the cleric will more often than not know you need a heal. it gets annoying when people start telling you how to do your job..... it'd be like me telling you to swing your axe(or what have you)

[Bluediemond]

WF is the worst race there is in the game currently.

Sorcs have the ability to heal, but limited amount of spells. They can change spells once every 3 days and unless they group with a WF often, they are not generally willing to change for you...

They can, however, use wands...but this is a secondary skill to nuking. I personally take more interest in nuking and debuffing than keeping someone alive. If I wanted to play a healer, I'd play my cleric. Have you offered them a wand to heal you?

Wizzards will always be your main friend since they can change spells at taverns/shrines as well as use the same wands.

Clerics take such a huge penalty healing you, they are already limited enough with flesh types, it's not worth wasting mana on tin men. If your group chose you as a main tank, they also need to accept responsibilty for healing you.

I personaly will group with only 1 WF and that's simply because he's a guildie...and basically takes care of himself. He'll hand me a few wands and ask that I heal if I have time, but he understands he's picked a tough class to play, and plays it well.

If you want to play a class that is at a disadvantage from the start, don't cry....grit your teeth, play your class and cover your own assets as best you can.

Turbine has repeatedly tried to make the WF more appealing by making them immune to many effects, giving them crit repair potions and dropping occasional cans of WD-40 from mobs, but the fact still remains casters don't want to play healers and healers don't want to spend double mana on them.

[Ghoste]

WF is the worst race in the game when played foolishly.

WF is the best race in the game when played well.

That is why the WF race will reign supreme. It is evolution in progress. Weeding out the morons one at a time to produce a master race that will crush their former oppressors: the fleshling plague that covers Eberron!

Think about it. WF take a 50% penalty from fleshling healing, and can reduce this penalty a little bit. Fleshlings however take a 100% penalty from wf repairing, and there's not a thing they can do to reduce it. Fleshlings are just plain gimped when it comes to repairing.

And I laugh when I read the notion that Turbine tried to make them more appealing by giving them immunities. Turbine just implemented immunities that wf were already supposed to have, immunities created by Wizards of the Coast, not Turbine.. And if you think those immunities are appealing, wait til the introduce the warforged juggernaut.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

WF is the worst race in the game when played foolishly.

WF is the best race in the game when played well.

That is why the WF race will reign supreme. It is evolution in progress. Weeding out the morons one at a time to produce a master race that will crush their former oppressors: the fleshling plague that covers Eberron!

Took you 2 Hours and 22 Min to respond.........I was expecting your pro-WF response a lot sooner Ghoste! :)

I use to hate WF when I first started playing, but now they are really starting to grow on me.

I think a WF Wiz has no handycaps at all!

And a WF Ftr only has to worry about how he is going to be healed....er....repaired.

I do question WF Pallies, Bards, Clerics, and Sorcs though.

I'm enjoying my WF Rgr and Rog.....and a Battle Wiz. Only the Rgr is out of the Harbor yet though.

But to any foolish enough to think WF are handicapped, I can say that the WF Wizards I have seen have been among the best toons in the game.

don't let all the Harbor Kid Barbs fool you, or cloud your judgement.

And anyone, Cleric or otherwise should do their best to support everyone in the party as best as they can!

[Ghoste]

If you question wf clerics: what role do you expect the cleric to play? As a healer? Pft, this is wf revenge on all those people who play clerics that wont heal wf. A wf cleric is one variety of self healing tank.

Sorcs: -1 DC on spells in exchange for the fastest self healing in the game, wf immunities, +4 con (+6 over elves and drow)

Pallies: ever seen a wf pally or barb solo a room full of beholders? They're unstoppable.

So once again, here's another call for increased wf racism! Death to all fleshlings!!!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

If you question wf clerics: what role do you expect the cleric to play? As a healer? Pft, this is wf revenge on all those people who play clerics that wont heal wf. A wf cleric is one variety of self healing tank.

Sorcs: -1 DC on spells in exchange for the fastest self healing in the game, wf immunities, +4 con (+6 over elves and drow)

Pallies: ever seen a wf pally or barb solo a room full of beholders? They're unstoppable.

So once again, here's another call for increased wf racism! Death to all fleshlings!!!

LOL!

Someday I will make a WF Cleric with the last name "IDontHealWiz"....or something like that. :)

[Ghoste]

LOL!

Someday I will make a WF Cleric with the last name "IDontHealWiz"....or something like that. :)
When a wizard or sorc joins the group, ask if they have repair loaded. If they say "no", you say "funny, cuz I don't have any healing spells loaded either".

[transtemporal]

You talk to Fred the Mindflayer beneath the garden in House Jorasco. You will need a certain amount of money (based on your level) and a Siberys Dragonshard (either flawed imperfect or regular depending on your level). If you have not done the q&a quest in the harbor behind the mailbox near the AH, then you can complete this quest to obtain a feat repec token that will take the place of the dragonshard. Fred will allow you to trade any feat for any other that you could have taken when you took that feat initially. For what you are doing this shouldn't be a problem but it can be a pain when you are trying to respec a chain of feats.

Fixed that for ya :)

[Vinos]

Actually my WF is well received. In fact I have to tell the clerics to stop healing me. But I carry pots and have both an Arcane Psycho and a straight sorc so I can cast repair. Toss the wiz/sorc a wand and don't get over your head and you'll be fine.

[transtemporal]

You know Ghoste, I keep hearing so much about you, I am gonna have to run with you sometime. I hear your a blast to run with, hope to do this sometime.

Can't you see the sign? "Do Not Feed the Warforged." :D

[Hvymetal]

WF is the worst race there is in the game currently.

Sorcs have the ability to heal, but limited amount of spells. They can change spells once every 3 days and unless they group with a WF often, they are not generally willing to change for you...

They can, however, use wands...but this is a secondary skill to nuking. I personally take more interest in nuking and debuffing than keeping someone alive. If I wanted to play a healer, I'd play my cleric. Have you offered them a wand to heal you?

Wizzards will always be your main friend since they can change spells at taverns/shrines as well as use the same wands.

Clerics take such a huge penalty healing you, they are already limited enough with flesh types, it's not worth wasting mana on tin men. If your group chose you as a main tank, they also need to accept responsibilty for healing you.

I personaly will group with only 1 WF and that's simply because he's a guildie...and basically takes care of himself. He'll hand me a few wands and ask that I heal if I have time, but he understands he's picked a tough class to play, and plays it well.

If you want to play a class that is at a disadvantage from the start, don't cry....grit your teeth, play your class and cover your own assets as best you can.

Turbine has repeatedly tried to make the WF more appealing by making them immune to many effects, giving them crit repair potions and dropping occasional cans of WD-40 from mobs, but the fact still remains casters don't want to play healers and healers don't want to spend double mana on them.LOL the perfect person for the ole grab all the aggro hit dip and watch em squeal!!! :rolleyes:

I mean come on man you really come off as having absolutly no idea of the subject of which you are speaking.....

Edit: And please if you are on Arggo and ever group with a WF Cleric named Ignot let me know, 1 less person's bar I would have to try and keep an eye on.

[Vinos]

If you question wf clerics: what role do you expect the cleric to play? As a healer? Pft, this is wf revenge on all those people who play clerics that wont heal wf. A wf cleric is one variety of self healing tank.

Sorcs: -1 DC on spells in exchange for the fastest self healing in the game, wf immunities, +4 con (+6 over elves and drow)

Pallies: ever seen a wf pally or barb solo a room full of beholders? They're unstoppable.

So once again, here's another call for increased wf racism! Death to all fleshlings!!!


You are my hero. That is all. Gonna roll a WF cleric right now.

[Teech]

...
As stated, once we get the heal spell the WF become much easier to heal, but before that they can drain the sp of a cleric. Although I will say dwarf tanks (especially barbs) are no better. ...

Think of the cleric watching the red bars on 6 players drop. Wihtout mass heal spells and sup devotion/potency items our ability to heal in tough confrontations is extremely limited. And wands are not an answer, nothing use to annoy me more than using a cure serious wand on a dwarf/WF tank, healing them for 20 some points and barely noticing the red bar go up.



Just a comment... I was puzzled when I read that you rank dwarfs with WFs in terms of 'healability'. WFs naturally get a negative to cure spells, but dwarfs are no different from other fleshies.

Then I read your comment below and it seems that you're unhappy with dwarfs because "nothing use to annoy me more than using a cure serious wand on a dwarf/WF tank, healing them for 20 some points and barely noticing the red bar go up"

So...basically...you don't like characters to have high hitpoints?

[Zenako]

Well with a WF in the group, a lot of my turns end up as Divine Healing III that run. FULL effect, works well and most WF only take damage slowly I have found. I have never had an issue healing another race, be it halfling, drow, elf, dwarf, WF or Barbarians. I sometimes actually consider those raging loons to be another race of character from all the normal ones.:)

If the WF is carrying their weight (so to speak) then they get healing from me as well as the next character. In fact, they often make better use of those healing spells since I tend to not over HEAL them as much.

[DragonKiller]

Just a note/suggestion. Even on my WF Barb/Rogue/Wiz who can self heal I still took 1 level of Healers Friend. That way when the Cleric does need to pop me a heal, then I'm more mana friendly for them.

On a personal note too, I have found that as much as possible being able to take care of your self makes for a better player. On all my characters I keep wands/pots/clickies/etc... as needed to as much as possible take care of any problems I might encounter. This helps you when you are soloing, and when in a party helps to manage the parties resources. If you do that, then no matter what race/class you are you will always be welcomed in a party.

[MrCow]

Can't you see the sign? "Do Not Feed the Warforged."

I would agree that feeding Warforged is silly. Warforged don't eat. However, Warforged still like to be desired and/or loved. :)

[transtemporal]

I would agree that feeding Warforged is silly. Warforged don't eat. However, Warforged still like to be desired and/or loved. :)

Yes of course, and thats why the sign is there... to prevent embarassment by offering WF food. Like offering a vegetarian steak.

WF are teddybears really. Big metal teddybears with 26 str, glowing red eyes and razor sharp claws. :D

[Hvymetal]

I would agree that feeding Warforged is silly. Warforged don't eat. However, Warforged still like to be desired and/or loved. :)
We do? Hmmmm must go off to ponder this because all I ever seem to desire is the feeling of my blade sinking into soft squishy flesh:confused:

[Kalari]

Now I havent been playing as long as many, but one of the firsts group of people I ran with were WF playing characters. They were very nice and I had taken the repair skill cause it was there so that helped. But many gave me wands to help them, and now I buy one or two when I have the extra money, its only fair to help protect someone thats keeping the big mob from squishing me. But thats just how I play, I also took a couple of ranks in repair and its funny I can save a dying wf but my heal checks blow so if your humanoid your out of luck till I put more ranks in that. So far I like helping the WF players even thought they are big and intimidating looking most are very fun to quest with and all ive grouped with thank me for helping them out.

[CSFurious]

who understand that while playing their wizard that healing wf is a great idea & makes the whole quest easier

or, that when playing their bard using a repair wand on the wf is good for the group

anyway, you should be willing to help pay for the cost of any repair wands being used

IMO asking a sor to use a repair wand on you is sort of pushing it as most sors are there for a specific purpose, i.e., crowd-control &/or death/destruction

[transtemporal]

Heh, I met a very cool TWF WF barb playing my healer-spec cleric last night. He sent me a tell saying "I'm kinda new to this TWF melee thing so let me know if I'm too much of a burden". He was cool and courteous so I healed him all the way through. He didn't even need it either. Turns out he had healers friend too.

As it turns out I heal courteous people. Who woulda thought?

[croger1520033]

WF racism is caused by cleric players that don't understand how to play their characters properly. A cleric is supposed to heal the party in a non-partisan way. The problem is: Most people who play clerics that won't heal WF are simply bad players.

LOL, you must be fairly new to the game.

A smart cleric, especially in the lower level quests, that refuse to heal a WF do so because it is in the best interest of the party. I can dump all my mana in the the mana sponge to keep him up or I can let him die and let the other tank who can be healed much more efficiently without using all my mana kill things for us. Then when we get to a shrine I can tell the wf that if he wants to be a wf he needs to take healers friend and stop THF until he can be less of a mana sponge. I don't care if he does more damage with a TWO hander If he uses all the clerics mana in one fight miles away from a shrine let him die. If he wants to give me money then he can expect a heal from me.

The bad players are the WF who refuse to give a cleric money but have no quams about going through 5 of his cure serious wands because he has 4 DR. Buy your own dang pots and hang out in the back and kill kobolds until you are big enough to understand how to play a WF CORRECTLY.

[Aranticus]

Just a comment... I was puzzled when I read that you rank dwarfs with WFs in terms of 'healability'. WFs naturally get a negative to cure spells, but dwarfs are no different from other fleshies.

Then I read your comment below and it seems that you're unhappy with dwarfs because "nothing use to annoy me more than using a cure serious wand on a dwarf/WF tank, healing them for 20 some points and barely noticing the red bar go up"

So...basically...you don't like characters to have high hitpoints?

ah let me fill ya in. take 2 barbs, 1 wf, 1 dwarf

the wf is likely to get con, DR , toughness and power attack enhancements while the dwarf will likely go barb con, dwarf con, axe, barb and dwarf con enhancements. basically a dwarven barb is likely to focus on increasing survivability by having an enormus amount of hp but a wf barb is likely to increase survivability by reducing damage. thus a dwarven barb is likely to be more offensive oriented and with a huge hp and the uselessness of ac (unless >50) they tend to go with robes. against high level mobs, not much difference, but with the easier mobs ie gnolls, hobgoblins, animals, etc the dwarf gets hits more often compared to the wf barb thus taking more damage. basically, quite a few of these dwarven barbs tend to have the mentality of "i have 500+ hp, i can kill wantonly regardless of hits taken, just keep me healed and they'll die".... yes its a good logic..... not for the poor cleric

[Mudang]

I was in a group as my bard the other day, doing the Kobold Assault on hard. We had two tanks, a warforged fighter, and a human fighter. The warforged asked if anyone had repair, and got a reply from one of the two sorcerors that if he had a wand, he would gladly watch his health for him. The warforged replied something like, "Those are two expensive for me. Can someone else in the group buy a repair wand?" This is after others had already pitched in giving me cure moderate wounds to be the healer as my bard.

After we were in the quest, the first action was everyone else forming a tight group to barricade the doors, and the warforged charging across the field to kill all the kobolds he could see. Hold person, almost dead warforged... he finally stabilizes and runs back and gets me to heal him to full. He repeated the process, having me reheal him his entire health bar multiple times, whereas others needed fairly little healing because they were playing smart.

At the end of the quest, resources were running dry, I was out of mana, almost out of wand charges, and everyone was almost dead. Now, the thing that came to my mind was this... I already healed the warforge to full at least 2 to 3 times as often as everyone else... and everytime I did that, there were 2 other people who weren't receiving that healing. That quest we did okay, but just a twitch the other way to the monsters side, and everyone would have died. Had I just let the warforged die, no one else would have needed to even be close to dying.

That's why there is warforged racism. For every 30 hp we heal you for, there are 60 hp worth of heals that others can't receive. You need to minimize me healing you to half as much as everyone else in order to give everyone an equal shot of survivability. Many warforged don't do that, or even care. Of course they are bad players, and not representative of all warforged, but the point is that being a warforged excerberates the drain a bad player is.

[Ghoste]

Mudang makes a good point. I see that a lot at lower levels. Most, not all of the really bad players, seem to get weeded out at lower levels. That's not to say all high level warforged are great players, but they have passed through a little bit of purification fire that other races do not go through.

[studentx]

Q1. Have you played a cleric and tried to cure moderate a warforged tank?
q2. Have you played a wizard trying to light or serious repair a warforged?
q3. Have you been carrying repair serious wands with you to give to the caster or cure wands to give the cleric?

My guess is no and therefore your getting hate.

WF bias goes away after 11/13 depending on when the cleric gets both heal and greater dev/potency 6+.

[Thame]

It's annoying when someones rolls a warforged but does not have the bank to back the support they so often need. If you want a warforged then prepare to spend lots money on your own healing items. This is true of any character but warforged put extra strain on a cleric. Why should the cleric have to pay out of his or her pocket to keep you healed when you don't carry around your own pots?

It's less of a problem at high level since you get the Heal spell but at low level there is nothing more annoying then a first timer on a warforged who does not even carry a single potion. If you can bank roll the character then you will be a huge asset to your party instead of a bane

Classic WF prejudice. Wf put no more strain on any grp then any other race. ALL races should carry pots, ALL races should help pay for healing.

As for clerics that dont heal WF? Do like I do. Say ok and start pulling all the mobs directly for the casters in your grp. Either the cleric is smart enough to get the point and start healing you or hes dumb and will die doesnt matter because you prob would have recalled anyway without heals and people will look worse on the cleric then on you. I did this once in a reaver raid I was laughing the whole time

[Hadrian]

Training things onto your casters is probably not the best way to prove your point. I doubt they will look badly on the cleric because you are trying to get them killed on purpose. More likely they will just replace you with someone else and never have to worry about healing you again, since you will never be in the same group again.

[Thailand_Dan]

When I started this thread, as a faily new player, I was mainly referring to two incidents that had happened recently, and several in the past. One, already mentioned, was in one of the level 11 dessert quests with tons of flesh renderers, where the cleric had a full bar of sp, as we were approaching a shrine and simply wouldnt heal my level 9 WF Fighter. Let me point out that I was two handing, but drinking barkskin pots, had two levels of healers friend, moderate fortitfication belt (which equates to full fortitfication) and pretty much the only meleer in the group. I was the frontline, taking the heat, and my kill count reflected that. In this case, the bard in the party was nice enough to use his heal moderate wand on me often.

The other incident that occurred, was in the haunted library on elite, where my hp was at about 20% and the cleric never gave me a heal even when asked, so I simply left the mission. In this case, I watched as the ad for players came back up asking for a tank, after about 10 minutes, I saw players drop out of the group and assume the mission was never run.

Since posting this, I have learned a lot from here and playing the game. I rolled a Human Bard, mainly to get a good haggle to buy pots for my WF. However, I like playing the Bard, so I have now brought him up to level 9 and he has become my main toon. Often since there are not enough clerics online, I get frequent invites to be a healer. With the need for healers, I am running many higher level missions for the first time. As a result, I am able to see where the mobs/traps/etc are without doing much other then watching the red bars go down, and healing people. Not to mention, the loot is great. On my WF the most money I was ever able to scrape together was 10,000 pp. On my Bard, through 9 levels, I've managed to accumulate over 50,000 pp, not to mention a few rare items, which I farm out to my other toons. Lastly, playing the part of a healer has shown the annoyance of poor or inexperienced players playing a WF fighter and taking tons of damage while not being healer friendly. This usually is not the case, but I have seen examples of it.

Taking some advice from another poster, I have become a more independent player. I realize now, I need to upgrade the body type of my WF, if I want to continue running higher level quests. Composite plating is just too fragile. However, I need a dragonshard for that, so when I get one, I will upgrade it, and play my WF again.

In summary, for new players out there considering a WF fighter, I would recommend upgrading to the Admn body type as a soon as possible, because the longer you wait, the more expensive it is. Second, I would not make this toon your primary, or highest level toon. The reason being, the things you need to buy to go with it are expensive (i.e. Barkskin and Repair pots). In addition, meleers are usually expected to lead, therefore when you hit higher level quests (that you have not done before), you often trip traps, take on tons of aggro, and often go the wrong way all to the annoyance of your party (and your pocket book on equipment repairs). Lastly, expect to be on your own. While many people out there will gladly throw you a heal, many will not. If you expect, people to do it, or even worse ask/demand someone to do it, you will probably end up alienating yourself from the group.

Thanks to eveyone for posting your comments and suggestions. They have helped tremendously.