Crafting a joke

[Thame]

Ok we finally get crafting and when we do of course it has to be made into a MASSIVE timesink geared towards people that spend 24/7 on this game.
As I see it (prove me wrong if I am) You have to run the vale quests however many 20-30 times each to get 5 small items (chipmunk funk or some ****) to combine to make 1 special item then you need 20-30 of the special items to make a weapon or clothing, lets not forget the possibility the items can be destroyed if not mixed properly? (according to the pop up I was given, this is incorrect and some items may have been destroyed). Oh and lets not forget you have to have a certain power cell. Dont you have to combine so many of these as well to make a more powerful cell to use for the finished item or some ****? If you mix wrong dont you have to start over.
So how was this implemented to be geared towards everyone?. Not all of us play 24/7 we have jobs and lives and all of our freetime isnt dedicated to DDO. We pay the same price each month regardless how much we sit in front of our computers so we should get the same chances to get items from crafting also.

IMO crafting was a great addition but needs to be implemented differently.

[BlueLightBandit]

So you wanted crafting that could make the raid loot with less than a few hours worth of work?

THAT would be a joke.

[GlassCannon]

OP is absolutely correct(about the target crowd anyway).

This is geared to plat farmers and powergamers.

The Casual Gamers were the ones asking for crafting predominantly. This alienates us.

Then again, we should let them figure out all the recipes and then traverse the Shroud afterward. Patience is a virtue. Save those components.

[Canuckalhead]

So you wanted crafting that could make the raid loot with less than a few hours worth of work?

THAT would be a joke.

/agree 100%

Of course its going to be a grind. Look at crafting in other MMOs. It takes a long time to level your skill up enough to make high end stuff, not to mention having to shell out in game cash to buy stuff you can't craft yourself but is a needed componant. Would you prefer to be skinning a million boars to get a high enough crafting level to make something good instead of being able to run quests, gain XP and loot chests along the way to gethering the goods needed?

IMO, this is one of the better crafting set-ups out there.

[Thame]

I really dont care how its setup to be done as long as EVERYONE gets the same chance to make items. Not just power gamers. Sorry Im not going to be jobless or lack a social life to be able to grind for a week straight just so I can make a useful in game item. Give casual players the same chance to make items in a decent timeframe.

[isldur]

Ok take a deep breath and relax. Just like someone else told you, let the power gamers figure out the recipes, the proud (and rightly so) ones will post recipes. Eventually you will know what to put in, to get what you wanted. Just give it time. Jezzz the mod has been out less than a week.

[Talcyndl]

I really dont care how its setup to be done as long as EVERYONE gets the same chance to make items. Not just power gamers. Sorry Im not going to be jobless or lack a social life to be able to grind for a week straight just so I can make a useful in game item. Give casual players the same chance to make items in a decent timeframe.

The only thing of real value in any MMORPG is a player's time. So unless you think everyone in the game should be given the same items (or "chance" at them), then I don't know how you'd propose a system that doesn't reward effort/time in the game.

:shrug:

[Rragnaar]

The thing that amuses me about this post is that people think that the ingrediants only fall in the quests. There are all the rare encounters in the vale where ingrediants can fall as well. If you want to casually kill time, get a group and run through the vale hitting the rare encounters. The quests guarentee the items to make the weapon frames and 1 random ingrediant, but the random ingrediants are available in the vale as well.

And if the Casual gamer is as casual as they suggest, they shouldn't be expecting to be able to craft anything in the first week of the mod. take time, let the markets settle, let people discover what makes what.

[Canuckalhead]

And if the Casual gamer is as casual as they suggest, they shouldn't be expecting to be able to craft anything in the first week of the mod. take time, let the markets settle, let people discover what makes what.

Exactly. Not to mention that the casual gamer also has a lower chance of obtaining raid loot from any of the old raids as well. Seems to be on par with how long it might take them to loot an item on a raid. With the exception being that you can't buy raid items on the AH, while you can get ingredients and expediate the process in that manner.

[Shana]

Ok we finally get crafting and when we do of course it has to be made into a MASSIVE timesink geared towards people that spend 24/7 on this game.


Honestly, what did you think crafting is? If you look at almost every other MMO out there, crafting is basically just a grindtastic timesink. This is what we were asking for with crafting because it gives people something to do other than loot run and grind raids at cap.

Sure, we'll basically be grinding the new raid now for crafting components but at least it gives the raid more life than 'run this in 20 minutes and collect your loot'. Hopefully it'll still be giving us stuff to do by the time new content is released. If it does, thats a huge success IMHO

[Knightrose]

The whole made for casual gaming notient needs to be completely thrown out the window. There has to be some time and EFFORT involved in obtaining the more powerful and rare items of the game. It is not impossible for someone who plays less then 15 hours a week to obtain the items they need in order to craft. In fact it is in all possible that someone who plays less then 15hours a week may even obtain ingredients quicker because everything is based off a random drop-rate. Are you more likely to? No, of course not. Should the system be suited to please those who play less? Absolutely not.

[lasra]

So far as I have noticed, the crafting items are a guaranteed drop in the 5 Vale quests at a rate of 1 or 2 + the Shav Stone. The rare encounter chests have a lower drop rate, and you only get 1 item (so far as I have looted to date), but they are definitely out there. The shards seem to drop from anywhere, as I got a few hundred of the yellow shards from a chest in the Reaver raid, and a few hundred of the black ones from the desert.

Yeah, its gonna take a while to get the items to make stuff, but thats the whole point, I think. Even with bad rolls, you still have to run the raids 20 times to get your choice of stuff. 2 1/2 days between raids run on a tight schedule is still almost 2 months of game time to get the choice you want, so I don't see that it is too much difference, really. Give it more than a week though, before dooming the whole system.

[lasra]

As far as drawbacks are concerned, however, this is an absolute coup for the plat farmers, as they now will probably throw all their energy into grinding for components and selling them for tons on the AH. I would not expect to see components in lots of 20 for less than 1 million GP, similar to the price of dragon scales.

Oh well... someone is obviously buying from them as the problem has not gone away.

[captain1z]

This is not crafting.


Its the pro-type model for crafting.... yes.


after its been in play for a time and they have looked at it work .... seen the pros and cons of, we may very well get something with only a passing resemblance to this.

Its not the final product, its not crafting yet, its a raid mechanic.... prototype for crafting.


If you dont like the raid mechanic, fine................ but dont be misled/misinformed

This is not crafting as they intend to release it.

To early to complain about it yet.

[Missing_Minds]

Ok we finally get crafting and when we do of course it has to be made into a MASSIVE timesink geared towards people that spend 24/7 on this game.

*snip *

IMO crafting was a great addition but needs to be implemented differently.

Well.. right now yeah.. crafting is a royal pain. But is the crafting we have right now the end all be all for the game? Nope. This is only the beginning. Player version 1 if you will. I expect it to be changed if not added to dramaticaly in the future (aka 6.1 is my hope)

So for now.. yeah, this form of crafting is a major pain in the tuukis. But, I personally will be holding out on judgment on the system as a whole when we have more of the whole system.

[Vormaerin]

Exactly. This is a raid loot mechanic. There is no more or less reason for casual players to complain about this than there is for them to complain about the raid loot rarity in other raids.

In future mods, general crafting will be rolled out. It will look something like this: namely gathering components on quests, figuring out recipes, and dumping the stuff in a deus ex machina device to get what you want. The alternative is to require the character to spend feats and xp (p&p style) or tack on all kinds of un D&D ish skills that need to be developed.

I can see why a raid only mechanic would bum out crafting oriented casual players, if this was the actual end product instead of a prototype. But I am a bit confused about what folks want from crafting, if not a timesink (ie something to do when not questing). If it didn't take up any time, how would it give you something to do when not questing?

I also wish folks would chill out on the "OMG, the plat farmers will benefit" hysterics. Who cares? TURBINE has an interest in plat farmers not making money off their work and in stopping their in game spam. But as players, just ignore them. They aren't impacting your gameplay. This isn't a pvp game where someone can cash buy a SOS to humilate you in the arena with. You wouldn't be buying the components anyway, because if the plat farmers weren't producing a bazillion of them for their dastardly plans, they wouldn't be on the auction house anyway (scarcity).

[Barhai]

Looks like you're bashing the system before having really tried it:
-you need 12 components to make a green steel item and 5 stones. The stone is a guaranteed drop at the end of each vale quest, you're also guaranteed 1-3 components/quest, and components drop in the rare chest in the vale. By the time you have done the five quests to be raid ready, you will have the components to make what you want (might need to trade with guildies, but you'll have enough components).
-to upgrade the green steel item once, you need to get the raid components, the drop rate on those seems pretty good so far, not enough to make something on your first run, but farming the first part is easy, and recharging the power cells can be done by sacrificing vendor trash items. Again you'll need 12 items (+the power cell).After the first upgrade the items are already nice.
-Further upgrade requires 12 more components...

So with the number of chests in the raid and assuming some trade with guildies, it's going to take the same number of raid than before to get something...




Ok we finally get crafting and when we do of course it has to be made into a MASSIVE timesink geared towards people that spend 24/7 on this game.
As I see it (prove me wrong if I am) You have to run the vale quests however many 20-30 times each to get 5 small items (chipmunk funk or some ****) to combine to make 1 special item then you need 20-30 of the special items to make a weapon or clothing, lets not forget the possibility the items can be destroyed if not mixed properly? (according to the pop up I was given, this is incorrect and some items may have been destroyed). Oh and lets not forget you have to have a certain power cell. Dont you have to combine so many of these as well to make a more powerful cell to use for the finished item or some ****? If you mix wrong dont you have to start over.
So how was this implemented to be geared towards everyone?. Not all of us play 24/7 we have jobs and lives and all of our freetime isnt dedicated to DDO. We pay the same price each month regardless how much we sit in front of our computers so we should get the same chances to get items from crafting also.

IMO crafting was a great addition but needs to be implemented differently.

[Knightrose]

Looks like you're bashing the system before having really tried it:
-you need 12 components to make a green steel item and 5 stones. The stone is a guaranteed drop at the end of each vale quest, you're also guaranteed 1-3 components/quest, and components drop in the rare chest in the vale. By the time you have done the five quests to be raid ready, you will have the components to make what you want (might need to trade with guildies, but you'll have enough components).
-to upgrade the green steel item once, you need to get the raid components, the drop rate on those seems pretty good so far, not enough to make something on your first run, but farming the first part is easy, and recharging the power cells can be done by sacrificing vendor trash items. Again you'll need 12 items (+the power cell).After the first upgrade the items are already nice.
-Further upgrade requires 12 more components...

So with the number of chests in the raid and assuming some trade with guildies, it's going to take the same number of raid than before to get something...

This is the point some others are trying to make as well. A lot of players are throwing down their hats like Spanish Bull-fighting fans before they even have an understanding of what effort is required of them to succeed. Like, Kindergarden ended man! *bites his thumb*

[Lorien_the_First_One]

/agree 100%

Of course its going to be a grind. Look at crafting in other MMOs. It takes a long time to level your skill up enough to make high end stuff, not to mention having to shell out in game cash to buy stuff you can't craft yourself but is a needed componant. Would you prefer to be skinning a million boars to get a high enough crafting level to make something good instead of being able to run quests, gain XP and loot chests along the way to gethering the goods needed?

IMO, this is one of the better crafting set-ups out there.

I would prefer the D&D spell point crafting rules. Limited amounts of crafting, but easy to do without a time sink effect for those of us with IQs above 90 who don't want to "rinse and repeat" 1000 times for results.

[MysticRhythms]

I rather like the system so far. I'd just like to see ingredients dropping in older quests too - to give them some more life.

[Knightrose]

I rather like the system so far. I'd just like to see ingredients dropping in older quests too - to give them some more life.

You know I agree. At so far I have seen them drop in older quests. But nothing below lvl9. I guess it would be to easy to farm? Got me.

Lorien: My IQ is far above 90. I don't consider this a grind. I mean think about it. You're doing the same exact thing you were before mod6. Questing for loot. Except now you get ingrediences too. You havnt' applied yourself anymore then you did before to accept more gain. Gain has been given to you free of charge.

[studentx]

I really dont care how its setup to be done as long as EVERYONE gets the same chance to make items. Not just power gamers. Sorry Im not going to be jobless or lack a social life to be able to grind for a week straight just so I can make a useful in game item. Give casual players the same chance to make items in a decent timeframe.

Let the power players and grinders in your guild figure it out. They've got the cash and the time. Collect your ingredients, run the quests one at a time and the vale open area boxes drop some crafting stuff as well. Breath, relax, no go test your reflex save in the new trap dcs and come back with your previous attitude. :D

The only probably I have with it is that you have to wait until you've done the vale quests to start with basic crafting IE binding items to you.

[MysticTheurge]

I rather like the system so far. I'd just like to see ingredients dropping in older quests too - to give them some more life.

I suspect once we move from "prototype crafting" to real crafting, you'll need ingredients from older quests too. I mean, the one non-raid recipe we have already uses ingredients from an older quest.

[Shaamis]

Well.. right now yeah.. crafting is a royal pain. But is the crafting we have right now the end all be all for the game? Nope. This is only the beginning. Player version 1 if you will. I expect it to be changed if not added to dramaticaly in the future (aka 6.1 is my hope)

So for now.. yeah, this form of crafting is a major pain in the tuukis. But, I personally will be holding out on judgment on the system as a whole when we have more of the whole system.

I agree with you 100%

As an artist, your first sketch is nowhere near what the final product will look like, it is merely your thought down on paper (or MMO in this case)

No plan, however much testing, can withstand a detailed critique, once it has been released. I am watching, waiting, and collecting my ingredients.

Patiently for now.

[CSFurious]

i am not a trailblazer

i will keep on patiently playing & will probably start crafting in a few months


OP is absolutely correct(about the target crowd anyway).

This is geared to plat farmers and powergamers.

The Casual Gamers were the ones asking for crafting predominantly. This alienates us.

Then again, we should let them figure out all the recipes and then traverse the Shroud afterward. Patience is a virtue. Save those components.

[MysticRhythms]

You know I agree. At so far I have seen them drop in older quests. But nothing below lvl9. I guess it would be to easy to farm? Got me.

I've seen shard pieces, but have you actually seen things like ingredients? I hope so.

And I gather that if they only appear in level 9+ quests, it's because of the power of the items they generate. I can see them implementing such ingredients across all levels as long as the items crafted are level-appropriate to the quests where characters would find them.

Or do something like with the dragonshards - you just need that many more of a "lower level shard" to make a higher level one.

That would make the crafting useful from levels 1-16.

But right now, it's fun to find stuff while doinghe things we typically do - XP, explorers, rares and cash.

[liamfrancais]

As far as drawbacks are concerned, however, this is an absolute coup for the plat farmers, as they now will probably throw all their energy into grinding for components and selling them for tons on the AH. I would not expect to see components in lots of 20 for less than 1 million GP, similar to the price of dragon scales.

Oh well... someone is obviously buying from them as the problem has not gone away.

This may very well be the case but I don't know about you but my plat pile has been dwindling quickly with the new improved all you stuff is broken death penalty. If we start getting spams to buy plat at increasingly higher prices then it will be safe to say the plat farmers have won. Off topic can someone tell me why returned mail goes in you unconfirmed mailbox even though it says your characters name and the rub is you can't be friends with yourself, hmm if you are in a guild I wonder if then it will go in confirmed.

[Bombalo]

My only problem with crafting at this point is you have to be level 14-16 to participate and you cant make anything other then high end loot. The problem is that unless you have a ton of time to devote to it you are S.O.L.

[Dane_McArdy]

It is not the grind people are making it.

Each quest gives you one of the five stones you need. It could be worse, it could be a chance to get the stone. Thankfully, they didn't go that route. And each end chest has given me an ingrediant and a stone. I've gotten lilies and husks and twigs and such in the vale. The one thing I have yet to see is Khyber shards. But the dev's said they are going to up the drop rate. And those can come from outside the module.

So running the quests a few times each will give you all you need. From what I understand, you can run parts 1 and 2 of the raid over and over, with no raid timer. That kicks in for parts 1, 2, and 3 once you complete part three, but doesn't stop you from doing parts 4 and 5.

People need to keep one thing in mind. From what I have been reading you can't just make ANY kind of item you want. People think you can put any effect of any kind on any thing you want, and I don't think that is what is going on. I think you are limited to certain effects, stats and items, there seems to be weapons and wearables that you can make.

It doesn't seem to be some, whatever you want sort of thing.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I hate crafting as implimented.

I hate the idea of grinding to find ingredients to make ingredients to make something to add ingredients to to make something better....etc

The D&D system is far superior to any of this garbage.

That said...for those of you who like this grind for parts...you might want to check out the "what good are gems" thread where a producer basically says gems will be for crafting and since gems drop at all levels, there's your low level crafting in all likelihood.

[Dane_McArdy]

My only problem with crafting at this point is you have to be level 14-16 to participate and you cant make anything other then high end loot. The problem is that unless you have a ton of time to devote to it you are S.O.L.

But in fairness, the quests are level 16. The vale is listed as level 12-21 (Which is a hint that level 20 won't be the last level, I assume). We took a level 13 with us on a hard run.

So if you are under level 12, then the vale and all the quests for module 6 are, even on normal going to be very hard for those players, and the crafting won't be a concern for them at that point, though you can certainly work in the vale, getting ready for the quests and such.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It is not the grind people are making it.

Each quest gives you one of the five stones you need. It could be worse, it could be a chance to get the stone. Thankfully, they didn't go that route. And each end chest has given me an ingrediant and a stone. I've gotten lilies and husks and twigs and such in the vale. The one thing I have yet to see is Khyber shards. But the dev's said they are going to up the drop rate. And those can come from outside the module.

So running the quests a few times each will give you all you need. From what I understand, you can run parts 1 and 2 of the raid over and over, with no raid timer. That kicks in for parts 1, 2, and 3 once you complete part three, but doesn't stop you from doing parts 4 and 5.

You say its not a grind, and then go on to explain how to grind for it.

[Pfamily]

This is not crafting.


Its the pro-type model for crafting.... yes.


after its been in play for a time and they have looked at it work .... seen the pros and cons of, we may very well get something with only a passing resemblance to this.

Its not the final product, its not crafting yet, its a raid mechanic.... prototype for crafting.


If you dont like the raid mechanic, fine................ but dont be misled/misinformed

This is not crafting as they intend to release it.

To early to complain about it yet.
Yup...

[Dane_McArdy]

You say its not a grind, and then go on to explain how to grind for it.

And you are just being arguementive for the sake that you don't like something. Also, this isn't CRAFTING. It's a game mechanic for these quests and raid. But it gives us an idea on what to expect from crafting. You don't have to do anything in the 12 to see that. You can bind and make Syberis shards and the Adimantine ritual with never entering the vale.

That is what we will see from crafting going forward.

I said, It's not the grind people are making it. I never said it wasn't a grind.

You always get a stone at the end. You get ingrediants most of the time. It's not like shield pieces or tome pieces for the orchard, which don't drop more often then they do drop. If you run the 5 quests 2-3 times, and the vale for rare encounters a few time, you will get what you need to start your item. I've run all 5 quest at least once, and 3 of them a second time. I have run the vale a handful of times, I don't have all the explorer or rares. But I already have my Signent stone, my ore of Travail, and all I need is some funk and pebbles to make the other two items, the oil and taper, and ta da, I have my item ready, for once I do the first phase of the raid, which I am also ready for. In fact, I will most likely have two green steel items ready once I start working on the raid. Which seems pretty easy on normal up to phase 3, from what I've read.

I don't know how many times I've run Ghost and still don't have a single shield piece from that quest. And I have no tome pieces, even though I've run the request raids a few times. Oh and it took a while to get the sigil for the preraid quests. How many times did you run the Orchard for taps?

Module 6 is not the grind module 5 is. You are required to do the quests so many times with a hope the item you need will drop. The drop rate of the items needed is higher then in module 5.

[MysticRhythms]

The D&D system is far superior to any of this garbage.


For tabletop? I agree. For an MMO? *yawn*

Do you really want to wait 36 days of crafting time to make a Headband of Intellect +6?

[Beherit_Baphomar]

I was one that said they should put crafting in. As an alternative to questing...

...guess we'll keep on questing huh?

[Dane_McArdy]

For tabletop? I agree. For an MMO? *yawn*

Do you really want to wait 36 days of crafting time to make a Headband of Intellect +6?

Of course people won't want that. All the stuff you can gloss over in paper, such as time it takes, cost and XP, doesn't translate to paper.

Not to mention skills needed and feats, and it would be limited to primarly casters and such. I'm sure someone out there had a fighter that made magical arms and armor or what not, and just had some wizard/cleric just cast the spells they needed.

So crafting needs to be accessable to everyone. Perhaps in the future there will be feats that allow better items, or whatever. I can't ever see them requiring skills, because that has to come with a one time skill respect. And saddly, one time, will never be one time, the moment you open the door once, you get twice as many people banging for it to be opened a second time, then 4 times as many for a thrid time...then a permanent feature...

[Bombalo]

But in fairness, the quests are level 16. The vale is listed as level 12-21 (Which is a hint that level 20 won't be the last level, I assume). We took a level 13 with us on a hard run.

So if you are under level 12, then the vale and all the quests for module 6 are, even on normal going to be very hard for those players, and the crafting won't be a concern for them at that point, though you can certainly work in the vale, getting ready for the quests and such.

Yes but that is my point by saying it isnt a concern for lower level players alienates about 50% of the player bases characters. Hence "crafting" is no where near something that can be achieved by all level of players (as it was billed to begin with).

[Dane_McArdy]

Yes but that is my point by saying it isnt a concern for lower level players alienates about 50% of the player bases characters. Hence "crafting" is no where near something that can be achieved by all level of players (as it was billed to begin with).

The items from the vale are not really crafting. They are unique to those quests and raids. The items only drop there, and can only be used in the eldritch devices in there, not stone of change, and are limited in what they offer for upgrades, though those are varied and powerful, as level 16 items should be.

The only thing we have of crafting in the game right now are the stones of change. Those require fragments, Khyber and Siberys, Adimantine Ore, and your item. Everyone, regardless of level can do these, without having to enter the vale.

You can make Siberys shards to respect feats. Or sell. You can make Khyber shards, to bind and attune your items, to prevent perma damage. And you can make them harder to resist taking damage.

Those are crafting, and as they have said, more will be coming down the road in terms of what you can do with the Stone of Change.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see more older items like the ore get used in these.

So 50% of the players aren't being alienated from crafting if they aren't high enough level to successful complete the quests for Module 6.

[Bombalo]

So your saying that giving content to only 50% of the player base when releasing the supposed mod to revive the game (remember they stopped giving regular content updates so they could release major content updates every month) is a success????????

[MysticTheurge]

The D&D system is far superior to any of this garbage.

It's also entirely unreasonable to expect that kind of crafting here.

D&D crafting is, for the most part, a "magic item store." You put in X, Y and Z and get out the item you want.

If they wanted us to be able to do that, they'd have stores that sold those items.


Yes but that is my point by saying it isnt a concern for lower level players alienates about 50% of the player bases characters. Hence "crafting" is no where near something that can be achieved by all level of players (as it was billed to begin with).

We don't have "crafting." We have "prototype crafting" which is in the game in place of a set of static raid loot items for a high-level raid. So yes, it's for high-level characters.

Crafting, when it's added, will presumably be for a wider level range of characters.

Saying this prototype crafting system alienates 50% of the player base would be the same as saying the addition of Gianthold and the Raid there alienates those same people. Mod 6, and the prototype crafting system it includes, is high-level content.

[Dane_McArdy]

So your saying that giving content to only 50% of the player base when releasing the supposed mod to revive the game (remember they stopped giving regular content updates so they could release major content updates every month) is a success????????

That makes no sense. They didn't give content to just 50% of the player base.

If you don't have a character that is high enough to take on the new content, say because your characters are around 8-10, that would mean you can't take on other content, such as Module 5. Sure you can run the orchard, but I belive the quests you have to be level 11 to get any XP out of them.

Level 12' can run the Vale, but the quests are to high a level.

Which only means in time, your characters will level up and be able to do the content. Because as it is now, if you are max character is only between level 8 and 12, there is still much for your character to do and experience, so it's not like there is nothing to do for those players. All it means is that most likely, new content will always be added before that player can get to it.

They are always going to have new, because of the time they play, and never have to worry that they are getting bored doing the same stuff some players experience.

The crafting in the raid is exclusive to that content. And just like any named item or raid loot that is exclusive to raids and quests, you can't have it till you can do those quests and raids yourself. No difference here, just they made the reward for this module flexiable and customizable.

[Bombalo]

I think the main problem is what you keep saying Dane....we didnt get crafting. Period...end of story. We got a new raid loot mechanic...saying we got crafting is a flat out lie..

[Dane_McArdy]

We don't have "crafting." We have "prototype crafting" which is in the game in place of a set of static raid loot items for a high-level raid. So yes, it's for high-level characters.

Crafting, when it's added, will presumably be for a wider level range of characters.

Saying this prototype crafting system alienates 50% of the player base would be the same as saying the addition of Gianthold and the Raid there alienates those same people. Mod 6, and the prototype crafting system it includes, is high-level content.

We do have some crafting that is availble to everyone, the Stone of Change, which doesn't require any exploring in the vale, as everything you need comes from the rest of the game, or black anvil mines, and I'm sure we will see more added over time to these Stones that comes from existing content.

[Dane_McArdy]

I think the main problem is what you keep saying Dane....we didnt get crafting. Period...end of story. We got a new raid loot mechanic...saying we got crafting is a flat out lie..

Guess, what, no one at Turbine said we were getting crafting. Not even hinted at it. We got told we are seeing the crafting prototype, as so many people have pointed out.

And yet they did put something in in terms of crafting which you keep ignoring, the stone of change, that is accessable to anyone any level, using stuff that comes from the current content, not the new content.

That is part of crafting.

People talk about crafting in the new content, because who's going to continually call it prototype raid loot crafting?

[Bombalo]

Your forgetting one thing here dane...other than existing ore and dragon shards (not fragments) you cant get any of the necessary items to do the "crafting" that your talking about unless you run the new content (hence no low level crafting).

[jacobzzz]

by the time you finish the five quests you should have what you need maybe a couple items less so lets say 7 quests: should be no more than 7 hours.
the raid: in the first part there is a possible of 3 items to drop, it takes 20 mins to do, so lets say it takes you 7 runs: 2 hours and 20 mins.
in the second and third part there are a possible of 3 chests that drop items and 2 ingredients can drop in each chest: so by the 7 runs you will have more than enough and these two parts should only take around 30 minutes. 3 1/2 hours
So, in 12 and a half hours you should have more than enough items to upgrade your greensteel weapon twice... time consuming? i think not, just depends on whether or not you can get solid group/raid groups together. As for the last upgrade... well it should take some time but there are two ingredient chest which drop 1 ingredient each... 6 runs ideally, probably more around 8 or 9, which prolly will take some time but not the endless hours you all seem to be talking about

[Milolyen]

Your forgetting one thing here dane...other than existing ore and dragon shards (not fragments) you cant get any of the necessary items to do the "crafting" that your talking about unless you run the new content (hence no low level crafting).


One thing you are forgetting ... this is not really "crafting" but a prototype for it. The "crafting" that was implemented with mod 6 is basically create your own raid loot and is kind of a teaser to the way that they ARE going to implement crafting. They put in the ore and shards so that we can bind and harden our existing gear. They had said that crafting will be fully implemented in a future update(or mod ... don't have exact quote) and that this is just a sample of what is yet to come.

Given that this "crafting" is basically create your own raid loot ... of course it is going to come from the raid and its prequests.

Milolyen

[Dane_McArdy]

Your forgetting one thing here dane...other than existing ore and dragon shards (not fragments) you cant get any of the necessary items to do the "crafting" that your talking about unless you run the new content (hence no low level crafting).

No, you just don't understand. Because you don't seem to understand how the new content works.

If you got any of those items, you wouldn't be able to use them in the Stone of Change. They only work in the new content, and with certain eldritch devices.

Basically, the end reward for the raid you make as you complete the content. That's what all the items are for, and nothing else.

It's like sigil pieces for the abbot raid, only come from Module 5. Shield and tome and taps only come from Module 5. This is exactly the same mechanic, only you get choices on how to combine the items for you. Unlike module 5, where after collecting all the pieces you need, you get a choice of 1 of X items.

However, this method is also how we are going to see crafting. Collect certain items, combine in differnet ways, to make new items.

I bet the next thing we see will be the ability to make admantine items and armor, from the BAM ores. And then we will be able to upgrade to have things like resists, stat increase, and more. So you can make say, a sword, and then as you progress, collect ingrediants to add effects. All of which will come from all existing conent. But you won't see the stuff you get from Module 6 being available outside of module 6.

[uncus2]

As far as drawbacks are concerned, however, this is an absolute coup for the plat farmers, as they now will probably throw all their energy into grinding for components and selling them for tons on the AH. I would not expect to see components in lots of 20 for less than 1 million GP, similar to the price of dragon scales.

Oh well... someone is obviously buying from them as the problem has not gone away.

Yup - the crafting system is set up perfectly for plat sellers. As an off-again, on-again casual player [I only subscribe when I know I will have time to play] I am nowhere near capped, but would love to be able to craft [as you could do in PnP -I Know "this isn't PnP!"]. This system means I will have to buy plat to afford to craft...

A better system would allow ingredients of ALL levels to fall and items of ALL levels to be crafted. All magic users and clerics should be able to scribe scrolls as a free feat...make one of the ingredients per formula rare and it's all good. By rare, I mean Icon of Khyber rarity [One per 4-6 dungeons in my experience]. All other crafting are Feats available at certain levels [potions at 3rd, I recall]. It would have given something to uncapped, untwinked characters.

I know DDO wants to keep their base of players, but offering something to lower levels AS WELL AS [not in place of] capped or nearly capped levels would allow new people to actually join the subscriber base and not feel alienated. Or does LOTRO keep DDO afloat?

[Bombalo]

We do have some crafting that is availble to everyone, the Stone of Change, which doesn't require any exploring in the vale, as everything you need comes from the rest of the game, or black anvil mines, and I'm sure we will see more added over time to these Stones that comes from existing content.

Hummmmm...I believe you call this crafting...you happen to look at any of the formulas yet....to bind an item you require shard fragments...only avaliable in the new area...to perform the addy ore ritual you require soul gems (only attainable by using the level 8 spell trap the soul which requires more fragments.....so um pick a point and stay on it.......either we have crafting (which you state here) or we have a new raid loot mechanic.

[MysticTheurge]

shard fragments...only avaliable in the new area...

Well, see, there's the problem.

You've been misinformed.

[Dane_McArdy]

Hummmmm...I believe you call this crafting...you happen to look at any of the formulas yet....to bind an item you require shard fragments...only avaliable in the new area...to perform the addy ore ritual you require soul gems (only attainable by using the level 8 spell trap the soul which requires more fragments.....so um pick a point and stay on it.......either we have crafting (which you state here) or we have a new raid loot mechanic.

Then you haven't read correctly, or misunderstood.

First, Khyber fragments for soul gems drop outside the new content, and they are going to up the drop rate, and it also seems it's for quests level 9 and up. But they drop everywhere. They are also able to be sold on the AH, so if a level 4 wants to make an item harder, they could always by a soul gem.

So, you can bind and attune (in the same ritual) any item with Khyber shards. This stops the item from taking any perma damage from any non death damage. Say, a rust monster. There is no level limit or need to enter the vale for this, as everything you need comes from anywhere in the game.

The adamantine ritual requires a soul gem, but getting one of those isn't exclusive to the new content either, just harder, since it does require a level 15 wizard/sorcerer.

[Borrigain]

If crafting is susposed to be a time sink for me to play around with when not adventuring......

It ain't working that way.

Well, unless all I want to do is make blanks and Tier 1 items.

Problem is, trying to use the devices in Invasion and after puzzles is frustrating. Why? 3 reasons mainly.
1) Everyone is buffed for next part and want to get to next stage (party lacks patience to let me stand there and try combos).
2) by this time my pack is full and I have to take out a item from ingredient bag to put in inventory to then place in device. I'm seeming to spend more time taking out/putting in, finding what I can destroy to make room, while the whole party is waiting (aaarrggg!).
And most importantly 3) I have to be with a raid group to even get there to try things. It would be nice to be able to do this "crafting" of combos while solo just killing time.

So, main problem to me is making Tier 2 and 3 items. I feel way too rushed to enjoy the "puzzle" of figuring out combos.

That said, solution time.

problem 1) not much you can do. So we'll just ignore this as you can't program patience.
problem 2) let me be able to drag the ingredient out of the bag directly into the device. Or when it goes into the device, take it out of my inventory so I have room to pull more stuff out.
problem 3) somehow make the other devices available to me. Like after you have completed those stages of raid, the device chick in Meridia can "teleport" me to that one device I want to visit (that I have already visited). And I can recall back to Meridia when I'm done.

As it stands now, it's just too much of a PITA to try to get a whole group together just so I can kill some time trying to figure out recipies.

Any other ideas?
Borr.

[krud]

So your saying that giving content to only 50% of the player base when releasing the supposed mod to revive the game (remember they stopped giving regular content updates so they could release major content updates every month) is a success????????

The 50% of the player base that hasn't got to high level still has plenty of content to go thru, even without crafting (not to mention figuring out the game, classes and builds in general). The 50% of the player base that has got to high level doesn't have as much content to choose from, so the added "grind" has more impact for them.

[Aeneas]

We do have some crafting that is availble to everyone, the Stone of Change, which doesn't require any exploring in the vale, as everything you need comes from the rest of the game, or black anvil mines, and I'm sure we will see more added over time to these Stones that comes from existing content.

Obviously you haven't tried to get the soul gem component for this spell that you say everyone is able to acquire - i bet 10 people game-wide haven't done an adamantine ritual yet.

You need ten thousand fragments for the CHANCE to successfully trap 10 earth elementals (of CR 6 or higher i believe) and you also need a level 15 wizard or 16 sorc to cast the spell for you.

[uncus2]

Then you haven't read correctly, or misunderstood.

First, Khyber fragments for soul gems drop outside the new content, and they are going to up the drop rate, and it also seems it's for quests level 9 and up. But they drop everywhere. They are also able to be sold on the AH, so if a level 4 wants to make an item harder, they could always by a soul gem.

So, you can bind and attune (in the same ritual) any item with Khyber shards. This stops the item from taking any perma damage from any non death damage. Say, a rust monster. There is no level limit or need to enter the vale for this, as everything you need comes from anywhere in the game.

The adamantine ritual requires a soul gem, but getting one of those isn't exclusive to the new content either, just harder, since it does require a level 15 wizard/sorcerer.

"A level 4 could buy a soul gem" - perhaps an alt could, a "main" couldn't come close to affording it! [Without buying plat...]

It appears that what has happenned is that Turbine has mislead more than a few of us by calling this "crafting" when what it really is, is more l33t raid loots. I resubbed for a month to try the crafting, guess I should have waited [noob!] Such deception, whether intentional or not, is NOT the way to maintain/build a player-base!

[wamjratl1]

So far as I have noticed, the crafting items are a guaranteed drop in the 5 Vale quests at a rate of 1 or 2 + the Shav Stone. The rare encounter chests have a lower drop rate, and you only get 1 item (so far as I have looted to date), but they are definitely out there. The shards seem to drop from anywhere, as I got a few hundred of the yellow shards from a chest in the Reaver raid, and a few hundred of the black ones from the desert.

Yeah, its gonna take a while to get the items to make stuff, but thats the whole point, I think. Even with bad rolls, you still have to run the raids 20 times to get your choice of stuff. 2 1/2 days between raids run on a tight schedule is still almost 2 months of game time to get the choice you want, so I don't see that it is too much difference, really. Give it more than a week though, before dooming the whole system.

Yup. I saw shard fragments dropping in Delera's the other night. So you can start collecting those waaaaaay before you get to the Vale. Of course, I didn't get any...:(

[Dane_McArdy]

First, Turbine didn't call it crafting. If you had actually read what they said, we are seeing the prototype to crafting and the first stages.

Actually, whats the point in trying to explain? You have your view, and if I keep trying to explain, your just not going to read or listen but just get madder.

[wamjratl1]

This may very well be the case but I don't know about you but my plat pile has been dwindling quickly with the new improved all you stuff is broken death penalty. If we start getting spams to buy plat at increasingly higher prices then it will be safe to say the plat farmers have won.

This is confusing to me - I have run several quests since the new death penalty and have died PLENTY but still managed to profit off of every quest I've run. My repair bills are defintiely higher but nothing too shocking. This makes me wonder: Are people leaving stuff in chests? I see it all the time at all levels and it always surprises me how folks leave fairly decent, sellable itmes in chests. I have always been a "grab everything and sell it" kind of player and even try to pick up the copper and silver piles on the floor that folks leave behind from breakables. Honestly, it's how my characters have survived the lower and mid levels. I am a casual player so I don't have any raid loot and haven't pulled that many uber items to sell, etc. Maybe the new death penalty will have us all re-think our position and not taking free cash for granted.

As far as the current crafting sytem goes, it makes sense to me that casula players (like me) are not going to be the first to have their awesome crafted items as quickly as others. it's bee that way with loot since the beginning so I don't know why this would be any different. Sorry OP, but I do not agree with you. The system seems fine to me.

[Dane_McArdy]

This is confusing to me - I have run several quests since the new death penalty and have died PLENTY but still managed to profit off of every quest I've run. My repair bills are defintiely higher but nothing too shocking. This makes me wonder: Are people leaving stuff in chests? I see it all the time at all levels and it always surprises me how folks leave fairly decent, sellable itmes in chests. I have always been a "grab everything and sell it" kind of player and even try to pick up the copper and silver piles on the floor that folks leave behind from breakables. Honestly, it's how my characters have survived the lower and mid levels. I am a casual player so I don't have any raid loot and haven't pulled that many uber items to sell, etc. Maybe the new death penalty will have us all re-think our position and not taking free cash for granted.

As far as the current crafting sytem goes, it makes sense to me that casula players (like me) are not going to be the first to have their awesome crafted items as quickly as others. it's bee that way with loot since the beginning so I don't know why this would be any different. Sorry OP, but I do not agree with you. The system seems fine to me.

Their complaint is that the good crafting is exclusive to the new content. Which would be valid if it was true, but that isn't crafting, that is just a new mechanic, based on how crafting will work once it's fully put in the game.

It's the same as say Module 5, where you had to collect some items to get the final item. Only in this case, the item you get can be effected by the items you use to make it.

[CaptKurt]

crafting need to pretty much be available pretty much from day 1 in the game. Perhaps the crafting tables should not be available until you enter the market place, but you should be able to make low level items as well. The level of the components that drop should be keyed to the level of the encounter area and correspond to the level of the gear that you can make.

There should also be tutorial quests as soon as you hit the market place that deal with crafting. Allowing you to make a +2 item or something, with a lvl 3 requirement.

[MysticTheurge]

problem 2) let me be able to drag the ingredient out of the bag directly into the device. Or when it goes into the device, take it out of my inventory so I have room to pull more stuff out.

This seemed so obvious to me that I tried to do it with my Shavarath stones and was pretty disappointed when it didn't work.

What's the point of having a bag for ingredients if I have to move them back into my backpack to use them?

[GeneralDiomedes]

Lets see ...

You need a good delivery .. the setup .. a punchline and preferably a drunk audience.

[KoboldKiller]

The fact is they did not want a WoW clone or any other clone thus no crafting until now. This is just a taste of crafting. It's just like everything else give it time. Oh and since when isn't crafting a huge time sink? I have played many other rpg's that have had some sort of crafting and it was a huge time sink. So, people complain their is no crafting to give them a time sink. Then they complain that crafting is a huge time sink. Don't get it. Anyway, give it some time before we start slamming it. My biggest fear is DDO turning into a clone because players from other games come in here and complain that it's not what they are used to. DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A CLONE!!!!!! I don't care if crafting is a time sink, it's optional. Don't do it if you don't like it.

[Dane_McArdy]

This seemed so obvious to me that I tried to do it with my Shavarath stones and was pretty disappointed when it didn't work.

What's the point of having a bag for ingredients if I have to move them back into my backpack to use them?

I just don't sweat the minor stuff like that. I try and keep my inventory organized, so items end up in together.

They really need to fix the inventory.

[ArkoHighStar]

crafting need to pretty much be available pretty much from day 1 in the game. Perhaps the crafting tables should not be available until you enter the market place, but you should be able to make low level items as well. The level of the components that drop should be keyed to the level of the encounter area and correspond to the level of the gear that you can make.

There should also be tutorial quests as soon as you hit the market place that deal with crafting. Allowing you to make a +2 item or something, with a lvl 3 requirement.

I for one would not waste 5 miniutes crafting low level items except maybe potions and the like, that I can sell by the stack on the auction house. The fact is you can buy +1 weapons from shops, and +2 weapons drop from chests quite regularly, this is not a game where people fight for loot, everyone gets their own, so while a new player would not have +3 MFP at lvl 4, he certainly could find +2 FP in a chest or at the broker much easier than farming quests to craft one.
Crafting for crafting sake will not help the game, crafting that makes items of worth will help this game. To make low level crafting viable you would have to take all those items out of chests(or make the really rare) so that people will have to craft items. Otherwise you are going to have some guy who has crafted 20 sets of +2 FP with no customers

[MysticTheurge]

I just don't sweat the minor stuff like that.

Since UI design is about half of my job, it's hard not to notice the "minor" stuff like that (which, really, can make a major difference in how your product is received).


I try and keep my inventory organized, so items end up in together.

Oh, I do too. But it's still a pain to then make a bunch of empty slots, open my bag, move all my stones to my backpack, and then put them in the device when a good half of those steps should be unnecessary.

[VirieSquichie]

The whole made for casual gaming notient needs to be completely thrown out the window. There has to be some time and EFFORT involved in obtaining the more powerful and rare items of the game.

And why are so many people assuming that crafting should be geared towards the more powerful and rare items of the game?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being able to craft your own +1 flaming scimitar of lesser reptilian bane while you're still low enough level to occasionally see a kobold. Finding a lump of mithral and a few other ingredients and making yourself a +3 mithral chainmail. Deciding you really really need a set of gloves with +1 to dex and open locks +5, and making them yourself with a RR to match your race so you can use them earlier. It would be a welcome alternative to the astronomically overpriced auction house. Heck, why not have the option for crafted stuff to be bound unless you find the special added ingredient that will remove the binding from the recipe?

My point is, you don't need level 19 uberloot to be your only results of a crafting system.

[Vormaerin]

Its not going to be the only thing. The Stone of Change is the crafting system prototype. The Eldritch Device is a raid loot mechanic that has similar principles.

As for crafting lower end stuff, that's fine, though there isn't likely to be much market for it so doing a lot of it isn't that useful. If you can make really rare stuff like the aforementioned combination items, then it had best be equally difficult to make as to find. Or crafting is just going to be an even more annoying surge in the already monty haul nature of the game.

And if making the rare stuff is difficult, then we'll have the "OMG, you've added a grind" crowd up in arms. Crafting is pretty much doomed, really, since its trying to please mutually exclusive audiences.

I'm in the "I hope its not a power upgrade" faction.
l

[Dane_McArdy]

Its not going to be the only thing. The Stone of Change is the crafting system prototype. The Eldritch Device is a raid loot mechanic that has similar principles.

As for crafting lower end stuff, that's fine, though there isn't likely to be much market for it so doing a lot of it isn't that useful. If you can make really rare stuff like the aforementioned combination items, then it had best be equally difficult to make as to find. Or crafting is just going to be an even more annoying surge in the already monty haul nature of the game.

And if making the rare stuff is difficult, then we'll have the "OMG, you've added a grind" crowd up in arms. Crafting is pretty much doomed, really, since its trying to please mutually exclusive audiences.

I'm in the "I hope its not a power upgrade" faction.
l

Finally someone else that gets it.

[thatguy]

I am new MMO's. This being my first one. I was drawn to it because I played PnP D&D many many moons ago. I don't plan on getting into WoW or any other MMO's simply because I don't have the time. From what I have read, this is a very early incarnation of crafting. I am going to hold judgment on it till it is fully implemented in a future mod.

Not flaming anyone, just my thoughts on the subject.

[Vinos]

Ok we finally get crafting and when we do of course it has to be made into a MASSIVE timesink geared towards people that spend 24/7 on this game.
As I see it (prove me wrong if I am) You have to run the vale quests however many 20-30 times each to get 5 small items (chipmunk funk and bong residue or some ****) to combine to make 1 special item then you need 20-30 of the special items to make a weapon or clothing, lets not forget the possibility the items can be destroyed if not mixed properly? (according to the pop up I was given, this is incorrect and some items may have been destroyed). Oh and lets not forget you have to have a certain power cell. Dont you have to combine so many of these as well to make a more powerful cell to use for the finished item or some ****? If you mix wrong dont you have to start over.
So how was this implemented to be geared towards everyone?. Not all of us play 24/7 we have jobs and lives and all of our freetime isnt dedicated to DDO. We pay the same price each month regardless how much we sit in front of our computers so we should get the same chances to get items from crafting also.

IMO crafting was a great addition but needs to be implemented differently.


Translation: I don't get to play as much as the powergamers and I am jealous of thier shiny toys.

[uncus2]

Translation: I don't get to play as much as the powergamers and I am jealous of thier shiny toys.

No, more like "let us make our own less shiny, but still shiny to us, toys"

I think I am seeing why DDO doesn't offer a Lifetime subscription offer like LOTRO - DDO doesn't plan on getting any new blood, it is just desparately trying to hold on to what subscribers it has.

Fooled me for a month by calling it "crafting" - if a real system is every introduced, I will probably try again. [Hah, Sucker!]
Nope, I won't let the screen door hit me...

[MysticTheurge]

Fooled me for a month by calling it "crafting"

Nice selective hearing you've got there.

It's "prototype crafting" that's what they've been calling it any time they even came close to calling it "crafting."

[uncus2]

From http://www.ddo.com/articles/945

"With Module 6: The Thirteenth Eclipse, Turbine is proud to introduce a new feature - an early version of Stormreach’s first crafting feature, called the Eldritch Device. The Eldritch Device allows players to create and upgrade items, and to create their own raid loot, using other items collected from their adventures! Much is still unknown about the devices, and their full potential and power remain a mystery. The greatest scholars in Stormreach are committed to studying these altars to find out more."

Nope, doesn't say "Raid Only"; does indicate more than one altar.

"Recipes are made up of up to five ingredients collected during your adventures, or manufactured from the items you’ve collected. We call these Raw and Manufactured ingredients. Many ingredients can be stored in the new “ingredient” bags introduced with Module 6, which work just like collectible bags. At first, you’ll need to collect a few Raw Ingredients, like pebbles, arrowheads, or chipmunk funk, to begin using the first Eldritch device in Meridia. Using these raw ingredients, you’ll manufacture higher level ingredients, like taper candles, oils, and ores. These are Manufactured Ingredients to be used in other recipes you’ll discover along the way."

Pebbles, arrowheads, chipmunk funk - do they sound like materials collected from high level MOBs? Vorpal bunny funk, maybe, chipmunk funk, no.

"For example, in the chest of each pre-raid dungeon, you’ll receive a Shavarath Stone of Might, Victory, Battle, Foresight or Strategy. Collect all five of these stones and you can combine them to create the Signet Stone. You’ll need a Signet Stone to create your first piece of raid equipment or weapon!"

Ok, no problem, I won't be making raid equipment. I didn't expect to be able to.

"Currently, there are several different types of Eldritch Devices, each one available to players as they progress through the raid and other areas of the game. Each device is made to accept different ingredients."

Hmmm...other areas of the game, made to accept different ingredients. Sounds to me like there will be different levels to the "early version crafting feature" which I so ignorantly read as "crafting".

"After you’ve created enough manufactured ingredients, you can use them to make weapons and iequipment. The items you make from manufactured ingredients are called “blanks”… in the new module, all blanks are green steel. Usually these are base items which you can upgrade later, but have some neat effects even before you upgrade them, such as increased dice damage! For this example, we’ll be creating a Warhammer!"

Ok, so I can't make potions or scribe scrolls yet - at least I can make base items. Example goes on to describe how to make a raid quality warhammer. I don't see any examples of just a warhammer +1, could this be Raid only?

"Other uses of the Eldritch Device

The Stones of Change

Lesser eldritch devices have also been discovered by the Twelve, called “Stones of Change”. While these stones lack the power of the eldritch devices of Meridia and The Shroud, a number of uses have been found thus far. These stones of change do not seem to require energy cells to power their recipes."

Less powerful devices - ok, good, not raid only... and they have recipes! No specifics of how to use those recipes are given, but that was covered pretty well above for raid gear. And look, they can do other neat tricks, too!


After you have read the article, is it so difficult to see why I thought that crafting and crafting of various levels or weapons and armor was being implemented in Mod 6? I guess you are correct - "early version crafting feature" is to crafting what "cheese food product" is to cheese.

[MysticTheurge]

After you have read the article, is it so difficult to see why I thought that crafting and crafting of various levels or weapons and armor was being implemented in Mod 6?

Uh, yeah. It still is pretty difficult.


An attuned item can have one line of Eldritch Rituals placed upon it. Thus far, the only ritual that the Twelve have found is called the Adamantine Ritual

...

In future modules, many more Eldritch Rituals will become available, but placing an Eldritch Ritual on an item will remove any others that are currently on the item.

That makes it pretty clear that the only thing you've got so far is the adamantine ritual.

You made a bunch of assumptions about what was being said, and now you're upset that your assumptions were incorrect. /shrug

[uncus2]

Look a little higher in the article: Eldritch Rituals [as well as combining shards and binding items] is listed as an OTHER use of an Eldritch Device. "Other" would indicate "in addition to" or "as an alternative to" the main function of the device, ie to create weapons and armor.

The only assumptions that I made were: that the other areas than the Raid areas would be of different levels, that chipmunk funk would not be a high level drop, and that someone replying to my posts would either read the entire article or at least the relevant areas that I highlighted. I must admit my initial enthusiam was due to seeing a post on another site about "Crafting coming to DDO!" I shall in the future remain pessimistic about any enhancements to DDO and refrain from resubscribing, thus sparing you any posts of my disappointment.

[Oreg]

Look a little higher in the article: Eldritch Rituals [as well as combining shards and binding items] is listed as an OTHER use of an Eldritch Device. "Other" would indicate "in addition to" or "as an alternative to" the main function of the device, ie to create weapons and armor.

The only assumptions that I made were: that the other areas than the Raid areas would be of different levels, that chipmunk funk would not be a high level drop, and that someone replying to my posts would either read the entire article or at least the relevant areas that I highlighted. I must admit my initial enthusiam was due to seeing a post on another site about "Crafting coming to DDO!" I shall in the future remain pessimistic about any enhancements to DDO and refrain from resubscribing, thus sparing you any posts of my disappointment.

From the onset, this game was never about crafting. If the lack thereof would cause you to refrain from resubscribing then you have been a fool for paying all along and waiting for it to come. Then again, you said you will remain pessimistic in the future so I am not sure what the whole "threat" about resubscribing was anyway.

Crafting as some have suggested should be implemented where you slowly work your way up tiers of experience making say level 1 potions and then all the way to level 10 potions would fail miserably in a game that is 2 years down the road and already has access to so many spells through potions, scrolls and wands at mostly cheap prices.

[uncus2]

From the onset, this game was never about crafting. If the lack thereof would cause you to refrain from resubscribing then you have been a fool for paying all along and waiting for it to come. Then again, you said you will remain pessimistic in the future so I am not sure what the whole "threat" about resubscribing was anyway.

Crafting as some have suggested should be implemented where you slowly work your way up tiers of experience making say level 1 potions and then all the way to level 10 potions would fail miserably in a game that is 2 years down the road and already has access to so many spells through potions, scrolls and wands at mostly cheap prices.

I have been away over a year and only resubbed because I had heard that "Crafting is Coming in Mod 6!" elsewhere. My foolishness was in resubbing as the Mod went live instead of waiting and watching the forums for the true story and not the spin.

I LOVE the idea of DDO, as I did of Ryzom, I am just disappointed in its current implementation.

[Oreg]

I have been away over a year and only resubbed because I had heard that "Crafting is Coming in Mod 6!" elsewhere. My foolishness was in resubbing as the Mod went live instead of waiting and watching the forums for the true story and not the spin.

I LOVE the idea of DDO, as I did of Ryzom, I am just disappointed in its current implementation.

No doubt.

Certainly should have waited to see if DDO's "crafting" was of a style that you would enjoy. Oh well, <$20 gone hopefully. Try EQ 2. They have a decent crafting system.

[Vinos]

The crafting system looks really cool(if a bit overpowered). My only beef is that it's kind of confusing.

[PhoenixRajoNight]

So you wanted crafting that could make the raid loot with less than a few hours worth of work?

THAT would be a joke.

Why does it have to make raid loot? Why cant i just make a lvl 2 Dwaven axe?. Collectibles couldve gotten around a crafting system completely as well, they could add a thing, that omg would let you pick what u got from collecting? Like being able to get +1 throwers of a random kind from the kobold in the harbor, why can't I just pick which ones I need.

OP is right, as far as crafting goes if theres an item i want that pops up in a recipe on the forums, if I can buy the components for it I will, otherwise its not worth the time for me. I can deal with non-raid loot just fine, yeah my equip is not uberleet, but atleast ive got some nice equip.

[PhoenixRajoNight]

No doubt.

Certainly should have waited to see if DDO's "crafting" was of a style that you would enjoy. Oh well, <$20 gone hopefully. Try EQ 2. They have a decent crafting system.

Best crafting system is WoW's, but the game itself blows.

[Forgren]

Those of you who like the new crafting system obviously don't get it and you play way too much. Most of the players are not power gamers and do not spend countless hours and days living in Eberron (get a life). You are to whom the system is geared. i play maybe 6 hours a week or 1.5-2 hrs at a whack. You are also the ones that have so many of the power items like banishers, paralyzers, vorpals, and disruptors you don't know what to do with them so you sell them on the auction for absurd amounts of GP. Of course you don't have a problem with the system. It suites you just fine. So until you have not played so much all the time you can't say something about it. Turbine, I hope you fix this in the full crafting system release. (preferably sooner)

It will take most of us several months to get enough materials to to make just one try. That's not worth it at all. Do you understand now people who-don't-get-it?

[Vesuvia]

Don't change a thing and if I am correct they plan on adding more rituals and possibilities. I would much rather be crafting super raid loot items then skinning boars and bears to make junk any day of the week. Casual player or power gamer it doesnt really matter you act like you have a set time limit where you can make your gear. If you play 15 hours a week then spend some of that time doing new raids and quests and before you know it you WILL have the items you need. If you spend minimal time in any game getting items to craft of course it will take you longer RL time to acquire the same equipment, but you will get it if you try. If I take a week or two off from the game and come back I still have exactly what I left with. What is the big deal???

Vesuvia Hellfyre ~ Thac0

[MysticTheurge]

Why does it have to make raid loot?

Because that's what this prototype crafting system does.

[geoffhanna]

My guess is that in the end, this will benefit the casual gamers like the OP more than powergamers.

Eventually the crazy prices for ingredients on the AH will stabilize and casual players will be able to afford them. With recipes already being accumulated here in the forums, soon it will be a relatively simple matter to pick what you want to have, purchase what you need to make it, and then succeed in the raid once to build it. The casual gamer ends up with a raid item way nicer than could be obtained previously.

IMHO anyway.

[GlassCannon]

My guess is that in the end, this will benefit the casual gamers like the OP more than powergamers.

Eventually the crazy prices for ingredients on the AH will stabilize and casual players will be able to afford them. With recipes already being accumulated here in the forums, soon it will be a relatively simple matter to pick what you want to have, purchase what you need to make it, and then succeed in the raid once to build it. The casual gamer ends up with a raid item way nicer than could be obtained previously.

IMHO anyway.

And without wasting much time. The Auction House is and always will be a joke if stupid people continue to try and sell things for over 1 million gold, so don't even consider that a factor.

As for these new quests, enough people drop from them taking too long that a casual gamer can get in on the

boss fight(one of the only ways for a true casual gamer to get the necessary items due to long quests a too few

shrines...), and nab one of the important items out of the final chest. Crafting won't be easy, but it will be

rewarding. As for powergamers, just let them burn their daylight hours decoding this mystery. They love it.

[xxDevlinxx]

Honestly, what did you think crafting is? If you look at almost every other MMO out there, crafting is basically just a grindtastic timesink. This is what we were asking for with crafting because it gives people something to do other than loot run and grind raids at cap.

Sure, we'll basically be grinding the new raid now for crafting components but at least it gives the raid more life than 'run this in 20 minutes and collect your loot'. Hopefully it'll still be giving us stuff to do by the time new content is released. If it does, thats a huge success IMHO

I agree somewhat - but honestly even us 10-14 hour a day gamers dont wanna run the same quests 10 times a day to get the ingredients needed for ONE item - it does seem a little much - maybe you can increase the drop rate of the ingredients or something so EVERYONE gets 2-3 ingredients from the chest

[samagee]

The whole made for casual gaming notient needs to be completely thrown out the window. There has to be some time and EFFORT involved in obtaining the more powerful and rare items of the game. It is not impossible for someone who plays less then 15 hours a week to obtain the items they need in order to craft. In fact it is in all possible that someone who plays less then 15hours a week may even obtain ingredients quicker because everything is based off a random drop-rate. Are you more likely to? No, of course not. Should the system be suited to please those who play less? Absolutely not.

Just as us casual players have stopped paying outrageous prices for things on the AH.

[The_Ick]

I don't see what all the hub-bub is about. The in game crafting isn't really crafting yet, it is a "test" for raid loot. I am sure once they release crafting it easier to gather and craft more common items. We can't really freak out on them until they actually impliment it. We don't know how common or uncommon the ingredients are going to be yet.

As for the raid loot, this is how i look at it. With the recent raid loot changes you have roughly a 1 in 6 chance of getting a peice of static raid loot. From my experience you will need to run this raid between 5-10 times (depending on your luck) to get the peices you need to make the item you want AND you don't even have to finish the raid. So yes, you have to put in a little more work to get a peice of raid loot, but you will end up with raid loot that you want instead of another docent (nothing against WF). So it is a trade off of sorts.

Not to mention, give it some time and people will be selling ingredients on the AH, so they will be even easier to come by.

Admittedly i was hoping for more of a resource driven crafting system then a Opening chest grind, but let's give them a chance before we trash their implimentation. If it is a pain when it comes out, then we hunt them down and make them eat vegetables. (Kidding)

(Man i sounds like a fanboy, i feel all wierd inside)
** walks away bewildered and scratching***

[Oreg]

Just as us casual players have stopped paying outrageous prices for things on the AH.

Every night on Ghallanda there are multiple groups LFM for the shroud - ALL NIGHT LONG! There is no reason why a casual player cant get yourself flagged in a PUG (plenty of those for all 5 quests also) and join one of these raids. Right now they are more plentiful than Reaver raids.

My point is you don't need to rely on the AH. 8-10 runs should net you 90% of what you need for the first 2 upgrades.

[sheldie]

Best crafting system is WoW's, but the game itself blows.

Star Wars Galaxies used to have an awesome crafting system, where the result depended on the quality of the raw materials and the quality of your equipment. Some parts could also be reverse engineered, that is, you loot an item and then the craftperson could work out how to build one. Very nice indeed. The only problem with it was that it more or less required a dedicated crafting toon and SOE would (at that stage) only allow 1 toon per server. Not sure what it's like now, I haven't played in about 2 years (about the same time DDO's been out, coincidence?).

[LOUDRampart]

I really dont care how its setup to be done as long as EVERYONE gets the same chance to make items. Not just power gamers. Sorry Im not going to be jobless or lack a social life to be able to grind for a week straight just so I can make a useful in game item. Give casual players the same chance to make items in a decent timeframe.

What is a decent timeframe?