cdemeritt
02-02-2008, 01:15 AM
Hello All,
I'm a fairly new player to DDO, but have managed to generate several characters and have been perplexed by the way some people run. I just want to pen my thoughts (OK Key my thoughts) about the roles of different people in a party. I also came across a statement in another thread today that stated that "this is YOUR role and you shouldn't be different" That is not what this thread is about and I know there are many different ways to run a quest, and how you build your particular toon is up to you. I just hope to provide some food for thought that might help someone think a little more about their roles and put together a better party.
The goal of the party and the responsibility of the whole party is to finish the quest, gain XP and/or loot, and survive with the minimal loss of life as possible. To this end there are many jobs within the party that need to be preformed.
Party Leader- since they are pretty important, I'll start here. Putting together a balanced party is very important. I recently was invited to a party to run S-T-K, I was playing my 5th lvl rogue, and jumped at the chance, all those traps at the end. Well after accepting the invite, I checked out the party, there were 2 other lvl 3 rogues, for a total of 3 rogues, 2 rangers and 1 paladin with my rogue being the only one above 4th lvl. No tanks, no Cleric, and no casters. I politely told the leader that they didn't really need a 3rd rogue, and suggested that they look for a tank or cleric, and left that party. did they take the advice? I don't know. Maybe they were successful. I just didn't feel it was a party that stood much hope. Knowing your quest is very helpful in putting together a party to run it.
It is also important to be strong as the leader. I've seen far too many parties fall apart or get divided by a non-responsive or weak leader. If you are the leader, you need to dictate the direction you wish the party to go. If you don't know the quest and wish another member of the party to be the guide, indicate to the party who the party is to follow. If you don't do this, sometimes it happens on it's own, but often you get 2 or 3 people fighting for control of the party and soon you have people running in very different directions and into trouble. I was in a quest I've done before, but due to a breakdown we got separated. I was trying to use my map to get back to everyone, but there was a arrow pointing to 1 person in the North, 1 pointing to the south, one east and one west. I was lost, and confused.
The leader needs to make clear the strategies to be played out. Are we fighting in the door, are we sneaking around, what/how do you want to have happen. But above all you need to listen to your party as well, and communicate.
Tanks- Tanks, you have a very important job to preform, Kill. The primary function of a tank on quests is to crush the enemy, thus protecting the party. Having run a dwarven tank, I know the power possessed by the Tank characters. A near invulnerability, massive mega kill power, make you sometimes forget that the rest of your party might not be so invulnerable, and can be quite squishy. So while you run into the middle of the room, all the enemy run around you and take out several members of your party before you can get aggro. Been there, Done that. You need to remember to protect your party, and sometimes that means shield blocking at a doorway and let the rangers shoot arrows over you. Don't get too far ahead of your party, you never know what mess you could get into, and if you are out of your healers range, don't blame them for your death.
Clerics- There are many ways to play a cleric, but for this I will use what I've observed to be what most people Expect from a cleric. The main role of a cleric in a party is to keep the party alive. most people expect that a cleric will heal them in battle. They also hope for buffs as well. that is not to say that a cleric can't do or use other things and spells. I've built my cleric to be a buffing healing cleric. I tried at first to be a battle cleric, but found that I would be too caught up in a battle to notice that a team member needed me. If you are a battle cleric, and don't intend to be the healer, you should let your party know this before entering the quest. I was running my dwarf tank, and was trying a new weapons arrangement, so I was checking the kill score just to see if there was an improvement in my kill count. I personally had taken out +70 enemies to the Party avg of 20, I slipped off a ledge, and got cornered. by the time it was over, I had 5 HP left. I asked for a heal. Nothing. I asked again, and the cleric who had almost full mana said no, as it would be a waste of her mana. next big battle took her out, because I was killed almost instantly, and was unable to stop the onslaught. If the cleric plays the healer, and keeps the tanks going, the tanks will keep you alive. also remember, if you are not attacking, you draw much less aggro.
Sorcerers and Wizards- You can be very effective in helping the tanks, either though Crowd Control, or attack spells. Just remember you don't do any good if you are dead. You, at your best, are soft and squishy, and your bones go crunch with one swing of a ogre club. Remember this as you run past your tanks. choose your spells wisely. getting aggro on several monsters at once can be deadly, and can make it difficult for a Tank to protect you. I've often seen monsters run right by my tank to get at the caster. Strategy is your best friend. Use doorways and tight spaces to your advantage. Put the firewall in the door so the tanks can hold the monsters in it. Scorching ray is a great spell, but useless against Blackbone Skellies, who are immune. once you find out that they are immune, casting it 6 more times isn't going to change that fact. Fire monsters usually are not affected by fire spells, and in some cases can be healed by them. Try something else. Mana managment is also key. if you run out, you become almost useless. save shrines when you can. Don't just hit the shrine as soon as you see it, yes you may be down to 70% of your total SP but you still have 70% to use. Also, if there are 3 tanks that are working 1 monster and they are not having problems with it, let the tanks take care of the monster. Sword swings don't run out, SP does. I can't count how many times my scorching ray doesn't leave my hands until the monster is already dead, wasting SP.
Rogues- your job is harder to define. you are the trap finder/door opener. But you are a squishy. There are many quests where I'm glad we have a rogue to disarm traps or to pick a lock. However playing these characters, I often find the role difficult to play. I feel the need to contribute more to the party, and that the few traps don't really justify my being there. This leads to my rushing into battles where I often get hurt bad. Some rogues are built strong and tough, others not so much. remember you can't warn of traps when your stuck in between a giants toes. know what you are capable of and play accordingly.
All others- know what you are capable of and play accordingly keeping in mind that you must protect the team above all else.
And Everyone- It is everyones responsibility to listen to each other. This includes the typed messages as well. If 4 people in the party Say "lets do this on Normal" and you jump in on "Elite" because that is what you want to do, well that's just plain rude. If you are told " Stop.. TRAP" by both text and voice, and to get killed by a trap, well that is your problem. If you Zerg and get killed, I as a cleric am not going to waste a rez scroll on you. If I'm buffing and you run away before I'm done, if you missed that haste or whatever, don't expect me to recast it.
Patience will save lives in this game. Strategy saves SP. Sticking together is important. waiting 2 minutes before jumping into a quest to allow the whole party to gather can make the difference between a easy mission and a difficult one. If the party wipes, wait for everyone to get back to full strength before trying again. if the monster took out all 6 people, what make you think you can get it by yourself? and communicate what your intentions are. If you AFK, let the party know this.
Also, try to time your visits to the shops to sell and buy things for before or after big quests. Nothing annoys me more than having everyone at the portal, waiting to start or during a multi-part quest and then have someone run to the market to sell or for some other purpose, then as they are almost back have someone else go AFK, then the first person go BRB, and run off again. This just puts a bad start to a mission. Ok, sometimes it is necessary to do this, but try to be ready to run the mission before joining a party.
Don't blame the cleric for everything. If the cleric says he's out of SP and you don't make an effort to get him to a shrine, it's not their fault you died. It is a good idea to not depend solely on your cleric for heals. Let them heal you in Battle, but help them conserve SP for when they need it by healing yourself when you can. Drinking that potion now might just save the SP needed to keep you going later. Don't expect that the cleric is going to spend all his money to buy rez scrolls and wands so you can Zerg. Always thank your cleric. If you want to Zerg, make sure you can take care of yourself.
Well I got that off my chest.
Chris
I'm a fairly new player to DDO, but have managed to generate several characters and have been perplexed by the way some people run. I just want to pen my thoughts (OK Key my thoughts) about the roles of different people in a party. I also came across a statement in another thread today that stated that "this is YOUR role and you shouldn't be different" That is not what this thread is about and I know there are many different ways to run a quest, and how you build your particular toon is up to you. I just hope to provide some food for thought that might help someone think a little more about their roles and put together a better party.
The goal of the party and the responsibility of the whole party is to finish the quest, gain XP and/or loot, and survive with the minimal loss of life as possible. To this end there are many jobs within the party that need to be preformed.
Party Leader- since they are pretty important, I'll start here. Putting together a balanced party is very important. I recently was invited to a party to run S-T-K, I was playing my 5th lvl rogue, and jumped at the chance, all those traps at the end. Well after accepting the invite, I checked out the party, there were 2 other lvl 3 rogues, for a total of 3 rogues, 2 rangers and 1 paladin with my rogue being the only one above 4th lvl. No tanks, no Cleric, and no casters. I politely told the leader that they didn't really need a 3rd rogue, and suggested that they look for a tank or cleric, and left that party. did they take the advice? I don't know. Maybe they were successful. I just didn't feel it was a party that stood much hope. Knowing your quest is very helpful in putting together a party to run it.
It is also important to be strong as the leader. I've seen far too many parties fall apart or get divided by a non-responsive or weak leader. If you are the leader, you need to dictate the direction you wish the party to go. If you don't know the quest and wish another member of the party to be the guide, indicate to the party who the party is to follow. If you don't do this, sometimes it happens on it's own, but often you get 2 or 3 people fighting for control of the party and soon you have people running in very different directions and into trouble. I was in a quest I've done before, but due to a breakdown we got separated. I was trying to use my map to get back to everyone, but there was a arrow pointing to 1 person in the North, 1 pointing to the south, one east and one west. I was lost, and confused.
The leader needs to make clear the strategies to be played out. Are we fighting in the door, are we sneaking around, what/how do you want to have happen. But above all you need to listen to your party as well, and communicate.
Tanks- Tanks, you have a very important job to preform, Kill. The primary function of a tank on quests is to crush the enemy, thus protecting the party. Having run a dwarven tank, I know the power possessed by the Tank characters. A near invulnerability, massive mega kill power, make you sometimes forget that the rest of your party might not be so invulnerable, and can be quite squishy. So while you run into the middle of the room, all the enemy run around you and take out several members of your party before you can get aggro. Been there, Done that. You need to remember to protect your party, and sometimes that means shield blocking at a doorway and let the rangers shoot arrows over you. Don't get too far ahead of your party, you never know what mess you could get into, and if you are out of your healers range, don't blame them for your death.
Clerics- There are many ways to play a cleric, but for this I will use what I've observed to be what most people Expect from a cleric. The main role of a cleric in a party is to keep the party alive. most people expect that a cleric will heal them in battle. They also hope for buffs as well. that is not to say that a cleric can't do or use other things and spells. I've built my cleric to be a buffing healing cleric. I tried at first to be a battle cleric, but found that I would be too caught up in a battle to notice that a team member needed me. If you are a battle cleric, and don't intend to be the healer, you should let your party know this before entering the quest. I was running my dwarf tank, and was trying a new weapons arrangement, so I was checking the kill score just to see if there was an improvement in my kill count. I personally had taken out +70 enemies to the Party avg of 20, I slipped off a ledge, and got cornered. by the time it was over, I had 5 HP left. I asked for a heal. Nothing. I asked again, and the cleric who had almost full mana said no, as it would be a waste of her mana. next big battle took her out, because I was killed almost instantly, and was unable to stop the onslaught. If the cleric plays the healer, and keeps the tanks going, the tanks will keep you alive. also remember, if you are not attacking, you draw much less aggro.
Sorcerers and Wizards- You can be very effective in helping the tanks, either though Crowd Control, or attack spells. Just remember you don't do any good if you are dead. You, at your best, are soft and squishy, and your bones go crunch with one swing of a ogre club. Remember this as you run past your tanks. choose your spells wisely. getting aggro on several monsters at once can be deadly, and can make it difficult for a Tank to protect you. I've often seen monsters run right by my tank to get at the caster. Strategy is your best friend. Use doorways and tight spaces to your advantage. Put the firewall in the door so the tanks can hold the monsters in it. Scorching ray is a great spell, but useless against Blackbone Skellies, who are immune. once you find out that they are immune, casting it 6 more times isn't going to change that fact. Fire monsters usually are not affected by fire spells, and in some cases can be healed by them. Try something else. Mana managment is also key. if you run out, you become almost useless. save shrines when you can. Don't just hit the shrine as soon as you see it, yes you may be down to 70% of your total SP but you still have 70% to use. Also, if there are 3 tanks that are working 1 monster and they are not having problems with it, let the tanks take care of the monster. Sword swings don't run out, SP does. I can't count how many times my scorching ray doesn't leave my hands until the monster is already dead, wasting SP.
Rogues- your job is harder to define. you are the trap finder/door opener. But you are a squishy. There are many quests where I'm glad we have a rogue to disarm traps or to pick a lock. However playing these characters, I often find the role difficult to play. I feel the need to contribute more to the party, and that the few traps don't really justify my being there. This leads to my rushing into battles where I often get hurt bad. Some rogues are built strong and tough, others not so much. remember you can't warn of traps when your stuck in between a giants toes. know what you are capable of and play accordingly.
All others- know what you are capable of and play accordingly keeping in mind that you must protect the team above all else.
And Everyone- It is everyones responsibility to listen to each other. This includes the typed messages as well. If 4 people in the party Say "lets do this on Normal" and you jump in on "Elite" because that is what you want to do, well that's just plain rude. If you are told " Stop.. TRAP" by both text and voice, and to get killed by a trap, well that is your problem. If you Zerg and get killed, I as a cleric am not going to waste a rez scroll on you. If I'm buffing and you run away before I'm done, if you missed that haste or whatever, don't expect me to recast it.
Patience will save lives in this game. Strategy saves SP. Sticking together is important. waiting 2 minutes before jumping into a quest to allow the whole party to gather can make the difference between a easy mission and a difficult one. If the party wipes, wait for everyone to get back to full strength before trying again. if the monster took out all 6 people, what make you think you can get it by yourself? and communicate what your intentions are. If you AFK, let the party know this.
Also, try to time your visits to the shops to sell and buy things for before or after big quests. Nothing annoys me more than having everyone at the portal, waiting to start or during a multi-part quest and then have someone run to the market to sell or for some other purpose, then as they are almost back have someone else go AFK, then the first person go BRB, and run off again. This just puts a bad start to a mission. Ok, sometimes it is necessary to do this, but try to be ready to run the mission before joining a party.
Don't blame the cleric for everything. If the cleric says he's out of SP and you don't make an effort to get him to a shrine, it's not their fault you died. It is a good idea to not depend solely on your cleric for heals. Let them heal you in Battle, but help them conserve SP for when they need it by healing yourself when you can. Drinking that potion now might just save the SP needed to keep you going later. Don't expect that the cleric is going to spend all his money to buy rez scrolls and wands so you can Zerg. Always thank your cleric. If you want to Zerg, make sure you can take care of yourself.
Well I got that off my chest.
Chris