Is this the Rogue of the Future? 72 Buffed Reflex Save!

[Impaqt]

If I missed anything. let me know.... Prety sure I have Every Reflex enhancment int he game in this build..... If I Contract a Pocket Paladin, I can sponge off his Aura for +2 More In High End Content.

For those of you that are wondering WHy such a build is being considered, you should be informed that Trap DC's on Hard and Elite Content... Across the board, have been dramatically raised.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=134654

We have a Confirmed DC of 30 In a Level 1 Quest (Sewer Rescue), a Confirmed 32+ In Tangleroot, and a Confirmed 36+ In Gwylans Stand.

EDIT: Actualy 71.. 72 if you swap in Snake Blood For SF:UMD due to Resilience Adjustment

Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(3 Paladin \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 160
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 12\12\17\22

MAX Saves
Fortitude: 34
Reflex: 72 Yes..... Seventy Two 57 Unbuffed against Traps.
Will: 31

3/1/1 L3 Paly
4/8/4 L13 Rogue
2/2/2 Paly Aura
7/7/7 Divine Grace
4/12/3 Attribute Bonus
1/4/1 Halfling Luck w/ Reflex ENH
1/1/1 Luck Of heros
0/2/0 Lightning Reflexes
5/5/5 Resistance Item
2/2/2 Head of Good Fortune
------
28/44/25 Unbuffed Saves -
4/4/4 Greater Heroism
2/2/2 Recitation
0/1/0 Haste
------
34/51/31 - Pretty Rediculous Buffed Saves for a Rogue
0/6/0 Uncanny Dodge
0/2/0 Way of the Acrobat Dex Boost or Paly Save Boost
0/8/0 Trap Sense Granted and ENH
4/4/4 Resilience
-------
38/71/35 I BETTER Not Fail a Save with a 72 Refelx Save! :)



Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
{18}Strength 12 +6 Item
{34}Dexterity 18 +4 Levels +2 Half +2 Rogue +6 Item +2 Tome
{20}Constitution 13 +1 Tome +6 Item
{20}Intelligence 13 14
{12}Wisdom 8 8
{24}Charisma 14+1 Tome +PALY +6 Item

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1



SKILLS:
Disable Device: 46/59
19 ranks +5 INT +2 ENH +7 Tools +13 Item = 46 Standing +4 GH +4 Boost +2 Head +3 Vent Bracers =59

Open Lock: 49+
19 Ranks +12 Dex +11 Item +7 Tools = 49 + Buffs if needed

Search: 39/49
19 ranks +5 INT +2 ENH +13 Item = 39+4 GH +4 Boost +2 Head =49

Spot:
19 Ranks +2 Wis +2 EH +13 Item = 36 +4 GH +2 Head =42

UMD: 32/42
19 Ranks +7 CHR +3Cartouse +3 SF =32 +4 GH +4 Boost +2 Head

I was also able to Max Diplomacy, Jump and put 8 Ranks into Tumble.

Level Progression With Max Saves Breakdown. I count Resislience as Static because it has No timer. Its

a Stance. Parenthesis represent TImed Boosted Reflex Save Max.

Level 1 (Rogue1)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
+1 Dex Tome, +1 INT Tome +1 Resistance Item, Halfling Luck I(Reflex), Rogue Improved Trap Sense I, +1

Dex Item
MAX Reflex Save Vs. Traps: 13. You can Save Against the Sewer Rescue Trap on a 17.

Level 2 (Paladin1)
+1 Paly AUra
Max Reflex Save Vs. Traps: 14

Level 3 (Rogue2)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
+1 Rogue Dex, +2 RR Dex Item,+2 RR Resistance Item
Max Reflex Save:17

Level 4 (Paladin2)
+1 Dex(Level),+1 Paly CHR(16),+2 RR CHR Item = +4 Divine Grace(+2 Paly Boost ENH)
Max Reflex Save: 21(23)

Level 5 (Rogue3)
+3 RR or Tangleroor Dex Item
Max Reflex Save: 22

Level 6 (Paladin3)
Feat: (Selected) Resilience
+1 Aur ENH +5(?) Resilience Stance (Resilience May Scale like Power Attack so it might be lower)
Max Save vs. Traps: 28

Level 7 (Rogue4)
RR+4 Dex Item, +1 Halfling Dex +1 Trap Sense Class, +1 Trap Sense ENH, (Uncanny Dodge!)
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 32(40)

Level 8 (Rogue5)
+1 Dex Level
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 32(40)

Level 9 (Rogue6)
Feat: (Selected) SF: UMD
+2 Rogue Dex, +1 Trap Sense(Class),+4 CHR Item, Halfling LuckII(Reflex)(Greater Heroism, Recitation)
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 36(50)

Level 10 (Rogue7)
+1 Trap Sense(ENH)(Haste)-Yeah, coulda added that a couple levels ago)
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 38(53)

Level 11 (Rogue8)
+4 Resistance Item
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 41(56)

Level 12 (Rogue9)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
+1 Dex Level, +2 Halfling Dex,+1 Trap Sense(Class), +1 Trap Sense(Enh)
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 44(59)

Level 13 (Rogue10)
+6 Dex Item, +6 CHR Item, +5 Resistacne Item
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 50(65)

Level 14 (Rogue11)
Head of Good Fortune, +1 Trap Sense(Enh)
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 53(68)

Level 15 (Rogue12)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Halfling Luck III(Reflex), Feat
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 56(71)

Level 16 (Rogue)
+1 Dex(Level), +2 Dex Tome
Max Reflex Vs. Traps: 57(72)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Saves Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Reflex)
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Way of the Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot II
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense IV


Now.... Will anyone Group with him?

[Kerr]

I don't have a Rogue I'm actually playing, so please take that into consideration, but does a 72 Save really matter? Wouldn't a 50 be enough? A 72 Save or a 7 Save doesn't matter if you roll a 1, and you will, eventually. Why not devote the APs, levels, attributes, etc to upping the HP, skills or make him more versatile?

[Impaqt]

I don't have a Rogue I'm actually playing, so please take that into consideration, but does a 72 Save really matter? Wouldn't a 50 be enough? A 72 Save or a 7 Save doesn't matter if you roll a 1, and you will, eventually. Why not devote the APs, levels, attributes, etc to upping the HP, skills or make him more versatile?

You Might want to read some of the topics regarding The Collosal raise in Trap DC with Mod 6. There are Level 1 Quests with a 30DC Save right now.... How ya think that scales to l16 Elite Content?

[rimble]

No Snake Blood Feat? For shame!

[Impaqt]

No Snake Blood Feat? For shame!

Drat, Forgot about that one.... I suppose we could swap out SF: UMD for Snake Blood.... 58(73)! A Buffed 39 UMD is still pretty darn good.

[kingfisher]

n00b question here - the trap DC is the save number you have to beat to avoid damage? didn't the damage amount increase as well?

the dd,spot andbsearch are all the same right?

[Impaqt]

n00b question here - the trap DC is the save number you have to beat to avoid damage? didn't the damage amount increase as well?

the dd,spot andbsearch are all the same right?

Unless you have Evasion, you still take Half damage even if you make your save on traps.

Yes, Search, DD, and Spot DC's have al remained the same. DOnt know if the Trapping number in this build qwill meet all the Mod 6 High water matks, but it clears all the Mod 5 Numbers at least...... and we still have +15 Items now we can go to.

[binnsr]

Unless you have Evasion, you still take Half damage even if you make your save on traps.

Yes, Search, DD, and Spot DC's have al remained the same. DOnt know if the Trapping number in this build qwill meet all the Mod 6 High water matks, but it clears all the Mod 5 Numbers at least...... and we still have +17 Items now we can go to.

fixed that for ya :D

[Impaqt]

fixed that for ya :D

Ooo.. Havent seen any of those yet.... Good info.

[binnsr]

Well, to be honest, neither have I, but they should be out there in RR form now :)

[Kerr]

Well, people were complaining for a long time now that Rogues didn't get their moments to shine. Now apparently you need a twinked and min/maxed Rogue in order to handle traps. Wonderful. :(

[KoboldKiller]

I think I will delete mine and not make another.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

You might find them useful to your studies, :) I'm gonna post this in general too.

My rogue is Human 12 Rogue/3 Pally

Stats:

Str 16
Dex 28
Con 20
Int 22
Wis 10
Cha 22

I took all 4 trap save AP and the Way of the Acrobat enhancement. I also have the Human Versatility IV (includes Saves boost AND skills boost for +5 each. cheaper for me).

I have a Resistance 4 cloak and the GH belt.

Went into HIPS elite and stood in that trap to test. My first test was with ONLY Greater Heroism as a buff. I saved on a 3 and failed on a 2 and the number in brackets was +43. I took 84 points of damage. Is that a DC of 45 for that trap?

Then I clicked the 3 boost buffs (and thank GOD the three aren't on the same timer!): Improved Uncanny Dodge, Human Saves Boost and Acrobat Boost. This time when I stood in the traps it had +56 in brackets, so I gained 13 to my Reflex save for 20 seconds with those boosts.

I only failed on a 1.

But for those builds with just Evasion (Rangers and 2 Rogue splashes), the damage would have been double what I took because I have Improved Evasion. That's 168 points of damage!!! NASTY!!! I thought the 84 hurt and was thanking my lucky stars I have 251 HP and 2 LOH available to me.

The only thing that confused me was that with GH, on my Stats screen it said my Reflex save was 35. So I thought it would be 39 in a trap due to those trap AP's, but it said 43 in the combat log. Where did that extra 4 come from???

Hope this is helpful.

[Strykersz]

Rogue's get trap sense feats that improve your save's versus traps as you level. Not sure you get +4 from them but that would be my guess.

edit: Trap sense +4 is level 12, so that's the answer.

[Impaqt]

Rogue's get trap sense feats that improve your save's versus traps as you level. Not sure you get +4 from them but that would be my guess.

edit: Trap sense +4 is level 12, so that's the answer.

+4 Class Progression On Trap Sense and then +4 additional availabale through the Enhancment system. Both in the build already...

Cedrica, Did you do that testing since Mod6 came out?

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

Rogue's get trap sense feats that improve your save's versus traps as you level. Not sure you get +4 from them but that would be my guess.

edit: Trap sense +4 is level 12, so that's the answer.

Ahhhh, exactly. I completely forgot about that :) Thank you.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

+4 Class Progression On Trap Sense and then +4 additional availabale through the Enhancment system. Both in the build already...

Cedrica, Did you do that testing since Mod6 came out?

Yeah, just a few minutes ago.

[Aspenor]

I can't post pictures in the class forums :(

I was going to say this (http://www.blizzplanet.com/coppermine/albums/my-stuff/han-solo.jpg) is the rogue of tomorrow.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

I should add the following, for comparison purposes:

I DO have Rabbit gloves on.

I DO NOT have:
- Head of Good Fortune
- Lightning Reflexes
- Resilience Feat
- Halfling Luck

The only other differences might be in the arrangement of boosts? Dunno :) So, I think I could get mine up there a little more. For example a +3 Dex tome from Reaver would put me to 30. A +5 resistance item, the Head of Good Fortune (do Luck items stack???). But all in all, I think I'm OK.

[Impaqt]

I should add the following, for comparison purposes:

I DO have Rabbit gloves on.

I DO NOT have:
- Head of Good Fortune
- Lightning Reflexes
- Resilience Feat
- Halfling Luck

The only other differences might be in the arrangement of boosts? Dunno :) So, I think I could get mine up there a little more. For example a +3 Dex tome from Reaver would put me to 30. A +5 resistance item, the Head of Good Fortune (do Luck items stack???). But all in all, I think I'm OK.

How you get to a +43(+56) Save Modifier is completely academic..... The fact that you CAN get that high and are helpign us document these saves is awesome....

Thanks a Ton.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

How you get to a +43(+56) Save Modifier is completely academic..... The fact that you CAN get that high and are helpign us document these saves is awesome....

Thanks a Ton.

No problem, thank you for the post pointing out the Acrobat thingy. I read that, went and changed all my gear around and my reset my AP so I could at least be viable!

I don't have the time, money or inclination at this point to switch Feats around though to get it even higher, but I can if I find I really have to. With haste and recitation I'll get 3 more and if my husband can be persuaded to give me his Kardin's eye (HA!), I could make 60 buffed. Good enough for now. If I die I die...

[Toots]

I'm with kobold killer. The point seems to be that if you already have a rogue you might as well delete it now because it's irrelevant and won't survive.

It just beats the hell out of me why the developers would cater so exclusively to a tiny minority of people who want uber hard quests to the point where they would quickly exclude the vast majority of players with rogues from playing quests they could play last week, but can't now.

Why make absolutely sure the rogue is going to die in a trap (unless you have an extensive knowledge of character builds, which most of us don't) by making the traps so insanely difficult?

Why not just make it harder to access certain areas necessary for completion without a rogue specialized in abilities like open lock, search, etc? You know, things that won't absolutely kill him unless he is absolutely the perfect build? You know, one that has a 50+ in every ability and can also get high kills while he's healing party members and raising the dead cleric and avoiding the spinning blade traps that require a 20 roll every time?

Instead, unless you build something like Impaqt shows, you're screwed. Note to Impaqt: no slight against you, but that all translates into gibberish to the vast majority of us.

The point is, if turbine wants uber players then fine. But they can also go the way of the dinosaur when all us average and above average players just give up because we'll never get 1750 favor, never get to do a raid and never be in a circumstance where we'll have access to better loot to enhance our characters.

I completely understand Razvan's points in another thread. Some quests are elite because they were supposed to be for elite players. Well that's fine and dandy. Then CREATE an uber quest for the uber players. Don't take away quests from people who could play them yesterday, but not ever again.

[wizzy_catt]

ur rogue can do nothing except traps and saves against anything requires reflex save. whats its to hit bonus? can u hit mobs on elite? how do you stay alive? before any reflex save is rolled youre dead already 160 hp ur weaker than a sorc/wizard. 59 disable you cant even disable trap in crucible whats the point having a high lv rogue like that? if you say your rogue is that uber then prove it.

[Impaqt]

ur rogue can do nothing except traps and saves against anything requires reflex save. whats its to hit bonus? can u hit mobs on elite? how do you stay alive? before any reflex save is rolled youre dead already 160 hp ur weaker than a sorc/wizard. 59 disable you cant even disable trap in crucible whats the point having a high lv rogue like that? if you say your rogue is that uber then prove it.


Actualy, the DC on teh Crucible trap is 55...... So I'm more than fine......

160 is Core HP... I didnt calculate it all out.. But I will for you...

20 Heroic Durability
30 L3 Paly
78 L13 Rogue
80 COn Bonus
10 Dragonic Vitality
----
218 Standing
30 Greater False Life
----
248 Hit Points. Seem Fine for a Rogue build to me.

To hit is Fine as well...
13 BAB
12 Dex Bonus
3 Avg Weapon
----
+28 First Swing Unbuffed +35-40 With Avg Buffs

and with 7d6 Backstab damage, as long as you dotn pull a lot of aggro, you do lots of damage...

ANy other complaints? I'm Not sure what you want me to "Prove" It is a concept build after all......

[wizzy_catt]

It is a concept build after all......
exactly! what do u except new players to have? best items in game when they join for the first time? they dont know **** how to play this game nobody does at very beginning anyways. 32 pts is not available to fresh new players. concept is very different from real situations.

[Impaqt]

exactly! what do u except new players to have? best items in game when they join for the first time? they dont know **** how to play this game nobody does at very beginning anyways. 32 pts is not available to fresh new players. concept is very different from real situations.

Wow, Dunno why your getting so upset with me just because I have a build that CAN hit the reflex the game has introduced...... Having to create a build like this just goes to prove how rediculous they are.... But rest assured. if they stay this way, My rogue Will be rerolled to this template.

[oronisi]

The Resilience combat stance (feat) gives you 4/4/4 not 0/5/0.

Otherwise....insane.

[Sutek]

Who wants to play Gimpy McNimblearse?

Not me.

P.S. please rename this build to Gimpy McNimblearse.

[Sutek]

I can't post pictures in the class forums :(

I was going to say this (http://www.blizzplanet.com/coppermine/albums/my-stuff/han-solo.jpg) is the rogue of tomorrow.

Actualy that would be the rogue of the past.

A long time AGO in a galaxy far far away...

[Impaqt]

Who wants to play Gimpy McNimblearse?

Not me.

P.S. please rename this build to Gimpy McNimblearse.


Why? Do you have any REAL complaints about the build? How bout you complain about the Rediculous trap DC's instead...

[Sutek]

Why? Do you have any REAL complaints about the build? How bout you complain about the Rediculous trap DC's instead...

C'mon man. This coming from the guy who created the Deathdealer build.

Where's the damage output? Where's the fun factor?

This build I'm sure would be great for stand around, watch the group fight, disable the trap, rinse, repeat. But I wouldn't want to play that character.

Rogues should be able to disable traps AND do awesome DPS.

The DCs need to be lowered that's all there is to it.

Edit: forgot to put in a REAL complaint. No subtle backstaber = you hit something you get agro you die.
Edit again: By complaining about this build I am complaining about the stupid high DCs.

[Westerner]

Great clarification of what it would take to save vs the new Elite trap DC's. If things remain as they are, there will be roughly 3 kinds of rogues in Mod6:

Type I: Disabler. Multiclass rogues, can disable but not evade hard/elite traps.
Type II: Evader. A trap evading pure rogue build similar to Impaqts, can disable/evade all traps.
Type III: Backstabber. A DPS rogue who can disable but not evade elite traps.

[binnsr]

Great clarification of what it would take to save vs the new Elite trap DC's. If things remain as they are, there will be roughly 3 kinds of rogues in Mod6:

Type I: Disabler. Multiclass rogues, can disable but not evade hard/elite traps.
Type II: Evader. A trap evading pure rogue build similar to Impaqts, can disable/evade all traps.
Type III: Backstabber. A DPS rogue who can disable but not evade elite traps.

you missed Type IV: The MultiClass Disabling, Evading Backstabbing rogue of doom!

My rogue (11 rog / 3 pal / 2 ftr) has a 46 reflex save standing in the trap (52 with IUD), can find and disable any trap in the game (except that cabal one) and does a butt-load of damage with gTWF, all with a 'normal' combat AC of 50..

[Westerner]

you missed Type IV: The MultiClass Disabling, Evading Backstabbing rogue of doom!

My rogue (11 rog / 3 pal / 2 ftr) has a 46 reflex save standing in the trap (52 with IUD), can find and disable any trap in the game (except that cabal one) and does a butt-load of damage with gTWF, all with a 'normal' combat AC of 50..
Nice!! Take that, oh Evil DevLords of Nerfage!

[CSFurious]

you need to be a dps dealer as a rogue or you will get no respect

you better be playing with your buddies all of the time who tolerate eccentric builds

i can guarantee you that these trap dc's are going to be reevaluated by the devs & will be lowered so that rogues with a 30 reflex save can still do their jobs


C'mon man. This coming from the guy who created the Deathdealer build.

Where's the damage output? Where's the fun factor?

This build I'm sure would be great for stand around, watch the group fight, disable the trap, rinse, repeat. But I wouldn't want to play that character.

Rogues should be able to disable traps AND do awesome DPS.

The DCs need to be lowered that's all there is to it.

Edit: forgot to put in a REAL complaint. No subtle backstaber = you hit something you get agro you die.
Edit again: By complaining about this build I am complaining about the stupid high DCs.

[miceelf88]

CS, I hope you're right about the devs re-evaluating, but I am not optimistic. They seem bound and determined to cater to the l33t players, which means that this change to traps had to happen. They've also been silent about this issue, while acknowledging most of the other complaints players had about the new mod.

[binnsr]

Nice!! Take that, oh Evil DevLords of Nerfage!

I'll also be the first to admit that he's probably got gear that the casual player (even though I consider myself to be semi-casual) isn't probably going have easy access to in order to maintain his dps while also maintaining those other areas of the build. (and he still hasn't picked up a chattering ring, KDS or any +3 tomes :()

[Aeneas]

Just FYI, the required reflex save to pull up and out of the canyon on the "dev-star" after dropping your missile in a ventilation shaft is 80+ - you ain't hitting that without use of the force.

[Sutek]

you need to be a dps dealer as a rogue or you will get no respect



My rogue does do decent DPS but still no respect :(
This DC change is only going to make it harder to get a group on my rogue.

[Hvymetal]

Just FYI, the required reflex save to pull up and out of the canyon on the "dev-star" after dropping your missile in a ventilation shaft is 80+ - you ain't hitting that without use of the force.Hmmm makes me wonder anyone try wandering through traps blindfolded? Worked for Luke:D

[CSFurious]

if you know you do a good job, your guildies & real game friends on your friend's list will seek you out & you will eventually get respect from more players

however, when you encounter those with small minds just add them to the squelch list, there are plenty more to play with

peace


My rogue does do decent DPS but still no respect :(
This DC change is only going to make it harder to get a group on my rogue.

[Sutek]

if you know you do a good job, your guildies & real game friends on your friend's list will seek you out & you will eventually get respect from more players

however, when you encounter those with small minds just add them to the squelch list, there are plenty more to play with

peace

My rogues lvl 8 dude, I gotta PUG :( hard to do with a rogue that depends on a good tank to be able to keep agro.

[traxzin]

Ah yes, but rolling a 1 still sucks :)

[winsom]

Nice tip with the Resilience feat. I totally forgot about that lame feat. It actually has a use now..

I dropped Extend for Luck of Heroes on my bard 12/rogue 4 . Perhaps I should get Resilience just for traps! Kyonna doesn't have the 13 CON prerequisite though. lol. Resilience denied! If I had chosen Lawful Good for alignment she could get 3 paladin levels too! I suddenly feel very lawful Turbine... Help us out here with alignment switching? How much Bluff does she need to trick the Paladin trainer? :D


Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(3 Paladin \ 13 Rogue)

28/44/25 Unbuffed Saves

DDO game-(im)balance at work !

Nice thread. I got a laugh! I hope this proves that some enhancements are much too good.

Remember the old discussion about how all rogues need to be elves for the spot bonuses vs the new-higher Trap-finding DCs? Turbine eventually lowered the DCs to more reasonable #s. We can only hope they do the same for the new hard/elite Trap-Save DCs, otherwise the optimized elite-rogue will have to have paladin levels (lawful good) and be a race that gives saves/DEX/Boost enhancements. Thats much too limiting on player creativity.

[Lunewann]

Can I suggest that maybe you wont need such a high reflex if you just dis-arm the trap :)

[miceelf88]

Some traps specifically cannot be disarmed. Some traps require you to stand in the trap or run through it to reach the box.

[Impaqt]

Can I suggest that maybe you wont need such a high reflex if you just dis-arm the trap :)

Tell that to the devs....

Temple of Vol is a Prime Example.... its a 50 DC on ELite now.... You MUST go through the trap to get to the box Theres no way around it... You pretty much have to have this build if you want to fail only on a 1 gettin to that box.....

[Lunewann]

Tell that to the devs....

Temple of Vol is a Prime Example.... its a 50 DC on ELite now.... You MUST go through the trap to get to the box Theres no way around it... You pretty much have to have this build if you want to fail only on a 1 gettin to that box.....

Then I will humberly re-tract this statment for now as I have not really run in the the traps since new patch to test this... and yes I did factor in these traps I did not know they had rasised to such a DC. But also with saying that my build can still reach the target DC stated with gear and buffs comftably... **unless i roll a dreaded 1**

[Finvara]

Rolling a 1 is some serious BS too. They should implement some of the "reroll bad saves" spells to protect from such horrid circumstances.

[Sutek]

Rolling a 1 is some serious BS too. They should implement some of the "reroll bad saves" spells to protect from such horrid circumstances.

improved evasion?

I don't think half trap damage would outright kill ya would it?

[QuantumFX]

Rolling a 1 is some serious BS too. They should implement some of the "reroll bad saves" spells to protect from such horrid circumstances.

Actually since most of the racial enhancement chains are based off of class substitution levels they could implement a 3rd level enhancement for halfling rogues called Thief's Luck that prettymuch does what you describe. (Though it should be tied to uncanny dodge usage to maintain the spirit of the ability.)

[Gunga]

Tell that to the devs....

Temple of Vol is a Prime Example.... its a 50 DC on ELite now.... You MUST go through the trap to get to the box Theres no way around it... You pretty much have to have this build if you want to fail only on a 1 gettin to that box.....

Hey IMPAQT-

I actually built your 10/2/2 rogue/ranger/fighter build and have had a great time leveling her. I can search and disarm cabal and I'm often in the top 3 kills...still trying to figure out how not to die so much. Are you abandoning this build now?

[Impaqt]

Hey IMPAQT-

I actually built your 10/2/2 rogue/ranger/fighter build and have had a great time leveling her. I can search and disarm cabal and I'm often in the top 3 kills...still trying to figure out how not to die so much. Are you abandoning this build now?
Of course not, My Deathdealer is a Staple build. I've buffed mine up quite a bit for Mod6.. Standing at 259 Hit Points now (And mine has a Base CON of 10)

The build has been updated for Mod 6 Levels as well.. Linked through my Build index.



I doubt I'd actually play this rogue.. Just wanted to see how much Reflex save I could actually get

[Gunga]

Of course not, My Deathdealer is a Staple build. I've buffed mine up quite a bit for Mod6.. Standing at 259 Hit Points now (And mine has a Base CON of 10)

The build has been updated for Mod 6 Levels as well.. Linked through my Build index.



I doubt I'd actually play this rogue.. Just wanted to see how much Reflex save I could actually get


Glad to hear it. Fun build...will continue to play her as one of my mains.

[Turial]

Rolling a 1 is some serious BS too. They should implement some of the "reroll bad saves" spells to protect from such horrid circumstances.

I think that in one of the suplemental DND books there is a feat that lets you reroll a failed save 1 per day or something like that. Though I may be thinking of the luck domain for clerics or the luck PrC.

[sigtrent]

You Might want to read some of the topics regarding The Collosal raise in Trap DC with Mod 6. There are Level 1 Quests with a 30DC Save right now.... How ya think that scales to l16 Elite Content?

It doesn't seem to scale all that badly at high level.

I was doing elite gianthold quests the other night... no problems running traps on my rogue to get to the boxes. Ran the trap gauntlet in Gholaphan on hard with my 130hp bard... not an big problem although some were avoided via twitchyness.

Seems like they scale badly at low levels but not quite so bad at high level although they are more difficult to dodge.

[Impaqt]

It doesn't seem to scale all that badly at high level.

I was doing elite gianthold quests the other night... no problems running traps on my rogue to get to the boxes. Ran the trap gauntlet in Gholaphan on hard with my 130hp bard... not an big problem although some were avoided via twitchyness.

Seems like they scale badly at low levels but not quite so bad at high level although they are more difficult to dodge.
Sig, Ya need to look at your COmbat log.....

MANY MANY Elite End game traps are simply Bugged right now and do NO damage at all on a Failed save.

[Hvymetal]

Sig, Ya need to look at your COmbat log.....

MANY MANY Elite End game traps are simply Bugged right now and do NO damage at all on a Failed save.Aye, not all but some for sure.

[Solmage]

CS, I hope you're right about the devs re-evaluating, but I am not optimistic. They seem bound and determined to cater to the l33t players, which means that this change to traps had to happen. They've also been silent about this issue, while acknowledging most of the other complaints players had about the new mod.

Actually, I think the POINT of the uber DCs is that people, rogues or not, are not SUPPOSED to stand in a **** blade or inside a 4x4x4 room with fire blasting from all corners and get no damage.

Reflex save is supposed to mean that, due to extremely high reflexes, you managed to move out of the way so quickly you only took no damage/half damage, and not that you suddenly become etheral and stuff just passes through you.

So what I think will happen is that rather than DCs going down, those traps that require you to be in the trap to disable it will be changed.

Of course, I COULD be wrong and they do want to cater to ...erm..no one really, cause noone has builds like this, nor wants to have builds like this. (yet..). But between the likelihood of them catering to no one, or the odds of there being a different reason, I think I'll take the different reason.

Anyway, don't complain about trap DCs here, or about this build (btw thanks for the effort!!) go complain in the dev forums.