crafting - the grind to end all grinds but it doesn't have to be!

[VirieSquichie]

Kudos on implementing crafting, I know many people have been clamoring for it for a very long time.

Too bad it's targetted at the highest level of characters, and requires large amounts of farming. (ultra-high-level RAID quest farming at that) I mean, seriously...you have to collect the stuff to make an item enchantable in the first place. Then you have to collect more to make it have baseline abilities. Then you have to collect more and more and more to slowly work those abilities up to where you want...assuming you can figure out the recipes or someone else is kind enough to figure them out for you and post them. And assuming you can get the particular things you need to drop, instead of a bunch of other clutter you may never want to use in a recipe.

Casual gaming simply doesn't come into play here.

What happened to the good old crafting of:
get a masterwork item of the type you wish to have crafted
get a few medium-rarity collectible things (the third tier of market/house collectibles would work great for this) that have sympathetic attributes to those you wish your item to possess (i.e. elemental ingots would work great for adding that 1d6 of fire damage to a weapon, etc.)
get a pile of gold to pay the vendor/craftsperson who puts it together for you

It's a good use for gems, too, since a standard gem of a particular value could be part of each recipe...no more ignoring the skittles in the chests because their haul-off value is too low, when they're also of use in recipes.

Masterwork items of other types could be implemented so crafted bracers, boots, gloves etc. could be made - not just weapons and armor.

I propose Turbine keeps on with the crafting they've implemented, for the cutting-edge uberplayers, but also implements the lower-end crafting with the more common collectibles and gems for the low-middle level ranges. If you're level 10 or below, shouldn't your eyes light up when you find rare collectibles, rather than pass them by as a worthless feature of the game? I have only seen a few players detour over to bookshelves, mushroom patches and even flowering plants lately, it seems like most everyone has realized the original sets of collectibles aren't worth collecting even at the lower levels.

I've got a couple casters that practically lived on lily extract for their first 8 levels or so, and before Gianthold was added in I was still turning in the stuff that produced cure wands...now it's not worth it since I can pull a 50k item from some random chests and sell it for a stack of cure wands...and let's not get into the worthlessness of SCROLLS as collectible rewards.

[Impaqt]

THe devs have said numerous times that this is "Prototype" crafting.....

Did you really have to start the thread off by Bashing people who like the system? I didnt do any "Grinding" last night and endd up with a fullbag of crafting componants.... Had to go buy a Medium bag even....

[MysticTheurge]

As far as I can tell, you need some basic components to make yourself an item (consider it part of getting flagged) and then you need to do the raid 1+ times to get the components you need to enchant the item (consider this the 1 in 6 chance of "getting an item" you'd have in other raids).

It seems like it's really not that much more grind-y than any of the other raid loot systems. But I guess we'll see how easy it is to get the types of components you need.

[VirieSquichie]

My point stands that this system is targetting mainly the most elite players and their most elite characters who already have most of the elite gear. It does relatively little for anyone who wasn't capped a week ago and practically nothing for anyone lower than level 10. (ooh, I can make an item bound so it doesn't take any damage...wait, I'll outgrow it in a couple levels anyway and it won't take much damage in that time, and I wouldn't be able to sell it or hand it down to a new character if I bound it...)

The collectibles that have existed for well over a year now have become next to worthless to most players. Gems have long been ignored by many as they're worth far less than the other items you can find in chests. Masterwork items are discarded or left abandoned in chests by even level 1 characters. It doesn't have to be this way, these existing items can find new purpose in a low-to-medium crafting system that even a casual gamer would find useful and interesting. And who wouldn't be interested in custom-designing gear that they have spent months trying to find in the dungeons, vendors and AH but either couldn't find or wouldn't spend millions of gold to buy from some platfarmer?

As a prototype system, it's a nice concept but it's once again a matter of Turbine aiming at the bored elitists and for the most part missing the new-to-middle class of gamers. I'm just saying let's spread the love and make use of the existing underused properties.

[Ghoste]

Hopefully, since it is just a prototype so far, the full deal will include lower level players. There is nothing to indicate so far that this won't be done.

[MysticTheurge]

It does relatively little for anyone who wasn't capped a week ago and practically nothing for anyone lower than level 10.

Uh, right. That's because it's prototype crafting to make high-end raid loot.

Prototype crafting means it's not the real crafting system which might actually offer something to people of all levels, but rather the practice run for that system.

But even just calling it "prototype crafting" means they're clearly planning to release a fuller version of this system at some time in the future. But it seems like you expect this prototype to be that fuller crafting system.

[Boldrin]

Are elite players the only ones that do raids??? I don't think so, if it takes a while for new players to craft, GOOD! it gives them something to look forward to.

[salmag]

Uh, right. That's because it's prototype crafting to make high-end raid loot.

Prototype crafting means it's not the real crafting system which might actually offer something to people of all levels, but rather the practice run for that system.

But even just calling it "prototype crafting" means they're clearly planning to release a fuller version of this system at some time in the future. But it seems like you expect this prototype to be that fuller crafting system.

This "Prototype" is not crafting. It is questing for items that may or may not drop and placing them on a "combine" machine to craft for you.

Crafting is:
1. Adding ranks to a Crafting (x) skill (you may want to add knowledge (y) skill as well),
2. Getting a Masterwork item,
3. Getting materials to craft "x" item,
4. Spending xp and gp to imbue said item,
5. Make a Crafting (x) skill check to get item, or
6. Failing a Crafting (x) skill check to blow up item and all ingredients.
7. Then you would have to start over in order to try again.

The higher your skill level the better chance you have to succeed, and the better imbues you can place on an item. Turbine has done a similar version of crafting in their Asheron's Call game, so I'm pretty sure it can be done here as well.

[Eregion2]

I'd rather them err on the side of caution rather than risk making customizable items too easy. I kind of like the idea of extraordinarily rare items, that means the customizable items will be kept very rare as well and the economy won't take a serious hit when everyday loot is rendered worthless in comparison with player-made items. :)

[salmag]

I'd rather them err on the side of caution rather than risk making customizable items too easy. I kind of like the idea of extraordinarily rare items, that means the customizable items will be kept very rare as well and the economy won't take a serious hit when everyday loot is rendered worthless in comparison with player-made items. :)

No one said it would be easy to craft weapons and high level loot. We only have so many ranks to give per level, and everything has a chance of being destroyed if you try to craft something out of your range. Also, It takes gold and XP to make items so you would still have to quest to get raw materials, as well as leveling to get more ranks.

Make the skills class appropriate. Only fighter classes (fighter, ranger, pally) can take the Craft Weapons and Craft Armor skill; Casters (wiz and sorc) can take the Craft Wands and Craft Magic Items skill; Healers (clerics and bards) can Craft Potions skills.

Place a limit on the amount of times you can imbue an item successfully. So if you want to make a masterwork longsword into a +5 ghost touch flaming burst longsword of greater undead bane would require 11 imbues (5 for the +5, 1 each for the ghost touch, flaming, and burst effect, and 3 for the lesser undead, undead and greater undead bane). Each time require more raw materials (which require more questing), more skill ranks in crafting weapons (which require higher levels), not to mention more gold and loss of XP each time you attempt it. Plus you have the chance to destroy your item each time you attempt it.

I don't think that's so easy.

[CrazySamaritan]

Crafting is:
1. Adding ranks to a Crafting (x) skill (you may want to add knowledge (y) skill as well),


5. Make a Crafting (x) skill check to get item, or
6. Failing a Crafting (x) skill check to blow up item and all ingredients.
7. Then you would have to start over in order to try again.

NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

That is NOT how crafting works.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

You NEVER fail crafting, and you NEVER need to use a skill for magical items.

[CrazySamaritan]

Only fighter classes (fighter, ranger, pally) can take the Craft Weapons and Craft Armor skill; Casters (wiz and sorc) can take the Craft Wands and Craft Magic Items skill; Healers (clerics and bards) can Craft Potions skills.

#@(U%#$(% GAH!

1) the Craft skill is only in-game as Repair, and only works on non-magical items.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm

2) EVERYONE gets Craft as a class skill.

3) Clerics ARE CASTERS!!!

4) Clerics are NOT HEALERS!!!!!!

[Dane_McArdy]

This "Prototype" is not crafting. It is questing for items that may or may not drop and placing them on a "combine" machine to craft for you.

Crafting is:
1. Adding ranks to a Crafting (x) skill (you may want to add knowledge (y) skill as well),
2. Getting a Masterwork item,
3. Getting materials to craft "x" item,
4. Spending xp and gp to imbue said item,
5. Make a Crafting (x) skill check to get item, or
6. Failing a Crafting (x) skill check to blow up item and all ingredients.
7. Then you would have to start over in order to try again.

The higher your skill level the better chance you have to succeed, and the better imbues you can place on an item. Turbine has done a similar version of crafting in their Asheron's Call game, so I'm pretty sure it can be done here as well.

That's not crafting that's grinding buttons for months on end.

Paper DnD, never had you do that, it's assumed that as you grow in your craft, your skill in making items grew as well. You aren't required to make 500 paperweights to learn how to make your Magical Scepter of Smashall.

[Vormaerin]

I definitely DO NOT want to see a typical MMO grindathon crafting system implemented in this game. I think it is amusing that the OP thinks the system they are proposing is a grind. I suppose if you were really hard for a particular thing and unlucky, it might end up feeling like a grind to get it. But there is no running all over the landscape performing useless tasks solely for the right to do something useful later. Instead, you get the things you want incidentally *as you adventure*.

As mentioned, it is currently a 'customizable reward' system for the raid to see how it works and what kinds of things are done with it. Assuming it goes over well, I expect that we'll see it rolled out to cover lower levels as welll.

Oh, and don't forget: In p&p D&D you have to have feats, gold, and xp to do proper magic item crafting. One feat for scrolls, another for potions, another for weapons and armor, one for wands & staves, and one for 'everything else'. Oh, and you have to be a spellcaster. Luckily they aren't going down that path in DDO or everyone would have to have their crafting specced mage or regularly feat swap when they want to make something instead of adventure. Yawn...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Are elite players the only ones that do raids??? I don't think so, if it takes a while for new players to craft, GOOD! it gives them something to look forward to.

I don't look forward to grinds, I don't care whats at the end of it...because I won't grind so any grind leading to something good is something that makes me dislike DDO.

[Yaga_Nub]

I don't look forward to grinds, I don't care whats at the end of it...because I won't grind so any grind leading to something good is something that makes me dislike DDO.

But you already dislike DDO Lorien. ;)

[Talcyndl]

Had to go buy a Medium bag even....


Where?

Thanks.

[Aesop]

This "Prototype" is not crafting. It is questing for items that may or may not drop and placing them on a "combine" machine to craft for you.

Crafting is:
1. NO
2. Getting a Masterwork item,
3. Getting materials to craft "x" item,
4. Spending xp and gp to imbue said item,
5. NO
6. NO
7. NO

The higher your skill level the better chance you have to succeed, and the better imbues you can place on an item. Turbine has done a similar version of crafting in their Asheron's Call game, so I'm pretty sure it can be done here as well.


in general NO

I myself would perfer a crafting system based mostly on PnP style Crafting... THis system is fine and dandy for making interesting high powered items via a raid but I would still like a PnP base crafting system

Aesop

[Elsbet]

Where?

Thanks.

They are available at the vendors that sell medium gem and collectible bags. I got mine in House P. I haven't checked yet to be 100% sure you can get them in the Portable Hole and Jouse J as well.

[MysticTheurge]

This "Prototype" is not crafting. It is questing for items that may or may not drop and placing them on a "combine" machine to craft for you.

It would be a bit naive to expect DDO crafting to be exactly the same as D&D crafting, especially since in D&D XP is a limited resource (and thus a legitimate cost for crafting) while in DDO it's an unlimited resource (and therefore not).

But that aside, as everyone else has pointed out, you're almost 100% wrong about how D&D crafting works. If you're going to complain about the differences, at least get it right.

[Yaga_Nub]

It would be a bit naive to expect DDO crafting to be exactly the same as D&D crafting, especially since in D&D XP is a limited resource (and thus a legitimate cost for crafting) while in DDO it's an unlimited resource (and therefore not).

But that aside, as everyone else has pointed out, you're almost 100% wrong about how D&D crafting works. If you're going to complain about the differences, at least get it right.

Well xp is a limited resource only to the extend that you don't quest more often. If you wanted to you could get a table top game together every single day and gain xp.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It would be a bit naive to expect DDO crafting to be exactly the same as D&D crafting, especially since in D&D XP is a limited resource (and thus a legitimate cost for crafting) while in DDO it's an unlimited resource (and therefore not)..

I'd suggest that the craft point rules from D&D would allow controlled crafting that wouldn't have allowed for overpowered use or allowed powergamers to grind out any more superweapons than an average player.... They missed the boat by not trying to go that route.

[MysticTheurge]

Well xp is a limited resource only to the extend that you don't quest more often. If you wanted to you could get a table top game together every single day and gain xp.

Not really.

Even in that situation, there's X amount of XP in your game. If you spend a bunch (Y) on crafting, you're going to be at X-Y XP and therefore behind everyone else.

To some degree, this is mitigated by D&D's rules for XP (such that if you fall so far behind as to be a level behind everyone else, you get more XP per encounter), but you're still going to be behind people who aren't spending XP on stuff.

This is not the case in DDO.

[Aesop]

It would be a bit naive to expect DDO crafting to be exactly the same as D&D crafting, especially since in D&D XP is a limited resource (and thus a legitimate cost for crafting) while in DDO it's an unlimited resource (and therefore not).

But that aside, as everyone else has pointed out, you're almost 100% wrong about how D&D crafting works. If you're going to complain about the differences, at least get it right.

But we made a number of suggestions to mitigate this and to limit excessive crafting. Such as incubation periods Earned Crafting XP and things like rare components for higher powered items. As well as the cost of the Feats themselves...of course that is decreased by the Feat Repec options

Aesop

[Aesop]

I'd suggest that the craft point rules from D&D would allow controlled crafting that wouldn't have allowed for overpowered use or allowed powergamers to grind out any more superweapons than an average player.... They missed the boat by not trying to go that route.

I never really liked the craft point system... it seems that its too restrictive

Aesop

[MysticTheurge]

But we made a number of suggestions to mitigate this and to limit excessive crafting. Such as incubation periods Earned Crafting XP and things like rare components for higher powered items.

And what we have is a rare components system. ;)

[Aesop]

And what we have is a rare components system. ;)

I think we both know that it is not the same thing that we were talking about though :)

Aesop

and anyway like I said this is fine for a raid but I'll be a little disappointed if this is how it works for the rest of crafting

[MysticTheurge]

I think we both know that it is not the same thing that we were talking about though :)

Well, the other crafting recipe (the non-raid one) doesn't even really use rare components. It just uses some regular old, relatively-easy-to-find components.

I wouldn't be surprised if, when real crafting gets added, we start seeing collectibles, gems and other similar items get involved.

[Aesop]

Well, the other crafting recipe (the non-raid one) doesn't even really use rare components. It just uses some regular old, relatively-easy-to-find components.

I wouldn't be surprised if, when real crafting gets added, we start seeing collectibles, gems and other similar items get involved.

Yeah I'm not too keen on that really. I could see having something like a rare component for +4/+5 effective level things like vorpal or Heavy Fortification but I dislike having to grind to make items... though thankfully I'm fairly sure it will be better than the other MMO grind to make an item that has no value other than to build up your skill with grinding out items.

Aesop

[Strakeln]

OP... don't worry, 6.1 looks like it will introduce the crafting you're interested in.

[Aesop]

Ya know I was thinking about it and is the Raid crafting only good for the Green Steel Weapons or can we take other items and enchant them?

Like I have a set of 30% striding Boots I'd love to Imbue with Elemental Fire for the Dex bonus

Aesop

[MysticTheurge]

Ya know I was thinking about it and is the Raid crafting only good for the Green Steel Weapons or can we take other items and enchant them?

Like I have a set of 30% striding Boots I'd love to Imbue with Elemental Fire for the Dex bonus

It's only green steel items, but weapons aren't the only thing you can make.

So you may be able to make those boots, they'll just be green steel boots and you'll have to figure out what gives 30% striding.

[Aesop]

It's only green steel items, but weapons aren't the only thing you can make.

So you may be able to make those boots, they'll just be green steel boots and you'll have to figure out what gives 30% striding.



okie dokie thanks

now if only I could get into the game

Aesop

[VirieSquichie]

OP... don't worry, 6.1 looks like it will introduce the crafting you're interested in.

I look forward to it.


P.S.
Incidentally, to those who have said "crafting doesn't work like that" of the various crafting method comments/proposals...there have been many types of crafting in AD&D, both published by the official sources and created by various players. I don't claim to know what the current "official" system is, as my pencil-and-paper group dissolved due to the demands of family lives shortly after the Core 3.5 books came out. No single crafting method has ever appealed to everyone. DDO has a unique environment and has had to bend or reinvent various aspects of the game to accomodate that - hence Enhancements, spell points and rank-and-file monsters with many hundreds of HP. It's quite plausible that they would have to implement a crafting system that differs greatly from whatever the current "official" crafting system is, simply to fit into the existing DDO game mechanic. DDO is not, CAN not, faithfully duplicate a pencil-and-paper gaming system. Screaming "NO" or saying flat out that crafting does not work that way indicates that you either aren't taking the different environment into consideration or you place no value in the opinions of others, either of which reduces my opinion of your post to nearly nil.

[CrazySamaritan]

DDO is not, CAN not, faithfully duplicate a pencil-and-paper gaming system. Screaming "NO" or saying flat out that crafting does not work that way indicates that you either aren't taking the different environment into consideration or you place no value in the opinions of others, either of which reduces my opinion of your post to nearly nil.
Not true.

PnP requires 4 things to craft magical items;
1) The right feat
2) The spell 1/day
3) 1/4 Gold of total price in materials (in PnP, the DM usually just asks for the gold)
4) 1/25 XP of the total price in gold

Now, 1&2 can be traded for an item that holds one or both of each.
An Eldrich Device, by definition, has a Wish spell stored in it (and is therefore considered an artifact). This means that they can be considered to have the feats and spells inherent.
That's Restrictions 1&2 down.

3) Can be done two ways; (1)gold from your inventory, or (2)players must collect specific materials, something like a collectibles system.
Guess what we have in place? ;) It's the DM's call, and I could listen either way.

4) Here's the real issue; in some books, there's already been some suggestion that certain rare materials can be used to offset XP costs.
So it is reasonable to assume that Turbine might change this, but this is the ONLY rule that might actually go against the way PnP works. Even then, there are precedents, so it would not be a complete no-no for it to work this way.

What was proposed was to add something COMPLETELY irrelevant to the game.

[salmag]

Not true.

PnP requires 4 things to craft magical items;
1) The right feat
2) The spell 1/day
3) 1/4 Gold of total price in materials (in PnP, the DM usually just asks for the gold)
4) 1/25 XP of the total price in gold

Now, 1&2 can be traded for an item that holds one or both of each.
An Eldrich Device, by definition, has a Wish spell stored in it (and is therefore considered an artifact). This means that they can be considered to have the feats and spells inherent.
That's Restrictions 1&2 down.

3) Can be done two ways; (1)gold from your inventory, or (2)players must collect specific materials, something like a collectibles system.
Guess what we have in place? ;) It's the DM's call, and I could listen either way.

4) Here's the real issue; in some books, there's already been some suggestion that certain rare materials can be used to offset XP costs.
So it is reasonable to assume that Turbine might change this, but this is the ONLY rule that might actually go against the way PnP works. Even then, there are precedents, so it would not be a complete no-no for it to work this way.

What was proposed was to add something COMPLETELY irrelevant to the game.

Look the system I proposed was just that "a Proposal." It was an idea. Obviously, DDO is an MMORPG and not PnP. So, if you want to go by the "Rules," let's take some things into account. Only spellcasters can make magic items and they have to take a feat to do it. Period. I proposed something different, using Skills instead of Feats, and making other classes have some sort of input. Sorry it doesn't fit the mold or follow the "Rules" but then again neither does DDO. And for the person that said Clerics are casters, You are correct, I should have clarified and said "Arcane Casters, or Divine Casters or Non Casters or Mixed Casters;" Whatever... they were suggestions, people. And suggestions that MIGHT HAVE prevented Re-Rolling characters. Now back on topic:

Since we are going by the "Rules" You have a Time constraint, a Materials constraint, a Money constraint, an XP constraint, Feat constraints (since there are more than one feat that you need for the various items in question), and the fact that ONLY spellcasters can craft. NOTE that I said spellcasters and not casters healers etc etc etc.

Lets deal with the TIME CONSTRAINT FIRST.
Unless you want to say that you can only craft something 1x per every three days (again this is another example, don't have a crisis people), then I would suggest that this not be used. But a lockout, sort of like the raid mechanic one, is very acceptable.

MATERIALS CONSTRAINT
All those collectable materials floating around already could possibly be used. Mix and match ingredients to come up with a substance that can imbue a masterwork item. the Devs might need to add masterwork items vendors for the rings, boots, goggles, etc. If you want to imbue a spell effect, like haste, you would probably need a scroll, to add a number of charges then you would probably need more then one scroll. So, three charges of Haste would be 3 scrolls (once again, it's an example). I think you get the idea about the materials. Masterwork Item, collectable materials, possibly scrolls. Remember to keep body part affinities in mind Boots of Haste would be acceptable, not Boots of Ice Storm.

MONEY CONSTRAINT
I think this is self explanatory. It will cost you to gather said masterwork item, possibly for scrolls, materials could be found in the local environments. However, it should also cost according to the finished item in question. I would think that for each +1 that there would be additional costs. Those costs are defined in the various sourcebooks, as well as at the d20 site. DDO could possibly change this, deviate from it, or not, as was mentioned above, it's really the DMs (Devs of MMORPGs) choice. Let's just leave it at that.

XP CONSTRAINT
Once again I think this is pretty self explanatory. It should cost some XP to create the item in question. According to the "Rules," it is usually a fraction (1/25, I believe) of the money constraint. Once again, up to the DM or the Devs of MMORPGs.

FEAT CONSTRAINTS and SPELLCASTER ONLY CONSTRAINTS
In the "Rules," ONLY (did I spell that right) spellcasters that have taken the particular Feat in question can craft. Those feats are: Craft Magic Arms and Armor,
Brew Potions,
Forge Rings,
Craft Rods,
Scribe Scrolls,
Create Staves,
Create Wands,
Create Wondrous Items.
8 different feats that a spellcaster would need. I have absolutely NO problem with the Devs implementing this.
However,
This is where I say just go with a SKILL and not a FEAT based system. The reason for this is so that ANYONE that would like to craft something could; They could spend skill points instead of Feat slots that could possibly be better off used elsewhere. If you just want to make it so that ONLY spellcasters can use these skills then fine, make it that way. With the current enhancement system (wait a minute, is there an enhancement system in the "Rules?" Oh I forgot, we were talking about DDO not PnP, anyway...), you could even just add the skill 'CRAFTING' and within the enhancement system spell out the 8 different ways in which one can focus on it.

Get rid of the idea for blowing up an item that failed the save (that was more of a reference to TURBINE's OTHER game, which is one possible(?) way of implementing Crafting that Turbine ALREADY has).

I really am ok with just taking away XP, Money, Materials, and having just Spellcasters do it. Whether it is by FEAT or through a proposed SKILL/ENHANCEMENT system, whatever. The main point is that the Eldritch "Proposed Crafting" system really is NOT crafting, and that crafting really should be implemented. To turn around and say that my proposal is "COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT" is way off base and completely uncalled for.

This is DDO, not PnP D&D. It has an enhancement system, and it is an MMORPG.

Oh, and by the way, there already is a CRAFT SKILL in PnP (albeit it is just to manufacture items but I don't see why it couldn't be used here). If you fail your craft skill check, you can not make the item in question for a weeks time.

[CrazySamaritan]

Look the system I proposed was just that "a Proposal."
This "Prototype" is not crafting. It is questing for items that may or may not drop and placing them on a "combine" machine to craft for you.

Crafting is:
1. Adding ranks to a Crafting (x) skill (you may want to add knowledge (y) skill as well),
2. Getting a Masterwork item,
3. Getting materials to craft "x" item,
4. Spending xp and gp to imbue said item,
5. Make a Crafting (x) skill check to get item, or
6. Failing a Crafting (x) skill check to blow up item and all ingredients.
7. Then you would have to start over in order to try again.This is NOT a proposal; it is a statement. An erroneous statement, but still a statement. A proposal would be along the lines of "crafting can be done this way". You said it is, which means that any other way is wrong.

It was an idea. Obviously, DDO is an MMORPG and not PnP. So, if you want to go by the "Rules," let's take some things into account. Only spellcasters can make magic items and they have to take a feat to do it. Period. Wrong.

I proposed something different, using Skills instead of Feats, and making other classes have some sort of input. They do.

Sorry it doesn't fit the mold or follow the "Rules" but then again neither does DDO. In several ways, it doesn't. Have you found a +6 longsword with flaming? Because I'm pretty sure they're following the rules that non-epic weapons are limited to +5 enchancement bonus. DDO follows pretty close for an alternate medium.

And for the person that said Clerics are casters, You are correct, I should have clarified and said "Arcane Casters, or Divine Casters or Non Casters or Mixed Casters;" Whatever... they were suggestions, people. If they're suggestions, DON'T STATE IT AS A FACT.

And suggestions that MIGHT HAVE prevented Re-Rolling characters. Not if you want a skill-based system.

Now back on topic:

Since we are going by the "Rules" You have a Time constraint, a Materials constraint, a Money constraint, an XP constraint, Feat constraints (since there are more than one feat that you need for the various items in question),True, Technically I subsumed the time cost into the gold and XP, because it's a limit of how much gold you can work on per day. DDO's system of time is messed up, anyway.

and the fact that ONLY spellcasters can craft. NOTE that I said spellcasters and not casters healers etc etc etc. Yes, I note, and I also note that you're still wrong. Try reading the DMG, or perhaps what I've written.


Lets deal with the TIME CONSTRAINT FIRST.
Unless you want to say that you can only craft something 1x per every three days (again this is another example, don't have a crisis people), then I would suggest that this not be used. But a lockout, sort of like the raid mechanic one, is very acceptable. I'm fine with that.

MATERIALS CONSTRAINT
All those collectible materials floating around already could possibly be used. Mix and match ingredients to come up with a substance that can imbue a masterwork item. the Devs might need to add masterwork items vendors for the rings, boots, goggles, etc. If you want to imbue a spell effect, like haste, you would probably need a scroll, to add a number of charges then you would probably need more then one scroll. So, three charges of Haste would be 3 scrolls (once again, it's an example). I think you get the idea about the materials. Masterwork Item, collectible materials, possibly scrolls. Remember to keep body part affinities in mind Boots of Haste would be acceptable, not Boots of Ice Storm.

MONEY CONSTRAINT
I think this is self explanatory. It will cost you to gather said masterwork item, possibly for scrolls, materials could be found in the local environments. However, it should also cost according to the finished item in question. I would think that for each +1 that there would be additional costs. Those costs are defined in the various sourcebooks, as well as at the d20 site. DDO could possibly change this, deviate from it, or not, as was mentioned above, it's really the DMs (Devs of MMORPGs) choice. Let's just leave it at that.No objections, although technically when you say materials constraints, I think you mean spell availability and item.


XP CONSTRAINT
Once again I think this is pretty self explanatory. It should cost some XP to create the item in question. According to the "Rules," it is usually a fraction (1/25, I believe) of the money constraint. Once again, up to the DM or the Devs of MMORPGs. Right again. I think the XP debt system that was in place for death would work fine for it.


FEAT CONSTRAINTS and SPELLCASTER ONLY CONSTRAINTS
In the "Rules," ONLY (did I spell that right) spellcasters that have taken the particular Feat in question can craft. Those feats are: Craft Magic Arms and Armor,
Brew Potions,
Forge Rings,
Craft Rods,
Scribe Scrolls,
Create Staves,
Create Wands,
Create Wondrous Items. Right, again. The feats are needed, and can only be taken by a spellcaster of the appropriate power level.

However,
This is where I say just go with a SKILL and not a FEAT based system. The reason for this is so that ANYONE that would like to craft something could; They could spend skill points instead of Feat slots that could possibly be better off used elsewhere. If you just want to make it so that ONLY spellcasters can use these skills then fine, make it that way. With the current enhancement system (wait a minute, is there an enhancement system in the "Rules?" Oh I forgot, we were talking about DDO not PnP, anyway...), you could even just add the skill 'CRAFTING' and within the enhancement system spell out the 8 different ways in which one can focus on it. Except that 1) skills don't make magic 2) the craft skill creates non-magical items 3) the argument of skills instead of feats can go both ways, so it's a bad argument. 4) instead of a static bonus, action points provide extra dice to a roll for a limited number of times while you level.


Get rid of the idea for blowing up an item that failed the save (that was more of a reference to TURBINE's OTHER game, which is one possible(?) way of implementing Crafting that Turbine ALREADY has). You're the one who brought it up.


I really am ok with just taking away XP, Money, Materials, and having just Spellcasters do it. Whether it is by FEAT or through a proposed SKILL/ENHANCEMENT system, whatever. The main point is that the Eldritch "Proposed Crafting" system really is NOT crafting, and that crafting really should be implemented. To turn around and say that my proposal is "COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT" is way off base and completely uncalled for.

This is DDO, not PnP D&D. It has an enhancement system, and it is an MMORPG.There is no restriction in pen and paper that prevents a Fighter from participating in the crafting of an item by donating the item, the gold cost, and the XP cost. The Eldrich device already provides a way for the fighter to gain access to everything else, without another person. You claim that what I am saying is uncalled for, but what you suggested was a system that is point-based, not level based. DDO follows DnD rules on making level-based characters, not point-based. So any point-based system is adding an irrelevant system to the game.

Also; you don't seem to realize that DDO does not need to force players to give up combat ability, just to craft.
Forcing a choice between Combat and Crafting is wrong.

Oh, and by the way, there already is a CRAFT SKILL in PnP (albeit it is just to manufacture items but I don't see why it couldn't be used here). If you fail your craft skill check, you can not make the item in question for a weeks time.Oh, good, you can read my posts; I've mentioned that before.

[Geonis]

Don't forget that for every 1,000 GP of base value of an item, you take 1 day to craft. Thus your character making that 98,000 GP item (+5 Flaming Longsword of Pure Good) is unable to adventure for 98 days. :eek:

Also the XP costs would at least have to be multiplieed by 10 like the XP needed to level currently. This means that 98,000 GP sword above costs 39,200 XP which is far more doable than not being able to play your character for 98 days.

[Veltar]

But you already dislike DDO Lorien. ;)


Dont judge, just enjoy.


Drakia 15 Bard Argo, Veltar 14/1 Barb/Fighter Argo. Shantilie Lace 6 Scroc Argo

OrdosDraconum.net =)

[Rambin]

According to one of the producers comments in a video that can be seen at gametrailers.com. There are 1200 recipies currently in the game and they will be putting in more recipies with each mod. There is more to this crafting than the elite stuff, but no one is trying to find those recipies yet.

[studentx]

NO

You sure that's not a yes or a maybe? :p

Teasing, the NO(s) were a bit excessive though.

[Cinwulf]

I'm not surprised crafting is being introduced like this. The capped characters need something to keep them occupied. I don't care for the grind, but there it is: content in the form of crafting grind.

[CrazySamaritan]

You sure that's not a yes or a maybe? :p

Teasing, the NO(s) were a bit excessive though.

Try Jim Trott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6JCUc1Pi3M&NR=1