What Feat for 15?

[arminius]

I can't believe I'm down to the last day and have yet to seriously consider the level 15 feat for my two capped Human Paladins (one full, one a X/1 Pal/Sorc).

My Dwarf Cleric? Easy: Heighten. My Halfling Fighter? Psh, who cares, he has so many feats I can't even tell you what they are.

But the Paladins, they could really use something sparkly to perk them up a bit. Right now, they're pretty standard, I think. They currently have:

Weapon Focus Slash/Bludgeon
Toughness
Extend
Improved Crit Slash/Bludgeon

I guess I had assumed they'd be going with Improved Crit Piercing, for heavy picks and such. But now that time is short I was looking for something with a little more ZING. I don't want Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh, because I've already got a Khopesh-using Paladin/Fighter who takes all the best khopeshes I get. I don't want Power Attack, because I don't want to give up the To Hit, even against enemy trash.

So, what about Stunning Blow? Does it work? What are its drawbacks? Obviously it wouldn't work on Red Names but apart from that, does it work? Is the save decent? Is it one of those things that you can use it against casters but not fighters, etc (since it is a Fort save, right)? Is it one of those things like Smite Evil that you use and the mob moves and it gets wasted? I haven't seen people use it much generally. Why? It seems to me that it ought to be really cool, since anyone stunned not only can't act but also gets auto-critted (solving the Paladin achilles heal, DPS).

What other feats should I be considering, and why? What feats are you considering?

_

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

My strength based Warchanter Bard has Stunning Blow and I LOVE IT! However, yes, it is like how you described Smite Evil and it has a 10 second cooldown before you can use it again. But the nice thing is that when it works, you auto-crit them (like the Hold spell or FTS), once that happens, they drop fast.

I use it on my Bard the most when I solo, I gather a bunch of baddies, fascinate them and then proceed to Stunning Blow and kill them one at a time.

I think you will enjoy it, if you give it a go.

[Zenako]

My thoughts...being in somewhat the same spot with a capped human pure paly.

I don't worry about Extend. Too many of our spells get no real benefit from it, perhaps only Deathward. Waste of a feat for me.

Already have Improved Crit: Slash too

Not too worried about a single +1 to hit from the Weapon Focus: Slash so probably not.

Something like Toughness is a maybe. More HP is always useful, plus it opens up a few slots for the Paly Toughness Enhancements, which may or not work with the Minos Helm anyway...mmmm never thought about it...

If you spent AP on more LoH, you will also be getting some AP rebates to spend as well from all I can see.

If you cast a lot of spells, the Mental Toughness ones give you a Perk.

If you want to REALLY pump your saves and have a lot higher CHA than WIS then the new Force of Personality Feat might be useful, but only if you find you are failing saves. (I know my Bard is strongly considering that one since his CHA is 26 points higher than his WIS... 34 vs 8 and he is always getting into places he shouldn't and getting held or stunned....sigh).


Do you have the Cleave/Great Cleave type of attacks? Those can be "showy" if you want.

Really it is hard to be really showy as a melee....

[Vra]

Stunning Blow fort save DC: 10 base + Str modifier + Racial Tactics Enhancement + Class Enhancement = X

my stunning/trip specced dwarven fighter packs a SB with DC of 25, and with the named weighed thundering hammer its 33

without the hammer I can stun all casters if I can hit them(a few might save on elite settings) and with the hammer I stun orange named enemies and tank-types(giants are especially tough tho) 80% of the time I'd say on elite

note: using the warhammer gives in addition to the +8 to SB skill, a 4% chance to stun enemies when they are hit(almost as good as a vorpal on the chance, think its 1hit out of 22 or thereabout)

unless I really want to stun someone(named etc) I use a icy burst warhammer weighed 3%, a bit less weighed than the warhammer but its a bit higher dpswise on regular hits

[Wizzly_Bear]

unless youre a thf, i would be very surprised why you dont have cleave and great cleave. pallys generally sword and board, and clv/grt clv are invaluable for sword and board melee.

edit: just fyi, clv and grt clv are also excellent for thf, but only if you have the feats for it (fighters or mc with fighter)

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I ended up taking Cleave & Great Cleave at Level 15 with my Holy Avenger (Cleave with Fighter 2 Bonus, and Great Cleave as my main L15 feat, so that if I wanted to spec them out it would be easier).

I am having fun with them both... they are a great way to spread out damage, and maintain Aggro without Intimidation. Plus when you are using a Paralyzer/Disruptor, there is nothing better than wading in, popping a Cleave & Great Cleave, and seeing lots of Paralyzed mobs, or a couple of undead go green and die.

I thought long and hard about the 2 feats, considering Weapon Focus, SM/ISM, Force of Personality, ISB, more Toughness, and a few other feats, but ultimately settled on Cleave/Great Cleave for more Damage... and sofar I have not regretted it. They also seem to have a larger radius of attack, so I can use them to grab aggro on a mob that is walking past me... pop a Cleave, grab their aggro, and hold it so they don't go after my Cleric/Arcane.

Just my 0.02cp

[arminius]

This might be a super dumb question, but I thought Cleave was a subset of Great Cleave. Like the way you don't hit Human Versatility III and IV, you just hit IV. You hit both Cleave and Great Cleave? Or is Cleave subsumed into Great Cleave, so you meant Cleave/Great Cleave, whichever one has?

If activating both is needed/not redundant, I really told my son the wrong way to play his dwarf, heh.

_

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

They are 2 separate clickie-attacks, with separate timers (5 Sec & 15 Sec), and 2 different attack arcs. The game says it's 90 & 180, but I think it's more like 180 & 270... or something like that... not enough experience to tell, but I know Cleave is more than 90degrees arc.

You definately want to use both, cuz you can Cleave 3 Times for every Great Cleave

[Blazer]

They are 2 separate clickie-attacks, with separate timers (5 Sec & 15 Sec), and 2 different attack arcs. The game says it's 90 & 180, but I think it's more like 180 & 270... or something like that... not enough experience to tell, but I know Cleave is more than 90degrees arc.

You definately want to use both, cuz you can Cleave 3 Times for every Great Cleave

Minor correction - Great Cleave is actually 10 seconds. Whirlwind is 15 seconds. So it's 2 Cleaves per Great Cleave.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Cleave is definitely 180degrees as I just hit 2 mobs on either side of me earlier tonigt. I did not know GC and cleave were on different timers, that bears thought on. I went with force of personality in case the leet settings in MOD 6 have high dc spells.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Just to report back, I have not found that the Mob DC's have changed all that much. I still really only fail on a 1... but I haven't run much of the new stuff on Elite yet either... time will tell.

But I am loving Cleave & Great Cleave... wade into a bunch of constructs, pop a Cleave and Great Cleave and pray for a 17+, then watch them all disappear! But seriously, I am enjoying it, and it comes in quite handy (think of the bats in Coalescence Chamber)... not regretting my feat choices at all.