Will crafting improve or rune the game?

[osirisisis]

Alot of players play to loot I think.
I know I done more time on loot runs then everything eles combined
If U can craft any thing U want will that lower the population and players in play time after there board with the new content and able to craft there toons to fully loaded?

[Aspenor]

I imagine the really desireable collectibles will be rare.

[Emili]

I imagine the really desireable collectibles will be rare.

I concur, I think the ingredients for the most powerful effects will be a tad on the rare side... thus changing the scope of what we're looting for.

[llevenbaxx]

LOL I was just asking myself that after looking over the ingredients thread. It looked like alot was required to make even minor changes. My first thought was looks interesting, though I dont see myself scouring the landscape for a ton of different rare ingredients... ever.

If they keep it fairly simple I think they will get alot more ppl using it but at the same time it was meant to be a time sink to keep very active players interested. Then they have to make the benefits good enough to where ppl will want to bother but not too good as to be overpowered. It will be interesting to see if they get it right, I think it will be a real boon for the game if they do, heres hoping.

[Aspenor]

LOL I was just asking myself that after looking over the ingredients thread. It looked like alot was required to make even minor changes. My first thought was looks interesting, though I dont see myself scouring the landscape for a ton of different rare ingredients... ever.

If they keep it fairly simple I think they will get alot more ppl using it but at the same time it was meant to be a time sink to keep very active players interested. Then they have to make the benefits good enough to where ppl will want to bother but not too good as to be overpowered. It will be interesting to see if they get it right, I think it will be a real boon for the game if they do, heres hoping.

I think they expect us to spend hours farming the raid zone for them....

And I probably will. LOL

[Shaamis]

If they put rare ingredients in teh open area, it will be a farm-fest.

1) run into raid area
2) haste/displace/GH/etc/etc.
3) run to collectable, grab, and go.
4) repeat as needed.

but if they put it in an instance inside a dungeon, where mobs being killed are whats needed o get to the collectible...

Then it will be like Stormcleave Outpost for the first time all over agian (:))

[Aspenor]

If they put rare ingredients in teh open area, it will be a farm-fest.

1) run into raid area
2) haste/displace/GH/etc/etc.
3) run to collectable, grab, and go.
4) repeat as needed.

but if they put it in an instance inside a dungeon, where mobs being killed are whats needed o get to the collectible...

Then it will be like Stormcleave Outpost for the first time all over agian (:))

I think they will be in chests. You, the kind that don't open till you do something important.

[Riorik]

Crafting itself won't do anything by itself.

The player base has done this several times - as soon as a new area opens up, everyone runs it and only it (at least the capped characters) to the exclusion of everything else. Once a loot run is identified, everyone will start running that - (think Prison of the Planes where it was actually hard to find a group to play with because everyone, often, was already in a PoP group and didn't want to quit because they might lose a spot)

Also, much of your top end equipment, is going to become a little obsolete...this has everything to do with the level cap increase...that item you killed for...that you traded everything away to get...may have just dropped in value/price.

Again, however, this isn't the fault of crafting itself - it crafting didn't exist, it would be something else...it's just "planned obsolescence" built into the game system by design.

[Knightrose]

I doubt farming the ingredients will be any different from say farming either A. Tapestries or B. Tome/Shield pieces

The only difference to the ladder from the former being the former is much easier to obtain.

The casuals will likely complain there is too much time involved obtaining their coveted items and the egolites will probably complain that it isn't soloable.

[llevenbaxx]

I think they expect us to spend hours farming the raid zone for them....

And I probably will. LOL

If they make it seem like anything other than all out grinding for ingredients I may take part. If its like loot running but only for ingredients, I would be pretty dissappointed. Im not a huge loot runner, just enough to keep me in the black, I really dont see myself doubling up my loot running.

If they combine the two activities, or at least let you pick up some of the materials you need at a decent rate through standard adventuring, I would be a whole lot more likily to hunt down a couple missing items. All out material running for hours on end would really turn me off to the system, though I guess that would just mean I wasnt their targetted player. Will definitely wait to see it before passing judgement though. New content is new content after all.

Edit: Have not botherred completing a single tapestry or shield yet.

[McGraham]

Crafting will not RUIN the game. It may very well get players directed away from constant zurging of dungeons though.

[Knightrose]

I play to loot. I play DDO like Diablo II. 'lets go to Hell and farm rares!'

[Hendrik]

I look forward to crafting. Glad we are finally getting it. In EVERY MMO I have played I have always been 'the crafter' in the Guild. I will be here as well. Even if my Guildmates don't care to 'craft', I will be taking what they get so I may learn the ins and outs and find out what needs to be done so they can easily and quickly craft what they want for themselves.

Crafting will be a boost to those players that enjoy creating something and a bane to those that just can't manage to do it. It will up to us, the ones that like it, to handhold those that don't so they can create what they want. Sorry if that sounded rude, but that is how crafting has worked in my experience.

I hope we can get a special thread just for us crafters and what things we have discovered.

[ChildrenofBodom]

I think they expect us to spend hours farming the raid zone for them....

And I probably will. LOL

Mind if I join you?

I bet I will get in the raid before you. :p

[Cruzer]

It may ruin the game, but I am 100% sure that it will not rune the game.

I don't think crafting will ever take away from the game. The only way crafting could turn out badly is if every recipe we get isn't as good as something we can loot off something through grinding. If the best thing I can make is a +3 longsword of lesser ooze bane, then crafting would be kind of worthless.

Crafting gives something for capped people to do besides raid, or make new characters. Sure it can be a grind for materials, but so is running proof is in the poison for the 50th time or goodblades for the 3000th on your new build.

[Aspenor]

Mind if I join you?

I bet I will get in the raid before you. :p

You probably will because I have a job that I'm stuck at all day even when new content is released :rolleyes:

remember, the raid zone is the easiest to enter since tempest spine, aka, just walk in.

[ChildrenofBodom]

You probably will because I have a job that I'm stuck at all day even when new content is released :rolleyes:

remember, the raid zone is the easiest to enter since tempest spine, aka, just walk in.

Sorry to break your hopes and dreams Asp, but you can't just walk into the raid. :)

Here is how you get into the raid. Each quest has an end boss with a chest. Once you kill the end boss you get a 'Shavarath Stone' from the chest. You need each Shavarath stone from all 5 quests to get into the raid. Once you do all 5 quests and get each of the different Shavarath Stones (Example: Shavarath stone of Might, Shavarath Stone of Foresight, etc) you put all of them into the Eldritch device with a power cell to make a 'Shavarath Sigil Stone', and that's what you turn in to the quest giver to be raid ready.

Risia is your friend. :)

[jjflanigan]

You probably will because I have a job that I'm stuck at all day even when new content is released :rolleyes:

remember, the raid zone is the easiest to enter since tempest spine, aka, just walk in.

*sighs with Aspenor* Curses to us for having jobs that we have to work even when new content is released! I always wish I could take off on release days to dive into the new content :(

[Aspenor]

Sorry to break your hopes and dreams Asp, but you can't just walk into the raid. :)

Here is how you get into the raid. Each quest has an end boss with a chest. Once you kill the end boss you get a 'Shavarath Stone' from the chest. You need each Shavarath stone from all 5 quests to get into the raid. Once you do all 5 quests and get each of the different Shavarath Stones (Example: Shavarath stone of Might, Shavarath Stone of Foresight, etc) you put all of them into the Eldritch device with a power cell to make a 'Shavarath Sigil Stone', and that's what you turn in to the quest giver to be raid ready.

Risia is your friend. :)

/shrug

Okay, that's fine. I don't run Risia, I'd rather see content when it's released so it's new to me and my friends.

Milli != Friend :D:p

[ChildrenofBodom]

Milli != Friend :D:p

Lies!

Don't make me disband your guild again! ;) lol!

[llevenbaxx]

Sorry to break your hopes and dreams Asp, but you can't just walk into the raid. :)

Here is how you get into the raid. Each quest has an end boss with a chest. Once you kill the end boss you get a 'Shavarath Stone' from the chest. You need each Shavarath stone from all 5 quests to get into the raid. Once you do all 5 quests and get each of the different Shavarath Stones (Example: Shavarath stone of Might, Shavarath Stone of Foresight, etc) you put all of them into the Eldritch device with a power cell to make a 'Shavarath Sigil Stone', and that's what you turn in to the quest giver to be raid ready.

Risia is your friend. :)

Im assuming there is no guarentee of the stones dropping everytime too, right?

[ChildrenofBodom]

Im assuming there is no guarentee of the stones dropping everytime too, right?

On the Risia version, they dropped EVERY time for EVERYONE. They may change that when it goes live though, so you never know, but I highly doubt that.

They also keep showing up after you loot them once. I'm not sure why, used for crafting maybe...?

EDIT: Also, the end chest always had a crafting ingredient along with the Shavarath Stone.

[jjflanigan]

Im assuming there is no guarentee of the stones dropping everytime too, right?

I'm fairly certain, from my time on Risia and talking to other players, that the stones are a guaranteed drop for each person in the quest every time you run it. Each quest always provides 1 (and only 1) stone for each person. So you can't just run the same quest 5 times to try to get each of the 5 different stones, but as long as you run each quest one time to completion (and loot the end chest), you will get 1 of each stone.

[ChildrenofBodom]

I'm fairly certain, from my time on Risia and talking to other players, that the stones are a guaranteed drop for each person in the quest every time you run it. Each quest always provides 1 (and only 1) stone for each person. So you can't just run the same quest 5 times to try to get each of the 5 different stones, but as long as you run each quest one time to completion (and loot the end chest), you will get 1 of each stone.

Correct.

Each stone from each quest is a different color and has a different name like I said above.

They are all named Shavarath Stone of _________.

The only ones I can remember are foresight and might.

[MysticTheurge]

They also keep showing up after you loot them once. I'm not sure why, used for crafting maybe...?

So you can pass them, in chest, to friends who don't have them yet.

[ChildrenofBodom]

So you can pass them, in chest, to friends who don't have them yet.

Uh, what would be the point of that...?

Everyone gets one and you only need 1 from each quest....

And if you aren't in the instance when the chest is opened you can't loot anything from the chest.

[MysticTheurge]

Uh, what would be the point of that...?

Everyone gets one and you only need 1 from each quest....

Oh. Haha. Good point. :o

[ChildrenofBodom]

Oh. Haha. Good point. :o

:)

[llevenbaxx]

Uh, what would be the point of that...?

Everyone gets one and you only need 1 from each quest....

And if you aren't in the instance when the chest is opened you can't loot anything from the chest.

This is very good to hear. Im usually pretty lucky with those types of things, though I did have to run Fleshmakers 9 times to get a wing so I was a little worried they would stick with type of drop mechanic. Heres hoping it stays the same as Risia.

[Angelus_dead]

Alot of players play to loot I think.
I know I done more time on loot runs then everything eles combined
If there was unrestricted crafting like in PNP, then yes you are right, that would ruin the game.

If anyone could get a +3 Wounding Rapier of Puncturing just by pulling together enough plats to cover the list price, then a lot of incentive to quest would be removed for very many players. But hopefully Turbine was smarter than to shoot themselves like that.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

So whos gonna be the one to throw their vorpal longsword in with the Khyber shards and some other ingredient only to find out that what pops out is **** and ya shouldnt have used that once in a lifetime drop from the new raid on a longsword?

Guess I'll be farming and farming and waiting to see what recipes pop up here on the boards.

Whatever happened to the "Idiots Guide to Eldritch Devices" Q said was coming?

Q!!! Wheres my guide!!!

[CSFurious]

you are just looting what you need for the recipes now

still grinding for loot, now, you just make what you want if you can find or buy the recipe ingredients


Alot of players play to loot I think.
I know I done more time on loot runs then everything eles combined
If U can craft any thing U want will that lower the population and players in play time after there board with the new content and able to craft there toons to fully loaded?

[Dane_McArdy]

You probably will because I have a job that I'm stuck at all day even when new content is released :rolleyes:

remember, the raid zone is the easiest to enter since tempest spine, aka, just walk in.

I'm just calling in sick. Since I don't talk about DDO at work, no one is going to even suspect this is why I got sick.

He he he.

Helps I've been battling a cold and fever for over a week.

[BlueLightBandit]

Also, a small point of contention.

There will be multiple Eldrich (sp?) devices, and multiple levels of each device. There will be basic models in the Marketplace and in The Twelve. From what I'm understanding these can do more than just bind items, although I would totally understand if I'm wrong on that point.

There are higher level Eldrich devices within quests and raids, that can craft/add higher level items/effects.

New Raid = No Prereqs, so as it's been said already... = Just walk right in.

[MysticTheurge]

New Raid = No Prereqs, so as it's been said already... = Just walk right in.

Please point us to where this has been said.

(Or do you mean no reflagging?)

[ChildrenofBodom]

New Raid = No Prereqs, so as it's been said already... = Just walk right in.

This is incorrect. I have been on Risia and know for a FACT that there IS pre reqs.

You basically have to do all of the 5 quests once to get in the raid with a couple other comlications.

NEVER did they say it had no pre reqs. They just said it's been the easiest raid to get into SINCE tempest spine. That doesn't mean there aren't pre reqs.

[GHOSTRYDER]

This is incorrect. I have been on Risia and know for a FACT that there IS pre reqs.

You basically have to do all of the 5 quests once to get in the raid with a couple other comlications.

NEVER did they say it had no pre reqs. They just said it's been the easiest raid to get into SINCE tempest spine. That doesn't mean there aren't pre reqs.

Yea i think people took that comment wrong....just because it's the easiest SINCE tempest, doesnt mean it's as easy AS tempest...just easier than the other raids that followed

[oronisi]

Alot of players play to loot I think.
I know I done more time on loot runs then everything eles combined
If U can craft any thing U want will that lower the population and players in play time after there board with the new content and able to craft there toons to fully loaded?

It ALL depends on how crafting is implemented. If you can craft better items than loot without any looted components, that would be bad. If you couldn't craft items comparable to loot, it would be bad. If you can craft items that clearly overpower lootable items, that would be bad. If you can make a skiver with 3 other mods on it....I'll quit the game after posting so many flames on this board that I get banned for life.

So just wait and see. You only have to wait 1 more day.

[JayDubya]

Yea i think people took that comment wrong....just because it's the easiest SINCE tempest, doesnt mean it's as easy AS tempest...just easier than the other raids that followed

Conceptually, I understand that, but the idea of the Twilight Forge "preraid" and VoN5 as "preraid" strikes me as pretty arbitrary.

You can have up to 12 people in each
You have to complete the preraid before you can run the raid, each time.IMO, both VoN5 and The Twilight Forge should be considered "Raids, phase 1". In other words, they're part of the raid, they just have a their own XP bonus, and as you move forward, you lose your buffs.

Given how long The Shroud is (based on what I've heard), it seems comparable to the full Von5/6 and TF/TA experience.

In that light, Twilight Forge is easier to get into, because it only requires three preq quests, instead of 5.

Reasonable people can disagree, I suppose, but I would say that The Shroud is the easiest to get into since The Twilight Forge.

[BlueLightBandit]

Explain how no reFLAGGING makes it easier than say the Reaver? That quest has prereqs, but no reflagging. In order to make that EASIER, you could only limit the prereqs.

Since I'm under the understanding that this raid is for a wider level range, then does that mean that the new prerequisite quests are of a wider level range as well?

Also, since they said there were only five new quests, I made the assumption that many of the prereqs were either existing quests, as a lvl 10 character who is supposedly supposed to have access to the new raid, or not actually quests at all.

Assuming they are existing quests, most of my capped characters have run every quest, so they will just walk right in.
Assuming the prereqs are more collectible geared, then all they have to do is get the collectibles, and... bum-da-da-dum... walk right in.

So, unless the new raid that is intended for a wider range of levels, has lvl 14+ quests as prereqs, then I stand by my earlier comment. Otherwise, the new raid is JUST AS EASY as the reaver, thus making the new raid NOT the easiest since Tempest Spine, and the whole series of statements regarding the new raid by Turbine has been misleading.

[MysticTheurge]

Explain how no reFLAGGING makes it easier than say the Reaver? That quest has prereqs, but no reflagging. In order to make that EASIER, you could only limit the prereqs.

Well that's easy.

The Reaver requires 60 relics of varying types with 1-3 relics awarded per quest. At the minimum that's 20 runs of quests.

The Shroud requires 5 pieces of the Shavarath stone with each stone a guaranteed drop out of the end chest of each quest. That's 5 quests.

The Shroud is clearly easier to flag for.


Since I'm under the understanding that this raid is for a wider level range, then does that mean that the new prerequisite quests are of a wider level range as well?

You've been misinformed. The raid is for high level characters of any playstyle (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1536374#post1536374) (or "level of play style") but not for low level characters.

[ChildrenofBodom]

So, unless the new raid that is intended for a wider range of levels, has lvl 14+ quests as prereqs, then I stand by my earlier comment. Otherwise, the new raid is JUST AS EASY as the reaver, thus making the new raid NOT the easiest since Tempest Spine, and the whole series of statements regarding the new raid by Turbine has been misleading.

Ok, you are misunderstanding the meaning of the easiest SINCE tempest spine. What that means is it's the easiest raid to get into then the Dragon, Titan, Demon Queen, Reaver, and Abbot. THAT is what it means. It does NOT mean it is as easy to get into as tempest spine. People are misunderstanding.


Yea i think people took that comment wrong....just because it's the easiest SINCE tempest, doesnt mean it's as easy AS tempest...just easier than the other raids that followed

My point exactly. :)

Glad we are on the same page.

[Drfirewater79]

read abot half way down so sorry if i reapeated something

I think crafting the way they are planning is fine because yes they can drop the number of items required for vorpals and paralizers and disrupters and pucturing or what have you. but really everyone already has at least one vorpal paralizer or distuptor unless a) they dont play much or are new to the game. b) spend all there money on equipment for there lowbies or c) just got back to the game and missed out on four months of loot weekends last year. plus there are 1200 recipies at start meaning it should (short of fluke or leak) take a couple months if not years to figure out the required parts for weapon additions such as vorpal mainly cause no one will even see the one crucial peice until its too late and use it in another recipie at least for the first couple months assuming you do nothing but loot run for them.

if they made the crafting system like in DnD it would be worse cause yes you would have to have the feats and use your exp but once you where lvl 20 you would start seeing the inns flood with spams for stores not only from the spamers but from the players too selling there wares in LFM messages (which we already see and is a personal annoyance). cause people would create characters just for crafting and spend the bulk of there time crafting instead of questing.

I think if the focus turns to new weapon types constant content inceases and new classes and races and stops worrying about what to throw into a weapon as raid loot and what is usefull and what is not for what classes then it wont matter that everyone has a vorpal greater bane of every type ... caue they will start casting mass death ward and they will launch more undead and undecapitatable creatures to make up for it and who cares if people have a vorpal greataxe of disruption cause dc's will get higher and ac's are already getting higher.

I just hope the crafting system they launch will be the same as the raid craft system they are about to launch.

[Drfirewater79]

Ok, you are misunderstanding the meaning of the easiest SINCE tempest spine. What that means is it's the easiest raid to get into then the Dragon, Titan, Demon Queen, Reaver, and Abbot. THAT is what it means. It does NOT mean it is as easy to get into as tempest spine. People are misunderstanding.

My point exactly. :)

Glad we are on the same page.

it said easiest to get into ... meaning there are no pre req's to get into the raid area

are people really debating that?

its like tempest you go in and thats it no collecting relics or doing pointless missions like the von series no sigils or lost artifcats

its like tempest easy to get into meaning everyone can participate regardless of noobness

and really once the recipies get out there will be no more doing vons for the boots or doing reaver for the boots or titan for the ... you know why is it that the best items are mainly boots?

what i want to know is what is the limits of the additions can you continue to add things to items so one time you added holy burst to your vorpal greataxe and next tme you can add limbchopper and next time you can add greater bane or multiple greater banes and next time ghost touch and transmuting?

when does the crazyness stop and will adding items to a weapon change its base lvl value (cause if not i am gonna give a +1 rapier to my large toons and craft a lvl 2 seeker +10 wounding rapier of puncturing. and will we be able to craft items we cant use, like lvl 20 required madstone boots with seeker +10 and dex +6 instead of 4 nothing is worse then having to wear two dex items on a fighter.

and can someone answer this question can you edit bound items or just unbound items cause the only thing i have seen so far is a unbound bow. if ya cant edit bound items then people might still go raid hopping until they find the formula for life stealing and striding 30 and seeker +10.

[ChildrenofBodom]

it said easiest to get into ... meaning there are no pre req's to get into the raid area

are people really debating that?

its like tempest you go in and thats it no collecting relics or doing pointless missions like the von series no sigils or lost artifcats

its like tempest easy to get into meaning everyone can participate regardless of noobness



Ok, how many times do i have to explain this. I don't mean to offend, but I have said this before.

I HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON RISIA YOU HAVE TO COLLECT 5 SHAVARATH STONES TO GET INTO THE RAID. THERE IS PRE REQS.

It is NOT as easy to get into as tempest spine. Like I have said about 3 times, it's the easiest raid SINCE TEMPEST SPINE. That means it's easier then everything AFTER tempest.

Sorry if I come off as rude, but I have been on Risia, I don't THINK this is the case, it's FACT.

Unless they change the raid to where you don't have to do the other 5 quests, but on risia that's how it was and I HIGHLY doubt it will change.

:)

[MysticTheurge]

It is NOT as easy to get into as tempest spine. Like I have said about 3 times, it's the easiest raid SINCE TEMPEST SPINE. That means it's easier then everything AFTER tempest.

Which is, itself, debatable.

It seems to me that getting to the Titan raid is easier (3 quests vs. 5 quests), though it does depend on whether you consider Twilight Forge + Titan Awakes to be "The Raid" or if you only think of Titan Awakes as "The Raid."

[ChildrenofBodom]

Which is, itself, debatable.

It seems to me that getting to the Titan raid is easier (3 quests vs. 5 quests), though it does depend on whether you consider Twilight Forge + Titan Awakes to be "The Raid" or if you only think of Titan Awakes as "The Raid."

I call the Twilight Forge the "Pre Raid" personally.

Also, my first sentence of what you quoted me actually is not debatable. It is not as easy to get into as tempest spine.

EDIT: Also, it's pretty hard to find goups for those quests. I'm sure when the mod comes out it won't be too hard to find a group for them. So, in my opinion, the new 5 quests will be easier then the old 3 quests.

[MysticTheurge]

I call the Twilight Forge the "Pre Raid" personally.

Yeah, but it's still a 12-person quest.

And from the sounds of it, in the Shroud you don't face off against a Purple-name (if that's our criteria for "raid") until the fourth or fifth part of this new raid.

That means it's still harder to get to "the raid."

[ArkoHighStar]

Explain how no reFLAGGING makes it easier than say the Reaver? That quest has prereqs, but no reflagging. In order to make that EASIER, you could only limit the prereqs.

Since I'm under the understanding that this raid is for a wider level range, then does that mean that the new prerequisite quests are of a wider level range as well?

Also, since they said there were only five new quests, I made the assumption that many of the prereqs were either existing quests, as a lvl 10 character who is supposedly supposed to have access to the new raid, or not actually quests at all.

Assuming they are existing quests, most of my capped characters have run every quest, so they will just walk right in.
Assuming the prereqs are more collectible geared, then all they have to do is get the collectibles, and... bum-da-da-dum... walk right in.

So, unless the new raid that is intended for a wider range of levels, has lvl 14+ quests as prereqs, then I stand by my earlier comment. Otherwise, the new raid is JUST AS EASY as the reaver, thus making the new raid NOT the easiest since Tempest Spine, and the whole series of statements regarding the new raid by Turbine has been misleading.


the term for all levels was also misconstrued, what they meant, was all level of player types, from casual to elite player will enjoy the raid and be able to complete it. All the pre reqs are lvl 16 quests on normal, and as has been pointed out you only do each once and you can enter the raid. The whole easiest since Tempest or TF is debatable, but who cares do the quests once and you are in. The advantage to doing each quest, is that you fight in all quests the same mobs that you will see in the raid, so as they have pointed out you can already tell what is the best technique for killing them. The raid has multiple stages(not sure if you can stop at each stage yet) and at each stage there is an eldritch machine, each one more powerful than the one before.

The reaver has a mucher steeper requirement for entry, but once you are ther is the easiest raid to do over and over, and that is the only similiarity

[ChildrenofBodom]

And from the sounds of it, in the Shroud you don't face off against a Purple-name (if that's our criteria for "raid") until the fourth or fifth part of this new raid.

That means it's still harder to get to "the raid."

I guess tomorrow we will find out huh? :)

Btw, re-check above post, I might have edited after you posted. :p

[ArkoHighStar]

Yeah, but it's still a 12-person quest.

And from the sounds of it, in the Shroud you don't face off against a Purple-name (if that's our criteria for "raid") until the fourth or fifth part of this new raid.

That means it's still harder to get to "the raid."


the real question is a little more complicated, and that is really what does a stage mean, does it mean you can finish out and come back in at this point if you want, or is it simply a checkpoint in the raid that if you leave must be restarted like all other quests. If it is all one quest and you can't leave then it is a raid just like Tempest Spine is a raid, just like we all asked for, and we do fight a purple named just at the end thsi time, just like Tempest Spine.