Bardic Archer

[Coldin]

*For those that are purely interested in the numbers, scroll down to the build below.*

Basically, the purpose of this build is to create a pure bard that maintains superb spell-casting skills and potent bardic music, while also excelling in the use of the bow.

I'm using a 32-point build Elf here, but a 28 build would work nearly as well. If you only have 28 point builds, I'd recommend either trying this out as a drow, or lowering Int or Str, or if you're feeling brave Con, in order to keep Dex and Cha at least 16 or 17. I've also used both a +1 Cha tome and a +1 Dex to boost those up to even numbers, but that's not really required.

This particular build does not take any metamagic feats. Extend I've found to be increasingly pointless in higher end quests as mobs frequently cast greater dispel. I have taken Mental Toughness to cast a few extra spells per rest to make up the difference, as well as open up Spellsinger. Heighten is an adequate replacement though, and if you prefer using many CC spells, it's a fine alternative.

Most feats are arranged to boost ranged combat as quickly as possible. Point-blank shot and Rapid shot are taken by 3rd level, giving a much needed boost in speed at low levels. You'll still want to keep a sword and shield handy though as many low level quests are in very confined areas and leave little room to maneuver. Tumble helps out here as it lets you quickly move around the area and dodge attacks. Tumble will also help later on as it lets you dodge enemy missiles while reloading.

By the end of 6th level, you should have Spellsinger, which you should see a significant increase in the capabilities of your bard. By level 9, you'll finally have a +6 BaB, and can qualify for Manyshot. I strongly suggest taking this now instead of waiting for level 12, as you'll instantly see a big increase in damage output.

At level 12, I'm suggesting taking Precise Shot. It sets the road for Imp Precise Shot later on, plus it's always nice to single out a target like a caster to take them out quick. It's really handy when you happen to land a hold spell on a monster that's surrounded.

At level 15, the feat choice is going to come down to how lucky you've been. If you've manage to secure a +2 Dex tome, either from a raid or 1750 favor, then take Imp Precise Shot. If you haven't been so lucky, then I suggest to take Weapon Focus: Ranged. This will open up Arcane Archer for you, giving you an endless supply of +1 or better arrows. It's not really the strongest feat out there, but it will save you loads of inventory space plus some cash. Alternatively, pick up a metamagic feat or Imp Mental Toughness.

For level ability increases, I recommend going Cha every time. You're always going to want to keep your Spell DCs as high as you can get them and one point not in Cha is that much more chance your spell won't land.

As far as enhancements go, first make your way to getting Spellsinger as well as increasing your songs as much as you can. Also, invest in a few of the Elven Ranged Enhancements as well as the Dex Enhancements as needed. If you desire, take a few of the Spell Penetration enhancements to fight against SR, or Elven Enchantment Resistant to offset the lower will save. I've outlined some enhancements to take around various levels in the build below.

Take a look at the build below, and please share your thoughts.



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Bardic Archer
Level 16 Chaotic Good Elf Male
(16 Bard)
Hit Points: 116
Spell Points: 845
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 14
Will: 9

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16) (Level 16)
Strength 9 9 9
Dexterity 17 18 19
Constitution 10 10 10
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 17 22 24

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 4 4
Bluff 6 21
Concentration 4 19
Diplomacy 6 21
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 8 26
Heal -1 -1
Hide 4 4
Intimidate 4 7
Jump 3 18
Listen 3 18
Move Silently 4 4
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 8 26
Repair 2 2
Search 2 2
Spot -1 -1
Swim -1 -1
Tumble 8 14
Use Magic Device 8 26

Notable Equipment
Ring: Dextrous Ring
Ring: Ogre Power Ring
Cloak: Charismatic Cloak

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot

Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot

Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Bard Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot

Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons

Level 16 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Spell Penetration I

[EinarMal]

What about improved critical range? Doesn't that have to be in there somewhere? You talk about weapon focus ranged over IC ranged???

[geezee]

Drow would have better stats on this build.

[Coldin]

What about improved critical range? Doesn't that have to be in there somewhere? You talk about weapon focus ranged over IC ranged???

I recommended taking Weapon Focus Ranged because it lets you take the Arcane Archer Enhancements. With bows, Improved Crit is only boosting your crit range by one, which is frankly not worth it to me. Since you'll have access to hold spells, you can get all the crits you like. That being said, if you want to, IC: Ranged would still be a fine feat to take at level 15.


Drow would have better stats on this build.

Yes, it could achieve a better base stats, and if you don't have access to 32 point builds, you should go Drow. But I chose Elf for 2 reasons. First is the automatic proficiency with Longbows. Second, is that Elves get Enhancements to increase Attack and Damage with bows, where Drow do not. Plus, by being Elf, you always have to option of picking up Arcane Archer.

[RichD]

I recommended taking Weapon Focus Ranged because it lets you take the Arcane Archer Enhancements. With bows, Improved Crit is only boosting your crit range by one, which is frankly not worth it to me. Since you'll have access to hold spells, you can get all the crits you like. That being said, if you want to, IC: Ranged would still be a fine feat to take at level 15.

Am I missing something, I thought the Arcane Archer Enhancements were only available to Rangers as a specialty? This is a pure Bard build.

[Coldin]

Am I missing something, I thought the Arcane Archer Enhancements were only available to Rangers as a specialty? This is a pure Bard build.

Indeed, you are missing something. The requirements for Arcane Archer is to be either a 6th level Ranger, OR a 9th level Elf. Elves still qualify, but are 3 levels behind their ranger counterparts.

[geezee]

Just because someone has access to hold monster, that doesnt make improved crit any less useful.

[Perryc]

Question: The net difference in the To Hit scores between the build posted by the OP and one with max Dex is -5. Since ranged attacks are based on Dex, in terms of game play, is this difference meaningful? Also, since the damage for ranged attacks is based on Str, will this build deal enough damage, with at best a +2 modifier, to be effective? Granted, the bard songs will add +8/+6 to the To Hit and Damage rolls; but is that enough?

You'll still want to keep a sword and shield handy though as many low level quests are in very confined areas and leave little room to maneuver.
With a 9 Str, isn't going with a "Sword and Board" kind of like the cop telling the bad guy "Stop, or I'll yell stop again!"?

With bows, Improved Crit is only boosting your crit range by one, which is frankly not worth it to me. Since you'll have access to hold spells, you can get all the crits you like.
This seems like it would work on one or two mobs at a time, providing they aren't immune, but what about spiders, warforged, golems, and the seemingly endless supply of undead?

As for the Crowd Control aspect of the build, a potential Cha of 32 does seem to bode well. IME, at the higher levels, the majority of the mobs have some degree of Spell Resistance. Does the Spell Penetration I enhancemnet provide enough benefit to overcome this SR? With end game content, will a spell like Hold Monster land often enough to be meaningful without more Spell Penetration or the Heighten feat?

[Coldin]

Question: The net difference in the To Hit scores between the build posted by the OP and one with max Dex is -5. Since ranged attacks are based on Dex, in terms of game play, is this difference meaningful? Also, since the damage for ranged attacks is based on Str, will this build deal enough damage, with at best a +2 modifier, to be effective? Granted, the bard songs will add +8/+6 to the To Hit and Damage rolls; but is that enough?


Well, without investing in at least a level in ranger, you're not going to be able to deal Str damage with the bow anyway. So, you will be using the bardic songs to boost up that damage. The build will always trail a little bit behind a ranger specced out for ranged combat, but the difference shouldn't be all that noticeable.



With a 9 Str, isn't going with a "Sword and Board" kind of like the cop telling the bad guy "Stop, or I'll yell stop again!"?

Well, at the lower levels, it never hurts to boost your AC a little. You'll still want to use the bow most of the time, but if monsters are getting in close, you're going to want that extra AC.


This seems like it would work on one or two mobs at a time, providing they aren't immune, but what about spiders, warforged, golems, and the seemingly endless supply of undead?

I suppose it's more just personal preference. I don't see a huge benefit from Imp. Crit with bows, but I guess others might. Golems and Undead cannot be crited anyway though.



As for the Crowd Control aspect of the build, a potential Cha of 32 does seem to bode well. IME, at the higher levels, the majority of the mobs have some degree of Spell Resistance. Does the Spell Penetration I enhancemnet provide enough benefit to overcome this SR? With end game content, will a spell like Hold Monster land often enough to be meaningful without more Spell Penetration or the Heighten feat?

Well, on my current Bard, who happens to only have a 28 Cha (with enchantment bracers), I land pretty much any spell often enough. I don't think a 32 Cha will have any problems. As for SR, depending on the difficulties, you might want Spell Penetration II or III, but then it might just be better to take out a Spell Penetration item and save those APs for something else.

[CSFurious]

even for rangers

i looked at your signature line, no rangers rolled

i think that you should just roll a ranger & have fun with that as they are a fun class to play

[Coldin]

even for rangers

so to roll this build makes about as much sense as trying to empty to the ocean with a spoon

however, if you like to punish yourself, this is a great build for that purpose

Ouch, harsh.


i looked at your signature line, no rangers rolled

i think that you should just roll a ranger & have fun with that as they are a fun class to play

I do in fact have a ranger. A level 7 Drow ranger in fact. He's just not listed on my sig due to space limitations.

[CSFurious]

it was harsh, i am not a diplomat

i edited my op because it was too harsh, you seem like a nice person

you have a ranger, just play your ranger

bards can do a little of everything, but they excel at crowd-control, buffing & some dps with melee combat if designed for it

rangers are called rangers for a reason, i.e., leave the ranging to them


Ouch, harsh.


I do in fact have a ranger. A level 7 Drow ranger in fact. He's just not listed on my sig due to space limitations.

[Coldin]

it was harsh, i am not a diplomat

you have a ranger, just play your ranger

bards can do a little of everything, but they excel at crowd-control, buffing & some dps with melee combat if designed for it

rangers are called rangers for a reason, i.e., leave the ranging to them

Ah, but that's the whole point of this build. It's a bard that will still be very capable with CC and Buffs, but instead of doing melee combat, it's designed to be a formidable ranged combatant. Sure, it may not do as much DPS as the melee bards, but you'll be back away from the front-line and free to cast spells without being trampled.

[EinarMal]

it's designed to be a formidable ranged combatant.

Ah but that is the tricky part! The problem is you are using a lot of feats to boost a rather dubious choice for fighting. At high levels you are going to need a lot of effects type bows, cursespewing, w-p, banishing etc...

That is why IC ranged can be pretty good, regardless you are not going to do a lot of DPS in the grand scheme of things.

That is why I always say just go repeater since DPS will not be that great, because it takes less feats. You do get stuck in the animation but it isn't that bad.

Heavy Repeater
IC Ranged

Done....and you actually will do even better with critical effects type weapons. If you can aquire a w-p repeater at some point you will actually be able to drop mobs fairly fast with a repeater.

[CSFurious]

i would rather fight melee than ranged


Ah, but that's the whole point of this build. It's a bard that will still be very capable with CC and Buffs, but instead of doing melee combat, it's designed to be a formidable ranged combatant. Sure, it may not do as much DPS as the melee bards, but you'll be back away from the front-line and free to cast spells without being trampled.

[skraus1]

I love bards. However, a big reason I thought bard's sucked for the longest time is because most at the time were either ranged or had a very low str and few hp.

I have had a couple capped rangers and a ranged rogue, but they simply are not as strong as melee bards. Maybe with the new improvements in ranged attacks this would change, but until it does, I can't recommend taking a ranged approach.