What you wish other classes knew about rogues...

[Therbjorn]

Well after doing STK and several others so many times as a rogue in the past two days, I thought I would make this thread. I don''t know if any other classes will read this, but I thought it might be able to ease some of the frustration some rogues have.

I'll start with a few.

When I say "trap" don't keep running. Please, STOP MOVING!

Although waiting for a stealthed rogue or a rogue to find secret doors and the like can take a while, usually it pays off. Think of it this way, you get a nice reward for standing there while the rogue does his/her thing.

Take it away fellow rogues!

[Rameses]

What do I want people that only play any other class than a Rogue to know...???

1.) the Rogue is not a Scout. Stop asking me to Stealth ahead.
2.) the Rogue is not a trap-Monkey. Rogues are quit effective in melee.
3.) the Rogue is not as Squishee as a Wizard. Well most good Rogues are not.
4.) the Rogue does not care if you run through traps. He's/she's not taking damage when he/she runs through them.
5.) the Rogue class is quite effective in MELEE. Other melees need to learn who to hold mob aggro.


take it away Rogues.

I am, Rameses!

[adamkatt]

This game is almost 2 years old now.. so when i roll up a new rogue i rarely say Trap.. since no one listens..

They should know where all the traps are by now anyways...

[Vizzini]

Amen!! I hate it when people get all indigent when my Paladin runs through the traps.. People My saves are through the roof! If I can make it shut the hell up and leave me alone! The Rogue will get the trap on their own time, no harm in me charging blindy in to deliver some swift death to the baddies on the other side!



4.) the Rogue does not care if you run through traps. He's/she's not taking damage when he/she runs through them.

[Kiranselie]

What do I want people that only play any other class than a Rogue to know...???

1.) the Rogue is not a Scout. Stop asking me to Stealth ahead.
2.) the Rogue is not a trap-Monkey. Rogues are quit effective in melee.
3.) the Rogue is not as Squishee as a Wizard. Well most good Rogues are not.
4.) the Rogue does not care if you run through traps. He's/she's not taking damage when he/she runs through them.
5.) the Rogue class is quite effective in MELEE. Other melees need to learn who to hold mob aggro.


take it away Rogues.

I am, Rameses!

All of this, and further, the rogue is not responsible for keeping you alive. Buy Pots, lots and lots of pots. Just because you see me toss a heal on myself, do not expect nor ask for one unless you supplied your own scroll. The exception are cleric's, but that is all.

[Arnya]

1: The rogue will probably take your melee's agro within about 0.34 seconds of sneak attacking. Learn how to get it back.

2: You may think the rogue's DPS is pathetic, until the mob dies at half HP.

3: The hardest trap boxes to disarm are the ones YOU are jumping up and down in front of.

4: Yes, we do want those scrolls and wands you leave in chests and yes we can use them.

5: We can see the stealthed mobs you just let get through to the casters. We can even let you know if you want to listen.

[Nevthial]

1. My rogue is a scout. Stay behind me. ( Or I cannot warn you of the hidden creatures that are surrounding you as I watch. )
2. Yes, my rogue jumped over the line to the enemy spellcaster. And, yes it is already dead.
3. It is difficult to select the control box when everyone is in front of it. ( As stated previously. )
4. Yes, I survived the party wipe and am currently hiding. I will get your stones when the opportunity arises.
5. Yes, I'm wearing fearsome armour. No, I won't chase them down into unknown territory.
6. I'm a low down dirty scoundrel and you need me, duh! ( Guild only runs where my rogue does something selfish.)
7. Yes, I just locked myself in the shrine/secret door. Kill everything on the other side and I will open that chest. ( see above)

Seriously, number 3 is my main pet peeve. I know, I know, have patience.

[Lithic]

1) I have no problem letting you multiclass mutts search and disable the traps. I'll be over there killing/raisingdead/sneaking/dancingonthecorpsesofthosewhoranthroughthetrap if you need me.

[Caelan]

1) I have no problem letting you multiclass mutts search and disable the traps. I'll be over there killing/raisingdead/sneaking/dancingonthecorpsesofthosewhoranthroughthetrap if you need me.

see, for me, this annoys me. especially when they have to boost and try over and over to get something. or worse, blow up the control panel. if there is a full rogue who is definitely a disarm/open style rogue (not a melee rogue), let them do their thing! if they are dual wielding shaman and trolls into bits and pieces quicker than a barbarian enraged, then go ahead and step in... otherwise, leave it alone!

also bugs me when idiots quote the kill counts. especially on my rogue sporting a repeater. i purposefully switch targets to keep aggro off of me. the natural result of that is low kill counts. not because i'm not contributing but i'm not a **** glory hound. okay, i am... but not in this instance! :D

[Therbjorn]

also bugs me when idiots quote the kill counts. especially on my rogue sporting a repeater. i purposefully switch targets to keep aggro off of me. the natural result of that is low kill counts. not because i'm not contributing but i'm not a **** glory hound. okay, i am... but not in this instance! :D

Exactly. Just because I got half as many kills as you did doesn't mean I fought half the time as you. There was a reason that you could one shot everything, and that reason was not that you are awesome. A lot of people scold me for running around and getting a hit on this guy and then hitting that guy. They say if I just had a single target it would be better. Well if I did have a single target I would probably end up dead because (as stated earlier) a lot of people have no idea how to get aggro back if they lost it.

[unionyes]

1. Go ahead and run through the traps. If you die or take tons of damage (that you can't take care of yourself) that's between you and the cleric......who was probably waiting for the trap to be disarmed so they didn't have to waste manna on healing themselves. If you have wicked saves, or enough hp and pots to stay alive and heal yourself after you take damage, then do what you wanna do. Just don't make the cleric burn through wands or manna to fix you up because you couldn't be bothered to wait for a few seconds for the disarm. The cleric may need that manna to heal me up after I don't quite take out the mob with one sneak attack and the tanks didn't follow number 2.

2. Hit that intimidate hotkey all the time. Nothing does my heart good more than seeing that symbol over the heads of the mobs (followed by the multiple red numbers above their heads from my sneak attack). BTW, I use (like a lot of rogues) con or str damaging weapons in one hand. If they live through our combined first attack, they won't be up for long.

3. If you have a splash of rogue in you, feel free to do the traps. Honestly, you can probably get most of them if we are on a level appropriate quest, especially if you have decent equipment. If you blow one, expect a tell from me asking what your disable is, and telling you what mine is. If mine is higher then let me do them. If yours is higher, then knock yourself out. Same for opening locks. We all roll ones from time to time, but why wait for an 18 when I can do it with a 3?

4. If I say my spot has gone off, then stop please, or fall into 1 above. And please don't set the trap off while I am actually in the process of disabling it. Since I am wearing light armour (or a robe) and have less hp than the barbarian, I will probably find that secret door and then step back from it. Go ahead and open it. The troll on the other side is all yours (until you get aggro, then I will jump in). And also, if you go THROUGH a fire trap as I am saying 'trap', please don't come BACK THROUGH it and take damage twice.

5. If I get aggro, I will probably start to look like a sorc or wizzie, jumping back and forth over the tanks. Hit him, please. Also, feel free to stay in the same spot, I will bring him back to you. Don't run in a circle trying to catch him while he is trying to catch me, and I am trying to catch you. Or, you could do #2.

6. Yes, I can heal. Myself for the most part, and the cleric if he goes down. Of course, there is a fail chance on my UMD, so I get less bang for my plat healing wise. Go ahead and give me a wand if you like, healing, buffing, whatever. I will do my best to cast stuff on you with it, when I have a chance, but the fail rate is the same when I am casting it on you as when I am casting on me.

5. I have Way of the Mechanic, so I can heal the WF somewhat. If you hear me ask you to hold still, and then it looks like I am retying your shoe laces, stand still please. Otherwise I lose that use of repair construct, and you don't get anything. Hold still for a second, and you will get about 60 hp back over 30 seconds each time I do it. They even overlap, so if you have 250 hp I can do it 4 times back to back and you will be near full health even if you were incapped.

6. Those **** low level scrolls and wands you leave in the chests are what I like. My UMD is pretty good, but I also quite effectively use low level wands and scrolls. Kinda enjoyed the STK group I was in last week when I finished the giant off with my wand of magic missile after the caster ran out of manna too soon. Yeah, firewall beats the **** out of magic missile, but it is awful handy to have those lowbie spells handy from time to time.

7. You want me in your party, no matter what quest you are doing. I can do all sorts of stuff besides traps. If you figure no traps means no need for a rogue, have fun. Things do go better with a good rogue in the party, though.

[Ironwind]

Amen!! I hate it when people get all indigent when my Paladin runs through the traps.. People My saves are through the roof! If I can make it shut the hell up and leave me alone! The Rogue will get the trap on their own time, no harm in me charging blindy in to deliver some swift death to the baddies on the other side!

I have been told that a trap is harder to disable once some idiot sets it off.
Is this true?

[Shamguard]

There is only one thing that I wish other classes/players knew about rogues:

All the best players play rogues and play them well.:cool:

This is why a good rogue is need no matter what quest you are on.
If you have a good rogue you probably have a good player who will help in ways well beyond what his character can do.

Let's face it when things go bad it's not about what you can do as a character that will help save a quest.
It's what you bring as a player in helping the group recover and regroup, that makes a difference.
Most classes have a playstyle that goes with the character, a good rogue will have to have multiple playstyles so he can adapt to the party he is in. It takes a player who can identify what type of party he is in and then play the way that best helps that party succeed.

FYI: when a someone tries to show off his kill count I like to point out the 10% xp bonus we got for all the traps I disabled, while his kill total alone wasn't even worth 5% of the kill bonus.:p

[Ironwind]

see, for me, this annoys me. especially when they have to boost and try over and over to get something. or worse, blow up the control panel. if there is a full rogue who is definitely a disarm/open style rogue (not a melee rogue), let them do their thing! if they are dual wielding shaman and trolls into bits and pieces quicker than a barbarian enraged, then go ahead and step in... otherwise, leave it alone!

also bugs me when idiots quote the kill counts. especially on my rogue sporting a repeater. i purposefully switch targets to keep aggro off of me. the natural result of that is low kill counts. not because i'm not contributing but i'm not a **** glory hound. okay, i am... but not in this instance! :D

Caelan, I gotta agree with you.
Every time I see a 7 fighter/2 rogue go for the trap box when there is a 10 rogue in the party, I cringe.

[Shamguard]

I have been told that a trap is harder to disable once some idiot sets it off.
Is this true?

Depends upon the trap.
Some of the traps the box is inside the trap AoE so you have to find the sweet spot to disable it without getting interupted.

[Therbjorn]

And another.

When I say "Don't follow me", that means I am running through the trap (which can't hit me because of my saves) to get to the other side where the box is. I hate saying it then getting to the end and see a dead party member in the middle of it and two almost dead ones standing next to me. Wait for me to disable it before you start running. This goes back to the "when I say trap, you stop" thing.

[GuitarHero]

Trapsmithing is boring... Yeah, i can disable traps, and quite effectively! If you want to take 1 level of rogue, and devote every feat and spare enhancement, as well as a fortune in gear, to have a 35% chance of doing what i can do 100% of the time even when i'm cursed/feebleminded/sleeping, be my guest. Just don't screw up, because if you do, i'm gonna laugh at you. And for the love of everything holy, don't you dare say, "I'm a rogue, too," because you're not. You are a trapmonkey. A fireball slinging trapmonkey, but a trapmonkey none-the-less. I am a rogue. I am a lock-jimmying, trap-popping, neck stabbing, shadow stalking rogue with two knives that can deal more damage than most greataxes, and all i need is a distraction.... And you just happen to be a distraction enough for me, so get to it, trapmonkey boy....

[gamer111]

When I am the lowest level in the party and doing a quest 4 lvls or more higher than my Lvl, give me chance to do my job instead of criticizing what you obviously can not achieve with all you talking!!! If your a tank and its taking 2 clerics to keep you up don't Bi** about a rogue needing 2 tries to disarm. If you can do better roll one up!!! :)

[Lorien]

* We are a force to reckon with if properly geared and built. Many of us believe we should not be labeled "squishy". We can easily obtain a standing AC in the mid 40's(before boosts) and hitpoints near 300.

* We have the potential to deal an insane amount of damage, so much in fact that we "will" gain aggro from any other melee class if not careful. Trading aggro with Barb's is a favorite passtime.

* We could care less about traps as they do not affect us and we understand why others zerg through them. But ... If ya need it done ... just ask as we are more than happy to oblige. (I can only speak for myself here .... but I am the laziest and stingiest rogue I know, and have a tendency to just heal someone if they take trap damage as it can be done on the fly and way quicker than going through te mechanics of disabling a trap. Ya..heal scrolls are expensive but, it rarely happens anyway :P )

* Many of us can use any wand or scroll in the game (In some cases .. without fail). We sympathize with clerics though, and realize how expensive it can be. If you want a Greater Hero, Greater Teleport, or a Heal .. we have no problem with that ... just make sure you fork over the scrolls :)

* We can sneak past a CR20 critter and steal his **** without notice. Use this to your advantage.

* We love all things shiney. We will snag gold, pots and weapons from your broken barrels in a blink of an eye if we notice any hesitation on your part. (OK .. maybe thats just me. I can't help it.)

* Rogue is a difficult class that is not easily mastered. We understand that the proof is in the puddin. Just give us a chance. Good rogues are great to have around, but Great rogues are an asset to any party.

[ThePage311]

How come, until this week, no rogue had ever told me a blind creature always takes sneak attack damage!? I've been playing off/on since beta and never knew this.

I like spells. I like to play spell casters. While some have been rerolled or turned into mules, over the course of ~2 years I've leveled two wizards and two sorcerers to the cap...

WITHOUT GLITTERDUST

... and I blame every rogue I've ever grouped with. Shame on all of you!

BTW: The bard I'm playing up now does have the spell and its fricken sweet. I've added it to my wizard's spell load and i'm also trying to sneak it in for my sorcerer.

[llevenbaxx]

Caelan, I gotta agree with you.
Every time I see a 7 fighter/2 rogue go for the trap box when there is a 10 rogue in the party, I cringe.

Why?:) He/She might just have a better overall check that the rogue 10. Of all the classes, I would expect the rogues to be the most open minded players, interesting to see such a lack there of.

I could care less if people run through the traps. Care less if they are doing all the killing on the other side of the trap. If experience is still needed I will still disable them, I am patient.

Just becasue I am near the top of the kill list doesnt mean I am stealing kills, it means Im doing something right. If nothing is even swinging at me, all the better.

The success of the quest is all that matters, aside from maybe the ease at which it was achieved. A good rogue can suppliment anything a group may be lacking.

[Aspenor]

Aerren to all non-rogues:
"See the pink icon with the sneaky guy?? That means I don't die. Ever."