My "HoldMaster" Build

[freebird]

Hi All, just wanted to start by saying thanks for all of the good info on this board. I am currently leveling my first Bard and I must say I won't be going back to any other class anytime soon.

With this build I was trying to accomplish:

1)Respectable DPS (He is first and foremost a front-line build)
2)Ability to hit "Hold Monster" at a good clip (This is key for this build!!!!!!!!!!!)
3)Good Mana pool to support offensive casting
4)Good Solo Ability
5)Sell Sufficient
6)Decent Healing
7)Ability to CC close to the level of a Pure Spellslinger without giving up too much Melee ability.

(Yep, I know it is alot)

Anyway at level 12 he has turned out to be a blast to play....

He looks something like this (I don't have access to the game right now so I am going off of memory) Let me say, I know there is not much groundbreaking here just a very Strong/versitile Build.

Drow
11Bard/2Ftr/1 Sorc

Str 16 (+6 Item/ +2 Rage/+1Lvl/+1Ftr Str Enh/ +2 1750 tome) = 28
Dex 12
Con 12 (+6 Item) = 18
Itel 10
Wis 8
Cha 18 (+6 Item/+2 Lvls/+3 Enh/+1 Tome)= 30


Progression:

1 Bard
2 Ftr
3-11 bard
12 Sorc
13 bard
14 Ftr

Feats: Extend/Power Attack/THF/SF Enchantment/UMD/IC Slashing/ITHF
With the Level of Sorc I Get Magical Training so I am planning on Dropping SF Enhancement and taking Empower Healing to beef up my healing ability.(While Keeping SpellSlinger)

UMD 40-41

SP: 963 at lvl 12 1000+ at 14 (The Lvl of sorc was a much needed 250 Ish SP Bump)

AC 15 Ish :)

HP 174 at Lvl 12...Don't stop reading, you can be a "Tank" without having 400+ hp.


Spells:
Displacement
Haste
Hold Monster (Again this is a must for this build)
Dancing Ball
Good Hope
Best Healing spell for your level.
Suggestion
Whatever else you like.

Enhancements:
Spellslinger is the big one.
Ftr Attack Boost
Ftr Haste Boost
Ftr Str 1
ASF 1
Slinger pre-reqs
Maxed SP Enchancement
Whatever else you like.

Skill points:
Concentration
Jump
Balance
Perform
UMD


Weapons: Carnifex (This has served as a great weapon even through GH elite content) 17-20 X3 Crits are sweet.
Arm: Fearsome Mith Chain Shirt
Special Gear: As many Charges of Divine Power as possible to keep my Attack Bonus up. (Currently running with 18 charges and keep 50 DP scrolls at all times)

Highlights:(Currently at Lvl 12..Have gotten through Most of the GH stuff up to Elite)

1) Probably the biggest surprise with this build is the melee ability. Self Buffs+PA+THF+Haste+Carnifex+1000 SP+HIGH RELIABILITY HOLDS = The most fun I have had in game...Period! Stuff dies so quick it is crazy. If Kill counts are your thing..He is constantly near or at the top even against DPS barbarians.
2)Survivability..Perma Dis/Haste/Stoneskin and the ability to Jump back and knock off a full heal chain means he is almost alway the last one standing. People are amazed when they find out I have less than 200 Hp. Goes back to the Good CHA as well, Held monsters don't do any damage :) while your typical tank is getting beat up I am cutting through Mobs that for the most part don't fight back.
3)Can UMD just about anything
4)Solo Ability... 1000SP + Strong Melee + Buffs + Fascinate is wonderful.
5) The ability to drop back and Play a more traditional CC role if need be. (Again thanks to the decent CHA and SP pool)
6) With Empowered Healing the ability to drop back and be a primary healer. (My favorite quests are when I am the primary Tank as well as the Primary healer.)

Weaknesses (I haven't found many)

1) It can be a challenge sometime sto keep up with all my Buffs and rembering to hit a Divine Power before most battles.
2) $$ Not a great first toon you definatly need higher level loot mongers to feed his appetite for scrolls and at low level Bull's strength/Eagle's/Blur/Dsip scrolls.
3)Some would say I don't get the highest lvl of Bard spells. (Honestly the only one that is appealing to me is GH and with a stack of scrolls and strong UMD that is a Non-Issue)
4) I know I don't maximize the bard songs but again the purpose of this build is Arcane Self-buffing ability and Hold Monster.
5) Some would say low HP but again it has been a non-issue. (I can count my deaths in 12 levels on one hand)
6) There are lot's of mobs that can not be held.(Agreed) In those cases With a decent str + To Hit + PA + THF + carnifex I still keep up with most "tank" builds with little problem.

I am having so much fun with this guy I just stripped all my gear from my capped SOS DPS Barb and relegated him to "Mule" Status.

Again, Thanks for all the great advise.

[Aeneas]

I just finished playing around on risia with my bard. Let me just say this, i too will be stripping some of my other characters of great items to enhance my hold/charm specialist spellsinger bard. It is just way too fun out there. Very excited to be done with undead - yuck!

[maddmatt70]

I dont see a very high spell penetration possible for you. In the next mod and in the future alot of creatures will have spell resistance - you could have some difficulty with your holds hitting. The same can be somewhat said for your charisma - this is a very gianthold friendly build, but with only 30 charisma and low spell pen will your spells be hitting very often and furthermore have you run much in the orchard where creatures have immunities to your spells. The 175 hp limits you in the several melee situations where you are squishy (going against enemy spell casters with some melee support, etc.) and when your spells are not landing. How do you plan to play through those situations?

[CSFurious]

first, "holdmaster" makes me think of professional wrestling which i stopped watching when i was twelve

second, most drow bards who choose to fight in a dps-role usually utilize the drow's high-dex & fight with 2-weapons rather than go 2-handed

third, i do not know if 3-way multiclassing is wise

fourth, i would submit that a human or dwarf for more hitpoints &/or greater potential strength would have been a wiser choice; while raging, my current human 5 bard/2 fighter already has both str & con of 22 (134 hitpoints) & with power attack on is already critting for between 80 & 90 (i have seen 98 in red fighting hobgoblins in tr) just using a regular +3 greataxe (i have not even run delera's yet)

fifth, a well-armed & well-played rogue is going to kill a held monster faster than you can IMO

however, it seems that you are enjoying your build & in the end that it all that matters as long as you are contributing to the party's overall success

but, i still think that the bard's best cc is fascination; i am currently solo farming tr on norm for named items & whenever i need some cc, i just fascinate; with bard extra song, i already have 7 songs which is plenty between shrines

[freebird]

HI Guys, thanks for the great replys!!!!

In regards to the Spell Pen issue....If it becomes a major issue I can drop SF UMD and take the Spell Pen Feat + 2 Levels Of Spell Pen Enhancements. In terms of General melee against Mobs that can not be held I have ran into many up to this point and honestly the Low HP when buffed correctly has not been an issue. I have found that with Perma Disp/Stone Skin/Haste I am as surviavable as a standard melee type with far more hp than myself. (And far less reliant on a healer to get the job done).

first, "holdmaster" makes me think of professional wrestling which i stopped watching when i was twelve
Unfortunatly I have never been very creative with names...and the "Jimmy Superfly" build was all ready taken :)

second, most drow bards who choose to fight in a dps-role usually utilize the drow's high-dex & fight with 2-weapons rather than go 2-handed Good point, however I have run with some very capable Drow Bards that were THF. Part of my reasoning was access to a good selection of weapons due to the Barbarian I had just leveled. Also, in order to TWF the increase in Dex would have come at a decrease in CHA or STR.(neither of which I could give up with this build) Also as a THF I have much more flexability with my Feat Chain if I wan to switch something up.

third, i do not know if 3-way multiclassing is wise
I think for some builds it would not have worked but for this one it seems to have worked out great. As I was not trying to Max out the Bard abilities, I don't think I lost much compared with what I gained by taking the lvl of Sorc.

fourth, i would submit that a human or dwarf for more hitpoints &/or greater potential strength would have been a wiser choice; while raging, my current human 5 bard/2 fighter already has both str & con of 22 (134 hitpoints) & with power attack on is already critting for between 80 & 90 (i have seen 98 in red fighting hobgoblins in tr) just using a regular +3 greataxe (i have not even run delera's yet)
If I was shooting for a "Super DPS" build I would agree with you. However, respectable DPS (Which I achieved) was one only one of the requirements I was looking for in this build. For this build I was willing to sacrafice some STR and CON in order to have a decent CHA,Mana pool, and the ability to land spells at a good clip.


fifth, a well-armed & well-played rogue is going to kill a held monster faster than you can IMO
I have never played a rogue but was unaware they could "hold" monsters. If so, you are correct, as I understand they put out pretty good DPS.

however, it seems that you are enjoying your build & in the end that it all that matters as long as you are contributing to the party's overall success
Definatly having alot of fun, and like to think that quests run a little smoother with a decent Bard in the party.

but, i still think that the bard's best cc is fascination; i am currently solo farming tr on norm for named items & whenever i need some cc, i just fascinate; with bard extra song, i already have 7 songs which is plenty between shrines
I love fascinate as well, and use it alot...But Fascinate + Good CC + Good DPS + Good Mana Pool is so much fun :)
Hi Hit Charms are however slowly becomming my best friend when running solo content.

Anyway, thanks a bunch for the feedback!!!!
Have a great day.

[CSFurious]

that would be the best name ever, that made me laugh

you make very good points

as to rogues & hold monster, any monster that is held via spell is automatically exposed to rogue sneak attack damage & that is why i think the rogue would take down the held monsters faster

[smyter]

couple things:
on the basis that you are going to be relying on Hold-type spells for your theme, I would not stray. Your damage is going to be superb on a held monster... if you land the hold. Therefore I recommend the following:
1. Do everything you can to land the hold spell: max CHA in every way, and get BOTH spell focuses. The bard's Hold Monster is only a level 4 spell. Unless you are casting mind fog alot.. you will need to amp up your DC.
2. Hold = auto-crit. Therefore crit range doesn't matter. To me, this leaves you with a couple options:
a) Greataxe. WEAPON: cariflex is nice for the expanded crit range... but you do not care about that. Get yourself a nice bursting weapon. A +x shocking burst of pure good would do 1d6 (shock) 3d10 (burst) 1d6 (good) plus your weapon damage, and 2-H weapons are the hardest hitting crits you can get in the game. RACE: for axes you would want dwarf. Not so much for the to-hit, but the +2 damage. It is a cheap enhancement that also gets multiplied out through the 2H and x3 crit modifiers.
b) Puncturing. Weapon: piercing. Who needs the 2H damage when 2-3 swipes from a puncturer on auto-crit obliterates them. This maybe a good use for a heavy pick, since it will do great damage while held.. and the burst affect would be very cool (x4). RACE: Drow get bonuses to rapiers and cha, other than that any race would do.
c) Backstab. Held monsters auto-backstab. Therefore, a possibilty of 1 rogue level will get you an additional d6. Plus if you take the rogue level at lvl 1 you get bonus skill points and the ability to invest in some back-up rogue skills. 2 levels get you evasion. just some food for thought.
Well.. I am sure there is more, but I think you see my point. If you are going to do a theme of "Holdmaster" do not water it down with other fluff that is going to take away from your holds and the affects that holds have.

[smyter]

side thought (just for fun).. imagine a range attack holdmaster build. with a x3 bow or a puncturing bow... .hold plink plick plick... next!

[Aeneas]

to the above poster, 10 bard/6 ranger - hold, click manyshot (moneyshot) and unload with a wounding longbow of puncturing :D

[freebird]

Thanks again for the replys....!!

I had been using the carnifex as a good "all purpose" weapon...with the x3 crits it was dropping held mobs quickly and when I missed a hold the 17-20 crit range makes it a great all around weapon.(So I didn't have to constantly switch weapons) Smyter you mentioned the punct weapons...I found a +2 seeker heavy pick of Punct on a mule so I figured I would try it out. WOW!!!! Jumped into POP on elite and tried it out on the first 15 or so mobs..got my holds off with no problem and the Mobs dropped so quick it was almost comical (And took almost no damage in the process)... Looks like I found my new primary weapon, thanks a bunch!!!!

Because I stayed THF and have the extra fighter feats I have the flexability to take the other SF Enchantment feat (As well as The SP Line if need be), but up to this point landing spells has not been a major issue. (I suppose the Orchard will be the big test). If it becomes a major issue I can drop UMD and take the other SF Enh Feat and drop empower healing for the SP feat and should be good to go.

In terms of Charisma I suppose I could have gone higher than 30 but that would have come at the sacrafice of my STR and I wanted this toon to be effective in quests that had lots of Mobs that are not able to be held. Basically, if it can be held it gets Owned real quick..If it can not be held I am still as effective as most Non-DPS Barbarian Melee types....As well as bringing good general CC and healing to the table.

Another tactic that is working out real well is a Enervation Scroll/Hold Combo for hard mobs....The drop in Levels really helps the to hit on the hold!!

As far as a Bard/Ranger/Punct combo.....that would be absolutly frieghtening!!!

Anyway, thanks again for all the advise!!!!

[smyter]

Makes me wonder also about a enhancement specced drow sorcerer. With all those spell points, and a hold mass spell... a drow can weild a rapier with no penalty. perhaps high dex low str finesse build since all you want is the stat damage and not to get aggro in case they pop out of the hold.