I actually have a ranging Ranger

[Puke]

I've built several Rangers over my 1.5-years here and they've always concentrated on the TWF melee side of things with the ability to use the bow when it was necessary--which is pretty much only rarely. With the peek at the new enhancements, I decided to roll a new Ranger who would take advantage of the Deepwood Sniper enhancements and put every possible thing I could into ranged fighting. Now I'm one of those Rangers who never puts the bow down.

My new Ranger just hit fifth level last night and I have to say this ranged-fighting is slow! I knew it was slower than melee but I guess I never really realized just how slow. It is hair-pullingly slow! I don't know that I can stay the course, but I will try. I swear, in STK elite yesterday that I saw a caster using his Flaming Hands wand faster than I could shoot my bow, but I will easily accept that I was mistaken due to so much going on. The THF Dwarf with the greataxe was in a whole other time-dimension than me and was the humming bird to my snail.

On top of that I have to spend nine enhancement points to be able to get the Sniper enhancements. I think it's Move Silently II, Spot II and Hide II and which none really serve any purpose in this game in your normal zerging party-dynamic. So I will lose out on say some Energy enhancements (spell points) or the speed boost so I can keep out of harm's way when I kite a monster now that I am a bow weilder. I mean, I already get a -4 to my AC when I get caught in melee when holding that danged thing. And you know, many times I'm being hit by some Hobgobling or what-have-you when on my screen it looks like he is well out of melee range. Oh well.

What are the actual chances of landing the enhanced crit every 10-seconds? Say you can fire once per second and on the 10th you need to roll a 19-20? My gut feeling tells me it'll be quite rare. And I hope by higher levels this increases somehow...either in crit range or to a shorter duration between the bonus. Afterall, by level 14 a Barbarian will have an extra two crit ranges with his rages but can rage an awful long time with all of his enhancements. At least my Barbarian has plenty of rages to him between shrines with each rage seemingly lasting a very long time.

Well, I just thought I'd rant a little. Not a rant where I am mad, just expressing. And mostly, I don't feel like doing my work but now that time has come. Yuck.

And so, my experience playing one of them never-puts-the-bow-down Ranger.

[rpasell]

What are the actual chances of landing the enhanced crit every 10-seconds?


The chances are 5% greater than without it.

[rimble]

Well, with a Silver Longbow, or other increased threat range longbow your crit range will be 16-20 (with Improved Critical)...so a 25% chance of rolling a critical threat...at x4 damage...that's pretty nasty, really...and would supposedly get better somehow with Deepwood Sniper II. I very much resent their current plan of restricting this to the Ranger class, I hope they reconsider that.

Let's see, let's go ahead and say you're using a Silver Longbow, have a Bloodstone (do those even work with bows?) with those +3 Returning arrows from favor. You have a 26 Strength, and are an Elf with bow enhancements. Your crit damage is [1d10 Base + 8 Strength + 3 Arrows + 2 Enhancements + 6 Seeker] x 4 = [4d10 + 76] Piercing + 2d6 Holy + Possible Favored Enemy Damage. That +76 becomes +52 if my assumption about the Bloodstone is wrong. So a 25% chance of landing a 100+ point crit every 10 seconds (with fairly obtainable equipment) if you mash the button (sounds thrilling). Irrelevant versus those obnoxious uncrittable foes.

Not really going to comment on if that's good or not, or how it compares to melee. Obviously equipment will skew it in one direction or another, but those two items above really aren't that hard to get, and I've just returned after a hiatus and I'm not up to speed on the new whiz-bang equipment that may be available.

[rpasell]

So a 25% chance of landing a 100+ point crit every 10 seconds (with fairly obtainable equipment) if you mash the button (sounds thrilling). Irrelevant versus those obnoxious uncrittable foes.



On Risia I was landing 100 point crits with a simple +1 Banishing Longbow. +4 to hit, +1 to crit range and crit multiplier. Is it worth it? I think if you are a ranged ranger it is absolutely worth it. I've said this in other threads: In the new Mod a great number of mobs can be banished. The extra 5% chance to accomplish that > than the action point cost. Plus it stacks into your many shot so every 2 minutes you will get 4 arrows (at 16) + sniper every 10 seconds for 30 seconds.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I have a Ftr10 who is all archer. I ran him in a few quests this past weekend......his kill count was from silghtly below the main melee to slightly higher......not bad at all for a slow ranged toon.

You can keep up.....but it takes a lot to do it.
With manyshot and special arrows, you can surpass the melees.
(I use a silver longbow most of the time w/improved crit)

I think I have not recieved any complaints about having a ranged fighter since I got improved crit. It won't make you the best, but it will make you respected.

[Puke]

Yes, I believe the Silverbow is still the best bow in the game and so I plan to use that one come 6th level. And yes, I haven't gained the Manyshot feat either and that'll help some.

I guess I was just stunned to learn how slow it really is. Nothing makes you realize just how slow it is until it is your main mode of combat for a couple weeks through 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and into 5th level relies exclusively on ranging. I always knew it was slower but it wasn't quite as noticeable because I was doing the TWF thing on all my previous Rangers along with the other melees and would only break out the bow when appropriate. That is, when something was far away or out of reach which is very rare in this game. It is kind of funny because I now notice on my all-ranging Ranger that I'll poke something with an arrow and the melees, like a swarm, will converge upon my monster with their melee weapons slashing and slicing like a blur and take the monster out and then swarm upon the next guy all while I wait to reload and fire again. lol

Oh, and yes Bloodstones work with bows. My 14th Ranger can easily get a crit (main number) above 100 hit points damage. But it's kind of misleading because you are shooting much slower than the melee is swinging and hitting and so over the course of a battle, overall damage is much less. It's tough to compare damage to damage when the rates of damge aren't the same. And thus why I always went TWF.

Oh, and does Haste increase the rate of my ranged shots?

I have trouble believing that an all-ranged character will ever lead kill counts. I think maybe right at level six when Manyshot is introduced and against other level six characters when in say Stormcleave where you can time Manyshot just right and fire at something from great distance, but not at the higher levels. Again, I do play Rangers and have probably played 6-8 of them though only kept three and am on my 4th who is the first who does actual ranging the majority of the time. And even my TWF go with Improved Crit: Ranging.

[Benjai]

Yes, I believe the Silverbow is still the best bow in the game and so I plan to use that one come 6th level. And yes, I haven't gained the Manyshot feat either and that'll help some.

Its the best non-greater bane bow, but against most targets even a plain +1 shortbow of greater bane is better than silver. Lone exception is unless you have a holy/transmuting, targets with high DR/Good,Cold Iron the silver with cold iron arrows is better.

I guess I was just stunned to learn how slow it really is. Nothing makes you realize just how slow it is until it is your main mode of combat for a couple weeks through 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and into 5th level relies exclusively on ranging. I always knew it was slower but it wasn't quite as noticeable because I was doing the TWF thing on all my previous Rangers along with the other melees and would only break out the bow when appropriate. That is, when something was far away or out of reach which is very rare in this game. It is kind of funny because I now notice on my all-ranging Ranger that I'll poke something with an arrow and the melees, like a swarm, will converge upon my monster with their melee weapons slashing and slicing like a blur and take the monster out and then swarm upon the next guy all while I wait to reload and fire again. lol

If you're going to range, try not to pull things, since its really annoying for melees to chase mobs down. Try to let a tank grab stuff, and then hit what he's hitting, thus saving you from taking damage, clerics from wasting mana, and also helping to lessen the effects of the moving target miss bug.

Oh, and yes Bloodstones work with bows. My 14th Ranger can easily get a crit (main number) above 100 hit points damage. But it's kind of misleading because you are shooting much slower than the melee is swinging and hitting and so over the course of a battle, overall damage is much less. It's tough to compare damage to damage when the rates of damge aren't the same. And thus why I always went TWF.

Absolutely correct. Don't get fooled by the occasoinal high crit number. TWF you crit in the 50-60 range while ranging you get in the 70-90 range (before snipershot), but your hitting 3x faster and with a much higher range. You will never outdamage a melee dpser except during manyshot. To justify your group spot your going to have to learn to maximize your effectiveness by saving manyshot until its most useful and trying various other techniques while its cooling down, such as a paralyzer. I still don't personally see ranged being that useful though during that 1:40 minutes.

Oh, and does Haste increase the rate of my ranged shots?

Very much so, absolutly keep a stock of haste potions hotkeyed. 25% increase in dps, especially during manyshot, make sure you're either caster hasted, or drink a pot before you use manyshot.

I have trouble believing that an all-ranged character will ever lead kill counts. I think maybe right at level six when Manyshot is introduced and against other level six characters when in say Stormcleave where you can time Manyshot just right and fire at something from great distance, but not at the higher levels. Again, I do play Rangers and have probably played 6-8 of them though only kept three and am on my 4th who is the first who does actual ranging the majority of the time. And even my TWF go with Improved Crit: Ranging.
Kill counts will be hard to get because your firing slower but hitting harder, but you still have to wonder if even then your harder but slower hits are going to be valuable compared to a barbarian THF with a huge greataxe with powerattack and those mega-rages.

That being said you are used to TWF so you will realize at end-game whether or not the build is useful or not. Its just alot of ranged-rangers never try effective TWF so they're relative judgments of ranged-combats effectiveness isn't clear.

[Puke]

I still prefer the Silver Bow to the Greater Banes if I had to choose just one bow to carry and thus why I think it is the best. But yes, I will carry around a bunch of Greater Banes and utilize them when appropriate. With the arrows, it's a +3 bow with Holy damage (2d6, right?) but crits on a 17-20 which can be big since it's a x3 crit. Greater Banes are just too specific; but yeah, if you have the collection, they'll supplant the Silver Bow.

When ranging, sometimes pull happens. When it's a massive, dynamic melee, it's not always so simple to target that Troll who is aggro'd on someone else. Many times you can't actually click the target you want and have you utilize the tab button. So pull happens. Still, with proper kiting tactics (usually some good striding boots and hopefully that Ranger's Speed Boost), I can kill him and he can't ever touch me. But it is slow, very slow, and the melees will finish all the rest of the other Trolls and then start chasing my guy down. It's really no different than that caster who runs monsters in circles through his firewall except that he can deal with more than one monster at a time.

Yes, I try to keep the Haste potions in inventory. However, I thought I read once a long time ago that Haste didn't improve the rate of fire for range weapons. It sounds like I read incorrectly. That is good to know.

And yeah, going from several TWF types (both Rangers and a Fighter designed for TWF with a high Dex and the Fighter's Haste Boost and all that), this concentration on ranging is a shock in regards to just how slow...and boring, it is.

On a side note: I was planning on converting one of my 14th level Rangers to the Tempest Ranger but it is expensive in terms of feats. At 14th level, for non-humans and not counting Favored Enemies, you only get five feats. So three get traded out for Spring Attack (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack) before spending on the Tempest enhancement. Dodge is nice for the +1 AC. Nobody tumbles around in combat and so Mobility is just a big, giant waste. Spring Attack is nice 'cause you can constantly flank your opponent so he isn't facing you to hit you and he'll get a -4 on his to-hit. But I lose some hit points through Toughness and I can get a +1 to AC for Two Weapon Defense and a +1 to-hit for Weapon Focus. I'll be really interested to see how this Tempest Build works out. I had the most hope for this one but now I'm starting to lose the faith.

It looks like Tempest would be something like:
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Improved Critical: Piercing
Your choice, but probably Finesse for those Dex Builds (but this wouldn't be until lvl 12.)

/Ramble off

[ewrecker2003]

I just started my 1st ranger and i can out kill any fighter with my selection of bows when there isnt mayor mobs. When needed i do switch to melee using a parl.axe and a punc. wounding shortsword.But again i am mainly a ranged ranger. I also when i made my ranger they where talking about making manyshoot like power attack which would mean a ranged ranger would be a killing machine. That being said I have not seen any more on the manyshoot change.(i love my bloodstone on my ranger :)) -he is now an 11.

[Xaymaca]

Just to play a little devil's advocate:

Ranged combat has fewer risks than melee (there are still risks from other ranged and caster mobs, but much less in general).

For a pure ranged character, how can you expect even close to similar damage and speed (i.e. DPS)? If you are going pure ranged, then you are support damage at best, able to take out casters with ease (because of their shorter range than you, and relatively low AC).

To expect the same damage as a melee is unrealistic, so I don't think complaining about it (or ranting/venting) is worth the effort.

I just made a pure ranged Ranger, and I like it. Usually, on normal setting, I can kill most mobs before they even get close to me. I love that!

[Zenako]

Couple of quicky questions. Were you using auto attack? That is often slower than active mouse mashing.

Be selective in your targets. A good ranger will likely have excellent SPOT chances and you should be able to see the enemy before most of your allies. Pick out the Shaman or whatever. Line them up and manyshot them. Often they are DEAD before anyone knows what happened. It is rare to get a party wipe when faced with just melee grunts.

Once you get improved precise shot, you can line up a whole crew and waste them. Select the mob farthest from you and hit many shot and watch the screen fill with 20 seconds of triple great cleaving on as many mobs as you can get lined up with you. IF you have effects bows, I have been able to get 4 or 5 mobs Paralzyed with one burst/shot. (Or banished or disrupted).

As others mentioned, it is also essentially risk free death to the mobs. You consume little to none of the party resources for healing for example. I cannot possible list how many uber kill count barbarians were only able to maintain that facade thru the constant rapid infusion of healing from their allies. IF I dish out 500 points of damage and take 0, how does that compare to the one who dishes out 1200 points of damage but requires 700 points of healing. All that healing came from somewhere.

At lower levels I used a Cursespewer a lot and even Destruction bows. (Can in handy in the old TS runs!) Drop those Blackguards 4 AC and they become a lot less annoying.

With a number of people now wearing fearsome armor, a lot of mobs tend to get scared. Well I can still kill them where I am as they run away. I do not need to chase them. Kiting is often misused. People tend to take video game techniques like circle straffing and those are not as effective when your allies are melee centered. My Ranger always has self buffed JUMP on him. Kiting can be a very linear thing. Running back and forth, and you can keep the mobs almost stuck in the middle so your allies can get to them easily. Once you run past your group, turn and run backwards a few more steps while firing away. As the mobs get close, rush at them and jump over or by them and turn in the air and continue running backwards. The mobs will slow and turn and start heading back at you. Rinse and repeat until dead. The mobs might not move more than 40 feet, and if your DPS hounds in the middle cannot pull their aggro off you, then YOU are not the problem in that encounter.

[jaasper]

what quest can u get the silver bow from?

[Mad_Bombardier]

what quest can u get the silver bow from?The Church and the Cult in House P.

[jaasper]

gratzie

[Zenako]

what quest can u get the silver bow from?

Easiest place is to check the vendor in House D and wait from someone to sell one...that is how I have picked up three so far. Also sometimes one shows up for reasonable money on the AH if you are in the right place at the right time...

[isldur]

Easiest place is to check the vendor in House D and wait from someone to sell one...that is how I have picked up three so far. Also sometimes one shows up for reasonable money on the AH if you are in the right place at the right time...

That takes away from the fun of dragging people into their first vampire kill in the game. Bloodplate also drops in there. (deathblock full plate). I fondly remember begging people to run it to get my first silver bow. The best one was when I was a lowbie, party had wiped and disbanded while I was sitting at vamp. (read dead). After everyone left group, I put a lfm that said "Lying dead at feet of vampire-two free chest". It was funny, and several high level players came in laughing and finished quest. Good times. :D

[Zenako]

With the right group, he is a pussycat, otherwise an unbearable bengal tiger with severe mauling tendancies....Ouch!

My Cleric has responded to such calls a few times, it is never NOT a good time to banish another Vampire into the nothingness of the Light of the Flame!

[Puke]

Just to play a little devil's advocate:

Ranged combat has fewer risks than melee (there are still risks from other ranged and caster mobs, but much less in general).

For a pure ranged character, how can you expect even close to similar damage and speed (i.e. DPS)? If you are going pure ranged, then you are support damage at best, able to take out casters with ease (because of their shorter range than you, and relatively low AC).

To expect the same damage as a melee is unrealistic, so I don't think complaining about it (or ranting/venting) is worth the effort.

I just made a pure ranged Ranger, and I like it. Usually, on normal setting, I can kill most mobs before they even get close to me. I love that!

Around the 6th level when you first get Manyshot, a ranging Ranger is very deadly with the bow but before that and then later beyond that it is very tough to range anything and kill it before you drag him upon you. I'm not sure why it is absurd to expect the same damage from ranging as melee. Arrows typically pierce armor better and I'm still convinced isn't any slower than a melee who is having to block the enemy swings while also having his own swings blocked all while he fights. Am I ranting? I thought I was bringing up and commenting on something that surprised me very much after playing a whole ton of Ranger yet never actually relying on the bow with any of them. It is slowwwwwww. Again, after playing so many Rangers and never relying on the bow (for good reason) I had to comment on how surprised I was.



Couple of quicky questions. Were you using auto attack? That is often slower than active mouse mashing.

Be selective in your targets. A good ranger will likely have excellent SPOT chances and you should be able to see the enemy before most of your allies. Pick out the Shaman or whatever. Line them up and manyshot them. Often they are DEAD before anyone knows what happened. It is rare to get a party wipe when faced with just melee grunts.

Once you get improved precise shot, you can line up a whole crew and waste them. Select the mob farthest from you and hit many shot and watch the screen fill with 20 seconds of triple great cleaving on as many mobs as you can get lined up with you. IF you have effects bows, I have been able to get 4 or 5 mobs Paralzyed with one burst/shot. (Or banished or disrupted).

As others mentioned, it is also essentially risk free death to the mobs. You consume little to none of the party resources for healing for example. I cannot possible list how many uber kill count barbarians were only able to maintain that facade thru the constant rapid infusion of healing from their allies. IF I dish out 500 points of damage and take 0, how does that compare to the one who dishes out 1200 points of damage but requires 700 points of healing. All that healing came from somewhere.

At lower levels I used a Cursespewer a lot and even Destruction bows. (Can in handy in the old TS runs!) Drop those Blackguards 4 AC and they become a lot less annoying.

With a number of people now wearing fearsome armor, a lot of mobs tend to get scared. Well I can still kill them where I am as they run away. I do not need to chase them. Kiting is often misused. People tend to take video game techniques like circle straffing and those are not as effective when your allies are melee centered. My Ranger always has self buffed JUMP on him. Kiting can be a very linear thing. Running back and forth, and you can keep the mobs almost stuck in the middle so your allies can get to them easily. Once you run past your group, turn and run backwards a few more steps while firing away. As the mobs get close, rush at them and jump over or by them and turn in the air and continue running backwards. The mobs will slow and turn and start heading back at you. Rinse and repeat until dead. The mobs might not move more than 40 feet, and if your DPS hounds in the middle cannot pull their aggro off you, then YOU are not the problem in that encounter.

I appreciate your response and I can tell you have taken a lot of careful time to write it. However, I must say that you need to know I am not new to the Ranger. I probably have a whole lot more experience with the Ranger than you. I've tried many different builds and many different techniques and early-on figured out that melee was much superior and concentrated on that. After 1.5-years of playing I decided to actually stick with bow-fighting only and am amazed at how slow it is.

I to have a contention with this thought that it is risk-free fighting. It is not. Because it is slow, there is most likely the chance the monster or mob will be on you before you can dispatch him/them. Manyshot is very nice, I have to admit. But as you move beyond the 6th level, the melees get more attacks and the mobs get more HPs and it isn't as easy to drop something from ranged...especially in a tight dungeon.

I agree with your kiting technique. (You only kite because you can't drop that monster soon enough which is my earlier point.) If the melees are done with the mob it is best to drag them through the melees. However, there is this weird effect with trying to hit a moving target by a melee. Each monster has a bubble or circle around them that prevents you from getting any closer or running through the monster and it has an odd effect in regards trying to get a roll to-hit when swinging at a moving target and makes for a lot of whiffs.

My one pet-peeve to kiters is to drop the bow once in melee range. I see a lot of Rangers who NEVER drop the bow but once you are in melee range, it is my understanding that you get a -4 to your AC while holding a bow. Effectively, a +4 to-hit for the Monster.

Since I first wrote the start to this thread I have since leveled two new Rangers to sixth level and will be holding fast for the new Ranger Enhancements. One will be an Elf Sniper and the other a Human Tempest (Human for the extra feat so I can still get that Improved Crit at 9th lvl though I lose 3pts to Dex compared to Elfs/Halflings.)

[Zenako]

Ok (we have both played a lot - I still see some longtime players using Auto Attack as their SOP even if it is not the most effective way to do things which is why I asked that.) ...is it the rate of attack that seems slow, or the rate of damage to the mobs. Currently the rate of attack is slower than hand to hand combat, especially if you were used to two weapon fighting. There are changes on the horizon to address some of this. (See CoDog's thread in the develpment forum). The rate of damage will almost by definition be lower since the stat used to hit the mobs (DEX) is not the same used to Damage the Mobs (STR), whereas a melee gets to use STR in both cases (and sometimes 1.5 or 2X STR mod as an add).

If we had manyshot 24/7 that would be unbalanced, kinda like giving 24/7 Great Cleave to melees.

Melees - right now can Great Cleave, cooldown (some number of seconds 6 or 10) then GC again. You can mix in some Cleaves or Smites or other special attacks in the meantime. I would guess that the number of Great Cleaves a melee can set off in 120 Seconds is probably close to the number of volleys of ManyShotted Arrows rangers can get off in 120 seconds (albeit in a continous 20 second span).

As for kiting mobs, usually only happens when in normal shot mode. Pretty much anything I start shooting at with Many Shot (except End Bosses) tend to die before they reach me when using the right gear. (Those Flesh Golems in the Orchard are an exception sometimes, those have incredable amounts of HP...grrrr). When running solo or in small groups, we often take enough time between fights that Manyshot has reset.

As for my capped Ranger - he has a hot bar+ of bows, another filled with two weapon combos for most occasions (along with a nice +5 shield for when that makes the most sense too). As a character he considers himself an archer first, a melee second, but that really depends on the quest, the mobs and the locations.

[Puke]

Hey, that was a quick reply. I re-read my above post and I think I sound a little ****y but I am sincere. I'm at work and have to write quickly and to the point. But right now, I do not feel like working.

Yeah, I'm not calling for 24/7 Manyshot as it Manyshot is now. Manyshot can be a very powerful tool and used at the right time, I can drop an enemy before he reaches me. But this requires the right situation: monster-type, location and more.

I feel I'm lacking something with how I express through words. I think my point originally was that, after playing a ton of Rangers and never really using the bow much except for certain special situations, I finally played a bow-only Ranger and am stunned at how slow ranging is. You'd think after my playing so many Rangers I wouldn't be surprised but I am! I believe, if you are a Ranger, TWF is for the win!

I forgot to address auto-attack. I use it at times. Mostly when there is a big mob fighting the melees and I can't click on a target because I end up clicking on a friendly or what-have-you and in those situations it is easier to use auto-attack. Normally, I prefer to manually target.

As for kiting, since Manyshot has such a long cool-down and those who never put the bow down will continue to fight even when Manyshot isn't available again yet, they will have ample opportunity to kite. My current stable of characters has five Rangers and that is not counting the Rangers that I rolled and played to some level and then deleted for one reason or another...probably another five. I very rarely ever kited because: 1) the party hates it; 2) I can be quicker just switching to melee. Kiting at low levels is even worse because if you roll a miss (and you get that -4 to-hit when running around), it takes forever before you can shoot again and I'm coming from being used to TWF everything. So yeah, I am STUNNED at how slow this is. Don't think just end-game in regards to the speed of archery...go back and try to play it exclusively from levels 1-6 and then 8-11.

I think the developers did gimp ranging a little too much though in terms of number of attacks. Yeah, yeah, everyone thinks a Fighter in hundreds of pounds of plate mail on his back which doesn't assist in movement very well should be Speedy Gonzales with his swings compared to some guy in leather or a robe who has to nock an arrow and let fly. I do wish there was a little more of an even playing field though and that monster AI dealt with ranging better instead of taking the approach of just neutering ranging. I don't have any answers here and haven't tried to think of any 'cause I don't think they are that concerned. So I guess I am ranting.

It does sound like you are able to utilize your arrows much better than I. Most of mine just sit in the bank. Afterall, since I deal with TWF mostly I have to have double the melee weapons for both main and off-hands on top of having to have all the different bows on top of stacks of 75% arrows on top of all the specific bane and slaying arrows and my packs are full. FULL! This isn't counting my collection of robes, wands, spell materials and this game is crazy to then think I want to collect frames, sigils, drapes and more! So I end up leaving my specialty arrows at home. It's either that or never plan on looting a chest.

Still, after all my complaining I love the Ranger. Since it is the class I love most, I will be a bit more prejudiced to any injustice I may perceive and will be much more apt to "rant" about my favorite class. Still, I think ranging is the ugly-stepchild of DDO and thank goodness they gave Rangers BOTH TWF and archery. Whew! Can you imagine if Rangers were only archery in this game? We'd never, ever get an invite to the LFM. And that says volumes about how the whole community perceives DDO's archery.

[Zenako]

Well as I mentioned in another thread about which one character would you keep if you could only keep one, I choose my Ranger/Rogue as the one I would keep. In many ways it is my favorite one to play, especially if exploring new quests.

ANY Character which becomes a one trick pony will be gimped in my mind. Healbots are gimped, trapmonkeys are gimped, DPS monsters are gimped all for different reasons. Thus too will ranged attackers be gimped if they do not adapt to the circumstances. Backpack space is at a PREMIUM for Rangers. On that I FULLY Agree. Add in all my clickies and wands, sigh not much room left for loot. Toss in my Rogue Sneaking Gear and Traps/Lock Gear and there goes another half page.

I will offer that to be a REAL effective ranger (either bow or TWF) requires some nice gear to complete the package. I have pulled together some pretty good stuff at this point, so feel I can be an asset to any party. (Still looking for that extremely rare and never seen Vorpal Longbow however:D...:eek:). DPS, can do that against some mobs (like Giants) and even Undead. More often combine effects like Para and W/P dual attacks. You can kill a giant about as fast that way as with straight damage from what I have seen.

Bottom line is I have perhaps more "fun" with this guy than many of my other characters. See roster of mains below.

[query]

because i wanted to plan him out. I made sure I had my 1750 favor first for the 32-point build and used a planner very merticulosly to plan every point from skill to stat to enhancement.

And even then I decided at l 6 instead to go with a Dragonmark of shadows (elf ranger.) Thank goodness I did. I can't tell you how that itty bitty hide boost made the difference or how many times that invisibility saved my butt (especially in STK elite endfight...ouch!)


The thing is yeah, many people are used to melee, but they seem to forget or miss the other people also hitting your target. I've seen my bowshots drasticly lower the health of an enemy, more if favored. As a matter of fact, I have to constantly remind myself to let the fighter take the heat and not fire too fast (I manual fire via the mouse) or have to do the famous ranger backpedal kill step since I can get aggro easily (not bad for a "non DPS" build.) If you learn how to do that and kite, it's amazing what you can accomplish from a non melee distance. Yes, if they get in range and are not 1 more shot killable, you'd better switch to a melee fighting option (I too despise the epoxy bow people) but that is becoming rarer and rarer, and I'm still 1/4 a level away from my DW Sniper/Manyshot option!


And I too will be one of those who suggest adding fighter/rogue to your ranger for versatility (I took 1 level of rogue for the versatility and it really pays off even though I will be missing the R 16 until next cap; the options I can do to save the party's behind from rogue skill stuff to backstab makes it 100% worth that cost in my personal opinion.) There is something very nice about taking out an enemy from a LONG range away (better and better with each level/item upgrade.) Knowing he notices where the damage is coming from just as he drops is evilly fun, and soon he won't notice at all ever.


So stop trying to equate DPS with ranged attacks know it is slower but not snail slow as suggested, and haver a lot of fun with the build. Just be ready to fight when the enemy is too close and healthy to drop (or you actually run out of 700+ shot equivalent ammunition, whichever comes first.)


And my character's signature sniper phrase:

"You're already dead, you just haven't heard the arrow hit you yet."


Have fun fellow RANGErs!

[barecm]

Well, with a Silver Longbow, or other increased threat range longbow your crit range will be 16-20 (with Improved Critical)...so a 25% chance of rolling a critical threat...at x4 damage...that's pretty nasty, really...and would supposedly get better somehow with Deepwood Sniper II. I very much resent their current plan of restricting this to the Ranger class, I hope they reconsider that.

Let's see, let's go ahead and say you're using a Silver Longbow, have a Bloodstone (do those even work with bows?) with those +3 Returning arrows from favor. You have a 26 Strength, and are an Elf with bow enhancements. Your crit damage is [1d10 Base + 8 Strength + 3 Arrows + 2 Enhancements + 6 Seeker] x 4 = [4d10 + 76] Piercing + 2d6 Holy + Possible Favored Enemy Damage. That +76 becomes +52 if my assumption about the Bloodstone is wrong. So a 25% chance of landing a 100+ point crit every 10 seconds (with fairly obtainable equipment) if you mash the button (sounds thrilling). Irrelevant versus those obnoxious uncrittable foes.

Not really going to comment on if that's good or not, or how it compares to melee. Obviously equipment will skew it in one direction or another, but those two items above really aren't that hard to get, and I've just returned after a hiatus and I'm not up to speed on the new whiz-bang equipment that may be available.

Silverbow critis on 15 - 20 with improved critical and Deepwood sniper, not 16. Deepwood doubles the BASE, not the overall. So, 19-20 becomes 17-20 with improved critical, then improved Critical brings it to 15. All other bows that normally crit on a 20 crit on a 20. So, the combination is quite deadly.

As far as damage, with the Deepwood Sniper shot I have seen damage with newly crafted 2nd lvl (Fire+Earth) bow, I am seeing damage upwards of 140 + 6 on a critical (which is 17-20) against favored enemies.

[maddmatt70]

Silverbow critis on 15 - 20 with improved critical and Deepwood sniper, not 16. Deepwood doubles the BASE, not the overall. So, 19-20 becomes 17-20 with improved critical, then improved Critical brings it to 15. All other bows that normally crit on a 20 crit on a 20. So, the combination is quite deadly.

As far as damage, with the Deepwood Sniper shot I have seen damage with newly crafted 2nd lvl (Fire+Earth) bow, I am seeing damage upwards of 140 + 6 on a critical (which is 17-20) against favored enemies.

Honestly, how do you like the mechanics of deepwood sniper? From what I have heard it lasts only 10 sec so you have to continually click it every time the timer is up. Do you use it that frequently? Is there specific type of fights that you use it for?

I have an archer 12 fighter 4 ranger who might take 2 more ranger levels when the cap goes up again if deepwood sniper is truely worth it, but what I have been hearing is it is not..