A True Arcane Archer. Mod 6 Style

[Impaqt]

Heres my first attempt at an Arcane Archer. Since there appears to be nothing significant in the works for Ranged feats beyond l11 right now, I've decided to bump up the wizard levels and gain some pretty nifty spells to aid in performance of this build. Hit points are alittle low, but when you consider the low melee focus, you should do quite well. Add to that Stoneskin wands, Quickened Displacement casting, constant Blur, and other self buffs. 30 Point resists come from your Ranger side, along with a few other andy spells, and your wizard buffs will benefit from 5 Levels and Extend.

I threw Weapon finesse in there for the ability to melee when you want to as well.

Saving throws came out quite high as well. I think this looks like a solid build for the next mod.
Level 16 Elf Male
(11 Ranger \ 5 Wizard)
Hit Points: 202 + Boosts

20 Heroic Durability
88 L11 Ranger
20 L5 Wizard
64 CON Bonus (18 CON)
10 Dragonic Vitality
---
202
Spell Points: 656
80 Magical Training
150 L5 Wizard
97 L11 Ranger
30 Elven ARcanum
50 EotS
84 Wizard INT Bonus
80 Ranger Wis Boost
---
571
85 Mental TOughness
---
656
Ranger Spells:
L1: Rams Might, Resistance L2:Barkskin, ? L3: Wild Instincts
Wizard Spells:
L1: Jump, Nightshield,Tumble, Shield
L2: Blur, Melfs, ?
L3: Haste, Displacement

BAB:

11 Ranger L11
2 Wizard L5
12 Dex Bonus
1 Weapon Focus Ranged
2 Elven Longbow Enh
3 Average Bow/Arrow
--
+31 First Arrow Unbuffed
3 Divine Power Clicky
1 Haste
4 Greater Heroism
2 +5 Arrows
--
+41 Self Buffed

Saving Throws:

Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 28
Will: 19

7/7/3 L11 Ranger
1/1/4 L5 Wizard
4/12/4 Attribute Bonus
4/4/4 Resistance Item
------
16/24/15 Unbuffed Saves
4/4/4 Greater Heroism
------
20/28/19


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
{20}Strength 14 Divine Power Cicky as needed
{34}Dexterity 18 +4 Levels +2 Ranger +2 Elf +6 Item +2 Favor Tome
{18}Constitution 12 +1 Tome +5 Item
{22}Intelligence 14 +1 Wizard +1 Tome +6 Item
{18}Wisdom 12 +6 Item
{14}Charisma 8 +6 Item as Necessary

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Reptillian - Switch to Undead around L4
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse

Level 2 (Ranger)

Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons

Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX

Level 5 (Wizard)

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot

Level 7 (Ranger)

Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: DEX

Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness

Level 10 (Wizard)

Level 11 (Ranger)

Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell

Level 13 (Ranger)

Level 14 (Ranger)

Level 15 (Ranger)

Feat:
(Selected) Open Feat

Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I

17 Action points Left Over for Arrow Enhancements

[~Jules921]

I've been mulling over this type of multiclass, but I'm thinking of throwing in 2 levels of rogue and only 1 of wizzy. I never can get the hang of playing mage focused characters, got plenty of bards and clerics, but my wizzy and sorcs never last beyond level 4 - if that. I would only have enough mana for self buffing, but I would be deadly with a longbow.

Jules


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Arcanearcher Elspeth
Level 14 Neutral Good Elf Female
(2 Rogue \ 11 Ranger \ 1 Wizard)
Hit Points: 138
Spell Points: 350
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 14
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 14 16
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 16 16
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 6 11
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 1 10
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 7 26
Haggle 3 6
Heal 3 8
Hide 7 12
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 6 17
Listen 3 5
Move Silently 7 13
Open Lock 7 22
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 3
Search 7 25
Spot 5 22
Swim 3 4
Tumble 5 6
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I

Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I

Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I

Level 4 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore I

Level 5 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elven Perception II
Enhancement: Ranger Tundra Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I

Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
Enhancement: Ranger Item Defense I

Level 8 (Ranger)

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I

Level 10 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Ranger Search I
Enhancement: Ranger Spot I

Level 11 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I

Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I

Level 13 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Damage II

Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Attack II

[Impaqt]

THat kind of Breakdown works fine if you want tobe a trapsmith Arcane Archer. TO me, I think its trying to do too much with the build. 1 level of wizard doesnt get you much. some spell points, and a couple 2 minute spells.

I really like 5 levels of Wizard on the arcane archer. Self buffing alone becomes incredibly usefull. a Constantly Hasted/Displaced/Stoneskinned/Manyshotting ranger will be a significant force to rekon with come mod 6. :)

[rpasell]

Heres my first attempt at an Arcane Archer. Since there appears to be nothing significant in the works for Ranged feats beyond l11 right now, I've decided to bump up the wizard levels and gain some pretty nifty spells to aid in performance of this build. Hit points are alittle low, but when you consider the low melee focus, you should do quite well. Add to that Stoneskin wands, Quickened Displacement casting, constant Blur, and other self buffs. 30 Point resists come from your Ranger side, along with a few other andy spells, and your wizard buffs will benefit from 5 Levels and Extend.



Me Likey

[~Jules921]

THat kind of Breakdown works fine if you want tobe a trapsmith Arcane Archer. TO me, I think its trying to do too much with the build. 1 level of wizard doesnt get you much. some spell points, and a couple 2 minute spells.

I really like 5 levels of Wizard on the arcane archer. Self buffing alone becomes incredibly usefull. a Constantly Hasted/Displaced/Stoneskinned/Manyshotting ranger will be a significant force to rekon with come mod 6. :)

I see your point, I'm probably going to drop the 2 rog levels and split the ranger/wizzy 7 & 7, taking 1 lvl of wizard before lvl 6 ranger to get the arcane enhancement at lvl 7, one more ranger level for many shot and the rest as wizzy.

I wish the enhancement for mod 6 were in the planner - there's a lot of guess work in my planning now.

Jules

[Xyfiel]

Don't have time for a full break down of my idea to mc my L7 Ranger with the same setup. I have yet to decide if I am going to. Anyway, consider the following changes:

Take rage over displacement as other L3 spell. +2con, 2str, 1will.
Take extend and 2 dragonmarks for 16mins of displacement.

Costs 2 feats for the 0 mana displacement, one of which would come from your mental toughness anyway.

[Xyfiel]

Readjusted Build based on level 16 with 5wiz levels. Original build was lost in the great forum purge of 2007.


Elf Ranger11/Wizard5

15str 26 +1tome+6item+2rage+2rams might
18dex 36 +3tome+6item+2elf+3ranger+4levels
11con 20 +1tome+6item+2rage
11int 14/19 +1tome+6item+1wiz+1cartouche(after buffing remove +6)
13wis 20 +1tome+6item
9cha 16 +1tome+6item(only need when using res scrolls really)

Feats: least/lesser dragonmarks, point blank shot, weapon focus/imp crit ranged, Skill focus UMD
extend/quicken

Skills:
Balance, Tumble, Jump, Spot, UMD, Hide/MS
UMD=9base+3item+2luck+4gh+3cha+3feat=24 for rr items, +3boost for res scrolls

Saves: 24/33/24
7/7/3 Ranger, 1/1/4 Wizard, 5/13/5 stats, 5/5/5 resist, 2/2/2 luck, 4/4/4 gh, 0/1/1 spells(haste/rage)

Spell Points: 786
100Ranger, 230 Wiz, 200archmagi, 100wisdom, 56int, 30 Elven Arcanum, 50Energy ofScholar, 20 Arcane Archer

Hps: 248
20base+10DV+30Gfl+80con+20wizard+88Ranger

Spells:
2/2/1 Ram's Might, Resist Energy, Barkskin, Protection from Energy, Wild Instincts
4/3/2 Shield, Tumble, Jump, Protection From Evil, Blur, See invis, False Life, Haste, Rage

Attack: 38
13bab+13dex+1weapon focus+1pbs(within 30)+4gh+1haste+3arrows+2enhancement

Damage: 16-25 17-20 X3 +2d6
Silver Bow 1d10 17-20 X3 +8str +1pbs(within 30) +2 Ram's might +1enhancement+3arrows+2d6holy
I will be trying to get a w/p.

Enhancements:
Arcanum II, Dex II, Extra Dragonmark III, Ranged Attack II, Ranged Damage I, Dex III, Favored attack I, Fav damage II, Fav resist II, Fav Defense II, Item Defense I, Skill Boost II, Sprint Boost I, Energy of Scholar II, Int I. This should leave 7 points for AA.

AC: 47 running, 60 buffed
10base+13dex+1haste+4shield+8bracers+3ring+5deflec tion+5natural-2rage
possible tanking AC add 3 for shield, 2 from no rage, 2 from recitation, 4 from aura, 2 from blocking

[moorewr]

Ah ha! I was just thinking "I should see what peiople are saying about Rangers for Mod 6" and here is Impaqt with my next build. I'm going to have to start a ranger now.

[My only problem is lack of playtime. I love my rogue/cleric, and think about playing him all the time. :)]

[moorewr]

Hmmm.. after some time with the character planner..

Let me start by saying I've not played a ranger at all in DDO yet... so I may be taking on a lot by starting with an MC ranger...

Some of the iconic Ranger abilities show up pretty late.. for example Evasion at level 14, barkskin on level 13... do you think having hast/displace at level 12 is worth delaying these? I'm on board for the 11r/5w breakdown, but I was contemplating trying to get to level 8 ranger sooner - maybe by level 11?

You have your build taking wizard at 3/5/8/10/12.. so maybe that leaves me doing something like 3/6/9/12/13 to pick up ranger abilities a little quicker, and the wizard 3rd level spells a level later.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Hmmm.. after some time with the character planner..

Let me start by saying I've not played a ranger at all in DDO yet... so I may be taking on a lot by starting with an MC ranger...

Some of the iconic Ranger abilities show up pretty late.. for example Evasion at level 14, barkskin on level 13... do you think having hast/displace at level 12 is worth delaying these? I'm on board for the 11r/5w breakdown, but I was contemplating trying to get to level 8 ranger sooner - maybe by level 11?
Umm.. Not sure what's going on here. Evasion shows up at level 9 for rangers. You can first cast barkskin at level 8 with a +3 bonus(or maybe +4.. I forget). It gets maxed out at +5 at a later level(I think 12??? But I'm not exactly sure).
You have your build taking wizard at 3/5/8/10/12.. so maybe that leaves me doing something like 3/6/9/12/13 to pick up ranger abilities a little quicker, and the wizard 3rd level spells a level later.

Pretty much, level 11 ranger is the break-even point for rangers. That's where the bulk of the "free" ranger feats stop, so that's the point that most people aim there rangers for. At level 14, you get access to level 4 ranger spells, but that's about it except for the (undefinded so far) level 17 hide in plain sight ability, and whatever enhancements rangers will get down the road.

[moorewr]

Pretty much, level 11 ranger is the break-even point for rangers. That's where the bulk of the "free" ranger feats stop, so that's the point that most people aim there rangers for. At level 14, you get access to level 4 ranger spells, but that's about it except for the (undefinded so far) level 17 hide in plain sight ability, and whatever enhancements rangers will get down the road.

Yep. I'm sold on eleven levels of ranger. My concern is when to drop in the wizard levels for this build -- five levels of wizard by level 12, so you get to level 9 ranger at level 14.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Yep. I'm sold on eleven levels of ranger. My concern is when to drop in the wizard levels for this build -- five levels of wizard by level 12, so you get to level 9 ranger at level 14.

It really depends on how much solo play you do, and how much with parties. I tend to solo a lot, so I'd be more inclined to pick up the wizard levels earlier so I can buff myself. If you tend to group up a lot, then you can put off the wizard levels until later.

[Impaqt]

I'm also quite the Soloer so to my the Displacement and Haste is critical. Barkskin pots are avalable readily at +3 as well. Evasion.. Nice, but not critical to me.

[~Jules921]

I can understand the need for high AC and the high dex to get there, but aren't you sacrificing the bow strength bonus to get there?

Wouldn't it be better to use the level up's in strength or split them between strength and dex?

Jules

[Osharan_Tregarth]

I can understand the need for high AC and the high dex to get there, but aren't you sacrificing the bow strength bonus to get there?

Wouldn't it be better to use the level up's in strength or split them between strength and dex?

Jules

For me, it would depend what kind of gear you are looking at outfitting the character with. On the new mod, with the scaling to hit bonuses finally getting added in, perhaps... As long as you want to depend on standing in one spot to shoot things, you could put points into str instead of dex. I'm running up a str based warforged ranger that is aiming for the 11/5 split, but he'll be primarily hand-to-hand. Not an arcane archer, so he doesn't really belong in this thread discussion.

But the ability to never have to worry about whether your weapon is a +1 of whatever vs a +5 of whatever is a wonderful thing. On their own, rangers don't get too many "to hit" bonuses the way fighters or paladins do, so you can't depend on grabbing some kind of 5 charge clickie bonus to get you through the rough spots. Also, once you reach a certain area of dex(therefore ac), every single point counts. There was a huge difference (for example) on how much damage my dex based ranger started taking when I dropped dodge on him. That one point of armor class probably quadrupled the amount of damage he was taking in a quest.

For a build like this, I'd be a lot more inclined to pick up combat expertise instead of mental toughness. As long as you were okay with the 30 second cooldown period after actuating combat expertise, you could get this character into some really outstanding ac levels.

[Impaqt]

STR Vs. Dex:
This build has a 20 STR Potential as it sits,... Thats +5 Damage w/ Bow Str. Not shabby at all. Trading +1 damage for +1 to hit.... I'd rather have the extra chance to hit. The dex adds to ac, Reflex save, and of course to hit with the bow... I think bumping all three of those up makes a more surviveable character.

Rage vs. Displacement Vs. Dragonmarks:
As for Rage as a spell... OK, but rage clickies and posts are readily available.. if you feel you need them. I dont think the Bonusus from rage are all that exciting on this build. You should not be getting hit much and the str adds up to 1 pt of damage. Will save is good, Especially when you consider Elven enchantment resistance. Getting the most out of the dragon marks menas you need to spend a lot of action points in that area as well. I'd rather have the Spell points and quickened casting of displacement.

CE Vs. Mental Toughness:
Unfortunatly, I cant see that working well. Maybe if your always in a grou with a solid Sorc or Wizard who wil Displace/hase you constantly, but otherwise, your relying on yourslef to keep up those buffs. Which of course would break CE Constantly

[moorewr]

I'm sold on the solo-capability, and at level 16 this character will be extremely versatile.

I guess I'm still a little concerned about how things look at, say, level 11, when the build is at 7r/4w. You are not that amazing as a ranger yet, and your wizard levels are only giving you 2nd level spells - 8 minute blurs and the like. I know me - I know I will spend some quality time in the 8-11 level range (months, even, on an alt). That's a long time to go around feeling sub-par. That's pretty well ironed out by level 13, but you have to get there...

[BLAKROC]

i am experimenting with a bard/ranger :) final will be bard 9/ranger 7 awesome self buffs, if it works i will post it so far I am at 8 bard/2 rangers and she's a lot o fun

[Thrudh]

I'm actually playing this type of character right now... and was about to ask for some advice about long-term planning when I saw this thread

Currently at 8/2 ranger/wizard...

There are a lot of advantages to splashing wizard with a ranger... You get Extend for free, a bunch more Spell-points, the Shield spell (really helps when you're using two weapons, and protects against enemy magic-missiles), access to arcane wands (like Remove Curse and Stoneskin)... Rangers can already use Remove Disease wands, so being able to use Remove Curse wands as well is very nice..


I guess I'm still a little concerned about how things look at, say, level 11, when the build is at 7r/4w. You are not that amazing as a ranger yet, and your wizard levels are only giving you 2nd level spells - 8 minute blurs and the like. I know me - I know I will spend some quality time in the 8-11 level range (months, even, on an alt). That's a long time to go around feeling sub-par. That's pretty well ironed out by level 13, but you have to get there...

The comments someone made about leveling this type of character are accurate... I'm only two levels behind normal ranger progression, yet it has been very hard to wait to 10th level for barkskin, 11th level for evasion, etc. I can't imagine waiting until level 13 for evasion like the posted build.. Evasion starts becoming very useful around 8th level and on... A high reflex score feels sub-par when you're still taking half-damage... You feel (and look) like a gimped ranger.

Of course you'll be fine once you get to the level-cap, and for many power-gamers, getting there isn't too hard... For many others though those middle levels (And I'm talking about 8-12 here, it's NOT a small stretch) are going to be tough.

I really want my 3rd favored enemy (I won't get that until level 12 - and then the Demon Queen is in big trouble)

I was intending to do 11/3 Ranger/Wizard... But with the level cap going to 16, I've also been considering 5 levels of wizard like the build detailed in this post...

My big questions are... you think a 11/5 Ranger/Wizard will have enough SP to keep displacement and haste up all the time? (Hopefully someone else will be hasting, so you only have to keep displacement up). At 8/2, I have about 400 SP (with a Magi dagger).. I try to hit everyone with barkskin, and resists on myself and anyone else who needs it... which usually drains most of my SP... I have no idea how pure rangers can manage their SP. I usually have enough left over to keep my 4 minute Shields and Exp Retreat running all the way to the next shrine.

I had planned to go
9/2 (Evasion!)
10/2 (3rd favored enemy - 3rd shot on multi-shot!)
10/3 (Blur and False Life)
11/3 (30 point resists, GTWF, Precise Shot)

But I really don't want to take the last two levels as a wizard since that will mess up my ranger skills...

I'm thinking about just using displacement scrolls for the big fights and sticking with only 3 levels of wizard (or maybe going 12/4, and waiting to the NEXT level increase to get to 13/5).

Heh, I've even been thinking about grabbing a level or two of fighter for the extra feats (so maybe a 11/3/2 Ranger/Wizard/Fighter).

I think a Ranger/Wizard is a great combination... but I very rarely see anyone playing it. I get a lot of comments on my build... many assume I'm pretty gimped... but I do very well (at least so far in the mid-levels). I can do some serious party buffing with all my SP, so I'm much appreciated by other casters. I can fight with two weapons and only have 3 AC less than someone with a +5 heavy shield... etc., etc., etc.

A ranger/wizard is very fun to play... but there is a LOT of "man, I can't wait to get to the next level!" (One tip - definitely get two levels of wizard fairly early on. 2 minute Shields are way too short; 4 minute shields work pretty well)

Character creation is so much fun in DDO....

[moorewr]

How about flipping this? I always figure taking levels of a caster means most of the levels should be in that class...

Go elf, start by splashing a level of ranger then go wizard for a while with a final goal of 10w/6r (so you can take Deepwood sniper, get a few iconic ranger spells, etc), & use your normal feats to optimize ranged attacks and take the elven version of the arcane archer line.

Maybe, hmm.. ranger at 1st level, shoot for 9w/4r and on from there? 5w/1r to start, then 7w/2r.. maybe even go 7w/1r...


hmm feats -- usual wizard bonuses plus weapon spec:ranged, improved crit: ranged.. at least 1 toughness, probably two to make up for the squishiness...

[Impaqt]

I dont like the opposite build at all..

The 5 levels of WIzard significantly enhance the rangers abilitites.

Flip it and what does 5 levels of Ranger give a l11 WIzard? 2wf, Bow Str, a Fav enenmy... Not exciting.

As a l10-11 Wizard your going to miss l12-16 wizard a LOT more than your going to miss l12-16 Ranger levels on the proposed build.

[moorewr]

I dont like the opposite build at all..

The 5 levels of WIzard significantly enhance the rangers abilitites.

Flip it and what does 5 levels of Ranger give a l11 WIzard? 2wf, Bow Str, a Fav enenmy... Not exciting.

As a l10-11 Wizard your going to miss l12-16 wizard a LOT more than your going to miss l12-16 Ranger levels on the proposed build.

Yeah, it was a thought experiment along the lines of rogue 1 or 2/whatever builds. How little ranger do you need to be an effective ranger that is mostly another class? The intent was not to operate as a wizard, although you could to some extent. The result? A build as hard to explain & justify to a PUG as a battle-cleric. :)

In my idea is BAB is too low - 7 at level 11 and 11 at level 16 - you'd be relying on tensor's or divine power clickies to be effective with a bow. But you'd still be a (squishy) deepwood sniper or tempest ranger with wall of fire and ball lightning.

[Thrudh]

I dont like the opposite build at all..

The 5 levels of WIzard significantly enhance the rangers abilitites.

Flip it and what does 5 levels of Ranger give a l11 WIzard? 2wf, Bow Str, a Fav enenmy... Not exciting.

As a l10-11 Wizard your going to miss l12-16 wizard a LOT more than your going to miss l12-16 Ranger levels on the proposed build.

Agreed... MCing casters is usually not a very good idea... If you do do it, it's best to keep it minimal (like a 13/1 wiz/rogue, or a 13/1 cleric/fighter). Casters have lots of benefits at the higher levels... A lot of melee classes don't really have that much going for them past 11 (with the exception of barbarian since 14th level gives the Critical enhancement)...

11/5 Ranger/wizard is a good balance of classes... 11 ranger gets all the ranger goodies... 5 wizard gets some significant buffs... Self-cast Blur, Haste, Displacement. and Shield are huge on a melee class...

I still think the middle levels for a 11/5 Ranger/Wizard build are very tough...

[Thrudh]

Here's another crazy wrinkle...

My ranger/wizard is a halfling....

Been thinking about respeccing for the Dragonmarks (Cure Light, Cure Serious, Heal)... and then if I got the 5th level of wizard, I could take Maximize for my free meta-magic feat... My understanding is that works even on DragonMarks...

I know, I know... pure craziness!

(I built this guy at least a year ago for fun... I've only recently been playing him a lot... he's working out pretty well... but not having a long-range plan is usually not a good idea for a complicated multi-class like this)

[Mad_Bombardier]

I still think the middle levels for a 11/5 Ranger/Wizard build are very tough...Agreed. Even with Extend, a 5Wiz's Displacement and Haste only lasts 1 minute (Rage lasts 2 minutes). It's managable for solo play, but unwieldy for group play. Now, if we could get the Practiced Spellcaster feat making it effective caster level 9 for Wizard, we'd be in better shape. And some of the "deep multiclass" builds could be very viable for parties.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with Healing dragonmarks on a Healing class. Wands are just as good for after combat heal up.

[Impaqt]

THe Key is to use yu haste as needed, not as a primary party buff. a Particually long fight where it ran out, or when the arcane is out of spell points.

Blur would be up constantly and displace as needed a Minute of displacement makes ya through most difficult fights.

[Thrudh]

I'm still thinking that displacement scrolls and a haste clickable might be good enough...

Trouble is, I'm closing in on 11th level pretty fast and need to decide if I need to start alternating wiz levels with ranger levels right now in order to keep my skills balanced at cap...

13/3 Ranger/Wizard
12/4 Ranger/Wizard
11/5 Ranger/Wizard
11/3/2 Ranger/Wizard/Fighter

All look good!

[Thrudh]

Something else to note about having a couple of wizard levels... Having Exp Retreat on 100% of the time is great when you're soloing and kiting mobs

(And it's awesome in the lower levels before you get the House P pendant when you're running around town)

Plus Mage Armor when you're wearing robes...

AND... if you're a sneaky type (which my ranger is - try it, it's totally different way to play), having Invisibility to lose aggro, and summon monster I to distract mobs is awesome... And 100% exp retreat makes sneaking much faster :)

[Xyfiel]

I am not trying to say that the dragonmarks are better, I am just going to do some math and share it with all.

Assuming Extend is already taken.

Dragonmarks use 2 feats and 6aps for 3 extra casts.
6seconds*16levels=96seconds*2extend=192seconds*5ca sts=960/60=16minutes
Mana equivalent of casting 16minutes of displacement using extend+quicken=40*16=640

Energy of the Scholar II=50mana +3aps
Elven Arcanum II=30mana +3aps
Mental Toughness=85mana
Imp. MT=85mana
6aps and 2 feats for 250mana

Rage lasts 2x as long as displacement so all the mana you use on displacement I can use on rage.

In my case I will have the 2 mana enhancements so I am losing 6aps and 170 mana for invisibilities, +2hide, constant rage and displacement. Rage itself is worth 6aps, Ranged damage II is 4 aps, and who wouldn't trade 2 more aps for +2 con/+1will? 170mana vs 640mana worth of displacement, I pick the displacement.

Edit: Forgot to factor in the cost of quicken.

[moorewr]

I am not trying to say that the dragonmarks are better, I am just going to do some math and share it with all.

Assuming Extend is already taken.

Dragonmarks use 2 feats and 6aps for 3 extra casts.
6seconds*16levels=96seconds*2extend=192seconds*5ca sts=960/60=16minutes
Mana equivalent of casting 16minutes of displacement using extend+quicken=40*16=640

Energy of the Scholar II=50mana +3aps
Elven Arcanum II=30mana +3aps
Mental Toughness=85mana
Imp. MT=85mana
6aps and 2 feats for 250mana

Rage lasts 2x as long as displacement so all the mana you use on displacement I can use on rage.

In my case I will have the 2 mana enhancements so I am losing 6aps and 170 mana for invisibilities, +2hide, constant rage and displacement. Rage itself is worth 6aps, Ranged damage II is 4 aps, and who wouldn't trade 2 more aps for +2 con/+1will? 170mana vs 640mana worth of displacement, I pick the displacement.

Edit: Forgot to factor in the cost of quicken.



Hmm.. pure ranger, lesser mark of shadows.. tempting, if very similar to my shadow tank... (15fighter/1 bard)

[Impaqt]

Rage Potions are stil Plentiful and Cheap. You can drink as many rage postions as you want as needed and never have to worry about spell points.

[Thrudh]

Rage Potions are stil Plentiful and Cheap. You can drink as many rage postions as you want as needed and never have to worry about spell points.

Heh, same thing is true of Haste potions and Displacement scrolls...

[Xyfiel]

Ok we can take the rage portion out. Assuming we both have haste and displacement as our spells and use rage pots.

6aps and 170mana vs 7invisiblities, +2hide, 5displacements.
5 quickened and extended displacements are 200 mana, using the worst case scenario of being dispelled after cast.
Removing the 200 mana from both sides we get:
6aps vs 7invisibilties, +2hide, 30mana.
Elven arcanum is 30mana for 3aps. Let's take 3aps/30mana out too. It is a fair tradeoff we both already made once.
Leaving us in the worst case scenario:
3aps vs 7invisibilties and +2hide.
Ranger hide is 3aps if you wanted to take that you come out ahead. Even if you didn't want hide 2, you are spending 3aps for the average quest another 11 minutes of displacement. The only time the 2 feats and ap come out ahead is if you don't plan to use displacement, or the quest is done in under 5 minutes.

[Impaqt]

WHen the cap goes up to 18 I'll be taking 2 more levels of Wizard though (Unless I need 13 for second tier Arcane Archer Enhancment) for access to Firewall, Stoneskin, and enervation.

Haste potions and Displacement scrolls cant be extended. Having them as an extended spell is much better than using the equivalent consumables.

[Ciaran]

I'm actually playing this type of character right now... and was about to ask for some advice about long-term planning when I saw this thread

Currently at 8/2 ranger/wizard...

There are a lot of advantages to splashing wizard with a ranger... You get Extend for free, a bunch more Spell-points, the Shield spell (really helps when you're using two weapons, and protects against enemy magic-missiles), access to arcane wands (like Remove Curse and Stoneskin)... Rangers can already use Remove Disease wands, so being able to use Remove Curse wands as well is very nice..



The comments someone made about leveling this type of character are accurate... I'm only two levels behind normal ranger progression, yet it has been very hard to wait to 10th level for barkskin, 11th level for evasion, etc. I can't imagine waiting until level 13 for evasion like the posted build.. Evasion starts becoming very useful around 8th level and on... A high reflex score feels sub-par when you're still taking half-damage... You feel (and look) like a gimped ranger.

Of course you'll be fine once you get to the level-cap, and for many power-gamers, getting there isn't too hard... For many others though those middle levels (And I'm talking about 8-12 here, it's NOT a small stretch) are going to be tough.

I really want my 3rd favored enemy (I won't get that until level 12 - and then the Demon Queen is in big trouble)

I was intending to do 11/3 Ranger/Wizard... But with the level cap going to 16, I've also been considering 5 levels of wizard like the build detailed in this post...

My big questions are... you think a 11/5 Ranger/Wizard will have enough SP to keep displacement and haste up all the time? (Hopefully someone else will be hasting, so you only have to keep displacement up). At 8/2, I have about 400 SP (with a Magi dagger).. I try to hit everyone with barkskin, and resists on myself and anyone else who needs it... which usually drains most of my SP... I have no idea how pure rangers can manage their SP. I usually have enough left over to keep my 4 minute Shields and Exp Retreat running all the way to the next shrine.

I had planned to go
9/2 (Evasion!)
10/2 (3rd favored enemy - 3rd shot on multi-shot!)
10/3 (Blur and False Life)
11/3 (30 point resists, GTWF, Precise Shot)

But I really don't want to take the last two levels as a wizard since that will mess up my ranger skills...

I'm thinking about just using displacement scrolls for the big fights and sticking with only 3 levels of wizard (or maybe going 12/4, and waiting to the NEXT level increase to get to 13/5).

Heh, I've even been thinking about grabbing a level or two of fighter for the extra feats (so maybe a 11/3/2 Ranger/Wizard/Fighter).

I think a Ranger/Wizard is a great combination... but I very rarely see anyone playing it. I get a lot of comments on my build... many assume I'm pretty gimped... but I do very well (at least so far in the mid-levels). I can do some serious party buffing with all my SP, so I'm much appreciated by other casters. I can fight with two weapons and only have 3 AC less than someone with a +5 heavy shield... etc., etc., etc.

A ranger/wizard is very fun to play... but there is a LOT of "man, I can't wait to get to the next level!" (One tip - definitely get two levels of wizard fairly early on. 2 minute Shields are way too short; 4 minute shields work pretty well)

Character creation is so much fun in DDO....

Funny I should happen upon this thread - I was just discussing with some guildies whether or not I should stay pure ranger or splash wizard. They pointed out the free extend part and that was intriguing enough to me. I only have a base INT of 10, so I don't think I'd get any extra spell points, would I? I have some INT goggles in my bank, so I'd be able to cast wizard spells and I like that a level of wizard would give me the ability to use flame arrow wands and scrolls.

The thing is I'm level 8 right now...is it too late to start splashing wizard? I was thinking maybe getting to 11 as a ranger and then taking the last three levels of wizard. What am I missing out on by doing so?

[Xyfiel]

You will get magical training at least so 80 sps. Option of Energy of Scholar I and Elven Arcanum for cheap as well. +4int item would give 20sps. You should end up with 100-150 more sps.

My Ranger is at 7 and I have concluded being pure archer to wait till after 11 for wizard levels.

[Ciaran]

You will get magical training at least so 80 sps. Option of Energy of Scholar I and Elven Arcanum for cheap as well. +4int item would give 20sps. You should end up with 100-150 more sps.

My Ranger is at 7 and I have concluded being pure archer to wait till after 11 for wizard levels.

Ahh, thanks for pointing that out - totally spaced on Magical Training.

I think I'll do the same thing and take wizard levels after 11. I still wear armor (+4 mith BP) but I have +6 armor bracers in the bank and some nice robes as well, so I might make the switch to robes down the line. Dex should wind up in the 30/32 range I think.

The trickiest part about speciality builds - inventory tetris! :D

[GeneralDiomedes]

Personally for me as an Archer, Solid Fog is the spell I would be most interested in. Sleet storm is a possible alernative, but in my experience it doesn't slow down mobs enough.

[EinarMal]

Dragonmarks +1, they are worth way more spell points than mental toughness. Since they work off of your character level they only get better. At level 20 extended that will be 4 minute displacements versus casting them 1 minute at a time. It is much easier to keep them up all the time, and saves spell points over taking mental toughness.

If you plan on using extended displacements a lot then dragon marks are the way to go on an elf. With just extra dragon mark III, 6 AP, you are looking at 5 displacements lasting 4 minutes each between shrines.

To cast 20 minutes worth of displacements as a 5th level or even 7th level caster takes lot of spell points.

Mental toughness at level 20 even is only worth 105 spell points or 105/30 or 3.5 extended displacements lasting only a little over a minute with 7 levels of wizard (84 seconds). So, with MT and IMT you could cast 7*84=588 seconds of displacement.

It is two feats and 6 AP, but it adds up to more than MT & IMT, and it is not even close, 588 seconds versus 1200 seconds.

[ArkoHighStar]

the only thing I see as overkill is 22 int, since you are only casting buffs, int score is not as important and you really only need a 18.
Just a thought as you could put the extra points into something else like str.

[Impaqt]

Dragonmarks +1, they are worth way more spell points than mental toughness. Since they work off of your character level they only get better. At level 20 extended that will be 4 minute displacements versus casting them 1 minute at a time. It is much easier to keep them up all the time, and saves spell points over taking mental toughness.

If you plan on using extended displacements a lot then dragon marks are the way to go on an elf. With just extra dragon mark III, 6 AP, you are looking at 5 displacements lasting 4 minutes each between shrines.

To cast 20 minutes worth of displacements as a 5th level or even 7th level caster takes lot of spell points.

Mental toughness at level 20 even is only worth 105 spell points or 105/30 or 3.5 extended displacements lasting only a little over a minute with 7 levels of wizard (84 seconds). So, with MT and IMT you could cast 7*84=588 seconds of displacement.

It is two feats and 6 AP, but it adds up to more than MT & IMT, and it is not even close, 588 seconds versus 1200 seconds.

Yes, I can see that pont.. But its one spell then.... I can use the extra spell points for any spell.

I feel Displacement on this build is more of a "Whoops! Too much aggro" backup..... Its NOT a melee build. On a Melee focused build, I might be inclined to go with the Dragonmarks.

[EinarMal]

Yes, I can see that pont.. But its one spell then.... I can use the extra spell points for any spell.

I feel Displacement on this build is more of a "Whoops! Too much aggro" backup..... Its NOT a melee build. On a Melee focused build, I might be inclined to go with the Dragonmarks.

Yeah, I can see that, for constant displacement they are awesome, especially as it is one less thing to manage as keeping up 1 minute buffs (while not as bad as 30s!) can still be painful at times.

I really hope they continue to work on ranged combat, everytime I try it, I end in melee A LOT more than I intended!

[EinarMal]

I still think the middle levels for a 11/5 Ranger/Wizard build are very tough...

I am actually doing something like this and IMHO just go Ranger 1-11 that makes you a good archer and a typical Ranger. The Wizard on the end is the "whip topping". By that point the last 5 levels don't add much going pure Ranger so by adding the wizard stuff in at the end you are actually coming out ahead in many ways over a pure build.

[Impaqt]

I am actually doing something like this and IMHO just go Ranger 1-11 that makes you a good archer and a typical Ranger. The Wizard on the end is the "whip topping". By that point the last 5 levels don't add much going pure Ranger so by adding the wizard stuff in at the end you are actually coming out ahead in many ways over a pure build.

The Big drawback to doing this is SKills... WIzards get COncentration and Repair (Neither are important for this build) so you'll be cross classing your skills the last 5 levels. May not be a big deal to most, but I try to plan my characters with resonable skill sets for the build.

[binnsr]

Have you considered doing your Arcane Archer enhancements via your elven levels and using your 'Ranger Specialty' for Deepwoods Sniper? That could be interesting.. :)

[sigtrent]

Have you considered doing your Arcane Archer enhancements via your elven levels and using your 'Ranger Specialty' for Deepwoods Sniper? That could be interesting.. :)

They are most likely mutualy exclusive, although this is the first case we have had a racial "class" in an enhancement so who knows for sure?

[binnsr]

They are most likely mutualy exclusive, although this is the first case we have had a racial "class" in an enhancement so who knows for sure?
I was kind of hoping we could get an elven ranger that had checked that on Risia :)

although, perhaps I should have just said so in the first place :rolleyes:

[winsom]

I don't see your 2nd and 3rd Favored Enemy picks. I think its interesting to see what other's pick. My ranger is getting Undead, Evil Outsiders and Aberrations.


1 level of wizard doesn't get you much. some spell points, and a couple 2 minute spells.

Impaqt, you seem to want to use the Wizard levels to buff your rangers defenses? You can do this with a single level of wizard and scrolls, although there will be some scroll failure chance and Blur scroll is 3 minutes while Displacement scrolls last less than a minute... A single wizard level gets you Extend Spell and and significantly more Spell Points. Each wizard level after 1st is significantly less of a bonus, unless you plan on building a good wizard-offense as well. Wizard 3rd might be an OK (not good) stopping-point for a DDO Arcane Archer that mostly wants to fight with weapons rather than spells.

If you plan to start with INT 13 or 14 (drow 15+) and wear the best INT item you can find, your spell DCs will not be that different from INT 17+ wizards. You would also have to put at least some level-up points into INT, rather than all DEX.. If you want multiple Wizard levels you really want a good INT, in my opinion, otherwise there is a lot of unused potential you are paying levels for.

I think if you want to take more than 1 to 3 wizard levels then you should be trying to play an actual wizard, at least part-time, rather than a buffed-up Ranger.

Consider how Base Attack Bonus +16 is required for Many-shot to fire off 4 arrows at once. That is a very potent character ability. You would have to be ranger 14/ Wizard 5 = 19th level before you can do what other archers are doing at 16th.
Ranger 15th is another favored enemy and +2 damage to all previous favored enemies. You could plan for Ranger 15/ Wizard 5th, but I think if you are going to invest that much into wizard you might as well get a lot more out of the wizard class by taking at least 7 wizard levels (Charm Monster, Solid Fog, Wall of Fire, etc).

I have a ranger that will look like: Ranger 11/Fighter 7 or 8, and might take Ranger 12 or Wizard 1. I started with INT 13, so the Wizard choice is feasible. Note that I'm heavily building for combat (base attack and enhancements) so I'm limiting my Wizard levels to one or zero. I am also not considering Arcane Archer though, but I could easily enough if I spent a feat on Mental Toughness and the other feat pre-reqs.

[EspyLacopa]

Consider how Base Attack Bonus +16 is required for Many-shot to fire off 4 arrows at once. That is a very potent character ability. You would have to be ranger 14/ Wizard 5 = 19th level before you can do what other archers are doing at 16th.
Ranger 15th is another favored enemy and +2 damage to all previous favored enemies. You could plan for Ranger 15/ Wizard 5th,

Actually you'd hit BAB +16 at Ranger 14, Wizard 4, so level 18.