Please eval my Ranger/Rogue build

[edventure]

Trying to accomplish DPS/Trapmonkey with decent range capability.

This is with no equipment. (Can't figure out how to use the Equip button in the builder.)

Assume some type of +5 dex item. I have a Silver Bow and a Tortured Livewood bow waiting for him.

Toughness will also get respecced out at some point. Any suggestions for what?


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 True Neutral Elf Male
(2 Rogue \ 12 Ranger)
Hit Points: 144
Spell Points: 177
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 18
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 13 14
Dexterity 18 25
Constitution 10 10
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 14 14
Charisma 9 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

Feat/Enhancement
Modified Skills
Skills (Level 14)
Balance 11
Bluff 0
Concentration 0
Diplomacy 0
Disable Device 20
Haggle 0
Heal 2
Hide 18
Intimidate 0
Jump 11
Listen 6
Move Silently 18
Open Lock 25
Perform n/a
Repair 2
Search 21
Spot 12
Swim 2
Tumble 11
Use Magic Device 17

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I

Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Hide I
Enhancement: Ranger Move Silently I

Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Level 4 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Damage I

Level 5 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I

Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Item Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I

Level 8 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II

Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Search I
Enhancement: Ranger Spot I

Level 10 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Ranger Jump I

Level 11 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Attack II

Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack II

Level 13 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage II

Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost IV

[MysticRhythms]

I'm not a fan of Toughness on Elves

Secondly, I believe Rogue3/Ranger11 is a better split.

That matters less when the cap is raised, however.

[Zenako]

mmmm (looks at his own Elven Ranger 12 Rogue 2 character) and thinks he is almost looking in the mirror, down to starting stats. (We do differ some on the feats and enhancments, but many are the same).

Trades-off of 12/2 vs 11/3 can be debated and they probably depend on the flavor of play and gear you have.

You could also think about the feats based on gameplay. Do you want the better TWF or something like Improved Crit: Ranged. With a nice bow user, the improved crit helps.

I would also suggest looking at the upcoming changes to some of the Ranger skills that are dicussed on the Developers Forum.

Also why True Neutral instead of Good for example?

Your trap skills will good enough for pretty much everything in the game. (Jareko gets stopped by The Trap in Cabal on higher than normal settings....have done it on normal.)

Depending on group play, you might forget some of the enhancements if you find you are not coming close to using them.

Also echo the opinion on Toughness. Since you do not get FTR or Dwarven enhancements to boost the benefit there are other feats might provide more bang for the buck.

[edventure]

mmmm (looks at his own Elven Ranger 12 Rogue 2 character) and thinks he is almost looking in the mirror, down to starting stats. (We do differ some on the feats and enhancments, but many are the same).

Good. I got the idea from one of your posts in the Gimped Ranged thread. I liked the idea of a sneaky sniper.


You could also think about the feats based on gameplay. Do you want the better TWF or something like Improved Crit: Ranged. With a nice bow user, the improved crit helps.

Doesn't Improved Crit: Piercing work for Rapier and Bows? They both do piercing damage.


Also why True Neutral instead of Good for example?

Mostly for the use of Stability items and to help defend against aligned attacks in the higher content.


Your trap skills will good enough for pretty much everything in the game. (Jareko gets stopped by The Trap in Cabal on higher than normal settings....have done it on normal.)

Good, that's what I was after. The first Rogue/fighter I made couldn't find/disable the traps in (rats I forget the name.) the one where you can get a Planar Gird.


Depending on group play, you might forget some of the enhancements if you find you are not coming close to using them.

I'll probably wind up dumping enhancements every once in a while to re-optimise.

[edventure]

I'm not a fan of Toughness on Elves

Secondly, I believe Rogue3/Ranger11 is a better split.

That matters less when the cap is raised, however.

Toughness won't stay long. Mostly to add some extra HP during the rogue levels. It'll probably be gone by 4th.

Rogue 3 for the extra skills, or the extra d6 of sneak attack?

[Zenako]

Good. I got the idea from one of your posts in the Gimped Ranged thread. I liked the idea of a sneaky sniper.

thanks

Doesn't Improved Crit: Piercing work for Rapier and Bows? They both do piercing damage.

Nope, need Pierce for Rapier and Ranged for bows. I had a long whine about how easy it is to confise the two last year and it took a shard and gold to undo the error. Even though bows do piercing damage, they require Improved Crit:Ranged to increase the Critical Range

Mostly for the use of Stability items and to help defend against aligned attacks in the higher content.

Fine, I have a True Neutral Fighter using stability stuff as well, just curious since it does make using xxxx of pure Good weapons harder.

Good, that's what I was after. The first Rogue/fighter I made couldn't find/disable the traps in (rats I forget the name.) the one where you can get a Planar Gird.

With Ranger Buffs (Spells) which adds +10 to spot and listen I can hit about 47 on spot these days IIRC. Makes seeing those hiding enemies at range pretty easy. With 14 INT you will have enough Skill Points to keep the core skills maxed out.

I'll probably wind up dumping enhancements every once in a while to re-optimise.
always an option as you find out which things are getting used more and which are less.



It is a fun build and has a lot of utility. I do however not try and consider myself a dps type. I used to use things like Cursespewer and Destruction weapons in Tempest Spine for example. Let the heavy hitters take down the Blackguards, while I made them a lot easier for everyone. I now have other good gear (paralyzers, W/P, Disrupters, etc) in both Pointy weapons and bows. Something like Madstone is a LOT easier when everything in those halls all get Paralyzed at once.

I was also very soloable and have done many thing solo. Solo takes longer, sometimes a lot longer, but can be very rewarding for the sense of accomplishment it can give you.

[Yaga_Nub]

Doesn't Improved Crit: Piercing work for Rapier and Bows? They both do piercing damage.

No. You'll need IC:Ranged for Bows.

[MysticRhythms]

Rogue 3 for the extra skills, or the extra d6 of sneak attack?

Sneak Attack

[Zenako]

Another thing you might consider.

I took Precision early on. That is a +4 to hit you cannot get from anything else. IF you are just doing effects and stat damage, this works fine. I later on swapped it out for something else (around 12th level IIRC). I know that that +4 to hit helped (along with weapon finesse) to make sure I was landing the curses and destructions against high AC mobs. Now at cap, the +4 was no longer needed for routine success. You can view Feats as changeable over time, since they are. Weapon Finesse at first level instead of toughness will make melee a lot more successful early on when actually hitting the mobs is more of a challenge.

[edventure]

Another thing you might consider.

I took Precision early on. That is a +4 to hit you cannot get from anything else. IF you are just doing effects and stat damage, this works fine. I later on swapped it out for something else (around 12th level IIRC). I know that that +4 to hit helped (along with weapon finesse) to make sure I was landing the curses and destructions against high AC mobs. Now at cap, the +4 was no longer needed for routine success. You can view Feats as changeable over time, since they are. Weapon Finesse at first level instead of toughness will make melee a lot more successful early on when actually hitting the mobs is more of a challenge.

I can't get finesse at 1st unless I start with Ranger. Rogue 1 has a 0 BAB. If I do that I lose out on all the 1st level skills. I think with the 14 Str he'll be ok for a while. I wonder if I can swap Toughness for WF at 2nd? Does Fred look that close?

Since IC:Piercing doesn't cover bows like Yaga Nub pointed out I could swap Precision for IC:Bows at 9th.

Basically

1st Toughness
2nd swap Toughness for Finesse
3rd Precision
9th swap Precision for IC:Bows.

Would that work?

[Zenako]

I can't get finesse at 1st unless I start with Ranger. Rogue 1 has a 0 BAB. If I do that I lose out on all the 1st level skills. I think with the 14 Str he'll be ok for a while. I wonder if I can swap Toughness for WF at 2nd? Does Fred look that close?

Since IC:Piercing doesn't cover bows like Yaga Nub pointed out I could swap Precision for IC:Bows at 9th.

Basically

1st Toughness
2nd swap Toughness for Finesse
3rd Precision
9th swap Precision for IC:Bows.

Would that work?

Fred is a very picky customer and looks VERY closely at not only what you have, but at exactly when you took the feats. I think I might have taken Ranger then Rogue at level two which would have given me more feat options at the expense of some skill points but that was over 18 months ago now. I forgot that Rogue 1 is still 0 BAB.... You could work the planner and see how much of a hit it really is. What would those 8 net skill points go into. (base difference of only 2 times 4 for first level multiplier).

[edventure]

Fred is a very picky customer and looks VERY closely at not only what you have, but at exactly when you took the feats. I think I might have taken Ranger then Rogue at level two which would have given me more feat options at the expense of some skill points but that was over 18 months ago now. I forgot that Rogue 1 is still 0 BAB.... You could work the planner and see how much of a hit it really is. What would those 8 net skill points go into. (base difference of only 2 times 4 for first level multiplier).

UMD is a cross-class skill for Rangers so that would probably have to go, other 4 would come from Tumble. I never seem to remember to use that in actual play anyway.

I'll try to run it through again w/o bothering with enhancements and see what happens.

[Zenako]

Yah, I have no UMD skill (just figured as a ranger with access to healing wands that would be enough) and trying to get a decent CHA on top of other skills would be hard. Except for my pure rogue, no else even bothers much with Tumble anyway. Since in the current game Skill points are the only thing (except taken levels) that you cannot fix (Feats and Enhancements can be changed) if you make a mistake, need to think about those carefully. I will also admit that I did not really think much about UMD back when rolling up the character. I was going to be a Dex focused Ranger with certain Rogue Skills on top. I learned the need for rogue skills like DD and OL from my brief time playing with an account while visiting a relative and running into locked doors and chests a lot. Level cap was still 10 back then too.

[edventure]

I have him created. He has to start as rogue or I'll lose 2 points each of DD and OL because they're cross class for Ranger. He hasn't eaten the tomes yet, so he could be redone.

My only concern now is alignment. He's neutral to use stability items and protect from aligned attacks (good or evil.) Is there a good reason to go with something else? If so, what?

[QuantumFX]

e - Just a couple things.

1) If you're comfortable playing the rogue in a group you should consider a 1 Rogue/13 Ranger. It's easy to live without evasion until level 10. And if you're patient going 1 Rogue/15 Ranger will pay off. (Tempest II is most likely going to have a Ranger 15 Requirement.)

2) Feats: Grab them in this order Toughness, Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus: UMD, IC: Peircing, IC: Ranged. Then when Mod 6 arrives respec Toughness for Dodge and Skill Focus: UMD for Mobility. Take Spring Attack as your level 15 feat and you'll be eligible for the Tempest I (and II come mod 7).

3) Stats: I'd pull 1 point from WIS and put it into CON. (Might as well consider as many +1 tomes as you can get your hands on.)

4) Alignment: Stay True Neutral (best alignment in game for a UMD user that isn't part paladin.)

[edventure]

I did end up going with Ranger 16/ Rogue 1. He's currently capped and working on a Min2 bow. I just need 1 more L scale and L arrow.

I do have a problem with low hit points though. That's why I started keeping him ranged. Now since he's aced out of the Ranger cap, should I start to bring up his Rogue levels for the sneak attack bonus?