Devs: It's time to get rid of or change kill counts in the experience report........

[Mhykke]

I personally don't mind them, but they cause some tension, enough to have people look to other builds and classes to post about how to go about limiting (nerfing) those classes.

Either add a whole bunch more info to them (damage taken, absorbed, damage dealt, healed, etc. etc.) or just get rid of them altogether.

Maybe then people will look how to improve their own character w/o looking to take down other characters.

DDO is great, lots of variety among all characters...sure, some classes could use a little boost.....but if we can take away, or change one of the things that cause tension between players in the game, I'm all for it.

It's about time.

[KoboldKiller]

/signed

I have a guildie that turns into a zerging fool everytime he falls behind in kill counts causing all to chase him and taxes the cleric. Not really needed anyway as it adds nothing to the game IMHO.

[maddmatt70]

/not signed. I don't want to live in ignorance although I would like more information..

[Mhykke]

/not signed. I don't want to live in ignorance although I would like more information..


So aren't you signing the add more to them part? :D

[SableShadow]

/signed (the add more info part)

One of the things I love about CoH/V (my other game) is the amount of available feedback. You can see pretty quickly if you're contributing compared to the rest of the group, and by how much...this lets you get better, faster at the game than any other single thing.

A *huge* issue in DDO is the time-to-level vs learning-curve; I think better feedback mechanisms will go a long way toward fixing that.

[pikkumyy28]

I would love to see a personal cumulative data. Something like the # of monster types killed, Hours spents with each character, Hours spent in groups vs. solo time, number of times you've casted specific spells, and more...

[Blind_Skwerl]

I think they should put up a stat in addition to the "kill" count.
Total damage dealt. We could easier compare builds this way.
Also wouldn't mind seeing hp healed by other characters. Can see who needs to work on their D. ;)

[redoubt]

While I would like more info, whats gonna happen when people see the damage dealt by either DPS caster, a clerics BB or a PK/FOD caster who punches through a 1000+hp mob with each pk???

I'd love to see more data in my report, but don't show all that stuff to the whole group.

/mostly signed

[Blind_Skwerl]

I would love to see a personal cumulative data. Something like the # of monster types killed, Hours spents with each character, Hours spent in groups vs. solo time, number of times you've casted specific spells, and more...

We used to have this in Asheron's Call. We could also see how many times we had died. Some were shocking! :eek:

[GramercyRiff]

If changing this takes away from them giving us new content or being able to market this game, I'm against it.

We need frequent new content to keep people here, and marketing to get more people here.

While I think kills take away from the team aspect (it can create zerging and overcasting), I don't think it's a big enough deal to warrant a change. Don't get me wrong, DnD is a game where you need as much feedback as possible to gauge your effectiveness. I'd love for us to get more information on what we can and can't do. At this point in the game, however, that should've been done long ago. For whatever reason the game was released with minimal feedback. It's been the burden of the devs since then to try and catch up. They've done a decent job at it so far, but I'd really rather them focus on other things at the moment. They have bigger fish to fry.

[Jaywade]

I don;t like just the kill count ....it could stay if we get soemthing like this

....................... Kills................TDD (total damage delt)....HP Healed.............. highest damge ................Deaths
Asxeslar (bar............. 42 .................5782.......................... 1248 ...................... 178 ....................... ...... 8
Blaster (sorc)......... 52................. 11562 .............................. 245 .................... 1328............................. 1
Fortress (AC fighter)....10..................840............... .................... 95........................ 65................................ 0
Blackstaber (rogue)......39 ................1253 ..................................240............. ............132 ............................ 8


I think something like this would be really neat keep kill count but gives a total damage count a totaled healed amount and a highest damage number .... and dealth counter would be needed

[DiscordianPunk]

Why not just have a party count total?

[Prinstoni]

Why not just leave it as is, fix the issues that need fixed, and get some new content out...

[krud]

I really don't like the kill count report.

However, if people want more info it should not be a very difficult thing to figure out. As it is now, calculating kill count is simply matter of looking into the combat log and wherever one sees "you killed xxx" that person gets the kill. It wouldn't be hard at all to tally all the other information from the combat log either. Totaling the damage dished out, damage taken, HP healed, hit %, etc for each individual would function the same way, so it's not a complicated matter. Anything that is not reported in the combat log will not get reported, and I would not support anything that would further complicate the combat log just so some people can get their e-pen up.


Why not just have a party count total?they already do

[Giselle]

/signed (more info part)

I'm working on my first real tank. Oh, my first toon was a tank, but she was really really bad and I killed her at about seventh level and never looked back. Since then, I've had several cleric and caster types that I've capped, but never really had a tank again. I play with a friend who has capped several tank types, and he wipes me away on the kill count all the time. However, when I'm playing with pugs or some other guildies, I hold my own or win the kill count. Since it's the only way we have to gauge our effectiveness as a tank, I look at it. However, he just hit level ten on his barbarian: VORPAL TIME! My kill count was absolutely pathetic, and some kind of stat to say, "Yes, little camper, he got all the kills because he has a vorpal, but you're still a good tank! ::pat head:: Now scamper off and kill something!" would be nice.

[Jack_No.7]

simply because one had a bigger killcount doesnt make him the better player or chosen class/build
just means ur the one who got the last hit, and whats wrong with rethinking ur class/build?
keeping constant track of ur killcount to mock the barbarian, is childish. checking your killcount to c that the barbarian has triple digits at the end of the mission to ur 15... priceless

classes are meant to do certain things... any class can do what they wish certain classes exceed at certain skills
im sorry but if ur in a group with a well equiped barbarian.. chances are u wont c much killcount

[Impaqt]

/signed

I have a guildie that turns into a zerging fool everytime he falls behind in kill counts causing all to chase him and taxes the cleric. Not really needed anyway as it adds nothing to the game IMHO.

Ugh.. THis is why many clerics dont have fun inthis game.....

Tell your guildy to let him die..... How many kills can you get when your in the clerics pocket?

We dont need any changes to to this.. We dont need more info.....

Totally /NOT signed

[Borror0]

I say /signed, but only if you add more information:


Damage dealt
Damage taken
Kills


That's what we'd need. Otherwise, just leave it there.

[Stormanne]

Though I only started playing a cleric a couple of days ago, I'd like to see a "Points Healed" for the healing classes. So the straight up healers get a little love in the stats box. With my main being a barbarian, I know I'm a mana sponge to the cleric. I think that if it popped up that "Such and Such required XX amount of healing from This Cleric" over the course of the quest, clerics would get even more respect, especially since a healing cleric would have nothing else up in the stat box.

[Borror0]

Though I only started playing a cleric a couple of days ago, I'd like to see a "Points Healed" for the healing classes. So the straight up healers get a little love in the stats box.

If so, I'd consider the "points healed" to also consider potions. So if my fighter healed himself more than the cleric did, I mgiht want to remember the cleric's name. ;)


Especially since a healing cleric would have nothing else up in the stat box.

I know a few clerics that get a lot of of "damage dealt" from their BB.;)

[Gum]

/Signed

For the more info part. As a cleric I would love to get a bonus for no death, or see how many in capped players I brought back, or my max heal, most neg. lvls restored, etc. As far as it starting arguments, I say rise above it and be mature, but that's just my opinion and I'm not everyone else.

[Twerpp]

Lets take everything out of the game that hurts peoples delicate feelings. How insecure do you have to be to let that bother you anyway? Go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

/not signed.

[BlueLightBandit]

There's one small problem here... for every stat you add in here, theres seventeen you can't describe... for example:

Kill count exists but it isn't very informative, so you add total damage. Do you include the damage -past- the kill, i.e. mob has 10hp, you swing for 12, do you get credit for doing 12 points of damage or only the 10?

You want points healed, but now you have to add a section for -who- healed you, whether it was the cleric, or the bard, or pots... or even the umd sorceror. Here alone there would have to be six lines for each player, and that in a raid would be ridiculous.

Then, compounded on top of all that, you're gonna get crowd control specced characters that don't really have a numerical value to what they do... maybe seconds stunned??? to contain greater command, bards songs, hypnotism, charm, flesh to stone? and then those cold spells that stun the undead, except now you have to enact a system to adequately describe this type of spell as both doing damage and stunning the mob.

After you add all that in, if you have enough room left on the quest xp log, then the stat damagers are going to see nothing... so you have to add a section for them to be fair... after stat damagers there's intimidation and sunder and lord knows what else you'd have to add.

So in order to do this correctly, they'd literally have to make a window, five screens tall, just to get a few more pieces of information that you realistically can do without anyway. DDO should never be about stats and kill counts... it should be about achieving a goal as a team. When a person changes the way they play based on a numeric value that truly indicates very little... it shows a great deal about that player. I for one would not agree with a change to accommodate an accountant or an auditor. If numbers are what you are after, DDO probably leaves a lot to be desired... you know with the lack of turns and the whole "real-time" combat system and all.

[GuitarHero]

BLB kinda hit the nail on the head for me, so i won't really parrot what he said, but i do add, the Experience Report has all the numbers i need... they're down at the bottom... yeah, the experience....

[GlassCannon]

If I were on the team or in charge.

Full Character Output Reports.

Damage given
Damage taken
Damage healed(non-spell)
Damage healed(spell)
Kills
Plinks(kills on 10% or less that they did less than 40% damage on)
Spellpoint % used overall
Rolls below 3 on skill checks
Rolls above 17 on skill checks
Times dead
Times raised/resurrected
Crowdkills(3 or more at one time)
Spells failed due to arcane failure
Scrolls used
Wands consumed
Bolts fired
Arrows fired
Accuracy rating(hits vs misses vs actual shots rolled)
Mnemonic Potions consumed
High level scrolls used(caster lvl 5+)

Overall party contribution rating(E = Exceptional, A = Above average, S = Satisfactory, B = Below average, N = Needs improvement/practice)

OPC would be based on quest/class/primary skills.

This would be clientside and would help to synch server shots fired/accuracy/etc to show where the bugs are at with better accuracy. For slower conns it could be serverside in a small cache.

[BlueLightBandit]

Overall party contribution rating

Wow... I disagree with the concept of this entirely.

Like I said earlier, if you need to assign a numerical value to a persons value to a party then you are missing the entire point of DDO.


He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination.

[Vormaerin]

Yeah, the rating concept is a joke. For one thing, its a zero sum game. So its not possible for a fighter to up his rating without taking away from the sorceror or the barbarian.. there's only so much in the way of bad guys to abuse. On top of that, the system proposed is specious. What do you rate the contribution of an actual (yeah, rarely seen in DDO) tank? He sure isn't killing as much as the barb or the sorceror or using up spell points. He's just grabbing aggro, holding doorways, and generally not dying or letting anyone else die. Or the crowd control buffing sorts of spellcasters? They certainly contribute, but what do you go by? Spell points expended? That certainly creates bad incentives....

Party contribution is very subjective. The guy who kills the most may not, in fact, be the most useful team member. Or even a desirable team member in some cases.

[Max2000]

Making it disable/enable by party leader would be a good idea.

Some people might prefer knowing the kill count, some people might want it off to prevent problems mentioned above.

[Hvymetal]

Wow... I disagree with the concept of this entirely.

Like I said earlier, if you need to assign a numerical value to a persons value to a party then you are missing the entire point of DDO.
QFT

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

This question is foolishly asked. No chance AT ALL that ANY idea will be agreed upon by all.

So you rename the XP report to Quest Summary and add a contributions chart for others is the only alternative.

Eliminating kill count is ridiculous. Meeles contribute and their output should REMAIN documented. A small contributions chart to highlight contributions of the hard work of a Cleric and/or a Bard and/or Crowd Control caster would certainly be beneficial.

But in reality....

It will never happen because someone would always get left out, which is why they didnt include it in the first place. So I say hooray to DDO devs for making a good decision and Boooo to a poor question.

------->

Of course GOOD (and TIMELY) new content will be the only way this game stays alive. Oh and advertising. I like the promotion they are doing now with free time if we get another player. I suggested at game launch that they should have ALWAYS had that promotion live..

Im a big DDO fan that wants to see this game stay alive.

[Draclaud]

You don't like the kill count because...
A. People that don't keep up in the kill count whine about some body's character being overpowered.
B. People that are over obsessed with the kill count zerg when they fall behind.

and you'd rather see a more detailed report so everyone can feeeeeeeel better abouth them selves?

Look, there is nothing wrong with the kill count. As a mele it lets you know how effective your being. If you're a DPS based fighter/barb and you're getting outkilled by a rogue it lets you know it's time for a reroll. If you whine about it...get some cheese.
People that get obsessed abut the kill count and zerg are only fooling themselves about the effectivness of their characters(as they skew the results).

I'm sorry but the kind of thinking you are showing here is kinda dangerous as it's the same thinking that makes us quit keeping score at little league games and quit giving letter grades in school so everyone feeeeeeels better about themselves reguardless of weather or not the actually have a reason to feel good about themselves...

Keep the kill count, stop whining, there are better things to focus on and get over it...

Just my 2 cp...

[Mhykke]

You don't like the kill count because...
A. People that don't keep up in the kill count whine about some body's character being overpowered.
B. People that are over obsessed with the kill count zerg when they fall behind.

and you'd rather see a more detailed report so everyone can feeeeeeeel better abouth them selves?

Look, there is nothing wrong with the kill count. As a mele it lets you know how effective your being. If you're a DPS based fighter/barb and you're getting outkilled by a rogue it lets you know it's time for a reroll. If you whine about it...get some cheese.
People that get obsessed abut the kill count and zerg are only fooling themselves about the effectivness of their characters(as they skew the results).

I'm sorry but the kind of thinking you are showing here is kinda dangerous as it's the same thinking that makes us quit keeping score at little league games and quit giving letter grades in school so everyone feeeeeeels better about themselves reguardless of weather or not the actually have a reason to feel good about themselves...

Keep the kill count, stop whining, there are better things to focus on and get over it...

Just my 2 cp...

It's not me that doesn't like the kill count. I'm fine with it. I just think that maybe leaving it how it is creates more problems than are needed. I'd be for adding more to the xp report. Sure, you'll probably always leave things out, but this isn't an argument for doing nothing. Saying you'll never be able to include everything shouldn't preclude turbine from trying to incorporate more, even if that more is short of everything.

I'd rather not get rid of them. I'd like to see more, so that people don't just look at kill count numbers, get p#ssed, and come to the forums crying for nerfs....at least that's one reason.

[GuitarHero]

Look, there is nothing wrong with the kill count. As a mele it lets you know how effective your being. If you're a DPS based fighter/barb and you're getting outkilled by a rogue it lets you know it's time for a reroll.

Why? Are you so insecure that your big beafy barbarian is getting outkilled by the tiny little rogue that you have to delete him? Rogues are DPS, too, you know? We do more than take care of those pesky boxes to traps that everyone's running through.

Besides, as kill count only counts whoever gets the LAST hit, a barbarian with a greataxe is getting about half as many attacks as a rogue with a rapier and shortsword, so the rogue is twice as likely (66%) to get the last hit in than the single weaponed barb (33%), regardless if that last hit is for 200 points of damage, or just a lowly 80 (and yes, my rogue can regularly hit for 80+ damage without getting aggro.)

[BUpcott]

Look, there is nothing wrong with the kill count. As a mele it lets you know how effective your being. If you're a DPS based fighter/barb and you're getting outkilled by a rogue it lets you know it's time for a reroll. If you whine about it...get some cheese.

Well if you are holding agro allowing said rog to get his sneak attack (which is up to what 7d6 right now) than you are certainly doing your job. Rog can deal out massive DPS as can Rangers, as can Bards. So kill count does not effectively tell you how efficient you are being but only how many last shots you got.

[RichD]

I think they could come up with a relatively compact report that would give people a fair idea of how each person contributed on the quest. It could be formatted as a table with a column per party member and the following rows (some of which with multiple values) - example entries shown in parentheses:

Kills (26)
Deaths (0)

Damage Given/# of mobs damaged (436/42)
Damage Taken/# of mobs & traps damaged by (200/31)

Mobs Held/Mezzed/Charmed/Debuffed (0/5/0/0)
# of Times Held/Mezzed/Charmed/Debuffed (1/1/0/3)

Stat Damage Given/# of mobs Stat Damaged (4/1)
Stat Damage Taken/# of times took Stat Damage (0/0)

Minutes of Buffs Given (to others) (20)
Resses Given (0)
Healing Given to others (0)
Healing Taken from others (170)
Self Healing (17)

[Havok34]

All quests have a binary ending.

Did you complete the quest? Yes/No?

End of story.

That is the final determination is the quest party was worthy or not.

[MrCow]

I always found a perception check worked fine to tell me if things were running fine and who was dead weight in a group. I might roll a 1 or 3 on those checks now and then but it works enough.

I guess that puts me in the camp of "no need to add this feature".

[Ikuryo]

I personally would like more info just because I like seeing numbers and watching those numbers get bigger. As a ranger I would like to know how good of a job I am doing dealing damage and avoiding damage. I'm fairly careful about not being hit by anything as I shoot stuff down but I know that my kill numbers end up low because I soften up a lot of stuff that the melee finish off. I worry that others think I am not doing a good job hurting stuff because I normally end up in the lower set of the kill numbers. I know that I am putting out a lot of damage at times but when my kill count is 1/10 of the melee and arcanes I grow worried that it adds to the view that archer rangers are worthless in a group.

I guess I would like the additional info just so I could point to it and say "See I did contribute to the fights and did not just sit in the back with the healer watching.

[Cashiry]

Personally, I wouldn't want the time taken to do this because it detracts from the DEVS fixing the real problems. Would it be nice, Yes. We all know that the last hit/spell in gets the kill.

Alot of people who claim their builds are great because of kill counts, would finally see they are just getting the last hit in. I don't play a barbarian or a spec'd out DPS Fighter, but I do know that the overall raw power that they do have, can take a mob from full health too close to death in the matter of a few swings on most mobs, and arcane/divine casters can do the same with some of their AOE spells. This just allows some builds to take the credit where the credit isn't due/giving the self illusion that their builds are somehow good because of the kill count.

So, If they do put something like this into the quest reports, It would be welcome, just to see the self proclaimers get a reality check.

Kill count isn't the end all be all, Its how the team meshes together that determines how well your party gets through any given quest.

[Havok34]

I personally would like more info just because I like seeing numbers and watching those numbers get bigger. As a ranger I would like to know how good of a job I am doing dealing damage and avoiding damage. I'm fairly careful about not being hit by anything as I shoot stuff down but I know that my kill numbers end up low because I soften up a lot of stuff that the melee finish off. I worry that others think I am not doing a good job hurting stuff because I normally end up in the lower set of the kill numbers. I know that I am putting out a lot of damage at times but when my kill count is 1/10 of the melee and arcanes I grow worried that it adds to the view that archer rangers are worthless in a group.

I guess I would like the additional info just so I could point to it and say "See I did contribute to the fights and did not just sit in the back with the healer watching.

If kill count is the only thing people look at, then yes, someone might lead to that conclusion.

I qualify that because one of my first runs on Chamber of Raiyum took 6 hours. It was completed, but not really fun. :)

You can tell how well the group is doing without the kill count. As someone mentioned earlier. You can just tell.

My original is a Paladin. Not high DPS, but the Paladin does help in many ways. The Aura's, a little healing here and there, I can vorpal with the best, plus cursespewing, destruction, etc. Up against a pure fighter or barbarian, going to be tough to lead kill count because they do enough damage to finish off most of the mob. Like your ranger, I do soften them up quite a bit.

If you are not completely focus'd / tunnel vision you can tell how the others are doing. You don't need counters/stats to tell you that.

For some, they always want stats.

The only stat I need to see is quest completed and we had a fun time.

[Lillitheris]

Besides, as kill count only counts whoever gets the LAST hit, a barbarian with a greataxe is getting about half as many attacks as a rogue with a rapier and shortsword, so the rogue is twice as likely (66%) to get the last hit in than the single weaponed barb (33%), regardless if that last hit is for 200 points of damage, or just a lowly 80 (and yes, my rogue can regularly hit for 80+ damage without getting aggro.)

I don't know how to explain this, but your math is way off. You fail to take into account the fact that the Barb is doing at least twice the damage. Hence, it is much more likely that his hits finish the monster off. Your argument would make sense if all monsters in the game had 1 hp.

[Draclaud]

It's not me that doesn't like the kill count. I'm fine with it. I just think that maybe leaving it how it is creates more problems than are needed. I'd be for adding more to the xp report. Sure, you'll probably always leave things out, but this isn't an argument for doing nothing. Saying you'll never be able to include everything shouldn't preclude turbine from trying to incorporate more, even if that more is short of everything.

I'd rather not get rid of them. I'd like to see more, so that people don't just look at kill count numbers, get p#ssed, and come to the forums crying for nerfs....at least that's one reason.

Fair enough. Just seems like small stuff to worry about when we still get stuck in SC with Giants not spawning...


Why? Are you so insecure that your big beafy barbarian is getting outkilled by the tiny little rogue that you have to delete him? Rogues are DPS, too, you know? We do more than take care of those pesky boxes to traps that everyone's running through.

Besides, as kill count only counts whoever gets the LAST hit, a barbarian with a greataxe is getting about half as many attacks as a rogue with a rapier and shortsword, so the rogue is twice as likely (66%) to get the last hit in than the single weaponed barb (33%), regardless if that last hit is for 200 points of damage, or just a lowly 80 (and yes, my rogue can regularly hit for 80+ damage without getting aggro.)

This is a tired and not accurate agrument. I stand by my statement with one caviat if you regularly get outkilled by rogues/bow rangers/bards and your a DPS fighter or barbarian, your character is gimped and needs a reroll.


Well if you are holding agro allowing said rog to get his sneak attack (which is up to what 7d6 right now) than you are certainly doing your job. Rog can deal out massive DPS as can Rangers, as can Bards. So kill count does not effectively tell you how efficient you are being but only how many last shots you got.

Tired agrument once again. A standard greataxe weilding barb (no need to write in about how yours does more we are talking gereralities here) does 30-40 points per non critical hit and about 10-20 splash damage. Your rogue is not doing as much damage no matter how much you want to believe it is.

If they get the cap done before Valentines Day, add the Half Orcs, Gnomes, Druids, and Monks that we should have had from launch and they have enough time to change this then go knock yourself out. But I don't want them wasting resources on this.

[GuitarHero]

Tired agrument once again. A standard greataxe weilding barb (no need to write in about how yours does more we are talking gereralities here) does 30-40 points per non critical hit and about 10-20 splash damage. Your rogue is not doing as much damage no matter how much you want to believe it is.

Yes he does... My friend, you fail to see the true potential of rogues, me thinks. Ok, no gear or enhancements, assuming a plain ol' dagger...

1d4+7d6 does a minimum of 8, a maximum of 46, and an average of 23.

now, add in a +5 weapon, thats an average of 28,

now a couple ranks of sneak attack training, lets just call it 33.

Now a shoddy backstabing weapon woud bump it up to at least 35.

now, my particular dagger is +4 acid of pure good, so though that bumps down the +5 by one, it adds another +6 average damage, for a total average of 40.

Thats 40 average points of damage, on a non-crit, and with the right enhancements, tells the mob it only did 20 or so. couple that with an extra dagger of comprable make up, and thats 80 points of damage per barbarian attack, assuming both are on equal footing regarding haste.

[muffinlad]

More data, not less.

That someone acts like a dweeb, and endangers the party when they fall behind on kill count is on them, not on the rest of us. Tell them to stop, stop healing them, or stop playing with them.

I almost never look at kill count, or care, but I do look at exp (and thus see kill count....) to me, a win is a win, but I would like to understand how we are winning vs. what encounter.

regs,

muffinwhack

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

So in order to do this correctly, they'd literally have to make a window, five screens tall, just to get a few more pieces of information that you realistically can do without anyway.
:(
They could make it like the explorer area window...with highlighted links you click on.
Have all the group acomplished goals listed all the time and kill count lists only displayed after clicking on the
Highlighted word. Then have you click on the individuals name to actually see the kill counts, monsters intimidated, # crowd controlled, breakables smashed, Hp healed on self by self, Hp heals on self by others, HP healed on others, # shrines used, # times character recalled, # times character died, amount of time character spen incaped/dead/croudcontrolled,

lol.

If someone has to go through several screens to see these items then maybe they would be less concerned with how many kills they had and more concerned with what they were doing.

Because the impact of their zerging for kills would be all laid out like a buffet of good and bad...hits and errors...

And we could really judge ourselves on our value... and the value of that guy that annoyed everyone else by thinking kill counts are everything...

Please, move the kill counts off the first XP screen to a more remote location. Nest it in a third or fourth level...
So I can blast away with my Sorc, or sneak attack till I drop, without having to worry if I injured someoneelses pride because I out killed em...
Please?
I am tired of fluffing egos.

I love you Blue...
And you always lead in kill counts and group value with me...
:)

[STROBE]

I personally don't mind them, but they cause some tension, enough to have people look to other builds and classes to post about how to go about limiting (nerfing) those classes.

Either add a whole bunch more info to them (damage taken, absorbed, damage dealt, healed, etc. etc.) or just get rid of them altogether.

Maybe then people will look how to improve their own character w/o looking to take down other characters.

DDO is great, lots of variety among all characters...sure, some classes could use a little boost.....but if we can take away, or change one of the things that cause tension between players in the game, I'm all for it.

It's about time.

No, lets keep the kill count, by all means. It encourages individual accomplishment at the expense of teamwork and the synergy that comes from people working together for a group goal.

Accomplishment of individual goals - to the detriment of teamwork and group goals - is what DnD is all about! I mean we are playing this on playstation, right? I mean those other five people in my group list, those are NPC's generated by the game, right?

Nevermind several deaths per quest. Nevermind you don't pay for your own healing - that's why people play clerics so they can pay for your healing! Nevermind the party wipes you cause and the xp debt you lend to others. Kill count is worth it.

I mean it is just so entertaining to go through a quest watching kill-counters in an ever faster race to reach the mobs before anyone else so they can kill them before anyone else. Farther and farther ahead they get, until they bite off more than they can chew. Then its so exciting for them to come running back to the other party members for help, dragging so many mobs that it causes the party to wipe! GOODTIMES!

[Emili]

Besides, as kill count only counts whoever gets the LAST hit, a barbarian with a greataxe is getting about half as many attacks as a rogue with a rapier and shortsword, so the rogue is twice as likely (66%) to get the last hit in than the single weaponed barb (33%), regardless if that last hit is for 200 points of damage, or just a lowly 80 (and yes, my rogue can regularly hit for 80+ damage without getting aggro.)

That's not true, anyone with a greataxe delievers DPS as aoe much of the time. If 5 mob are around you're hitting them all to start and as you bury one you traget the next and then your hitting 4 and so on and so on...

[Emili]

I don't know how to explain this, but your math is way off. You fail to take into account the fact that the Barb is doing at least twice the damage. Hence, it is much more likely that his hits finish the monster off. Your argument would make sense if all monsters in the game had 1 hp.

Not to meantion a greataxe is an AOE weapon. IE.) if there are 5 mob around 1 is getting hit for 200 on a roll of 13 and the other 4 10-40. Plus comming back to reality people anyone can lead the bloody kill count with any class or near any build. You know what I tell people who go on 'bout kill counts - you can get all of them is you solo it:D

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Lets take everything out of the game that hurts peoples delicate feelings. How insecure do you have to be to let that bother you anyway? Go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

/not signed.

Hahahaha.... Awee common Twerpp, I'm sure Myhkke works very hard to notch his 3-6 kills on his DPS fighter. Maybe we should switch to a star system, or bananas, or maybe farm animals. Maybe we should add a principals office for those who register less than 6 kills. 30 minutes in the office with Sr. Mary "Sugar Ray" Leonard! Better wear knuckle armor, those nun's rulers can HURT (especially a TWF nun)!!!

/heck to the heck no not signed :)

DDO Devs need to concentrate on NEW CONTENT. And great promotions like they are doing this Christmas.

[Borrigain]

While I would like more info, whats gonna happen when people see the damage dealt by either DPS caster, a clerics BB or a PK/FOD caster who punches through a 1000+hp mob with each pk???

I'd love to see more data in my report, but don't show all that stuff to the whole group.

/mostly signed

Exactly, posting that kind of stuff for all to see can only lead to griefing and exclusionism.

The old, "Don't let that guy join, he didn't do any damage last time, he's useless"

That will NOT foster group play.

However, if it is just displayed at the end of a mission just for you, then that enables you to have the feedback you need to improve your character. It's really no one else's business. And that said, I don't think kill count should be displayed at all until mission completion.

So basically, instead of some schmindrict telling you "you suck" and making you feel bad, now you can go "I suck" and make your own self feel bad. :D

But at least you won't get excluded from groups.

:)
Borr.

[The_Phenx]

I don;t like just the kill count ....it could stay if we get soemthing like this

....................... Kills................TDD (total damage delt)....HP Healed.............. highest damge ................Deaths
Asxeslar (bar............. 42 .................5782.......................... 1248 ...................... 178 ....................... ...... 8
Blaster (sorc)......... 52................. 11562 .............................. 245 .................... 1328............................. 1
Fortress (AC fighter)....10..................840............... .................... 95........................ 65................................ 0
Blackstaber (rogue)......39 ................1253 ..................................240............. ............132 ............................ 8


I think something like this would be really neat keep kill count but gives a total damage count a totaled healed amount and a highest damage number .... and dealth counter would be needed

I like this idea. I use the KC to fine tune my toon. Better weapons better type modified style. And this would go a long way toward helping that out.

Oh and for those zerging fools who get themselves and the party killed... easy fix dont play with them. Its easy to build a toon with items but much harder to be a great player. Fighters should attack mobs first to make sure to keep aggro off the casters and never stray too far because you might be needed, or need some healing. And yes you can do all this while liking the KC...and oftentimes winning.

Oh and who cares if a caster outdoes a fighter... Apples to apples folks.

[DasLurch]

I think that the 1st thing that ought to be said is that we don't NEED any of this. I am also one of the people who would LIKE to see more info on those reports, but not at the expense of content. We are barely getting enough of that as it is. I think it would be fun to see some of the other stat's that come out of the adventure, but I'd much rather have more chances at adventure that this stuff updated/changed right now.

I just get weird when people start saying that they NEED things when they really don't. I tdon't mean it to be trollish, just trying to point out manners is all.

[skyking613]

Mine would probably go like this


Total Damage Dealt ----- 15734
Total SP spent ----- 1560
Total Damage Recieved ----- 311234
Total Healing recieved ----- 311233


Cleric refusing to rez me again ----- Priceless

[Oreg]

As much as I would like to see additional stats I see this as more proof and fodder for complainers to try and nerf others classes or beg for enhancements for their own. Playstyle won't be taken into account and pure numbers will dictate future changes. Not good.

[krud]

DasLurch is right. This is definitely low priority. Also, if it is not reported in the combat log, it will be more difficult to add into a combat report, it will require more dev coding. If it is already in the log it only needs something like a sum function in order to appear in the combat report. Instakill spells do not report damage, only kills, therefore PK/FoD freaks will only see high kills, but not high damage. So, before you go off and list all the things you want to see in the combat report, look into the combat log to get an idea of what kinds of things can be added. Remember, KISS (keep it simple stupid) and it is more likely to find its way into the game.

[skyking613]

I would love to see as much stats as possible, it really would help make me a better player(As I think it would a lot of us).
What could be done is that you do not see the other peoples stats. Or a Percentage. %Damage dealt/Damage recieved %SP Spent/Healing %Damage/SP

The only thing that would be hard is for the CC/Support characters. But we all know how valuble a Facsinate or some other spell can be. Maybe some type of stat for a monster killed while under a CC spell/effect for the caster. %CC Kills/SP

[DasLurch]

Another thing to think about is how long this list would make the combat/xp log. The top part already lists the bases and inquest bonuses, and that wouldn't change. then what we'd have would look like this...

Kill Count
player 1- 25
player 2- 12
player 3- 33
player 4- 5
player 5- 18
player 6- 7

Total Damage Dealt
p1-
p2-
p3-
p4- Can't even imagine what the #'s for this would be...
p5-
p6-


% of Total Damage Dealt
p1- 35%
p2- 15%
p3- 15% (insta kills)
p4- 20%
p5- 10%
p6- 5%
Conquest bonus +25%

Total Damage Healed
p1- 0
p2- 87
p3- 0
p4- 0
p5- 62
p6- 5089

% of Party Damage Healed
p1- 0
p2- 2%
p3- 0
p4- 0
p5- 1%
p6- 97%

Spell Points Used
p1- 0
p2- 110
p3- 2088
p4- 0
p5- 0
p6- 1617

% of SP Cast
p1- 0
p2- 2%
p3- 51%
p4- 0
p5- 0
p6- 47%

Secret Doors Discovered
p5- 3
Discovery Bonus +7%

Traps Disabled
p5- 5
Debilitation Bonus +10%

Breakables
p1- 32
p2- 2
p3- 55
p4- 18
p5-107
p6- 28
Ransack bonus +10%

% of XP Earned
p1-
p2-
p3-
p4- Not even going to dignify putting #'s in here
p5-
p6-


Does it seem like we're asking for a bit too much in there? This seems a bit long for a quick report in game. Can you all also imagine all of the strange "hang on a second" requests for no reason just so someone in the party can check up on their stat's on the new extra long list? I'll say again, this is not something I want at the cost of more content. I just thought that it might be beneficial to some people if they saw a small and poorly displayed example of what they are asking for.

[DasLurch]

DasLurch is right. This is definitely low priority.

:) Thanks

[krud]

It could just be a table with 3 or 4 columns. Of course, you will inevitably get some people saying "Why don't they include such and such stat which represents MY character's contribution. I really don't see how it can be done so as to satisfy everybody without damaging other people's fragile egos.

[arcanehealer]

ive seen rouge tension between the number of secret doors found

[Draclaud]

Yes he does... My friend, you fail to see the true potential of rogues, me thinks. Ok, no gear or enhancements, assuming a plain ol' dagger...

1d4+7d6 does a minimum of 8, a maximum of 46, and an average of 23.

now, add in a +5 weapon, thats an average of 28,

now a couple ranks of sneak attack training, lets just call it 33.

Now a shoddy backstabing weapon woud bump it up to at least 35.

now, my particular dagger is +4 acid of pure good, so though that bumps down the +5 by one, it adds another +6 average damage, for a total average of 40.

Thats 40 average points of damage, on a non-crit, and with the right enhancements, tells the mob it only did 20 or so. couple that with an extra dagger of comprable make up, and thats 80 points of damage per barbarian attack, assuming both are on equal footing regarding haste.

You are not going to sneak attack every enemy on every swing. Also you have a much lower attack bonus, and hit less often. I was born at night but not last night...

[Cold_Stele]

I personally don't mind them, but they cause some tension, enough to have people look to other builds and
classes to post about how to go about limiting (nerfing) those classes.

/Not signed (unless the devs give us more feedback)

You don't need to see kill counts to know which builds are currently flavour of the month.

Besides when I beat guys I never bother asking them what their build is ;)

[TWISTED.IMP]

Does it seem like we're asking for a bit too much in there? This seems a bit long for a quick report in game. Can you all also imagine all of the strange "hang on a second" requests for no reason just so someone in the party can check up on their stats on the new extra long list? I'll say again, this is not something I want at the cost of more content. I just thought that it might be beneficial to some people if they saw a small and poorly displayed example of what they are asking for.

Your list example could prove useful if you had that info. Hitting x on most quests will keep the stat sheet up after finishing out so you can review it. In your example, if I were player 6, I would realize that I am a mana sponge and a burden to the healer and I need to do something about it. It could be set up so the pointer displays the info when you courser over the name.

[Jaywade]

I like this idea. I use the KC to fine tune my toon. Better weapons better type modified style. And this would go a long way toward helping that out.

Oh and for those zerging fools who get themselves and the party killed... easy fix dont play with them. Its easy to build a toon with items but much harder to be a great player. Fighters should attack mobs first to make sure to keep aggro off the casters and never stray too far because you might be needed, or need some healing. And yes you can do all this while liking the KC...and oftentimes winning.

Oh and who cares if a caster outdoes a fighter... Apples to apples folks.

thanks I still like my format better than what else I've see listed here....kills ....total damage....avg damage (per swing or spell hit), hp healed, and deaths or maybe Rezz's it doesn;t matter...also while I agree that new content is needed I bet the foundations for this is in the game already.....so I think this could be a easy add for the Dev's

[DasLurch]

Your list example could prove useful if you had that info. Hitting x on most quests will keep the stat sheet up after finishing out so you can review it. In your example, if I were player 6, I would realize that I am a mana sponge and a burden to the healer and I need to do something about it. It could be set up so the pointer displays the info when you courser over the name.

I thought most people would think p6 was the cleric.

[Jaywade]

You are not going to sneak attack every enemy on every swing. Also you have a much lower attack bonus, and hit less often. I was born at night but not last night...

What he said .......listen I like rogues (play a multi rogue myself) ....rogues excel in "burst" damage.. so every couple of swings (providing you are piggybacking on a good fighter or barb) you can bring it..... but not every swing...a barb is doing more damage on every swing (casue of insane str damage due to rages and glancing blows) and then greater bursting damage w/ raging crit enhancements....the second you hit a crit and a backstab on the same attack attack you have to deal w/ the argo (which kills your backstab) .....that being said a great player can rule kill counts w/ a rogue....but you'll never out DPS'em a barb that's worth his salt...

[TWISTED.IMP]

I thought most people would think p6 was the cleric.

ooops, my bad! I thought p6 was healed for 5086. (Man, that would be a lot)

[GuitarHero]

You are not going to sneak attack every enemy on every swing. Also you have a much lower attack bonus, and hit less often. I was born at night but not last night...

undead, constructs, and oozes aside, a skilled rogue DOES get sneak attack on at least nearly, if not every, swing. And for the most part, my BAB is only down by 4, add in my flanking bonus, and i'm only down by 2, so hey, happy belated birthday, bro.