Rangers spot?

[Tacotacoburrito]

I don't play a ranger. My question is, should a ranger with a 42 spot be able to spot danger(trap) when a rogue with a 38 spot can? We were in threnal east lvl 9 hard. Thanks all

[Impaqt]

I don't play a ranger. My question is, should a ranger with a 42 spot be able to spot danger(trap) when a rogue with a 38 spot can? We were in threnal east lvl 9 hard. Thanks all
If he has a level of Rogue, yes. If not, No.

I seem to remeber gettins some spot checks for traps on my clerics though.. May depend onthe difficulty of the trap.

[Zenako]

Hard to give a definite answer based on my personal experince (since my capped Ranger also has two rogue levels). However, unless you have some trap skill, it may be, by definition, simply impossible to spot them or get the I sense danger warning. I do know that a high spot character (my ranger is often in the mid forties effectively 24/7) will see mobs that no one else evens know exist until they get close, which is how I can often start killing them before the rest of the party knows they are there.

[Riekan]

Rogues are given a feat at level 1 called Trapfinding. This feat allows them to sense traps with a DC higher than 20. Without this feat, you cannot sense a trap with a DC higher than 20 no matter what your spot skill is.

[Impaqt]

Rogues are given a feat at level 1 called Trapfinding. This feat allows them to sense traps with a DC higher than 20. Without this feat, you cannot sense a trap with a DC higher than 20 no matter what your spot skill is.


Unless your a Cleric and cast "Find Traps"

Nt very practical, but a cleric could find just about any trap in the game sans Cabal on hard or elite....

8.5 Ranks
2 14 INT (Not hard with a +4-+6 item)
15 Search Item
7 Find Traps Spell
4 Greater Heroism
2 Luck
-----
38.5

[Riekan]

Very true Impaqt. I forgot about the find traps spell. I don't play my casters much anymore. :cool:

[GHOSTRYDER]

Unless your a Cleric and cast "Find Traps"

Nt very practical, but a cleric could find just about any trap in the game sans Cabal on hard or elite....

8.5 Ranks
2 14 INT (Not hard with a +4-+6 item)
15 Search Item
7 Find Traps Spell
4 Greater Heroism
2 Luck
-----
38.5

isnt there scrolls for this as well? if so i assume if your ranger has umd he/she could find them too?

[Impaqt]

isnt there scrolls for this as well? if so i assume if your ranger has umd he/she could find them too?

Yup, Find trraps is availabale on scrolls... Interesting test....

Of course, if you splashed rogue for UMD, you'd already ave Trapfinding.... But if you went Bard, this could be a way toget around that.

Find traps scrols are short duration though... SO you;d have to use a lot of em if you were realy worried about traps. Some of those random traps in Feast or Famine on the doors would be a good place to check. THose lever traps can be nasty on elite.

[GHOSTRYDER]

wait....he's talking about spotting traps, the find traps spell is for "searching" for traps, so would the find traps spell actually affect your ability to "spot" the trap? or only finding it via searching?

[Impaqt]

wait....he's talking about spotting traps, the find traps spell is for "searching" for traps, so would the find traps spell actually affect your ability to "spot" the trap? or only finding it via searching?
There have been reports of FInd Traps doing some interesting things...

SInce the Spot Skill in PnP has nothing todo with SPotting traps, Its kinda uncharted territories....

I would nt be surprised at all in the "Find Traps" Spell Provides the "Trapfinding" skill on a Temporary basis. and if SPotting Traps over DC20 requires "Trapfinding" then that would grant it.

Pretty easy for a CLeric to test this..... Just need a Trap that is has a DC between 20-30. My Pure cleric can hit a 30 think ifI throw a +13 item onhim.

[ArkoHighStar]

Find Traps
School Divination
Components Verbal
Somatic

Usable Metamagic Feats
Description Grants the caster the ability to find traps much like a skilled rogue. The caster gains an insight bonus of caster level / 2 to the search skill.


the spell applies only to the search skill in that you are granted the rogue ability to find a trap and given a bonus to search. Spot does not find a trap it only gives you a warning that there is danger when you get clsoe to a trap

[GHOSTRYDER]

the skill applies only to the search skill in that you are granted the rogue ability to find a trap and given a bonus to search. Spot does not find a trap it only gives you a warning that there is danger when you get clsoe to a trap


yes, but that was the op's question, about the warning of danger or SPOT check

[ArkoHighStar]

yes, but that was the op's question, about the warning of danger or SPOT check


correct I meant to type spell not skill
edit corrected

[Impaqt]

correct I meant to type spell not skill
edit corrected
ANd have you actually tested this or are you assuming how the spell works?

AS I explained in my previous post, It makes Total sense thatthe devs would code the "Trapfinding Skill" into the FInd Traps Spell. Remeber, there is no Trap Related Spot check in PnP.... Many of our spells have pretty generic PnP Descriptions on em. It makes Total sense that Spotting traps over DC 20 would require Trapfinding as well as Searching them out. If the spell grants Trapfnding for Spot perposes, the chance that it is not granted for spot checks is pretty low.

[ArkoHighStar]

yes, but that was the op's question, about the warning of danger or SPOT check

there is nothing that indicates that trapfinding is required to get the danger symbol. I will have to test it in a low level dungeon with my ranger(lvl 8), and cleric(lvl 14) tonight to see, I can say for certain that both get the hidden door symbol. It may very well be that you have to take a level of rogue to get the danger symbol.

[GHOSTRYDER]

there is nothing that indicates that trapfinding is required to get the danger symbol. I will have to test it in a low level dungeon with my ranger(lvl 8), and cleric(lvl 14) tonight to see, I can say for certain that both get the hidden door symbol. It may very well be that you have to take a level of rogue to get the danger symbol.

cool, thanks for testing it. let us know what you find out. i remember them saying before that for search dc's over a certain number you had to have the trap finding feat, but not sure they ever stated it for spotting them

however i would assume the op was written because he had a problem spotting the danger of a trap, while the rogue with a lower spot skill didnt, if that's the case it would indicate that this rule also applies for spot. I dont know if that was the intention though

[ArkoHighStar]

ANd have you actually tested this or are you assuming how the spell works?

AS I explained in my previous post, It makes Total sense thatthe devs would code the "Trapfinding Skill" into the FInd Traps Spell. Remeber, there is no Trap Related Spot check in PnP.... Many of our spells have pretty generic PnP Descriptions on em. It makes Total sense that Spotting traps over DC 20 would require Trapfinding as well as Searching them out. If the spell grants Trapfnding for Spot perposes, the chance that it is not granted for spot checks is pretty low.

I will test tonight as I have characters in all 3 classes of high level that in a lvl 1 dungeon I should be able to spot everything if it just based on skill alone. Durks got a secret has the fire trap on the right side which I will do the following on normal setting


Rogue just run up to it, should get danger symbol without issue (control subject to ensure danger symbol is working)
Ranger just run up to it, if only spot is required should get danger symbol, if trapfinding is required then no symbol will pop up
Cleric same as ranger
Cleric with find traps cast

[DaveyCrockett]

however i would assume the op was written because he had a problem spotting the danger of a trap, while the rogue with a lower spot skill didnt, if that's the case it would indicate that this rule also applies for spot. I dont know if that was the intention though

Or it could mean that the 4pt Spot advantage held by the ranger in the OPs case was the difference.

[GHOSTRYDER]

I will test tonight as I have characters in all 3 classes of high level that in a lvl 1 dungeon I should be able to spot everything if it just based on skill alone. Durks got a secret has the fire trap on the right side which I will do the following on normal setting


Rogue just run up to it, should get danger symbol without issue (control subject to ensure danger symbol is working)
Ranger just run up to it, if only spot is required should get danger symbol, if trapfinding is required then no symbol will pop up
Cleric same as ranger
Cleric with find traps cast

well i think the question is whether or not you need to be part rogue for HIGHER dc traps, 30ish range and up, as it is for search, so im not sure the lvl 1 dungeon test would settle this question

[GHOSTRYDER]

Or it could mean that the 4pt Spot advantage held by the ranger in the OPs case was the difference.

OOPS...i misread, i was under the impression that he WAS the ranger and couldnt spot the trap while the rogue with the lesser skill could...sorry

[ArkoHighStar]

OOPS...i misread, i was under the impression that he WAS the ranger and couldnt spot the trap while the rogue with the lesser skill could...sorry

this was my impression as well that the the rogue got the danger symbol, but that the ranger did not. Otherwise if only the spot skill was required I would assume that since the ranger has a 4pt advantage he should get any danger symbol the rogue does. If he didn't then that would indicate that the trapfinding skill is required for spot to register a danger symbol. In that case the test would be valid as failure would be guaranteed no matter the level of the dungeon. If not I can switch to Gwylans Stand for a more high level test of spot, or threnal

[GHOSTRYDER]

this was my impression as well that the the rogue got the danger symbol, but that the ranger did not. Otherwise if only the spot skill was required I would assume that since the ranger has a 4pt advantage he should get any danger symbol the rogue does. If he didn't then that would indicate that the trapfinding skill is required for spot to register a danger symbol. In that case the test would be valid as failure would be guaranteed no matter the level of the dungeon. If not I can switch to Gwylans Stand for a more high level test of spot, or threnal

yea, i guess it wouldve been nice if he had been a little more clear as to why he was asking the question, who found what and who didnt, etc.

[ArkoHighStar]

well i think the question is whether or not you need to be part rogue for HIGHER dc traps, 30ish range and up, as it is for search, so im not sure the lvl 1 dungeon test would settle this question

Ok so revised test, First I will do the level 1 test to confirm whether or not trapfinding is required to spot a trap at any level. It will be considered the control. If ranger fails then all other tests are not required.

I will find a trap with a dc of over 30. I have a lvl 5 rogue that I can use to get a 30 spot, or take off items to get my high level rogue to close to 30, and then do the same test with that trap.

[Qzipoun]

I have a pure ranger with an abnormally high spot and in MANY situations I do not get a SPOT notification for a trap even if I'm standing next to a rogue with a lower spot skill who gets the message (tested this many times with guildies).

This is very annoying as I build my ranger to be a scout of sorts so the idea is to sneak ahead of the rest of the party and warn them of mobs/traps but right now I cannot spot traps...

Edit: This does not happen with every trap, but then again, sometimes my cleric spots a trap so it might only happen on specific traps or traps of a specific DC.

[ArkoHighStar]

I have a pure ranger with an abnormally high spot and in MANY situations I do not get a SPOT notification for a trap even if I'm standing next to a rogue with a lower spot skill who gets the message (tested this many times with guildies).

This is very annoying as I build my ranger to be a scout of sorts so the idea is to sneak ahead of the rest of the party and warn them of mobs/traps but right now I cannot spot traps...

Edit: This does not happen with every trap, but then again, sometimes my cleric spots a trap so it might only happen on specific traps or traps of a specific DC.

so you have gotten the symbol then. this would bolster the theory that only someone with rogue levels can spot a trap over a certain dc. Any trap in particular?

[Impaqt]

so you have gotten the symbol then. this would bolster the theory that only someone with rogue levels can spot a trap over a certain dc. Any trap in particular?

The question we need to figure out is does Find Traps Spell give the cleric "Trapfinding".

Hips should be a good test.. Ithink I normal the DC is around 28. My cleric can hit that spot check.

[ArkoHighStar]

The question we need to figure out is does Find Traps Spell give the cleric "Trapfinding".

Hips should be a good test.. Ithink I normal the DC is around 28. My cleric can hit that spot check.

That will be part of the test cleric without and cleric with. HIPs's sounds like a good candidate as the trap is right near the beginning so getting there would be fairly easy

[Ikuryo]

I have a pure ranger and now that its been brought to my attention I notice that I stopped getting the trap warning in quests about level 8 and higher. I can't be sure on the level of the quest but I know I stopped getting the spot warnings for traps like I used to. I've blundered into more traps then before but I can still see hidden mobs from quite a ways out and pop an arrow in them to warn the party. Now that I think about it I did not get the trap warning for the fire trap in Tempest spine last time I did it on elite.

With my normal gear equipped I have a spot of 29. Since the cleric trapfinding spell is just level 1 the scroll has a UMD of 20. With a normal standing UMD of 8 before spells or items I can hit that easy. Next time I do a TS run I'll try and remember to bring a couple copies of the scroll and see if I get the trap warning when I am standing next to that trap.

Edit: Looks like the spell is a lvl 2 cleric spell so the UMD is 24. Its cheap enough though so I'll buy several.

[Athaes]

I am the ranger in question from the beginning of this thread. I am level 11 with a Spot of 45 after buffs and stuffs. All I wanted was to be able to tell if there was danger nearby or not. I was not getting the danger symbol while a level 8 or 9 rogue was getting it.

[Qzipoun]

so you have gotten the symbol then. this would bolster the theory that only someone with rogue levels can spot a trap over a certain dc. Any trap in particular?

Some of the traps I could NOT spot that come straight to mind are the ones in Wiz King and Chains (I remember checking those on a prep run).

However, I know my cleric (and maybe other characters) get the spot check on the Tor traps leading to the blue dragon, that might be a bug with the actual trap though. I unfortunately cannot log into the game and test various traps out :(

But there's definitely a DC or level or something that prevents rangers from detecting traps. Mine has max ranks in spot and even with wild instincts on I get these problems (the spell is what allows me to get a higher spot than certain non-maxed rogues).

Would be nice to get a dev's input on this, would save us a lot of testing :)

[Ikuryo]

Sorry for the late reply. I just did The Church and the Cult on elite and the lvl 9 rogue could not spot or search for the traps. I could not search or spot them but after using a cleric scroll of find traps I was able to search for and find the traps. The rogue was then able to disable them. Since the scroll was giving me at most 1-2 points of search it must be the secondary effect of searching "Like a rogue" that let me find the traps. It did not help me at all with spotting the traps and they were normally found by the rogue when he walked through them and they killed him.

So it looks like the scrolls will help us to find the traps for the rogues if they cant but it does not help at all with spot so we are just as likely to walk into traps as the rest of the party. We need a way to get the rogue trap sense as well...

Alarea

[Riekan]

I am the ranger in question from the beginning of this thread. I am level 11 with a Spot of 45 after buffs and stuffs. All I wanted was to be able to tell if there was danger nearby or not. I was not getting the danger symbol while a level 8 or 9 rogue was getting it.

As stated in the beginning of the thread, as a straight Ranger, you will never be able to SPOT a trap with a DC of higher than 20, no matter what your spot skill is.

[Ikuryo]

My post was confirmation that unless we find an item or spell that grants the same bonus to spot as the cleric spell Find Traps does for search then we will not be able to spot traps higher then DC20. I was able to prove that we can search them out using the scrolls to gain the effect of Detect Traps. Now to try and find a clickie with that effect...

[Osharan_Tregarth]

The question we need to figure out is does Find Traps Spell give the cleric "Trapfinding".

Hips should be a good test.. Ithink I normal the DC is around 28. My cleric can hit that spot check.

My pure ranger has enough umd to be able to pull up a find traps scroll. I'll try and remember tonight to jump in somewhere and test out the trap warnings in HIPS.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Allright.. so a little testing... This was in hiding in plain site, on elite, the first set of traps with the spikes and the poison/acid/fire trap.

When I umd'd a scroll of find traps, I was able to search out the trap, but wasn't able to get a spot warning either way.

With the scroll, I wasn't buff'd up except for wild instincts, so I had a search of 32 and a spot of 47. I found the trap, but got no spot warning.

When I didn't use the scroll, I buff'd up all the way, and had a 40 search and a 56 spot. Wasn't able to find the trap, and got no spot warning.