Strategy enhancements dont work?

[Wizzly_Bear]

..

[Jaywade]

ok, so i looked for another thread on this and didnt see one, so, first of all, if there is one, point me there and ill read there instead. if not...

i built a wf fighter planning on being a "strategist" (stunning blow, imp trip, imp sunder, enhancements for them and such). well, i was looking at my dcs and they dont seem right. from my understanding all of their dcs =

10 + strmod + misc

i started mahr out at 18 strength. he has a +1 str item on, and +1 str enhancement. this brought all my dcs t0 15. then i took the enhancements fighter strategy sunder and trip, and wf tactics. by my calculations this SHOULD have brought trip and sb dcs to 17, and sunder to 16. however, on the tooltip for these feats, they all still show 15. so, the enhancements are bugged somehow. i sent an ingame help ticket, they referred me to bugging, which i was already filling out, but....

i dont want to hear back in two weeks whether or not the enhancements just have a visual error on the tooltip or if they actually are not applying to the feats. i dont want to put my character on hold until i hear back, but i also dont want to wind up with a gimped character b/c the enhancements are not working properly. so...

***does anyone know definitively whether or not its just a visual bug, or at least know of some way to test it?***

the combat log doesnt show anything that triggers some kinda way for me to figure it out that ive noticed.

thanks for any help given. and devs, hope its an easy fix for you :cool:

hey bud I'm at work so I can;t check for you....however my main (Hsc) is a dwarf built around improved trip/stunning blow w/ both the fight based enhancements and the raical dwarven enhancements as well I can tell he almost never misses a trip or a stun and when I use a high vert or Weighted item it is unreal...I'll check when I get hoem but I think it maight only be a visual thing


ps on a side note this doesn;t really start working well till you get to the 26-28 str range ...make sure you can achive the highest str you can .....worth double it's weight in gold...espically when they let trip named bosses again

[MrCow]

***does anyone know definitively whether or not its just a visual bug, or at least know of some way to test it?***

I have done testing changing the DC of trip (ranging from STR items to vertigo weapons) and I have found it is indeed a display bug. I think this was the quote I used about this when I was testing issues with monster skills:


In my render trip experiment I found that a normal flesh render was unable to get up on a DC 33 improved trip, but could on a DC 29 improved trip.

During this testing I changed to a lower vertigo weapons (from +10 to +6).

Enhancements and items are not being reflected properly in the DC for trip/sunder/stunning blow.

[jjflanigan]

your post doesnt seem to make sense. whats the issue if they get up on 29 but not on 33? that seems to make sense to me....unless ive just been reading too many psyc journals today and fried my brain :cool:

could you explain more pls?

He was saying that when he swapped out items (+10 vertigo versus +6 vertigo) the DC on his trip changed from a 33 to a 29 (but wasn't reflected that way in the display). He could tell it was working, however, based on the results against the target -- i.e. when it was a 33 (with the +10 item) they were unable to get up, but when it was a 29 (with the +6 item) they were able to get back up. This proved that the DC was increasing regardless of what the UI said.

[Staedtler]

Why in the world don't you people go test things in the PVP pits with a friend? "Testing" against mobs is just educated guessing.

From the testing I have done (in the pits, so I can say this with 100% accuracy) strategy enhancements do not show up on the tooltips but they DO increase the DC

I've bug reported this after every major upgrade since I first noticed it three months ago. Nothing has changed.

[MrCow]

I'd hate to take the easy way out of this but... what jjflanigan said. :p

I do admit in retrospect that the post I made was lacking and could have been explained much more clearly. I also assume too much of what the reader can decipher. So, I apologize for frying your brain further than it needed to be.

[MrCow]

Why in the world don't you people go test things in the PVP pits with a friend? "Testing" against mobs is just educated guessing.

The bulk of this game is Player versus Environment (aka, people in the dungeon). It makes perfect sense to test what people are most apt to be able to be using their abilities on, especially when there are ways to gather up information on the monster test subjects. If I tested solely in PvP I would have never been able to provide meaningful bug reproduction data on:


Halt Undead doesn't work right on intelligent undead
Mummies are not getting a more powerful Despair Aura with increased CHA
Skills on monsters do not change as they should
Enervation doesn't lower a monsters HD for intimidation/diplomacy/bluff checks
Vampire Knights are not properly getting their will save calculated (and is much lower than it should be)


Many of the bugs I uncover are due to the sheer fact that I do not do any form of testing in PvP. Also, give me a flesh render any day of the week. They are so multipurpose for testing purposes and I can pick one up at my local Waterworks. :D

[MrCow]

Yep, Warforged/Dwarven tactics works for trip, improved trip, sunder, improved sunder, and stunning blow. I had a noticeable difference on improved trip, sunder, and stunning blow when I dropped it (although I don't have any hard data to back this statement up like I do for the trip DC).

[Jaywade]

ah, one more. the wf tactics enhance says "combat maneuvers such as trip and stunning blow." the wording seems to imply that there are others...

are there?

does it affect sunder?

and the others mention specifically trip and improved trip...does wf tactics affect the improved versions as well?

as cow said oit does affect sunder ....however ...if you build you toon right to be effective w/ trip and stunning blow (ie you have a high str and a max BAB casue if you don;t know ....to trip or stun you must first hit the mob) you don;t need to ever sunder...I find it not worth it you could always use a destruction weapon for the crazy insane Ac monster...but if you get to a 30 str and a full BAB you are not going to miss I mean I think Hsc hit's most things w/ a 2 ...so I sunder to be useless in the end game ...although it could help a lot in lvling up to 14 I would reset my Ap's after 11 or so cause your Ap's could be better spent somewhere else Imprioved trip is worth it ....Sunder ughh (and besides they are easier to hit when you trip them and a auto crit when you stunn)

[Staedtler]

The bulk of this game is Player versus Environment (aka, people in the dungeon). It makes perfect sense to test what people are most apt to be able to be using their abilities on, especially when there are ways to gather up information on the monster test subjects. If I tested solely in PvP I would have never been able to provide meaningful bug reproduction data on:


Halt Undead doesn't work right on intelligent undead
Mummies are not getting a more powerful Despair Aura with increased CHA
Skills on monsters do not change as they should
Enervation doesn't lower a monsters HD for intimidation/diplomacy/bluff checks
Vampire Knights are not properly getting their will save calculated (and is much lower than it should be)


Many of the bugs I uncover are due to the sheer fact that I do not do any form of testing in PvP. Also, give me a flesh render any day of the week. They are so multipurpose for testing purposes and I can pick one up at my local Waterworks. :D

This is true, but for figuring out "what's the DC for so and so?", PvP is the only way to go. There was a thread earlier this week wondering if messed up spell DC tooltips actually changed the DC (try equipping a Reaver Napkin and you'll see what the problem is). The thread was full of anecdotal evidence of "well I ran this quest and everything saved!" and "I ran the same quest and didn't notice a difference!" The obvious solution was to go to the pit and get a friend to sit through a few spells.

Just because the near entirety of the game is PvE doesn't mean that PvP can't be used for testing. A Fireball in PvP is the same Fireball in PvE. Most of the bugs I've noticed have been in the PvE environment. I just do as much testing as I can in PvP because it actually gives much more feedback than PvE.

[MrCow]

Just because the near entirety of the game is PvE doesn't mean that PvP can't be used for testing.

A true statement, that I can not deny. I will likely subject my tests to gnolls, kobolds, flesh renders, and the like because I am guaranteed to find them and have grown used to it, that and it doesn't require a second person's time. But if you can find someone willing to play guinea pig then by all means, it is much easier on the SP and, depending on the test, time.


you don;t need to ever sunder...I find it not worth it you could always use a destruction weapon for the crazy insane Ac monster

If you can fit sunder into a hotbar or keyboard button then there is no problem with it. Also, hitting something with a destruction weapon and swapping out takes more time than it does to just hit sunder and then whatever else you plan to use. My personal preference has always been to click sunder, trip, and then stunning blow if all three are up (and I don't need trip for crowd control). Besides, sundering something will likely benefit someone in the party.

[Staedtler]

If you can fit sunder into a hotbar or keyboard button then there is no problem with it. Also, hitting something with a destruction weapon and swapping out takes more time than it does to just hit sunder and then whatever else you plan to use. My personal preference has always been to click sunder, trip, and then stunning blow if all three are up (and I don't need trip for crowd control). Besides, sundering something will likely benefit someone in the party.

Well that was a misquote.

And Sunder is a wonderful debuff that can be done for free. It also works on red names and undead.