WF 3some Input

[aiastelmon]

Myself and 2 friends have rolled a WF party consisting of:

-Intimitank Fighter (me)
-2HF Barbarian
-Wizard

We are currently 2nd level getting ready to ding into 3, and are not twinking at all. We are pretty basic builds all around. We are trying to figure out how to gain some flexibility in terms of healing each other and using wands/items. As a party we want some way to use all the divine wands we will get throughout the game, and we would like one of the melee'rs to be able to use arcane wands if possible. We have considered splashing a level of ranger into the barbarian to gain divine wand use (for buffing and just to top off with divine healing wands) and a level of Wizard into my fighter so I can buff with arcane wands and do some wand repairing too.

Questions:

1. Do you think the Ranger splash will gimp the Barb's melee damage output much?

2. Will the level of Ranger give the Barb full access to all divine wands? I am not clear on how this works.

3. I REALLY do not want to give up a level of fighter for the level of Wizard, how important and useful is it to have a 2nd character who can use arcane wands or items? Maybe I should be splashing a level of Ranger or even Cleric instead. Paladin is not possible because my fighter is neutral.

Any other general thoughts or tips that could help us? We're not going to reroll, and we aren't absolutley min-maxers, but I don't want to die like a fool either!

Thanks for any help!

-Beorn

[nbhs275]

Myself and 2 friends have rolled a WF party consisting of:

-Intimitank Fighter (me)
-2HF Barbarian
-Wizard

We are currently 2nd level getting ready to ding into 3, and are not twinking at all. We are pretty basic builds all around. We are trying to figure out how to gain some flexibility in terms of healing each other and using wands/items. As a party we want some way to use all the divine wands we will get throughout the game, and we would like one of the melee'rs to be able to use arcane wands if possible. We have considered splashing a level of ranger into the barbarian to gain divine wand use (for buffing and just to top off with divine healing wands) and a level of Wizard into my fighter so I can buff with arcane wands and do some wand repairing too.

Questions:

1. Do you think the Ranger splash will gimp the Barb's melee damage output much?

2. Will the level of Ranger give the Barb full access to all divine wands? I am not clear on how this works.

3. I REALLY do not want to give up a level of fighter for the level of Wizard, how important and useful is it to have a 2nd character who can use arcane wands or items? Maybe I should be splashing a level of Ranger or even Cleric instead. Paladin is not possible because my fighter is neutral.

Any other general thoughts or tips that could help us? We're not going to reroll, and we aren't absolutley min-maxers, but I don't want to die like a fool either!

Thanks for any help!

-Beorn

Dipping out of pure barbarian does gimp damage at level 14. I would say a better bet would be a Wf wizzy, a WF battlebard, and a WF battlecleric. Can do all the things you want and is altogether stronger then your preconcieved party.

[Ghoste]

I'm curious as to which divine wands you think will really benefit this party. A lot of the more potent divine spells do not come in wand form.

There are a few spells you can get as scrolls, so umd to use them. To that end though, you would have been better off having one of those three take their first level as a bard or rogue and then max out their umd. From the sounds of it, multiclassing at the point you're at now won't achieve that effect very well.

[aiastelmon]

What we really want is the ability to use divine wands to top ourselves off when time isn't an issue, as well as to do buffing with. Also, I think we could use divine wands of lesser restoration (assuming there is such a thing) to handle that for our party.

No one wanted to make the needed investment into UMD and the class that it would take to get it. After all, why multiclass to a rogue for just UMD and making the investment of skill points, when you could multi to a Ranger and get automatic use of divine wands for free (as well as bow strength, good hit points, class enemy, not missing out on any BaB, etc?).

I appreciate the input, but I am not looking for "you should have done X", we only play a night a week, and don't want to play bards and clerics and such, and we are not trying to do the "perfect" thing, just looking for any input about a ranger or other splash in our current characters.

-B

[Slayer918]

1 level of ranger will get you wands of (at level*):
Cure Light Wounds (1)
Cure Moderate Wounds (3)
Cure Serious Wounds (5)
Resist Energy 10 pt.** (1, 3?)
Resist Energy 20 pt.** (7)
Resist Energy 30 pt. ** (11)
Protection from Energy** (what ever level the wand is)
Cat's Grace** (3)
Bear's Endurance** (3)
Owl's Wisdom** (3)
Neutralize Poison*** (7)
Remove Disease*** (7)

* You can use these wands up to your total character level with just 1 level of ranger
** Spells your wizard would be able to use off wands
*** Spells that have almost no effect on WF (I.E. remove poison is pointless if your immune to poison)

Ranger's do not get use of lesser restoration wands as it is not on their spell list (and WF are immune to most stat damage I believe)

1 level of cleric gets you use of:
Cure Light Wounds (1)
Cure Moderate Wounds (3)
Cure Serious Wounds (5)
Cure Critical Wounds (7 - only lootable, cannot be bought)
Resist Energy 10 pt. (1, 3?)
Resist Energy 20 pt. (7)
Resist Energy 30 pt. (11)
Protection from Energy (what ever level the wand is)
Bear's Endurance (3)
Bull's Strength (3)
Eagle's Splendor (3)
Owl's Wisdom (3)
Lesser Restoration (3)
Remove Blindness (5)
Remove Curse (5)
Remove Disease (5)
Searing Light (5)
Neutralize Poison (5)

There really isn't much point in splashing either ranger or cleric into your group unless you take others along with the three of you, If your concerned about needed someone else to wand-whip the party I would suggest 1-2 levels of wizard on the fighter (-1 bab -6-12 hitpoints) for basicly the same wand list but with repair wands instead of cure wands.

Hope this helps

[Arianrhod]

For topping off & buffing, arcane wands should be adequate (which the wizard already has access to) - can just keep the wiz supplied with appropriate repair wands, all the +4 stat spells, blur, elemental resists & protects (some of these are only available as drops, but can often be found on the auction house). On the other hand, if you have 28-point builds and no twinking, any "gimping" that might occur from splashing one level of divine caster on the tank or barb isn't going to make that much difference ;)

[aiastelmon]

Thanks for the comprehensive info Slayer, that's a great help, and it tells me that neither myself nor the barbarian should splash ranger, because we will not gain access to the full range of divine buff wands by doing so.

I do believe that WF are subject to stat reductions that require lesser restoration from reading a lot of other posts on the subject. But I cannot verify it by personal experience. But I suppose we can deal with this by using potions.

One of the reasons for getting one of the tanks able to use divine wands is just so we can make use of them, as we will run across them, and I hate to waste : )

Our wizard is already busy (and surly) enough without constantly asking him to buff us tanks, so I am happy if he just nukes and repairs. Plus I like buffing (I have played a cleric and support classes a lot in the past), and want my darn buffs!

So it seems my only choice would be to splash in cleric OR splash in wizard. I am not averse to doing either of these, though I do understand the previous posters concern over the usefulness of this approach. Thoughts? Which would be better, splashing a level of wizard to gain arcane wands including repair (and just selling all divine wands) vs. splashing in cleric to gain use of all those divine wands. I believe Slayer is recommending I do 1 level of Wizard and just trashing divine outright.

Thanks for the help guys!

-B

[Ghoste]

If you want lesser restoration, you need to go either pally or cleric. Being able to cast divine spells does not equal access via wand to all divine spells. It has to be on that classes ultimate spell list to get access via wands.

[Slayer918]

I would probably go the wizard route... it allows you to use wands that even the cleric level couldn't (expiditious retreat, blur, repair etc...) where as the unique cleric wands are also available on potions (disease, poison, blindness, lesser resto, are all available on potions)

[aiastelmon]

Thanks a ton Slayer, excellent input!

[geezee]

The good news is that level 2 is a great time to reroll. IMO at least 1 more caster would greatly improve your party.

[aiastelmon]

Well, I am dealing with a couple of unique personalities here, which I assume everyone has dealt with in the past. They're not bad players, just kind of set in their ways. So here is the new question I posit to the community:

-Assuming I am willing to reroll and solo a toon back up to level 3 or so, what is the best build to accentuate the capabilities of my two warforged brethren?

They are:

WF 2HF Barbarian (who has a little Leroy Jenkins in him)
WF Wizzy who does not want to buff the tanks, but will occasionally heal when we are on boss mobs and such

Ideally I would like my character to be able to:

1. Main tank / Aggro Holder / Intimadator (and handle all the monster CC responsibilities that implies)
2. Be able to wand buff and do some topping off post fights
3. Be able to backup heal (repair) in a pinch

And obviously be able to solo back up to level 3. But luckily these build goals would seem compatible with the solo'ing goal.

Or do I just say screw it, and build a WF Sorceror and bring the boom?

Any help appreciated!

Regards,

-Beorn

[MrCow]

Or do I just say screw it, and build a WF Sorceror and bring the boom?

*Nods frantically* :p

[Casta]

Never multi class a barb. crit rage 2 is a lvl 14 enhancement and one of the most powerful in the game. Multi class the fighter 2 or 3 pally if you want divine wands, it also has alot of other bonuses.

[aiastelmon]

I appreciate the previous input guys, and have an update!

Our party is now built as:

Me: Intimitank: 5 Fighter / 1 Wizard (with Bastard sword proficiency, CE, Adman-body and Power Attack, taking cleave next I think).
2HF Barbarian: 5 (almost 6)
Wizard: 6

We're doing pretty well by having my tank do all the top off healing with wands to save resources. I use my 150 spell points to cast summon monster 1, and that dog sure is useful to soak up nasty spells that would ordinarily be coming my way. I tanked the big Shantakor guy without too much issue, my AC is 29 now and gets up to about 37 with defense boost and CE up, and with 4/DR he does pretty well. Damage output is good with an acid/righteous bastard sword.

Against big mobs of mid level monsters (holy **** with the Vile Apothecary quest) our wizard hastes the two tanks and we run in and everything pretty much dies right quickly. The wizard will pick out enemy nukers to take out with magic missile and will occasionally drop a fireball situationally. He is a little frustrated because of the need to memorize some repair spells (especially when taking up a critical 3rd level slot). But I recently bought a bunch of repair serious wands, maybe alternating his +40% light or moderate repairs and Repair Serious wand casts will be sufficient healing.

I do all the buffing from wands (except haste).

We've just completed Shantakor and are ready to move on to some House D quests.

Some questions for the experts:

1. What can I do to get our groups saving throws pumped up for big fights? What wands should I be looking for?
2. What quests should we be looking around level 5-7 that will play to our strengths?
3. When will we start needing to enlist some help for tough quests, and which quests?
4. What's the best way to weaken the enemy bosses? Ray of enfeeblement? Spell slots are so tight for the wiz, we need to make them all count!
5. Any other character build advice for us moving forward?

Thanks in advance, we appreciate the communities input greatly!

-Beon

[Fartzalot]

Ray of enfeeblement comes as a wand, which your wizzy should be able to operate no sweat. It frees up a slot though the cast is slow, you only need it once per Boss. I forgot to mention as you guys move up in the world the wand will fail more often but then he should have more slots to use it directly.

[Dariun]

Once your wizard gets a few more levels and Wall of Fire he'll stop feeling frustrated and worrying about spell slots.

I think taking a wizard level on your fighter was a good idea.

On level 5-7 quests, you and the wizard should both be carrying around some lightning bolt and fireball wands. You can use them to draw aggro and do some good general damage to crowds and the wizard can use them when spell points are tight or to help finish off some monsters. I also like scorching ray wands. The wizard could use those to add some damage to high hitpoint monsters you are beating down but probably won't draw aggro away from you or the barbarian.

You can do the tangleroot and deleras series (although deleras will be much much easier if you wait til your wizard has wall of fire). Redwillow is a good lvl 6 quest that your group should have fun with.

Do as much of tangleroot on hard/elite as you can and you will be able to get House P favor which will give everyone in your group access to 30 minute elemental resist 20 buffs (as well as some others) that will prove very useful.

Your group should also be able to do Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk Isle explorer areas for some fun and XP.

Once you have some money to spend, check the auction house for wands. Be careful, because sometimes people post wands with only a few charges for full price, but if you look around you will also see good prices on wands (some of which cannot be bought -- like higher level Blur wands).

[aiastelmon]

Thanks for the input Dar, we have in fact just gotten our House P favor, and those elemental resist 20's are fantastic. It's just what we have been missing in terms of defense against spellcasting enemies.

We're now level 8, and have hit our stride. You were absolutely right about the wizard, now he doesn't even need to memorize his higher level repair spells, since I have access to cure critical and other wands, and since we have better defense he doesn't often need to heal mid-fight. When he does, it's not a life or death twitch-fest because our resists (and my ever-improving DR and 100% fortification) keep the damage to a managable level. No more going from full to 20% life in a few seconds. Oh, and Stoneskin has been a revelation, especially as regards keeping the barbarian out of trouble.

We can do pretty much any quest our level on normal or hard with ease, and it's lots of fun!

-B