The Lawnmower Man

[Impaqt]

Build Named For requester who wants a Dual Weiling Kopesh User... Flying Dual Blades of death equated to Mowing the lawn? I'll buy it, and its a cool name for the build anyway :)
Dual Kopesh Weilding "Lawnmower Man" Build.

Build Highights:
STR Based Two-Weapon Fighting designed for Dual Kopesh Useage.
Evasion
Solid Saves accross the board


I went with Elf for the Dex Boost. This gives us a the aility to get to a 19 Dex Pretty easily if Superior TWF does require that elusive 19 on a STR based build. By starting at 17 we can eat a +2 Tome, or worst case scenario a +1 Tome and Take a Point of Dex at l16 to get it to 19.

Hit points are solid, Saves are very good while raging with Buffs. Self buffed To hit is solid and with a few buffs comparable with many finesse builds. The build also gives us a Solid enough UMD for RR Items and Weapons.


Level 14 True Neutral Elf Male
(8 Fighter / 4 Barbarian / 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 234
20 Heroic Durability
48 L4 Barbarian
12 L2 Rogue
80 L8 Fighter
16 TOughness
30 TOughness ENH
70 CON Bonus
----
276 Hit Points
30 Greater False Life
28 Rage Boost
----
334 Hit Points Raged


BAB: 13/13/18/23

13 BAB
10 30 STR
2 Weapon FOcus and Greater Weapon Focus
3 AVerage Weapon Bonus
---
28
-2 TWF
-2 Heavy Off Hand
---
+24 First Swing Unbuffed
2 Rage STR Boost
4 Greater Heroism
1 Haste
1 Rage Potion
---
+32 First Swing W/ +6 Confirm Crit Via Enh w/ Average Buffs
+2 Flanking Bonus Via Enhancments as well.


Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 10
Will: 6
4/1/1 L4 Barb
6/2/2 L8 Fighter
0/3/0 L2 Rogue
5/7/3 Attribute Modifiers
4/4/4 Resist Item
------
19/17/10
4/4/4 Greater Heroism
0/0/4 Rage w/ Enhancments
0/4/0 Uncanny Dodge
2/2/2 Recitation
------
25/27/20
+5 Elf Enchantment resistance (Which are pretty much all Will Saves)

Efective 20+ On all Saves with the right Combination of Boosts and Buffs.


Armor Class:
10 BASE
10 +5 Mithral Breastplate
7 Dex Bonus W/ FAM II
3 Bark Pot
3 Protection pot
4 Sheild Clicky Or wand
----
37 AC Self Buffed 40+ is pretty easy
DR9/- Via Boost as well.

(32 Point)
{30/35}Strength........17 +3 Levels +2 Fighter +6 Item +2 Favor Tome
{24}Dexterity............17 +1 Rogue +6 Item
{20/25}Constitution...12 +1 Tome +1 Barb +6 Item
{10}Intelligence........10
{16}Wisdom.............11 +1 TOme +4 Item
{12}Charisma...........8 +4 Item

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2


Skills
{24}Balance
4 Ranks +7 DEX +13 Item as Needed

{23}Jump
13 Ranks +10 STR

{37+}Open Lock
10 Ranks +7Dex +7 Tools +13 Item

{20}Spot
4 Ranks +3 WIS +13 Item
Swim
I put some ranks here just because.. Might put more ranks in Spot instead

{24}Tumble
4 Ranks +7Dex +13 Item as Needed
Nice to have a good Tumble for high Jump

{21+}Use Magic Device
17 Ranks +1CHR +3 Cartouse =21 +4GH =25
Purely for RR Items, Maybe an Emergency Raise Dead.

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 5 (Barbarian)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will

Level 7 (Barbarian)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Fighter)

Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Reesistance II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance III
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

Hardy and Power Rage can be dropped w/+6 Items freeing up 4 Action Points

[maddmatt70]

You will not get superior weapon specialization when/if that comes out with only 8 levels of fighter. I would go with a boring human 14 level barbarian (starting stats 18 str 17 dex 11 con or maybe 17 str, 17 dex, 14 con with feats exotic weapon prof khopesh, twf,itwf,gtwf, power attack, impcrit slash) or if you are going to multiclass with evasion I would have a 2 level rogue with 12 fighter so that you could get superior weapon specialization some day (different build then barbarian with alot of feats, nice umd, etc.)..

[Impaqt]

WHy would anyone care about Superior Two Weapon Specilization? I've never even seen anyone speculate on that... ANother +1 or 2 to Damage? for a Feat? Waste if a feat if you ask me... I probobly wouldnt even recomend Greater Specilization on this build at L20.

Your dual Weilding Kopeshes.... The damage is already significant with wasting feats on Boosting damage.

[rpasell]

WHy would anyone care about Superior Two Weapon Specilization? I've never even seen anyone speculate on that... ANother +1 or 2 to Damage? for a Feat? Waste if a feat if you ask me... I probobly wouldnt even recomend Greater Specilization on this build at L20.

Your dual Weilding Kopeshes.... The damage is already significant with wasting feats on Boosting damage.

I believe he means Superior TWF not specialization.


+ to damage, + to hit/attck, more attacks/round. Speculation as it's a made up DDO feat, but it would be in keeping with the chain.

[Impaqt]

I believe he means Superior TWF not specialization.


+ to damage, + to hit/attck, more attacks/round. Speculation as it's a made up DDO feat, but it would be in keeping with the chain.

This build WILL Qualify for what people believe Superior Two-Weapon Fighting will be.......

Specilizaion only adds Damage. Focus Adds To Hit and does neither offer More attaks. Saying a build is questionable because you might not be able to take a completly made up Speculation of a non-existang feat is just plain bizaar.

[maddmatt70]

Umm see fighter threads. If you are a dps fighter build greater weapon specialization is a must especially for a dual wielder as gws is added to each weapon's attacks so it really becomes a +4 damage for each round of attacks and when you get a crit with one khopesh is +6. Superior weapon specialization would be an extra 2 points of weapon damage to each hand's attacks. Damage adds up is the point. Look at the market for a +4 flaming burst of pure good khopesh vs. a +5 flaming burst of pure good or stats 30 vs. 32 strength, etc..

It stands to reason that if they are adding superior two weapon and superior two handed fighting they would add superior weapon focus and weapon specialization.

[Impaqt]

Umm see fighter threads. If you are a dps fighter build greater weapon specialization is a must especially for a dual wielder as gws is added to each weapon's attacks so it really becomes a +4 damage for each round of attacks and when you get a crit with one khopesh is +6. Superior weapon specialization would be an extra 2 points of weapon damage to each hand's attacks. Damage adds up is the point. Look at the market for a +4 flaming burst of pure good khopesh vs. a +5 flaming burst of pure good or stats 30 vs. 32 strength, etc..

It stands to reason that if they are adding superior two weapon and superior two handed fighting they would add superior weapon focus and weapon specialization.

This is a Theme Build..... The Barabarian Levels build in a +2 To Hit AND Damage while raged.

Greater Specilization WILL be available to the build later int he game, and then the barb levels will basically allow him to Match having Superior Weapon Focus and Specilization. WIthout Spending another feat.

[maddmatt70]

Length of rage? Having never played a barbarian how many rages does this barbarian get and how long will the rages last?

[Mad_Bombardier]

Length of rage? Having never played a barbarian how many rages does this barbarian get and how long will the rages last?Rage lasts for (3+CON modifier) * 6 seconds.

[Impaqt]

3 Rages, 11*6 =66 Seconds +20%ENh =80 Seconds.

SO the rages arent plentiful like a Full barbarian, but very useable for boss fights.

[maddmatt70]

i like the 10% speed aspect of the barb, but when cap reaches 16 seems to me this guy would want to reroll something more like a 1 barb 13 fighter 2 rogue or something like that if they want the barbarian's speed. I guess my major complaint of your build is its ability to last in the game beyond level 14. pure barbarian or a more heavy fighter build is more advantages in the future and argueable in the present..

[Impaqt]

i like the 10% speed aspect of the barb, but when cap reaches 16 seems to me this guy would want to reroll something more like a 1 barb 13 fighter 2 rogue or something like that if they want the barbarian's speed. I guess my major complaint of your build is its ability to last in the game beyond level 14. pure barbarian or a more heavy fighter build is more advantages in the future and argueable in the present..

Actually, there no reason why this build cant go F14/barb4/Rogue2 at End Game. Which Opens up EVERY fighter enhancment and feat currently available in the game.

ANything else is SPeculation. We have gotten ZERO hints as to what L15+ will bring for Fighters asside from Superior TWF and Superior THF. WHich this build most likely will qualify for.

If/When More Enhancments/Feats come out for Fighters, THEN, and ONLY then can we truely evaluate a build such as this for L15+ FIghter.

Currently, there is no argument on the fighter side that this build doesnt compensate for taking the build criteria into the equation. THe requstor made no mention of Power attack, SPring Attack, CE or any other "Fighter" feats that this build lacks.

[EinarMal]

I probably would have picked Fighter 8/Pally 4/Rogue 2, you get divine favor for +2 to hit/dmg with about ~140 spell points to keep it up 14 minutes between shrines. You also of course get about +8 to all saves and immunities. I just don't see the Barb benefits outweighing those personally.

[maddmatt70]

wait. It doesn't have power attack. I did not catch that.. power attack = must have... especially in this world of the bard...

Well if you are dead set on this build go 2 rogue, 12 fighter now and by the time this build is levelled up hopefully the cap will have gone to 16 or be close to going up to 16 at which point the person can take 2 levels of barbarian and work there way onto this 4 barbarian 14 fighter 2 rogue build... although by the time that happens monk will be out so then you will proposing a whole different build... lol

[maddmatt70]

I probably would have picked Fighter 8/Pally 4/Rogue 2, you get divine favor for +2 to hit/dmg with about ~140 spell points to keep it up 14 minutes between shrines. You also of course get about +8 to all saves and immunities. I just don't see the Barb benefits outweighing those personally.


Yeah not a bad build fighter 8/pally 4/rogue 2.. no arguments here although more defensive in nature..

[EinarMal]

Yeah not a bad build fighter 8/pally 4/rogue 2.. no arguments here although more defensive in nature..

Yeah if you go elf like I did you also get constant displacement with dragonmarks and extend. Makes it very durable.

To me the rage duration and numbers you are getting from Barb would not appeal to me given how few times you could use them. Running fast is nice though!

[Impaqt]

I probably would have picked Fighter 8/Pally 4/Rogue 2, you get divine favor for +2 to hit/dmg with about ~140 spell points to keep it up 14 minutes between shrines. You also of course get about +8 to all saves and immunities. I just don't see the Barb benefits outweighing those personally.

WOW, thats pretty impressive, Please Detail that Out....

lemme help....

Divine Favor +1 to Hit and damage at Level 4 WHoops
14 CHR(With a +6 item) means you can get a Total of +4 to Saves 2via AUra and 2 From CHR

Base saves for L4 Barb vs. L6 Paly are the same... SO net is a little better Fort and Reflex... Which are Both FIne already... Will save ends up the same.

140 Spell Points Not Quite

2 L4 Paly SPell Points (Shou;d be 5, but theres currently a abug)
26 L4 Paly with 14 WIsdom
----

28

Thats 2 Minutes of Divine Favor.

We then Lose 6 Points of COnstitution (5 Rage +1 Barb Enh) potential, 10% Speed Increase, Uncanny Dodge...... The list goes on...

[Impaqt]

wait. It doesn't have power attack. I did not catch that.. power attack = must have... especially in this world of the bard...

Well if you are dead set on this build go 2 rogue, 12 fighter now and by the time this build is levelled up hopefully the cap will have gone to 16 or be close to going up to 16 at which point the person can take 2 levels of barbarian and work there way onto this 4 barbarian 14 fighter 2 rogue build... although by the time that happens monk will be out so then you will proposing a whole different build... lol

Matt, Please read the Original Thread before Commenting any more....
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=127284
Your not making a lot of sense....

[EinarMal]

WOW, thats pretty impressive, Please Detail that Out....

lemme help....

Divine Favor +1 to Hit and damage at Level 4 WHoops
(Yeah you are right on this one....need to get level 6)

14 CHR(With a +6 item) means you can get a Total of +4 to Saves 2via AUra and 2 From CHR

Base saves for L4 Barb vs. L6 Paly are the same... SO net is a little better Fort and Reflex... Which are Both FIne already... Will save ends up the same.
(Divine Favor w/ 20 Charisma and +2 Aura = +7 to all saves not sure where you got the starting 8 cha)

140 Spell Points Not Quite

2 L4 Paly SPell Points (Shou;d be 5, but theres currently a abug)
26 L4 Paly with 14 WIsdom
+100 magi
----

128 (off by a little)

Thats 2 (12) Minutes of Divine Favor.

We then Lose 6 Points of COnstitution (5 Rage +1 Barb Enh) potential, 10% Speed Increase, Uncanny Dodge...... The list goes on... (For a couple of minutes per shrine?)



Errr touchy touchy today corrected it for you!

[Impaqt]

Errr touchy touchy today corrected it for you!

Not touchy, your still just not making sense...

You want this guy to wear a PoP or weild a Magi Weapon all the time? THats just not realisitic. There no way you can get to a 20 CHR on this build without making significant sacrifices onteh Base Stats.. Please, Show the build.... WHere are the extra 6 Points of CHR coming From? Dex? Opps, there gos half your reflex save boost and TWF Chain, STR? Theres goes +3 to Hit and Damage.. CON? Cant even do that.. Wisdom? Int?

I have no issue with people critiqueing builds I present when the Critique is based on fact rather than speculation and Completely made up numbers.

[EinarMal]

I never make up numbers (though occasionaly make mistakes like everyone ;))

Elf Male Lawful Good Fighter 8/Pally 4/Rogue 2

Stats:
Str 16 (28 =16 +3 Levels +1 Tome +2 Enh. +6 Item)
Dex 17 (26 =17 +3 Enh. +6 Item)
Con 12 (20 =12 +2 Tome +6 Item)
Int 12 (12
Wis 8 (14 =8 +6 Item)
Cha 12 (20 =12 +1 Tome +1 Enh. +6 Item)

Skills:
UMD
Jump
Balance

Feats:
1-Toughness
3-Least Mark of Shadow
6-Lesser Mark of Shadow
7-(FB) TWF
8-(FB) ITWF
9-Extend
10-(FB) IC Piercing
12-(FB) Weapon Focus Piercing
12-GTWF
14-(FB) Weapon Spec Piercing

Enhancements:
Fighter Toughness III (6)
Fighter Critical Accuracy III (6)
Fighter Strength II (6)
Fighter Haste Boost II (3)
Elf Extra Dragon Mark IV (10)
Elf Dex II (6)
Elf Melee Attack II (6)
Elf Melee Damage II (6)
Rogue Dex I (2)
Paladin Charisma I (2)
Paladin Aura of Good Armor (1)
Paladin Aura of Good Saves (1)
Paladin Energy of the Templar (1)

HP:
132(Levels) +20(Heroic) +10(Draconic) +70(Con) +30(GFL) +16(Helm) +16(Tough) +30(Tough Enh) =324

SP:
5(4 Pally) +100(Item) +26(Wis) +20(EOT I)=151

Base:10/6/3
Attributes: 5/8/2
Resistance: 5/5/5
Greater Hero: 4/4/4
Pally Aura: 2/2/2
Divine Grace: 5/5/5
Total:31/30/21

To Hit:
BAB 13
Str 9
Divine Favor 1
Weapon Focus 1
Greater Hero 4
Racial Elf 2
Weapon 5
TWF -2
To-Hit:+33

Damage:
Strength 9
Weapon 5
Racial Elf 2
Weapon Spec 2
Divine Favor 1
Damage:19/14

Equipment wish list(does include POP X)
Head: Tapestry Helm (Orchard Turn In)
Neck: Wis +6
Eyes: Mentau Goggles (Litany of Dead Seeker +4)
Trinket:Pearl of Power X
Cloak: Cha +6/Grtr Resist Cloaks
Chest: KDS (Dragon Loot)
Waist: Con +6
Wrist: Str +6
Gloves: Dex +6/Seven Fingered Gloves (Titan)
Boots: Boots of Innocent (Temple of Vol)
Rings: Protection +5/GFL
Weapons:Rapiers

[maddmatt70]

Shakes head, guy wants everything in the sun.. He probably needs to re-evaluate his expectations. I still stand by what I said about power attack especially as a two hander or two weapon wielder it just makes so much sense. 4 levels of barbarian the more and more I think about it is tough to swallow. I like 1 level of barbarian, all levels of barbarion or 14 barb 2 fighter or 2 rogue for when cap goes up (you probably will not get sup twf at 16 level with the rogue build so unsure if user would want). I run on occasion with speedball, who is one heck of a multi-class barbarian, on khyber. I don't know how he does it exactly but his build is a halfling 3 rogue 11 barbarian. He can do rogue stuff, his saves are great and he can out dps virtually anybody out there. In order to pull off a two weapon khopesh style with 2 levels of rogue you would have to go with human in order to get all of the feats, but what would your saves be like if you did?

Yeah the pally mix build is fine but it will do less dps because you will not get some enhancements, feats gws, fighter str 3, and more attribute points will be put into charisma, etc..

The more I think about it the more I become intrigued by the 2 rogue 14 barbarian halfling build with the new cap.. it could work very well just would not get sup twf at 15..

[Impaqt]

Um.. Thats a a fine build.. but Nothing like the requestor wanted..... Your "+8 or so" to saves is nowhere to be found (Even if you subtract one from my saves because I threw Recitation intere vs. your+5 Resistance Item)

Toughness Feats are just 16 Hit Points.

[EinarMal]

Yeah the pally mix build is fine but it will do less dps because you will not get some enhancements, feats gws, fighter str 3, and more attribute points will be put into charisma, etc..



Well I had the thing planned out to 20 which will end up with Fighter 12/Pally 6/Rogue 2. So that is why some of my numbers were off. So you do get greater weapons spec(eventually) and +2 Divine Favor (eventually). I also have power attack and superior two weapon fighting later on as well. You can only fit so much into 14 levels!

At least at one point it was stated that strenght etc... from enhancements would cap at +3 so I would get that as well and be equal to the fighter on that count. With the +2 from Divine Favor (eventually) making up the difference for the rest (mostly)

[EinarMal]

Um.. Thats a a fine build.. but Nothing like the requestor wanted..... Your "+8 or so" to saves is nowhere to be found (Even if you subtract one from my saves because I threw Recitation intere vs. your+5 Resistance Item)

Toughness Feats are just 16 Hit Points.

****, had originally planned to level 20 will edit.... sorry for the toughness mistake.

Well my original suggestion was the 8/4/2 split only, however, you requested my build which I said is somewhat like it and it is. I mean it is a TWF build with dual main hand weapons, your build has the DPS edge, but mine has more defense. I just think it is a shame to go elf without working in constant displacement when really TWF builds need more defense not offense in my opinion. Alternatives are always good to think about regardless!

As far as the +8 goes I was talking about the pally benefit not to your build in particular, it is actually +7 because I took out the +2 tome that I had assumed that I would get by level 20 for pretty much every stat.

Your build:24/26/19 (Took out recitation added +5 resistance)
Mine:31/30/21
Difference:7/4/2

The +4 reflex is nice though considering the evasion factor. I also have a bit more room to grow with tomes and another +1 to charisma enhancement.

[Impaqt]

****, had originally planned to level 20 will edit.... sorry.

Well my original suggestion was the 8/4/2 split only, however, you requested my build which I said is somewhat like it and it is. I mean it is a TWF build with dual main hand weapons, your build has the DPS edge, but mine has more defense. I just think it is a shame to go elf without working in constant displacement when really TWF builds need more defense not offense in my opinion. Alternatives are always good to think about regardless!

As far as the +8 goes I was talking about the pally benefit not to your build in particular, it is actually +7 because I took out the +2 tome that I had assumed that I would get by level 20 for pretty much every stat.

Your build:24/26/19 (Took out recitation added +5 resistance)
Mine:31/30/21
Difference:7/4/2

The +4 reflex is nice though considering the evasion factor. I also have a bit more room to grow with tomes and another +1 to charisma enhancement.

No, I requested a Build that Matched the Original Requestors Request. (Somehow, that makes sense...) If Evasion was the focus of the build rather than Dual Weilding Kopeshes, I might of designed a build like yours.

[EinarMal]

No, I requested a Build that Matched the Original Requestors Request. (Somehow, that makes sense...) If Evasion was the focus of the build rather than Dual Weilding Kopeshes, I might of designed a build like yours.

The only difference is the khopesh feat, so in theory if I drop extend I can qualify! You still get 6 displacements lasting 14*6 = 84 seconds for a grand total of 504 seconds or about 8.5 minutes.

So you could do the same thing just swap piercing for slashing and extend for khopesh it really doesn't matter that much to the build.

Ok now I am in! Most lawnmower man do not run that fast anyway when they mow!

[maddmatt70]

Do we have to fill out these whole builds out because my bet is on the 12th level barbarian 2nd level rogue halfling with stats and feats like the following.

16 str
17 dex
10 wis
14 con
8 char
8 int

exotic weapon proficiency khopesh
two weapon fighting
improved two weapon fighting
power attack
Improved crit slashing

(At level 15 greater two weapon fighting
At level 18 superior two weapon fighting)

Saves because of halfling are: +1 and with the 3 halfling luck save chains an additional +3 = +4. You have great natural fort saves as a barbarian. You can take barbarian will power to improve your will saves by 3 when raging and halfling can get a +2 racial bonus to dex so your reflex saves get a bump...

This is definitely the build I would go with if I wanted dps with great saves einar's kind of build race tbd if I was more interested in saves then dps..

[EinarMal]

Do we have to fill out these whole builds out because my bet is on the 12th level barbarian 2nd level rogue halfling with stats and feats like the following.

16 str
17 dex
10 wis
14 con
8 char
8 int

exotic weapon proficiency khopesh
two weapon fighting
improved two weapon fighting
power attack
Improved crit slashing

(At level 15 greater two weapon fighting
At level 18 superior two weapon fighting)

Saves because of halfling are: +1 and with the 3 halfling luck save chains an additional +3 = +4. You have great natural fort saves as a barbarian. You can take barbarian will power to improve your will saves by 3 when raging and halfling can get a +2 racial bonus to dex so your reflex saves get a bump...

This is definitely the build I would go with if I wanted dps with great saves einar's build if I was more interested in saves then dps..

Barbarian is definitely great for best DPS. I like to have some kind of defense other than hit points! It really depends on the person at that point on what you value more. Don't think there is a right or wrong answer on that one.

Impaqt you did leave out my pally immunities which does save a lot of gear slots and allows for things like the POP X.

[Impaqt]

Do we have to fill out these whole builds out because my bet is on the 12th level barbarian 2nd level rogue halfling with stats and feats like the following.

16 str
17 dex
10 wis
14 con
8 char
8 int

exotic weapon proficiency khopesh
two weapon fighting
improved two weapon fighting
power attack
Improved crit slashing

(At level 15 greater two weapon fighting
At level 18 superior two weapon fighting)

Saves because of halfling are: +1 and with the 3 halfling luck save chains an additional +3 = +4. You have great natural fort saves as a barbarian. You can take barbarian will power to improve your will saves by 3 when raging and halfling can get a +2 racial bonus to dex so your reflex saves get a bump...

This is definitely the build I would go with if I wanted dps with great saves einar's kind of build race tbd if I was more interested in saves then dps..


Elves get the same racial Bnbus to dex and have the same Dex Enh.

Yes, You have to design the whole build if you want to make your point.

[Impaqt]

Impaqt you did leave out my pally immunities which does save a lot of gear slots and allows for things like the POP X.

Is there a Proof Against Poison Trinket of Disease Immunity?

[EinarMal]

Is there a Proof Against Poison Trinket of Disease Immunity?

No but it lets you move other things around...and since good goggles outside of the new seeker ones are hard to come by I am essentially replacing something like bloodstone for the goggles and POP X in the trinket slot. I don't think I am missing anything major in my gear list by putting the PopX in but let me know if I skipped something important.

It still makes a difference never having to worry about swapping something out for fear/disease/poison immunity. You pointed out the difficulty of fitting in the POP item and I was just pointing out that being a paladin helps somewhat in this regard.

[maddmatt70]

Barbarian is definitely great for best DPS. I like to have some kind of defense other than hit points! It really depends on the person at that point on what you value more.

Well the poster said he was not interested in umd and he was maybe interested in a few levels of pally to upgrade his saves and immunites so self healing does not sound like a priority. He does not want to be a tank (?) but to do dps which could mean several things lol.. We have argued in other forums about hp absorbtion, ac, and other forms of defense ex displacement. It is a fact that you can get away with a crappy ac, high number of hp, and no self displacement (nothing wrong with arcanes and bards casting it on you; in fact, I would argue that a quality bard and or arcane is willing to cast that spell often) if you have a high dps. It is also a fact that if you have low hp you can't get away with it in every dungeon in the game whereas you can with a low ac (barbs have dr) with the only exception in old times being invaders elite..

[EinarMal]

Well the poster said he was not interested in umd and he was maybe interested in a few levels of pally to upgrade his saves and immunites so self healing does not sound like a priority. He does not want to be a tank (?) but to do dps which could mean several things lol.. We have argued in other forums about hp absorbtion, ac, and other forms of defense ex displacement. It is a fact that you can get away with a crappy ac, high number of hp, and no self displacement (nothing wrong with arcanes and bards casting it on you; in fact, I would argue that a quality bard and or arcane is willing to cast that spell often) if you have a high dps. It is also a fact that if you have low hp you can't get away with it in every dungeon in the game whereas you can with a low ac (barbs have dr) with the only exception in old times being invaders elite..

Yeah I was actually just posting my own build, as it was somewhat simliar minus the khopesh, how can you not be interested in UMD :eek: As far as the build I posted with ~320 hit points and constant displacement, evasion, very good saves I can't really see any situation where the Barbarian would be more survivable to be honest, especially with wand and potion access.

As far as depending on others for displacement healing etc... that is just not my playstyle. If I can't cast it myself or find an item for it, then I don't count on it, and it has been my experience generally that most arcanes are not really that worried about keeping you displaced. If you group with people who like to buff others that is great, but personally I HATE when people beg for buffs and heals especially outside of combat. I think it is annoying so don't want to be forced to do the same thing.

You say you can get away with no AC and high hit points with the caveat that you have someone in your party willing to support you. I would rather not need that to be honest.

[Impaqt]

Theres always places to poke holes in builds if ya look had enough.... No Striding Item, Your CHR Cloack Shares your Greater Resists Slot so Every time you need a resist your giving up +3 to all your Saves...

With a Good Fort Save You rarely even notice that your Diseased, Fear immunity is nice, but a Reaver Ring or Helm of Freewil in those situations can take care of that.

These Forums provide a place for Everyone to Post their Character builds and Idea..... It just get frustrating when every time someone posts a build, the thread immediately turns into "THis build Sucks, Mine is Better" kinda thing. Instead of Taking whats presented and maybe tweaking it, people decide, Usually without understadning the inital Concept at all, that its rubbish and needs to be completely redesigned in their own image and concept of whats perfect.


especially with wand and potion access.
.

Pretty sure Everyone has access to the same Potions......

[Wizzly_Bear]

I never make up numbers (though occasionaly make mistakes like everyone ;))

Elf Male Lawful Good Fighter 8/Pally 4/Rogue 2

Stats:
Str 16 (28 =16 +3 Levels +1 Tome +2 Enh. +6 Item)
Dex 17 (26 =17 +3 Enh. +6 Item)
Con 12 (20 =12 +2 Tome +6 Item)
Int 12 (12
Wis 8 (14 =8 +6 Item)
Cha 12 (20 =12 +1 Tome +1 Enh. +6 Item)


Feats:
1-Toughness
3-Least Mark of Shadow
6-Lesser Mark of Shadow
7-(FB) TWF
8-(FB) ITWF
9-Extend
10-(FB) IC Piercing
12-(FB) Weapon Focus Piercing
12-GTWF
14-(FB) Weapon Spec Piercing

Elf Extra Dragon Mark IV (10)
Elf Melee Attack II (6)
Elf Melee Damage II (6)

SP:
5(4 Pally) +100(Item) +26(Wis) +20(EOT I)=151

Weapons:Rapiers

why lg if you have umd? extend? are you kidding? iirc, khopeshs are slashing not piercing, and elf attack doesnt work on khopeshes. and id rather see a kardin's eye in that trinket slot than a pop.

overall, the build looks pretty good, but it appears to fail to meet the request.


It is a fact that you can get away with a crappy ac, high number of hp, and no self displacement (nothing wrong with arcanes and bards casting it on you; in fact, I would argue that a quality bard and or arcane is willing to cast that spell often)

when i play my arcanes i nearly always have displacement on. i keep it for myself, but if i instinctively try to heal someone (first character was a cleric) who keeps taking a lot of damage and realize i dont have a cure spell, i cast displ on them.

[Impaqt]

why lg if you have umd? extend? are you kidding? iirc, khopeshs are slashing not piercing, and elf attack doesnt work on khopeshes. and id rather see a kardin's eye in that trinket slot than a pop.

overall, the build looks pretty good, but it appears to fail to meet the request.
.

If you want Pally Levels in the build your Required ot be LG.

He already said to take Slashing instead of Piercing if ya wanna use Kopeshes....

[maddmatt70]

Yes, You have to design the whole build if you want to make your point.

Impaqt, why do you torture me so.. fine..

Race Halfling
12th level barbarian 2th level rogue

Stats:
Str: 16 + 3 (4,8,12) + 6 + 1 Rage: +4 (power 4) + base rage
Dex: 17 + 5 + 2 (1750 favor tome) = 24
Int: 8
Wis 10 +6 = 16
Con: 14 +6 +1 + 1 = 22 + base rage
Chr: 8

Saves:
W= base + 3 + 3 + 1 + 4 = 11 + base. when raging +8 to that total. so 19 + base
R= base + 7 + 3 + 1 + 4 = 15 + base.
F= base + 6 + 1 +4 = 11 + base when raging add x..
Enhancements:
Barb Crit rage 1. 2
Barb power rage 1 1
Barb power rage 2 2
Barb power rage 3 3
Barb power rage 4 4
Barb willpower 1 1
Barb willpower 2 2
Barb willpower 3 3
Barb sprint boost 1 1
Barb sprint boost 2 2
Barb sprint boost 3 3
Barb sprint boost 4 4
Barb con 1 2
Barb power attack 1
Barb power attack 2
Barb extend rage 1 1
Barb extend rage 2 2
Barb extend rage 3 3
Halfling luck will 1 1
Halfling luck will 2 2
Halfling luck will 3 3
Halfling luck reflex 1 1
Halfling luck reflex 2 2
Halfling luck reflex 3 3

Feats:
1st Level: exotic prof khopesh
3rd Level: two weapon fighting
6th Level: power attack
9th Level: improved two weapon fighting
12th level: Improved critical slashing

Suggested gear: mith breast +5, dex gloves +5, strength bracers +6, cloak of resist +4, con necklace +6, wisdom ring +6, bloodstone or mentau goggles, madstone boots, etc. etc.. Really whatever works that races stats, saves, and dps..
+5 flaming burst knopesh of pure good dual wields or something similiar...

Before the experienced barbs tear this apart I am inexperienced at barbarians and impaqt made me do this.. lol (for instance dr reduction enhancements are nice but I dont have any, is hardy rage 4 a must, power attack 3 etc..)

[Impaqt]

Yeah.. Thats just a Really Gimped Barb ;)

[maddmatt70]

Shakes fist at impaqt. Why I outa.. The op should probably just ask speedball for recommendations (name on forums is Tulsadoom) if they are interested in this sort of build. I would say a 12 barb 2 rogue because the op does not care about rogue skills and because you can get crit rage at 16th level aka 14 barb 2 rogue... Speedball is probably playing right now while I am trying to answer impaqt's musings... Cursing at work..

[EinarMal]

why lg if you have umd? extend? are you kidding? iirc, khopeshs are slashing not piercing, and elf attack doesnt work on khopeshes. and id rather see a kardin's eye in that trinket slot than a pop.

overall, the build looks pretty good, but it appears to fail to meet the request.



It helps to be lawful good for the paladin part.....switch out extend for khopesh if that is what you want.... Extend is very useful as it applies to the displacement dragon marks so no I wasn't kidding ;) Personally if I am going elf I am using a rapier and I would not bother with khopesh but that was the original request so it could easily be modified for that.

[EinarMal]

These Forums provide a place for Everyone to Post their Character builds and Idea..... It just get frustrating when every time someone posts a build, the thread immediately turns into "THis build Sucks, Mine is Better" kinda thing. Instead of Taking whats presented and maybe tweaking it, people decide, Usually without understadning the inital Concept at all, that its rubbish and needs to be completely redesigned in their own image and concept of whats perfect.

Pretty sure Everyone has access to the same Potions......

Fair enough, although I still say my build is just a variation of what you posted (essentially replacing the Barbarian levels with Paladin) and making use of the elven dragon marks.

The potion comment was just that I could use both, not that you could not use potions hehe...

For your build I would take the dragon marks over iron will and greater weapon focus. Even if you stayed with 4 levels of Barbarian I would still take the dragon marks over those two feats. Even without extend you can be near constantly (8.5 minutes) displaced which will add some defense to the build on top of DR and make you less dependent on a pocket cleric.