Personal Choice aka Freedom(rantish/soapbox)

[Dogchair]

What makes me sad, is the amount of people who use blacklisting for inane reasons. I've spent a year playing builds i wanted for fun. Now, I read the forums alot, see what others build, see why they work, and then adjust/adopt what I like out of them to suit/fit my playing style.

My latest is a version of the grundle pantie thief, i call the panty snatcher. But not out loud.

Anywho, Its a non healing the party except inbetween fights, and only with wands cleric.
I host PUGs and I solo. PUGs is where things make me sad. People send you incredibly dumb tells for having an LFM explaining you need to bring your own heals, no whining, and its a zerg run.

Isnt not saying stuff like that the reasons battleclerics have a bad rep? In my runs i carry more than my weight. 1st or second in the kills, but more importantly, not taking much dmg, and therefore absorbing dmg my party might take if the critter wasnt dead or ****ed at me. I use what buffs i can to help the low ac 2handers out (poor guys), I drop the clw or cure mod on a squishy if I see they are gonna die if i don't.

My main is a healbot type cleric. Support, support, support. Its a fun way to get to know a quest, to see what not to do as a front line guy. i watch. I assimilate. Then I try to duplicate and extrapolate from what I see works. As a cleric i am unselfish.

As my new toon, I serve me first, when i dont run the pug i announce that i am a tank, and if thats an issue, ill drop. That should be mature enough to warrant civility.

But really, actually talking about blacklisting a guy cuz he wants you to buck up, keep up, and be self-sufficient.

Its late and I'm annoyed. I thought i would share and see if what I think/feel is out of line, or over the edge.

-Dogchair

[Aspenor]

Sorry to hear you've met some resistance while playing your spin of my boy Nick's Grunndle. His builds are often innovative and hard for others to comprehend. Just play with skill, and prove yourself via your actions.

[JelloMold]

So far I've never seen this garbage on Ghallanda. I wouldn't sweat it. This guy probably has a blacklist for everyone who does not do what he wants. Before long he won't have anyone he can group with.

Hey Mr. Blacklist, if you can read this, put me on it too. You won't like me either.

EDIT: I enjoy running with different builds etc. If you see any of my toons on, I'd love to join you.

[Aspenor]

I'll also point out that as the party leader, you decide what type of party you want. If he is going to complain about your self sufficiency requirement, you don't want to play with him anyway.

[Daerius of the Blessed Blades]

I agree with Jello/Marge - I am a HUGE fan of running quests with non-traditional groups. Many may consider me crazy (especially those who already know me), but I seem to have better luck with the stranger party makeups (for example, I ran Deleras a few weeks back with a 4 rogue, one caster, one ranger build group and we did amazingly well).
The old standard "Two tanks, two casters, one cleric, one rogue" makeups lack creativity, in my opinion...

However, when you have non-traditional groups, it requires smarter players. Or players you know, like an all guild group. If you are trapped with the "play my way or I'll blacklist you" crowd, it's probably not gonna work. Probably wouldn't have been much fun even with a "traditional" (yawn) group.

Now I'll be actively looking to group with your character - I wanna see a real tanking cleric in action!

[Cupcake]

What makes me sad, is the amount of people who use blacklisting for inane reasons. I've spent a year playing builds i wanted for fun. Now, I read the forums alot, see what others build, see why they work, and then adjust/adopt what I like out of them to suit/fit my playing style.

My latest is a version of the grundle pantie thief, i call the panty snatcher. But not out loud.

Anywho, Its a non healing the party except inbetween fights, and only with wands cleric.
I host PUGs and I solo. PUGs is where things make me sad. People send you incredibly dumb tells for having an LFM explaining you need to bring your own heals, no whining, and its a zerg run.

Isnt not saying stuff like that the reasons battleclerics have a bad rep? In my runs i carry more than my weight. 1st or second in the kills, but more importantly, not taking much dmg, and therefore absorbing dmg my party might take if the critter wasnt dead or ****ed at me. I use what buffs i can to help the low ac 2handers out (poor guys), I drop the clw or cure mod on a squishy if I see they are gonna die if i don't.

My main is a healbot type cleric. Support, support, support. Its a fun way to get to know a quest, to see what not to do as a front line guy. i watch. I assimilate. Then I try to duplicate and extrapolate from what I see works. As a cleric i am unselfish.

As my new toon, I serve me first, when i dont run the pug i announce that i am a tank, and if thats an issue, ill drop. That should be mature enough to warrant civility.

But really, actually talking about blacklisting a guy cuz he wants you to buck up, keep up, and be self-sufficient.

Its late and I'm annoyed. I thought i would share and see if what I think/feel is out of line, or over the edge.

-Dogchair


Catchair! Hi there!

I will party with you anytime. :D

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

I am too new to post here...
nevermind.

[Aspenor]

I am too new to post here...
nevermind.

I call shenanigans (http://www.fearthegooberzilla.com/shenanigans.JPG)

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

But my main is only level 2!!!
Honest!
:(
and i needed to fix my earlier stoopid post...

[Cupcake]

But my main is only level 2!!!
Honest!
:(
and i needed to fix my earlier stoopid post...

LOL.

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

/pout
/takes her sorry level 2 rogue arse back to WW....

[Twerpp]

You are ticked off because people don't want to run with a cleric who straight up told them not to expect heals bring your own oh and by the way we are zerging? You might as well add that you are going to Dip the mobs onto them while you fight so you take as little damage as possible oh and btw yall should probably get a healbot you need one on this quest!

Anyway play how you want if it works for you theres a lot of crazy builds out there that do work, all Im saying is you shouldnt be scratching your head wondering why people (especially people who don't know you) dont want to run with a non-healing cleric.

[Cupcake]

/pout
/takes her sorry level 2 rogue arse back to WW....

Aww Yvonne, if i were at home, I'd come find you and take you through.

[Samadhi]

I'll also point out that as the party leader, you decide what type of party you want. If he is going to complain about your self sufficiency requirement, you don't want to play with him anyway.

/agreed 100% - you are doing everything proper by announcing, if he is complaining about that, he probably isn't self-sufficient enough to bother with anyhow.

and yes, I think that is like the third time i've agreed with Asp 100% today, maybe I should go back to work.

[Aspenor]

/agreed 100% - you are doing everything proper by announcing, if he is complaining about that, he probably isn't self-sufficient enough to bother with anyhow.

and yes, I think that is like the third time i've agreed with Asp 100% today, maybe I should go back to work.

I think if people stopped and thought about it, they'd find that they agree with me 100% more often ;)

[Jefechao]

Why is he looking to join a PUG anyway if hes so critical, tell him to make some friends and have one of them be a cleric, Shouldnt he have his own healbot enforcement if its so important to him? Lately I hate people.

Big shout to all the people I ran with yesterday that were cool with the cleric in training I had with me. I love taking brand new guys to the game and teaching them, but being straight healer aint as easy as it sounds, and when I got him he was about to scrap the cleric for something he wouldnt get yelled at for playing. So good looking out and being supportive, by the last run I think he was doing pretty good.

[hannika]

You are ticked off because people don't want to run with a cleric who straight up told them not to expect heals bring your own oh and by the way we are zerging?

personally i get kinda annoyed running prettymuch ANY quest, especially low-mid level ones, with a group dependent on a cleric. no one needs to be a designated healer, if someon is a full on cleric and that's their toon cool, makes things run more smoothly a lot of the time, but getting into leveling pugs with ppl that can't take care of themselves drives me insane. but i'm a zerger by nature, i want to run everything as quickly and efficently as possible and i can't do that if i'm not self sufficient so i build and play characters that can be.

[Missing_Minds]

Yey, you announced it up front. I dislike zerging a lot, but I wouldn't black list you. I've ran with clerics who did NOT say so up front, and I've kicked them like a bad habit. Oh they made claims about how great and grand they were, that they actually were healing... But when the ranger is wand wipping and keeping the party alive, (and I don't mean topped off after fights, I mean 1/2 hits away from death/incapp) they have nothing at all to stand on. (and my kill count was still greater than theirs.)

Personally, I see nothing wrong with how you run. You are open about how your play style is on that character and I can respect that. It pretty much is how a lot of people (do they still do this?) look at rangers only for barkskin. Sorry, don't have a lot of spell points and these are mine to keep me self sufficient so you don't have to worry about me.

And a lot of quests, esp at low level, you really don't even need a cleric. It is nice, but not necessary.

[Furgulder]

I blacklist everyone.

:)

[Gratch]

Yeah, I blacklisted myself for a while. Probably cuz I get thoughts like the one below:



Hmmm... so can I go make high ac dwarf battle cleric that zergs, rounds up mobs and then once he gets back to the party, zaps out a 40 diplomacy hit?

Ach... right next to the new player to the game 28 hp wizzy. Make sure at these low levels you convinced the PUG to run it all on elite.

Think I'll call him... AspenGratch... or DogGratch... maybe GratchCake.

[Oreg]

The dynamics have changed alot since beta and release though. My beta and main character from release through the first few months was a cleric and not only did the groups expect me to be the sole source of healing, but it was my expectation as well. I used to apologize that I was out of spell points when the fighter had 1/2 health between fights.

Nowadays, I play mostly fighters and my new sorc and I carry no less than 100 cure serious pots on each , every conceivable type of potion to relieve SP pressure off the cleric and let him do his non-healing thing. In PUGs I tell them straight up - don't heal me between fights - just during and only if it looks like I need it. I expect to be self sufficient as do the guildies I run with and quite honestly most of the experienced players I meet in PUGs.

Self Sufficiency in the experienced player ranks is pretty amazing when you look at the origins of our playstyle with DDO. Running high level quests on elite with no clerics doesn't even phase us anymore.

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

You are ticked off because people don't want to run with a cleric who straight up told them not to expect heals bring your own oh and by the way we are zerging?
*snip*

I think the quote was "No babies who need their mommies"...
I almost joined.
No.
I was only level 2 then.
It was only up for a minute!
Ah eess levul fower nowa.

[Dogchair]

I think the quote was "No babies who need their mommies"...
I almost joined.
No.
I was only level 2 then.
It was only up for a minute!
Ah eess levul fower nowa.

You saw that? Nice. I'm pretty sure that was immediately after another "you're not a healing cleric!" episode.

-Dogchair

[SaberMonkey]

I will run with you anytime Dogchair. I have my Battle Bard at lvl 5 and Battle Cleric at lvl 7, you know where to find me. :) Oh and did this happen when you and I were talking last night? I saw your LFM, was gonna join but I was busy. Sorry about not looking you up to do that trade before I logged but had to be up early.

[Laprion]

i would have join you with my wf wiz but i'm lvling up with someone else so i can't really out lvl them atm

-Fergal

[Mortakai]

I grouped with u a couple days ago doing a TR run saw your LFM and understood it compleatly (BTW i was the wf Irongore). I dont see why you should be getting rants for haveing that posted the group we had did really well only a couple deaths but no wipe. If those who do not want to bring their own heals for it then they shouldn't bother sending you tells complaining about it. if they aint up to supplieng their own heals join a group that doesnt have that posted on their LFM!!

[Mortakai]

You are ticked off because people don't want to run with a cleric who straight up told them not to expect heals bring your own oh and by the way we are zerging? You might as well add that you are going to Dip the mobs onto them while you fight so you take as little damage as possible oh and btw yall should probably get a healbot you need one on this quest!

Anyway play how you want if it works for you theres a lot of crazy builds out there that do work, all Im saying is you shouldnt be scratching your head wondering why people (especially people who don't know you) dont want to run with a non-healing cleric.

Well Twerpp when i saw Dogchair's LFM i didnt know him it was a quest i knew and wanted to do since i ran it with all my non wf toons, and being a wf pally seems to be an issue for groups still so i tend to solo ALOT. and for your info Dog did really well he didnt drag mobs to the group to keep him safe in fact he was one of the three charging head first into the mobs mostly to try keeping up with me and the other wf who was a wiz fighter on the kills :P

[Cowdenicus]

personally i get kinda annoyed running prettymuch ANY quest, especially low-mid level ones, with a group dependent on a cleric. no one needs to be a designated healer, if someon is a full on cleric and that's their toon cool, makes things run more smoothly a lot of the time, but getting into leveling pugs with ppl that can't take care of themselves drives me insane. but i'm a zerger by nature, i want to run everything as quickly and efficently as possible and i can't do that if i'm not self sufficient so i build and play characters that can be.

If anybody needs a cleric it is....

/walks away laughing maniacally.

[Cowdenicus]

Let me know, I will show all these "battle clerics" the ways of divine fury.

OOOOOOOOOO Mr. I am a melee only battle cleric.

Well my "True Cleric, can melee, destruct, CC, and heal and look phenomenal doing it."

Bards sing about me, Barbarians wish they had my DPS, Rangers wish they had my finesse, Sorcerors stand in awe of my uber casting abilities and speed, wizards are shell shocked by my spell selection, Fighters are flabbergasted at my feats, and Paladins wish they had my saves. :eek: :D

That is all. ;)

[Furgulder]

Can I have your babies Vanash?


/swoon

[Cupcake]

Vanash is MINE! i tell you Mine!

I ran with a mid level battle cleric the other day. He was WF. He did a wonderful job in quest, healing etc. I would run with him again.

As for groups needing a cleric. pfft.

We ran SC last night. I was on my level FOUR pally, we had another pally, 2 rogues a caster and a tank.

We had a few minor mishaps but not many.

[Cowdenicus]

No need to fight. :eek: :D

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

I was arogue!

And I sucked!

lol.
poor baby Sheillea!

Got lots of masterworks and an end reward I cant use for three levels...lol

so I am set~!
:D

[Dogchair]

well dawg is 6th level 5 cleric and 1 fighter. Doing well.

Dmg output is slowing due to lack of good weps, but im still not taking dmg very much, which lets me grind through stuff. I might have to rebuild though, true neutral might have been a dumb idea.

i put some rr dwarf +4 adamantine armour on him, so lets see if that ups the ante a bit.

Dogchair

[Cupcake]

I was arogue!

And I sucked!

lol.
poor baby Sheillea!

Got lots of masterworks and an end reward I cant use for three levels...lol

so I am set~!
:D

You did great!

Was a pleasure to run with you. Now I understand the laughing LOL. I TRIED to keep ya alive. :D

[Cupcake]

well dawg is 6th level 5 cleric and 1 fighter. Doing well.

Dmg output is slowing due to lack of good weps, but im still not taking dmg very much, which lets me grind through stuff. I might have to rebuild though, true neutral might have been a dumb idea.

i put some rr dwarf +4 adamantine armour on him, so lets see if that ups the ante a bit.

Dogchair

My lvl 12 human pally got her name reported, so I rerolled her. She is now lvl 7 4 pally/3 fighter halfling . Much happier with her now. A giuldmate lent me some +4 mithral FP and with a +4 mithral heavy steel at lvl 7 with barkskin on I can get her ac up to 42. 38 without. Not too bad.

[Furgulder]

what name got reported?

[birminghampiper]

all my characters are self reliant, if the cleric heals me then even better, but I do not rely on a cleric and I dig battle clerics they rock I just wish I could build an effective one


What makes me sad, is the amount of people who use blacklisting for inane reasons. I've spent a year playing builds i wanted for fun. Now, I read the forums alot, see what others build, see why they work, and then adjust/adopt what I like out of them to suit/fit my playing style.

My latest is a version of the grundle pantie thief, i call the panty snatcher. But not out loud.

Anywho, Its a non healing the party except inbetween fights, and only with wands cleric.
I host PUGs and I solo. PUGs is where things make me sad. People send you incredibly dumb tells for having an LFM explaining you need to bring your own heals, no whining, and its a zerg run.

Isnt not saying stuff like that the reasons battleclerics have a bad rep? In my runs i carry more than my weight. 1st or second in the kills, but more importantly, not taking much dmg, and therefore absorbing dmg my party might take if the critter wasnt dead or ****ed at me. I use what buffs i can to help the low ac 2handers out (poor guys), I drop the clw or cure mod on a squishy if I see they are gonna die if i don't.

My main is a healbot type cleric. Support, support, support. Its a fun way to get to know a quest, to see what not to do as a front line guy. i watch. I assimilate. Then I try to duplicate and extrapolate from what I see works. As a cleric i am unselfish.

As my new toon, I serve me first, when i dont run the pug i announce that i am a tank, and if thats an issue, ill drop. That should be mature enough to warrant civility.

But really, actually talking about blacklisting a guy cuz he wants you to buck up, keep up, and be self-sufficient.

Its late and I'm annoyed. I thought i would share and see if what I think/feel is out of line, or over the edge.

-Dogchair

[Tavvi]

I'm all about the crazy builds-- Most of my builds don't work anymore but its kept me active since pre-beta (5sorc/5cleric, or twoweapon Wizard with only 2 fighter, (my favorite; 28point dwarf rogue with starting 18strength/1fighter)). But here's some food for thought:

1)Most people who are leveling(not capped) want more xp then xp debt.
2)Some people aren't playing twinked builds(personal choice or not) and can't afford 100 Cure-pots.
3)There are still some new players in game. So Some builds might not be purposely all that Crazy-hehe.
4)Most people(including myself) claim their odd Builds are self supportive because they are killing machines(usually melee minded) out killing basic mini-max builds, which is usually true the first 8-10 level dungeon are so. Killing Machines are only one kind of Crazy builds, easy to do in those early levels. Don't even go to what a sorceror/wiz can do at level 14 over most melees...

5)And Most PLAYERS want to feel like they contributed -- Nothing irritates me more then a toon who solos the quest, leaving the group behind because someone fell or got lost or needs to shrine or has died.

6) Please add

Its hard to play crazy builds or crazy group makeups (good game play compensates but not everyone is on equal level here); its challenging and can be fun(like I said its kept me active). Those who make the crazy killing machines in the early level can usually run rampant right up to the 10th level quests. But should be as understanding about a crazy build who can't quite do it that way:

For instance, I made a healing Pure-Rogue (Halfling with full dragonmark and wand whipper) for my perma. No way is this a solo character and needs support (and hopefully will support the rest too).

Try making a sorceror who focuses on Frost spells or Acid spells over magic/missle and Firewall. Nothing better then Naic-ing things to death in those first levels (or even later) but it becomes a lot harder when people are saying "you don't have Firewall?" "You don't have greater hero?" "you don't have disintegrate?"

What usually makes quests fun is people having a good time; crazy build or not, death or no death, loot or no loot. Even the most screwed up group can be a blast if everyone is laughing and generous with compliments and support. If you get moody(Which I do) then its time to turn the game off (sorry turbine)... OR time to try a new build and solo a bit-- hmmm A bard with equal stats starting with charisma....

Rant off

[llevenbaxx]

People are still making characters that are 100% dependant on a clr spamming cures on them to be "affective":rolleyes:

This in itself is not all that surprising to me. What is surprising is how fast a group will turn on a BC(most misinterpretted term in the game imo) becasue one player cant seem to not get the living **** kicked out of himself in every fight. When Im out killing this individual 3:1 and am not even in the lead, I will try to explain better tactics to them before I completely write them off(cut them off;)). I build my own version of a BC kinda. Im not a main tank, I do support the party, I fight, I cure(have all avilable enhancements) and I buff. The only thing I dont do is spam cures(end fights I do case by case). If a party member needs cure spamming, they tend to die... alot. Most parties can easily hack this style of play and some even seem to prefer it on Ghallanda.

When there is not harmony in the group though, the cleric is still the first one everbody still looks at to change. Pretty annoying, only has happened twice in 10 levels though, so cant complain too much.:)