Trap the Soul: Let's make it work before it gets through the dev pipeline

[totmacher]

* NEW - Trap the Soul
o Conjuration (Summoning)
o Level: Sor/Wiz 8
o Forces a creature's life force and its material body into a gem on a failed Will save. Although this essentially 'kills' the target, it is not a death effect and functions on creatures such as undead (but not most constructs). This spell requires a khyber dragonshard as a special material component, and can affect creatures of up to 30 hit dice.

* (Note: The quality of the gem required varies on the hit dice of the targeted creature. Three versions of this spell exist using a spell selector, appropriate for creatures of up to 10 HD, 20 HD, and 30 HD.)

I really like the idea for this spell but seriously devs, a Dragonshard? Do you really think these grow on trees? Please seriously consider revising this spell for its usefulness before it gets into Mod 6. The only known replenishable source of Dragonshards is either random drops, which I would say happen way too infrequently or the 150 Argonessen favor reward (which happens once per toon).

I know it's not even out yet but I don't see many people casting this spell at all in its current form. I have around 10 Siberys Dragonshards and would never consider casting this spell once. I would rather burn through 10 Major Mnemonics than waste a Siberys Dragonshard, which is honestly what we're talking about. What monsters do you know in a level 14 quest with only 10 HD? or just 20?

Instead of a Khyber Dragonshard, what about gems like it is in PnP? Why not make these have a use instead of vendor trash? If its hard to code an algorithm to determine what the max gem value is in an inventory as a check to the HD value x 1000 GP, why not just make it:

10 HD - 4x 500 GP, 2x 1000 GP, 1x 5000 GP gem (the , denotes a logical OR)
20 HD - 8x 500 GP, 4x 1000 GP, 2x 5000 GP gem
30 HD - 16x 500 GP, 8x 1000 GP, 3x 5000 GP gem

I think this version would make it preferable to its current state. This would also enhance the economy by making gems useful (put them in stacks of a 100 on the auction house anyone?) and give them a 2nd dimension... something else than a piece of vendor trash.

[jjflanigan]

A Khyber Dragonshard is not the same thing as a Siberys Dragonshard. Hence the different names :)

[totmacher]

Yes, but I'm assuming that the three levels, 10, 20 and 30 HD are broken into the following:

Flawed - 10 HD
Imperfect - 20 HD
Siberys - 30 HD

Unless of course they're implementing Khyber Dragonshards.

And besides, wouldn't it be awesome if there was a use for gems other than to take them out and put them back in gem bags.

[MysticTheurge]

Unless of course they're implementing Khyber Dragonshards.


Forces a creature's life force and its material body into a gem on a failed Will save. Although this essentially 'kills' the target, it is not a death effect and functions on creatures such as undead (but not most constructs). This spell requires a khyber dragonshard as a special material component, and can affect creatures of up to 30 hit dice.

Uh...

[jjflanigan]

Yes, but I'm assuming that the three levels, 10, 20 and 30 HD are broken into the following:

Flawed - 10 HD
Imperfect - 20 HD
Siberys - 30 HD

Unless of course they're implementing Khyber Dragonshards.

And besides, wouldn't it be awesome if there was a use for gems other than to take them out and put them back in gem bags.

Oh, I fully agree that it would be nice to have a use for the standard loot gems, however, I would imagine that the shards used by this spell will be a buyable component (more expensive than standard of course, like the dust for stoneskin is a special component). It would be really cool if you could collect certain gems to use it, but then you make the ability to cast a spell dependent on getting the loot yourself or buying it from another player. I doubt they'd make it so that only certain people would be able to cast the spell (i.e. a non-shop buyable reagent)

[totmacher]

Right, ok... I didn't realise at first they were two different things. But what's wrong with implementing the spell as it exists in the SRD? I mean what did they give us gem bags for anyways?

And from what I'm seeing on this Eberron wiki:

Siberys dragonshards

Siberys shards fall from the Ring of Siberys that encircles Eberron. They are usually found in equatorial regions such as Xen'drik. They contain a pulsating swirl of golden veins. Siberys shards are the rarest type of dragonshard, and the type most closely associated with the dragonmarked houses. Because of their scarcity and importance to powerful groups, a new find of Siberys shards is often the focus of intrigue or theft. They are sometimes called sunstones or starmotes, or simply dragonshards, because of their association with the dragonmarked houses.

Khyber dragonshards

Khyber shards are found beneath the earth near layers of magma or sulfur vents, typically growing on volcanic cavern walls. They are found throughout Eberron but are particularly common in areas known for fiendish activity, such as the Demon Wastes. Khyber shards have a smoky appearance, with writhing midnight blue to oily black veins running through them. They are sometimes known as nightshards or demonstones.

I'm guessing they'll be a droppable component. It just would stink if they dropped at the same rates.

[MysticTheurge]

Right, ok... I didn't realise at first they were two different things. But what's wrong with implementing the spell as it exists in the SRD? I mean what did they give us gem bags for anyways?

Using Khyber Shards in binding magic is a pretty standard part of Eberron.

[DSL]

Also, is this going to be a consumed component, or more like a focus? In the PnP version of the spell, it's technically a focus, but can only contain 1 "soul", and is normally shattered to release the trapped creature, essentially meaning that the gem is not re-useable. However, given that presumably we will not have any option to compel service from the affected creature, allowing it to be re-used is not an unreasonable thing.

[nbhs275]

Right, ok... I didn't realise at first they were two different things. But what's wrong with implementing the spell as it exists in the SRD? I mean what did they give us gem bags for anyways?

And from what I'm seeing on this Eberron wiki:

Siberys dragonshards

Siberys shards fall from the Ring of Siberys that encircles Eberron. They are usually found in equatorial regions such as Xen'drik. They contain a pulsating swirl of golden veins. Siberys shards are the rarest type of dragonshard, and the type most closely associated with the dragonmarked houses. Because of their scarcity and importance to powerful groups, a new find of Siberys shards is often the focus of intrigue or theft. They are sometimes called sunstones or starmotes, or simply dragonshards, because of their association with the dragonmarked houses.

Khyber dragonshards

Khyber shards are found beneath the earth near layers of magma or sulfur vents, typically growing on volcanic cavern walls. They are found throughout Eberron but are particularly common in areas known for fiendish activity, such as the Demon Wastes. Khyber shards have a smoky appearance, with writhing midnight blue to oily black veins running through them. They are sometimes known as nightshards or demonstones.

I'm guessing they'll be a droppable component. It just would stink if they dropped at the same rates.

And this weeks "making a mountain out of an anthill" award goes to totmacher!

Seriously, its a component, which they will sell, just like every other component they sell. The really thing someone should whine about is the HD caps, as the first two wont be effective in most(read any) level 14+ quest on elite.

[aurus33]

I dont know, but I feel that this spell will be key for some interesting crafting in later modules...

[llevenbaxx]

I kinda like the idea of odd components for spells. Gives the game a more D&D feel to casting. I know a more MMO friendly system of casting needed to implimented in DDO, better than slots per day at least but with the large number of spell points and the ability to recall for mana, casting has pretty much turned into a ZZZAP fest.

Spells that were ultra powerful, steeped in mystic and brought out once in a bluemoon are basically like using MM or sleep(in PnP) now. I like that casters might have to give a little thought about unleashing some of the more powerful higher end spells. High end magic is not supposed to be taken lightly;) If they are trying to add a little depth and thought to casting, I would applaud them for it.

[MysticTheurge]

I kinda like the idea of odd components for spells. Gives the game a more D&D feel to casting.

My favorite answer to this is Metamagic Components (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/metamagicComponents.htm).

[totmacher]

Yeah, it would be pretty cool if they turned collectables or gems into Metamagic components. Had them drop in the collectable places or off monsters. Or had them drop randomly from chests.